26 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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| 26. |
Re: subscription |
Mar 27, 2008, 08:40 |
wtf_man |
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Re hours of contents per dollar these days, sure, games are shorter, but the amount of work required is also exponentially higher now.
Ok... and who's fault is that?
We're touching on a different topic now, but most of these developers are shitting out games that need a CRAY to run them.
Graphics, graphics graphics... and no substance.
Which USUALLY results in:
~A shitty game.
~A short game.
~A game that a majority of the market can't run.
Then they bitch about piracy, due to poor sales.
Then they use copy protection that has rootkits / black-lists legitimate apps / phones home, and they wonder why the more informed people that usually buy their games are now pirating (to get a "clean" copy... which is both ironic and sad, since pirated copies could have viruses embedded).
Games really don't need to have any more focus on eye candy. Graphics have been "good enough" for years now (Not including the 3dmark epeeners... and talking about the market as a whole, not just the gamer enthusiasts). Developers need to get back focused on gameplay, not the fricken graphics.
Let the asshats whine in forums that the "graphics suck" if a developer puts out something that was cutting edge graphics 3 years ago as a "max setting". Fuck 'em. If the game is good, it will sell. And that's what we all want (gamers and developers)... good games.
That's not saying "don't go forward" with graphics... It's saying keep the cutting edge stuff in-house and use it for the next game or sequel.
This comment was edited on Mar 27, 08:55. |
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| 25. |
Re: subscription |
Mar 27, 2008, 06:26 |
peteham |
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I fully agree with you about your right to have higher expectations for a subscription game. As far as a proper rate for Hellgate, we're probably talking -$20 That's the minimum amount flagship would have to pay me to make me touch it again. Per hour.
But in PRINCIPLE, I see nothing wrong with Flagship's subscription model. I'd have paid for Diablo 2 battle.net play, assuming they'd thrown in some extra content on a monthly basis, for instance. Maybe not gladly, but not with extreme reluctance either. Of course, with that subscription fee would've come MUCH higher demands with regards to anti-hacking/cheating, overall support&uptime and all those things.
Re hours of contents per dollar these days, sure, games are shorter, but the amount of work required is also exponentially higher now. Your average shooter in the 90s might have had 40+ hours and gazillions of levels, but the quality of those 40 hours wouldn't exactly fly today. People (including me) complained about repetitiveness in the Halo games, but that's nothing compared to Doom, ROTT, Wolf3D et al  Of course, that's not a fair comparison at all but since we're discussing hours...
AAA games these days are 80 people working for three years. It probably takes almost as long to model and texture a single piece of furniture/prop these days, as sketching out an entire map in Doom 1/2
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| 24. |
Re: subscription |
Mar 26, 2008, 20:11 |
wtf_man |
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#2 though.. Why is MMO the only category where it's acceptable to charge a subscription fee? What is a Diablo clone anyway, if not an MMO with better gameplay and smaller crowds? It's about the content delivery model.. I see no reason why paying to play an action rpg/whatever with constant content delivery. Can't see why paying for a DC should be goddamned awful, while paying for a shitty MMO is perfectly acceptable.
Well, when one pays a subscription, one usually expects that they are paying for a service to maintain a persistent / somewhat dyanmic virtual world.
The mindset of paying a fee for basically the type of multi-player game that has always been free, is a tough hurdle to jump over for most gamers.
I mean... look at Guild Wars... it's closer to an MMO than Hellgate will ever be, and they don't charge a fee.
Does a company have a right to try that business model?
Sure.
Will a majority of gamers support it?
Well, with a monthly fee, comes much higher expectations of support and content... so if a non-MMO game isn't a blockbuster "out the door", you can pretty much bet that the game will fail.
Games over the years have been charging more and giving less. It's starting to piss gamers off. Your average shooter in the mid-late 90's had 40+ hours of gameplay for $30-$40. Nowadays, we're lucky to get 10 hours of gameplay for $50-$60.
Now they want to charge a monthly fee on top of that???
Heh... needless to say, that rubs against the grain of most people's thinking.
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| 23. |
Re: subscription |
Mar 26, 2008, 10:49 |
peteham |
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@wtf man:
All your reasons fall under the "shitty game" category besides #2, and believe me, I couldn't agree more.. What a truly shitty game.
#2 though.. Why is MMO the only category where it's acceptable to charge a subscription fee? What is a Diablo clone anyway, if not an MMO with better gameplay and smaller crowds? It's about the content delivery model.. I see no reason why paying to play an action rpg/whatever with constant content delivery. Can't see why paying for a DC should be goddamned awful, while paying for a shitty MMO is perfectly acceptable.
As far as setting a precedent: Vote with your wallet. But with the success of WOW in mind and all, I don't think most publisher need to have even heard about Hellgate to consider releasing a subscription-game, flop or no...
This comment was edited on Mar 26, 11:02. |
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| 22. |
Re: subscription |
Mar 25, 2008, 14:57 |
Prez |
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The bottom-line answer is simple... people don't like being gouged.
Pretty much it in a nutshell. Non-subscribing customers are treated like redhead stepchildren. |
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| 21. |
Re: subscription |
Mar 25, 2008, 08:32 |
wtf_man |
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I've said this before, and I'll say it again: I really fail to see why people whine so much about the subscription model.
1. Because people are sick of paying then subscribing to something half-baked, buggy, fairly incomplete, and being forced to "pay to beta", which most MMOs are launched in that state.
2. Because a Diablo clone is NOT an MMO.
3. Because the included content is so repetitive, that it's not even worth the box price, let alone a subscription price on top of it.
The bottom-line answer is simple... people don't like being gouged. They also don't like the idea of a company setting a precedent that launching a shoddy product then charging a fee is "ok". (Of course many MMOs have set this precedent already, but again, a Diablo clone is not an MMO - which means the precedent leaking into the other genres).
Thank heavens that subscription games that are shoddy, flop fairly quick, nowadays.
/shrug
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| 20. |
Re: The only thing that's important |
Mar 25, 2008, 03:10 |
Jerykk |
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What's especially humorous is that he's criticized Crysis in almost every thread it's been in.
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| 19. |
Re: The only thing that's important |
Mar 24, 2008, 22:56 |
Beamer |
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g_mann is unable to think critically.
Spoon feed him whatever you'd like, he'll smile and politely ask you for more.
Or so his redundant posting habits have led me to believe. |
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| 18. |
Re: The only thing that's important |
Mar 24, 2008, 20:35 |
g_mann |
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Fault finding is a common ego boosting practice. You put yourself in a position of superiority, in this case, to the game
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| 17. |
The only thing that's important |
Mar 24, 2008, 19:27 |
Creston |
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is that their worthless business model has proven to be a catastrophic failure. So other devs/publishers, who were looking on with eager, greedy eyes, will now realize they'll have to find some other way to foist gamers out of their money.
Huzzah!
Also, Bill Roper is turning into an uglier version of Hillary Clinton. Keep lying Bill!
Creston
This comment was edited on Mar 24, 19:27. |
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| 16. |
subscription |
Mar 24, 2008, 18:30 |
peteham |
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I've said this before, and I'll say it again: I really fail to see why people whine so much about the subscription model. You can either pay to play - like any mmorpg - or you can not pay but still have access to nearly all the content. And while in reality nobody serious about the game would want to NOT subscribe, it's still a pretty nice option. If they'd just gone ahead with pure "subscribe-or-you-won't-be-able-to-play-at-all", the whinging wouldn't exist. Why?
Of course, the fact that it's a totally shitty game is another matter entirely, and why anyone would want to play it is beyond me...
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| 15. |
Re: No subject |
Mar 24, 2008, 15:41 |
Krovven |
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Ya, Hellgate is in its box at my house :(
I seem to recall you vehemently defending Hellgate London and Flagship just prior to release and when the game first came out.
----------------------------------------------------
Burnout Paradise, Bioshock, Ratchet & Clank ToD
Join the "Blues News" Steam Community Group. http://steamcommunity.com/groups/bluesnews/ |
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| 14. |
Re: No subject |
Mar 24, 2008, 14:10 |
Fion |
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AoC is gonna rock. I think of the launch is reasonably bug free and polished it's going to greatly appeal to all those MMOG players trying to get away from the 'WoW' style MMOG.
I like how he says;
"If your trying to copy WoW. If your trying to make WoW2. Your going to fail. Theres one company that's gonna do that, and thats Blizzard."
I think that was a fairly direct stab at WAR, which looks and plays so similarly to WoW lol.
But yea, if Funcom is on the ball, releases a relatively bug free and polished MMOG, and quickly gets on top of any issues that crop up with release (as there always are such issues.) The game will be quite successful. 
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| 13. |
Re: No subject |
Mar 24, 2008, 13:48 |
Cutter |
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Jesus is Lord! If Jesus has no power,why get upset?
Lord of what? The Dance? Sorry Michael Flatley owns that title. It's not Jesus that upsets people, it's his followers. As the old expression goes, 'Dear Lord, please protect me from your followers.'
'The media says I use fear as a tactic. That doesn't even make sense. How do you use fear as a breath-mint?'
- Terry McGurrin as George W. Bush |
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| "Are you crazy? Is that your problem?" - Jack Burton |
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| 12. |
Re: Buggate:Crashdon |
Mar 24, 2008, 13:15 |
Undocumented Alien |
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My son and I completed all of the content with 2 characters.
Certainly the game was probably more fun in coop, but you have been lucky enough to have someone to coop with. I had plenty of friends try out the demo and say "Thanks but no thanks".
Then, if you play online, there is only usually 2100 people playing in all of the US and any other region that may use the US Server at PRIME TIME weekend nights. Then if you hit the party button you can seldom find a party, hence no coop.
The game is PAINFULLY boring when you play solo.
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| 11. |
Re: Buggate:Crashdon |
Mar 24, 2008, 12:11 |
anyawow |
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I seem to be one of the few who actually loved Hellgate:London, even with all of it's bugs and rehashed environments. My son and I completed all of the content with 2 characters. Of course, there was no way that we would subscribe at this time. Perhaps, in a year or so, after more content is added we may.
But, then there is Age of Conan. We are both hugely looking forward to the game. Hopefully, our high expectations won't be smashed. hehe
But, then there is Warhammer Online. From beta leakage I have seen, I don't think this will be ready until the end of the year. We are hopeful for the game, but out expectations are not the greatest at this time.
This comment was edited on Mar 24, 12:26. |
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| 10. |
Re: No subject |
Mar 24, 2008, 12:11 |
The Half Elf |
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Was pretty impressed with the AoC interview. Finally a guy making a MMO who flat out says We aren't trying to make a WoW 2, cause the only people who could do it would be Blizzard, and trying to copy them just won't work.
As for the launch... well all MMO's have had a road bump or two during launch week.
But considering Anarchy Online is still going, I think AoC will do fairly well. Don't get me wrong I enjoy WoW, and it has great art direction etc, I think people are looking for more of an adult MMO.
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| 9. |
Re: No subject |
Mar 24, 2008, 11:10 |
Undocumented Alien |
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AoC sounds like its gonna have a pretty rough launch, but I have a feeling its going to be a moderate success and do reasonably well.
Just curious, but why do you think that it will have a rough launch?
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| 8. |
No subject |
Mar 24, 2008, 11:07 |
NKD |
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AoC sounds like its gonna have a pretty rough launch, but I have a feeling its going to be a moderate success and do reasonably well. Obviously it doesn't cater to 12 year olds so it won't do the same numbers as World of Warcraft, but I think it'll be pretty fun for the older gamers or long time MMOers who have been around since UO or EQ, or before.
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| If you don't like where gaming is heading, stop giving your money to the people who are taking it in that direction. |
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| 7. |
No subject |
Mar 24, 2008, 09:17 |
HellSlayer |
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Ya, Hellgate is in its box at my house:( Now looky at AoC, looks pretty cool!:)
Jesus is Lord! If Jesus has no power,why get upset? |
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26 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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