35 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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| 35. |
Re: No subject |
Apr 10, 2008, 12:18 |
Prez |
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Chris Taylor is back on my good guy list... for now. Actions speak louder than words, and regardless of his unfortunate recent comments, this action is to be applauded.
As far as piracy goes, I have got to agree with Brad Wardell on the subject. Still, I can understand the fits it must give developers to see their title has been downloaded 20k+ times on P2P networks.
This comment was edited on Apr 10, 12:18. |
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| 34. |
Re: No subject |
Apr 8, 2008, 14:00 |
Jerykk |
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Since you don't have the hard facts, thats why I asked for empirical evidence which - at the very least - would give an insight as to wtf you're going on about because thus far, you have provided neither fact nor empirical evidence to backup the ludicrousness of your submissions.
Okay. Hang out at Best Buy, Wal-Mart, Gamestop, Target, Staples, Circuit City or any other store that sells PC games. Now, if you see somebody buying or browsing PC games, go up and ask them if they know what SecuROM or SafeDisc are. Empirical evidence based upon my observations of the masses suggests that at least 97% of the subjects won't know what those are and if you look at the back of any of the PC game boxes, you will see that there is no indication of what protection scheme the game uses. For some reason you don't think this is the case so please provide empirical (or even scientific) evidence to support your reasoning.
Please go hit the text books because the examples you give above are so far off field, that it clearly shows how your brain works: you're just throwing stuff out without having a clue as to what exactly you're actually talking about.
Please do explain why negatives can't be proven since my examples were evidently not applicable. To my understanding, if you can prove a positive, you must be able to prove a negative because you can't have one without the other. Something is either true or it isn't. If you can state something as fact, that automatically establishes a whole bunch of negatives as fact. If I'm human, that means I'm not a cat, a dog, a car, a bus, a mongoose or a duck-billed platypus. Now, you can argue that a negative can't be proved due to our limited scope of observation. Right now, I can prove that dogs can't fly but what if, one day, a dog actually can fly? Then it would no longer be fact. However, this applies to all facts, not just negative ones. A fact is only a fact until proven otherwise.
This comment was edited on Apr 8, 14:16. |
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| 33. |
Re: No subject |
Apr 8, 2008, 13:11 |
dsmart |
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Empirical evidence? You realize that empirical evidence doesn't actually require fact, right? Empirical evidence isn't established through the scientific method. It's established through observation and experience and based on what I've observed and experienced,
You're either kidding me or you're taking the piss. Of course I know what it means. Since you don't have the hard facts, thats why I asked for empirical evidence which - at the very least - would give an insight as to wtf you're going on about because thus far, you have provided neither fact nor empirical evidence to backup the ludicrousness of your submissions.
*sheesh*
And I can't prove a negative? Sure I can. For example, right now I don't have any nuclear weapons in my house. I can prove that. Dogs can't fly. I can prove that too. Eating spinach doesn't turn you into The Hulk. I can prove that too.
uhm no, you can't prove a negative. Please go hit the text books because the examples you give above are so far off field, that it clearly shows how your brain works: you're just throwing stuff out without having a clue as to what exactly you're actually talking about.
This comment was edited on Apr 8, 13:13. |
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Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living. If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead
...but don't be surprised if we don't uphold them |
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| 32. |
Re: No subject |
Apr 8, 2008, 12:57 |
Jerykk |
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Without the empirical evidence to back up those claims, thats just a load of horse shit. For one, you can't prove a negative. So, good luck with that.
Empirical evidence? You realize that empirical evidence doesn't actually require fact, right? Empirical evidence isn't established through the scientific method. It's established through observation and experience and based on what I've observed and experienced, the majority of consumers out there don't know what SecuROM, SafeDisc, Starforce, DRM, are. Is this a fact? Who knows. I don't have the means to test it scientifically, just like nobody has a scientific way to determine the exact correlation between piracy and profits. Based on empirical evidence, we can make assumptions but that's all they are.
And I can't prove a negative? Sure I can. For example, right now I don't have any nuclear weapons in my house. I can prove that. Dogs can't fly. I can prove that too. Eating spinach doesn't turn you into The Hulk. I can prove that too.
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| 31. |
Re: No subject |
Apr 8, 2008, 09:07 |
dsmart |
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No, games with protection schemes continue selling because the majority of consumers don't know what a protection scheme is and games make no mention of it on the boxes. By the time they find out that the protection doesn't like their particular DVD drive or encounter some other protection-induced problem, it's too late. They can't return it and their sale goes into the records.
One could also note that PC game sales have decreased as protection schemes have grown increasingly overzealous. Coincidence?
Without the empirical evidence to back up those claims, thats just a load of horse shit. For one, you can't prove a negative. So, good luck with that.
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Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living. If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead
...but don't be surprised if we don't uphold them |
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| 30. |
It's fairly accurate about Steam |
Apr 7, 2008, 23:45 |
Creston |
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You CAN play Steam games offline, but have to save your Steam credentials on your system, and it's by no means an easy process to get it to work. (Yes, it's right click and enable offline mode, but there's plenty of people for whom that gives a problem.)
In Stardock, you download the game, it installs, that's the end of Stardock's involvement. Play it without internet as much as you like.
Stardock's system >>>>>>>>> Steam.
Having said that, what's Impulse? Never heard of it. An extension to Stardock?
Not so sure about Demigod. I loved Supcom, but Forged Alliance is EXTREMELY buggy, and there's no patch to be found anywhere for all these issues. If developer refuses to patch older games, then no sale for me on the new games.
Creston
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| 29. |
Re: No subject |
Apr 7, 2008, 23:11 |
Ibbz |
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NPD to Track Online Game Subscriptions
"After retail sales of PC software accounted for a mere 14% of the overall games industry in 2007, an NPD representative claimed that, based on total play time, the PC market wasn't shrinking, but simply shifting towards digital distribution and game subscriptions. However, the firm was unable to further quantify those statements as it did not track such details at the time."
http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/51259
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| 28. |
Re: No subject |
Apr 7, 2008, 22:27 |
Jerykk |
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hahahah, what an idiot. I totally called the use of NPD to back your ridiculously inaccurate figures of "PC game sales have decreased".
Called? I thought you were specifically requesting NPD sales figures but I guess that was sarcasm. Since nobody wants to release their digital distribution sales, there's not much data we can go aside from sources like the NPD.
Ironically, that link you posted lacks even more credibility than the NPD. Whereas the NPD is a recognized source of retail statistics, the guy tossing out the numbers in your article is some guy from Intel. I'd be interested to know where he got those numbers from.
Since the NPD is unreliable and we have no other way of accurately tracking PC game sales, I guess there's no way to determine whether or not sales are down. One can only assume such given that publishers and developers are abandoning it left and right.
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| 27. |
Re: No subject |
Apr 7, 2008, 21:38 |
elefunk |
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One could also note that bees are the reason for the ice caps to be melting. Doesn't make it true.
I'd say that decreasing sales and customers pissed off with DRM is a much more logical correlation than bees and melting icecaps. It's not necessarily true but then it's also not necessarily true that piracy is responsible for the decline of PC game sales, which is my whole point.
Similarly, you can note that PC game sales have decreased - an equally dubious and wholly unsubstantial claim.
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6185089.html?tag=result;title;4
hahahah, what an idiot. I totally called the use of NPD to back your ridiculously inaccurate figures of "PC game sales have decreased". How about not using a source that has been discredited many times due to their lack of considering digital distribution, and that NPD themselves have said is nothing to worry about because of digital distribution.
http://www.developmag.com/news/29331/The-PC-market-is-not-dying-says-newly-formed-PC-Gaming-Alliance
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| 26. |
No subject |
Apr 7, 2008, 21:12 |
manic half |
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ok well, they just basically sold Demigod too me. thanks GPG!
This comment was edited on Apr 7, 21:12. |
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| 25. |
Re: No subject |
Apr 7, 2008, 21:03 |
Jerykk |
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One could also note that bees are the reason for the ice caps to be melting. Doesn't make it true.
I'd say that decreasing sales and customers pissed off with DRM is a much more logical correlation than bees and melting icecaps. It's not necessarily true but then it's also not necessarily true that piracy is responsible for the decline of PC game sales, which is my whole point.
Similarly, you can note that PC game sales have decreased - an equally dubious and wholly unsubstantial claim.
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6185089.html?tag=result;title;4
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| 24. |
Re: No subject |
Apr 7, 2008, 19:15 |
elefunk |
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One could also note that bees are the reason for the ice caps to be melting. Doesn't make it true. Similarly, you can note that PC game sales have decreased - an equally dubious and wholly unsubstantial claim.
*waits for NPD figures to counter my post*
This comment was edited on Apr 7, 19:16. |
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| 23. |
Re: No subject |
Apr 7, 2008, 19:13 |
Jerykk |
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If they weren't, nobody would be using them because games won't be selling.
No, games with protection schemes continue selling because the majority of consumers don't know what a protection scheme is and games make no mention of it on the boxes. By the time they find out that the protection doesn't like their particular DVD drive or encounter some other protection-induced problem, it's too late. They can't return it and their sale goes into the records.
One could also note that PC game sales have decreased as protection schemes have grown increasingly overzealous. Coincidence?
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| 22. |
Re: No subject |
Apr 7, 2008, 18:59 |
dsmart |
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"Remain"? For them to "remain" unobtrusive and transparent, they'd have to be unobtrusive and transparent to begin with.
Well they are. Which is why I said "remain". If they weren't, nobody would be using them because games won't be selling. Judging by the number of PC game sales - 99% of which have DRM in some form or another - I'd say that my commentary is accurate as was originally written. YMMV.
it really surprises me to see him adopting a system that has no DRM whatsoever. By the logic he spewed before, this game will be almost exclusively pirated. I hope more developers go this route.
I don't think he's "adopting" anything. As was indicated below, Stardock is the publisher for both the box and DD versions of the game. Kinda like with SINS but only this time, its exclusive to Impulse on the DD front.
Anyone who hasn't already put 2+2 together and figured out why Chris signed with Stardock - after already shipping through a major publisher - doesn't know how the industry is changing. RAPIDLY.
This comment was edited on Apr 7, 19:04. |
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Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living. If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead
...but don't be surprised if we don't uphold them |
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| 21. |
Wow |
Apr 7, 2008, 18:19 |
Parallax Abstraction |
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| After Chris Taylor basically came out and said that most PC gamers are just pirates and that it's our fault that PC gaming is supposedly dying (as opposed to games with ridiculous requirements and being completely inaccessible like say...Supreme Commander), it really surprises me to see him adopting a system that has no DRM whatsoever. By the logic he spewed before, this game will be almost exclusively pirated. I hope more developers go this route. |
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| 20. |
No subject |
Apr 7, 2008, 17:54 |
Shadowcat |
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Is anyone else sad that the game title turns out not to be Demigod on an Impulse? 
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| 18. |
Re: No subject |
Apr 7, 2008, 17:18 |
Jerykk |
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So, if those of you in favor of the [much flawed] argument that a pirated copy is one that the person wouldn't have bought anyway, want to look at it as it not having an impact, then all you have to do is compare the sales projections and actuals.
I don't think anyone honestly believes that a pirated copy never represents a lost sale. It's just that nobody (except suits) believes that a pirated copy always represents a lost sale either.
Comparing sales projections to actual sales doesn't resolve anything. While you can certainly assume that a game will sell more if it isn't pirated, in the end, that's all it is: an assumption. There is simply no scientific method to determine the impact of piracy on sales.
While I believe that the use of DRM is just a means to an end and in some cases is more trouble than its worth, when the PC gaming dust settles, most games will be delivered using [nigh uncrackable] methods like STEAM or better yet, an MMO style method whereby you need an auth key and access to the Internet.
Both Steam games and MMOs have been cracked. Any protection scheme will inevitably be cracked if the pirates care enough.
All we can hope for is that they various (Starforce, SecuROM, SafeDisc, Armadillo etc) methods remain unobstrusive and transparent to the user.
"Remain"? For them to "remain" unobtrusive and transparent, they'd have to be unobtrusive and transparent to begin with.
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| 17. |
Re: No subject |
Apr 7, 2008, 16:59 |
nin |
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I don't really see Demigod as a mainstream sort of game
Well, it was on the cover of Games for Windows a few months ago...but that's been my only exposure to it.
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http://ghosts.nin.com/ |
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RollinThundr Apr 17, 2013, 12:25: Eh really tossing stuff like that in there only to get your panties all bunched up. If you really want to call that trolling sure.
Mr. Tact Apr 17, 2013, 12:33: Pretty sure that's the definition of trolling... |
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| 16. |
Re: No subject |
Apr 7, 2008, 16:57 |
Bucky |
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I won't bother making any comments about the piracy issue other than to say that I agree with Stardock's position 100%. Brad Wardell has made the arguments better than I could, and he's done it several times. If that isn't enough, he's stepped up to the plate and proved it time and again with their games and with their other software (Windowblinds, etc).
Stardock stands behind everything they put out and treats their customers right. This is the first time I've heard of Demigod, and without knowing anything about the game (other than what's in this news post) I'll buy it--if for no other reason than Stardock has always treated me right.
On a related note, I was wondering when Impluse was gonna hit. It's actually shown in the Sins manual; I had figured it would get out the door sonner. |
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35 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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