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Steam Sale

A Steam Sale runs now through the end of the year, offering 10-50% off on every game on Valve's broadband delivery service.

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52. No subject Jan 1, 2008, 12:18 xXBatmanXx
 
This forum is such a broken record when it comes to Steam.

badum-cha.

Supporter of the Cell Phone Jamming movement.
 
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In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. / Few men have virtue enough to withstand the highest bidder.
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51. Signed up Jan 1, 2008, 01:03 Elricsi
 
I waited all this time, but had to get it for TF2.

It may be better than having to keep the CD in the drive.

 
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50. Re: No subject Dec 31, 2007, 23:26 Kosumo
 
It's ok, people are just letting off some steam

 
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49. No subject Dec 31, 2007, 15:16 VoodooV
 
This forum is such a broken record when it comes to Steam.

 
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48. Re: Be warned of proprietry Steam Dec 31, 2007, 09:50 nin
 
To those who have had problems, I'd suggest not using it. Have you thought of that?


But what would they bitch/cry/whine about then?


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47. Re: Be warned of proprietry Steam Dec 30, 2007, 22:55 Hpankin
 
I got burned by Valve before as have many others.

Wait a sec. Weren't you the one who used an obscenity in an e-mail to Steam/Valve? And they banned you or whatever? I'd say you burned yourself but that would mean taking responsibility for your own actions...and we know that just won't do at all. Oh no, no, no. It was them.

Speaking to the larger issue here, I've gotten a lot out of Steam. It's never given me any problems. I've backed up & restored an entire Apps listing back in August with nary a hitch. I love the convenience of buying games thru Steam and I don't have a problem with auto-update.

To those who have had problems, I'd suggest not using it. Have you thought of that?

 
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46. Re: F Steam Dec 29, 2007, 12:38 mOOzilla
 
It wasnt to provoke flames it was to "encourage" responses by playing devils advocate

Somebody has to do it.




http://www.rense.com/general79/wdx1.htm
This comment was edited on Dec 29, 12:38.
 
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45. Re: F Steam Dec 29, 2007, 10:29 Ecthelion
 
A customer lawsuit would be neither quick nor without cost, and Valve would certainly hide behind the Steam Subscriber Agreement in any lawsuit. As for criminal charges, there would be nothing criminal about Valve's actions in that case. Valve claims it sells its games on Steam as a subscription service not as products. Customers don't own the games they purchase through Steam. They pay for the right to play them at Valve's discretion.
And how is that different from a normal EULA? Have you ever read through one of them? In most cases (if not all), you purchase the right to play the game. You don't actually own it.

Here's an excerpt from the EULA for NWN2: MotB, which I assume is representative of most game EULAs nowadays (any big company is going to employ a lawyer familiar with EULAs, so they should appear similar).
The Software is licensed and not sold to you and its use is subject to this EULA. The Company grants you a limited, personal, non-exclusive license to use the Software in the manner described in the user documentation. The Company reserves all rights not expressly granted to you in this EULA.
All you own is a license to play the game, not the game itself.


As for movies, I've returned opened DVDs for full refunds. But it varies from store to store.
I once bought a CD from Circuit City that was missing the actual CD (the case was empty), and the store actually believed me and let me exchange it for another CD. I imagine most stores would be hesitant to be so accommodating though, so it definitely varies from store to store.
This comment was edited on Dec 29, 10:31.
 
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44. Re: Be warned of proprietry Steam Dec 29, 2007, 01:10 kanniballl
 
I live in Europe and we are used to having rights, perhaps you living in the USA are not accustomed to that but we are. Steam will face the EU commision one day if they continue their current path just as Apple iTunes and Microsoft is facing them.

I won't fall for the "rights" flamewar trap.

As far as "consumer rights" go I've yet to have much of a problem that couldn't be fixed. I have heard from some UK colleagues that their return policy is a little more lax than ours, specifically in terms of software and movies. Plus in the US the policies vary from store to store, where I hear there's a blanket federal policy used in some European countries.

For any business (including autos) that give us trouble we have the Better Business Bureau, which some friends have admitted that helped. For cars purchases we also have the lemon law. But those are for the extremes.

Essentially, most brick/mortar stores on this side of the Atlantic have a return policy of varying degrees; some stores have a month, others 2 weeks.

Depending on the store+item there might be a restocking fee if the item was opened. This is *usually* for electronics if the item worked, but you "changed your mind" after opening it. It's usually 10-20% of price. Again this varies from store to store.

The one thing that becomes a problem is software, which I can't complain about. Why should a store accept an opened box for software when the user could have copied the discs and CD keys and return it? If the discs themselves are scratched you can usually swap for the same piece of software. If it's a compatibility issue with your system or a buggy P.O.S. then you're usually out of luck (though not always).

As for movies, I've returned opened DVDs for full refunds. But it varies from store to store.

So in my opinion the only annoying thing is consistency. Some stores have great return policies while others are only average.
 
"Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you."
-Fry, Futurama
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43. Re: F Steam Dec 28, 2007, 15:14 Krovven
 
Actually, you can just mount a mini-image using Daemon Tools or Alcohol 120%. It'll read just like an actual CD and let you play the game without altering any files.

With Most Wanted it required one of the many emulation masker utilities to get it to work and was a pain in the ass to use, as it didn't always work and only one specific one works. Even once it was working I seem to recall there being an online check to make sure the exe was unaltered. The online part may be null now since EA doesn't support Most Wanted online.

----------------------------------------------------
Currently fragging in Team Fortress 2, Episode 2, Portal and CoH Opposing Fronts.

Join the "Blues News" Steam Community Group. http://steamcommunity.com/groups/bluesnews/
 
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42. Be warned of proprietry Steam Dec 28, 2007, 14:07 mOOzilla
 
What we need is a STANDARD protocol and format for online distribution so we the consumer do not get burned. I got burned by Valve before as have many others. While it may not have happened to you (yet) it may do. Be warned.

They will disable your account for simple resons and act in arrogance. In their eyes you have no rights. Im all for digital distribution but no on THEIR terms. I live in Europe and we are used to having rights, perhaps you living in the USA are not accustomed to that but we are. Steam will face the EU commision one day if they continue their current path just as Apple iTunes and Microsoft is facing them.






http://www.rense.com/general79/wdx1.htm

This comment was edited on Dec 28, 14:09.
 
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41. Re: F Steam Dec 28, 2007, 04:56 Jerykk
 
I see a lot of hypothetical situations of what Valve could do rather than what they'd realistically do in the best interests of business.

On another note:

I would have to seek out working cracks that function with online checks anyways, and if the exe is altered I can't play.

Actually, you can just mount a mini-image using Daemon Tools or Alcohol 120%. It'll read just like an actual CD and let you play the game without altering any files.
This comment was edited on Dec 28, 04:59.
 
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40. Re: F Steam Dec 28, 2007, 00:07 >U
 
There is no way Valve would decide to just disable a game across the board.
It certainly could, and Valve says it has the right to do so in the Steam Subscriber Agreement. And, even if Valve didn't disable its game(s), it is also likely that a third-party developer or publisher could pull Steam support for its games. The fact is that Valve could alleviate that problem by simply guaranteeing a recourse in such an event in the Steam agreement. However, it is quite telling that Valve doesn't make that commitment.

If after a lunch break senior management decides that "Nobody can play their copies of Shadowground anymore" then there's be hell to pay.
Well, Valve certainly has its legal bases covered on that issue, so getting it to reverse something like that (assuming that it would even be in a position to do so) wouldn't be easy in the least.

They'd be sued and possibly have criminal charges brought against them for such an action.
A customer lawsuit would be neither quick nor without cost, and Valve would certainly hide behind the Steam Subscriber Agreement in any lawsuit. As for criminal charges, there would be nothing criminal about Valve's actions in that case. Valve claims it sells its games on Steam as a subscription service not as products. Customers don't own the games they purchase through Steam. They pay for the right to play them at Valve's discretion.

Valve goes out of business and disables steam.
But they claim that if that ever happens they'd post 1 last update to disable the call-home feature.
This has "supposedly" been tested on a small scale in the lab
That is pure speculation that is not supported or guaranteed by Valve's agreements. In addition there is no guarantee that Valve would even be in a position to do that depending upon the circumstances of its closure. In a buyout or bankruptcy the former Valve officers might not even have the legal right to do that.

An individual user (or a group of users) "somehow" get their accounts flagged as pirates or something, and Valve disables the account from being able to play.
Actually read my post below (#7), and you will see that Valve has a "zero-tolerance policy" for any violations of the Steam Subscriber Agreement and its code of conduct, and it permanently disables all Steam account associated with users who violate those. A description of the commmon infractions is listed, and as you can see it is pretty open-ended. Bans aren't just limited to hacking and piracy, so even something as relatively harmless as using profanity or insulting another user on Steam could cause a permanent ban. See http://support.steampowered.com/cgi-bin/steampowered.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=368

This comment was edited on Dec 28, 00:26.
 
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39. Re: F Steam Dec 27, 2007, 22:18 kanniballl
 
I don't want to see the huge investment I make in games disappear because some company stops supporting my games or decides to disable my ability to play them. Valve's unilateral authority and ability to disable all of a user's Steam games is simply too much of a risk to take especially when there is no significant price advantage to do it versus traditional games on physical media sold at retail.

I could see someone not liking electronic distribution, or not like Steam for 1 of a dozen reasons...

But I have to call BS here. There is no way Valve would decide to just disable a game across the board. If after a lunch break senior management decides that "Nobody can play their copies of Shadowground anymore" then there's be hell to pay.

They'd be sued and possibly have criminal charges brought against them for such an action.

The only 2 possibilities to watch out for are:
  • Valve goes out of business and disables steam.
    But they claim that if that ever happens they'd post 1 last update to disable the call-home feature.
    This has "supposedly" been tested on a small scale in the lab

  • An individual user (or a group of users) "somehow" get their accounts flagged as pirates or something, and Valve disables the account from being able to play.


  • The first scenario would probably never happen for the same reason stated earlier: lawsuits and criminal charges. They'd have to go after the CEOs of the defunct company.

    So the second one is really the only one to watch out for, so pray nobody posts your account online.
     
    "Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you."
    -Fry, Futurama
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    38. Re: F Steam Dec 27, 2007, 21:42 >U
     
    Which brings us back to the whole copy protection issue. I would have to seek out working cracks that function with online checks anyways, and if the exe is altered I can't play. But I guess you didn't bother to think about that now did you Riley, because you never do bother to think what's on the other side of the coin. Nope, you are just a narrow minded prick.
    No, you are the narrow-minded prick because you didn't understand what I wrote. You just now changed the subject because you were wrong. And, you are wrong here too. First, you don't have to use a crack with NFS:MW. Just install it as I said, and then insert your first disc for the check. It will pass even if a file is damaged because the copy-protection signature is not in the section with the data. Second, if you want to use a crack, fine. It won't prevent you from playing that game online.

    Most Wanted, I already have clonecd images of them all backed up, but as the install completed it crashed the system and I decided to just goto bed at that point.
    You need to get your lies straight. If the game crashed at the end of the install, then disc 1 is not the bad one (which is what you wrote below). Plus, if you do have cloned backups, then simply shut the fuck up and use those.

    But as usual you fail to grasp the point of it all.
    No, I grasped your point, but it's simply invalid. You, on the other hand, you simply lie as usual until you are caught in the web.

    You choose to berate a system that you do not even use
    I choose to berate Steam because it is FAR from perfect from useability and reliability standpoints. However, the biggest drawback to it is that it gives Valve complete control over whether or not a user can run the games for which he paid. I don't use it for that very reason. I don't want to see the huge investment I make in games disappear because some company stops supporting my games or decides to disable my ability to play them. Valve's unilateral authority and ability to disable all of a user's Steam games is simply too much of a risk to take especially when there is no significant price advantage to do it versus traditional games on physical media sold at retail.

    But then you want to suggest pain in the ass and time consuming steps to attempt to get a broken CD to work
    Those steps are quite easy and would take mere minutes to perform unless you are retarded which is far LESS time than what it would take to download the gigabytes of a game from Steam on a typical Internet connection.

    the few issues outweight the physical media issues.
    They certainly do NOT. When Steam isn't working, ALL of your Steam games don't work. When a physical disc has problems, you simply lose access to that one game at most.

    This comment was edited on Dec 27, 22:05.
     
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    37. Re: F Steam Dec 27, 2007, 20:14 Krovven
     
    Umm, I was supporting Steam in my post which is where it appears you grabbed the "no system is perfect" quote.

    Umm dude, I was responding to Riley...I agree with you...read the whole message not just the part that I quoted from you.

    ----------------------------------------------------
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    36. Re: F Steam Dec 27, 2007, 19:28 kanniballl
     
    Steam isn't without its problems, no system is perfect.

    NO SYSTEM IS PERFECT. You choose to berate a system that you do not even use, but apparently spend plenty of time researching so you can flame it regularly.

    Umm, I was supporting Steam in my post which is where it appears you grabbed the "no system is perfect" quote.
     
    "Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you."
    -Fry, Futurama
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    35. Re: F Steam Dec 27, 2007, 19:14 Krovven
     
    If you had taken your own advice below and made a backup copy of your discs when you first got them, you would also be able to recover with ease.

    Which brings us back to the whole copy protection issue. I would have to seek out working cracks that function with online checks anyways, and if the exe is altered I can't play. But I guess you didn't bother to think about that now did you Riley, because you never do bother to think what's on the other side of the coin. Nope, you are just a narrow minded prick.

    EQ2 has a download option, infact all I need is the EQ2.exe file and I'm good to go. Most Wanted, I already have clonecd images of them all backed up, but as the install completed it crashed the system and I decided to just goto bed at that point. Battlefield, there is another known work around that I have had to use since I bought the game. But as usual you fail to grasp the point of it all.

    Your suggestions...they are moot and along with your ignorance, they really make the point. But seeing as you can't get it through your head, I'll repeat it just for you.

    Steam isn't without its problems, no system is perfect.

    NO SYSTEM IS PERFECT. You choose to berate a system that you do not even use, but apparently spend plenty of time researching so you can flame it regularly. Completely oblivious to the pros it has as well as the cons. But then you want to suggest pain in the ass and time consuming steps to attempt to get a broken CD to work, when there are much simpler methods and alternatives available, including download distribution.

    Bottom-line is myself and thousands of others (millions reportedly) use Steam and other digital distro services and every happy with them and the few issues outweight the physical media issues.

    ----------------------------------------------------
    Currently fragging in Team Fortress 2, Episode 2, Portal and CoH Opposing Fronts.

    Join the "Blues News" Steam Community Group. http://steamcommunity.com/groups/bluesnews/
    This comment was edited on Dec 27, 19:16.
     
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    34. Re: F Steam Dec 27, 2007, 16:38 >U
     
    So last night I decided to load up Most Wanted since its been awhile. Trying to install, disk 1, fails when trying to copy a file over. Tried about 5 times. NO dice. I've also had this problem with Battlefield Vietnam and Everquest 2...If I had these games on Steam I'd be able to recover with ease.
    If you had taken your own advice below and made a backup copy of your discs when you first got them, you would also be able to recover with ease. Both CD-R's and DVD-R's are dirt cheap these days, and there's no good excuse for not having backups of your games given how much they cost in relation to the miniscule price of blank media.

    However, since you don't have that, try copying all of the discs into a single directory on your hard drive and install the game from there. Sometimes you can copy an otherwise unreadable file from a CD-ROM that way. EA is good about making its installers flexible, and in the case of Most Wanted all you have to do is edit the common_filelist.txt file to be as follows for the installation to work from a hard drive or DVD-ROM installation:

    1,1,Support\EA Help\*.* /s
    1,1,Support\European Help Files\*.* /s
    1,1,Support\*.*
    1,1,eauninstall.exe
    1,1,server.dll
    1,1,server.cfg
    1,1,speed.exe
    1,1,shell_inst.exe
    1,1,safemode_inst.exe
    1,1,NFSMW_icon.ico
    1,1,00000000.256

    In case that doesn't work and if you have no other more immediate remedy, I would recommend downloading an unauthorized copy of the damaged disc or files since you own a legitimate copy of the game and are entitled to a working copy of it.

    This comment was edited on Dec 27, 16:41.
     
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    33. Re: F Steam Dec 27, 2007, 15:40 Krovven
     
    So last night I decided to load up Most Wanted since its been awhile. Trying to install, disk 1, fails when trying to copy a file over. Tried about 5 times. NO dice. I've also had this problem with Battlefield Vietnam and Everquest 2.

    If I had these games on Steam I'd be able to recover with ease. But as it is, the disks are hooped (without physical damage to them).

    But I'm sure Riley has all the answers as to how Steam is evil and will give us long explanations that are simply fabricated like everything else he says.

    ----------------------------------------------------
    Currently fragging in Team Fortress 2, Episode 2, Portal and CoH Opposing Fronts.

    Join the "Blues News" Steam Community Group. http://steamcommunity.com/groups/bluesnews/
     
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