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19. Re: PPU's are irrelevant. Jul 23, 2007, 20:23 wtf_man
 
Carmack is irrelevant. The PC gaming market is will soon consist only of endlessly repetitious MMO's and shitty console ports. Why bother with specialized hardware for the one or two triple A titles made for the PC? The same logic applies too video cards. $600+ for one card? Witness the dying days of this platform. Oh wait, Microsoft is going to save PC gaming with (get ready for it), Vista!!! Hahahahahha, oh damn, I shit myself laughing so hard.

Oh... let's not forget the other things that are going to save the PC gaming industry... ads in games, phone-home-ware activation and subscription (episodic) content (Windows Live, Steam, etc.), and of course... the all time favorite rootkit-ware type of protection - Starforce.

Yup... sure makes me want to run out and buy games.


 
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18. Re: No subject Jul 23, 2007, 15:33 PHJF
 
a Q6600 quad core processor is now $280 USD at a website im looking at.

a PhysX (BFG) card is now $160 USD

PhysX? retarded. Shovel your shit elsewhere, Ageia.

TN2, TNT2, even the earlier Voodoo add on cards. It only broke the bank if you wanted to go the full SLI route.

My Diamond Viper V770 Ultra was $230 when I bought it for bumping my Half-Life visuals up.




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17. No subject Jul 23, 2007, 13:02 VoodooV
 
That's been said for countless years and it has proved wrong everytime so far.

That's not entirely true. For the longest time, the best video cards went no higher than 200 bucks. TN2, TNT2, even the earlier Voodoo add on cards. It only broke the bank if you wanted to go the full SLI route.

but it's like everyone else has said. no one needs these 600 dollar cards. you're deluding yourself if you think you do. There is a difference between building a high end gaming computer and building an expensive computer just because you've got money burning a hole in your pocket.

SLI is a waste of money, so are dedicated Physics cards. Inevitably, all that stuff is going to get rolled into a single card.

 
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16. ... Jul 23, 2007, 10:16 theyarecomingforyou
 
Chicken and egg scenario we didn't have in the early days of GPUs - it was either buy the accelerator or don't play the damn game
And the same is needed now - it wouldn't take long for people to adopt them if UT3 and Crysis both required them. However, developers are playing it safe and the likely outcome is that PhysX will die as developers opt instead to take advantage of dual/quad core systems. I like the idea of PhysX cards but £88 is still too much - it's cheaper than I was expecting but they really need to come down to £50 and need some serious games to utilise them. I'm glad that UT3 will be supporting it but then UT supported S3 texture compression and that flopped.

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15. Bit-tech article Jul 23, 2007, 10:05 BrutalDeluxe
 
I strongly recommend the Bittech article on the subject alongside Agea reaction to Carmack's comments: http://tinyurl.com/2bs9dr

The thing a lot of people are forgetting, is that the reason most companies use Havok is because they can't afford to build their own engines. Havok, IMHO, sucks. Cartoon ragdolls that haven't changed in 3 years, no gibbing, no localized damage decals. It's ruined really good games franchises including SoF and SWAT3, both of them were really reliant on visible localized damage.

I'm not a PhysX fanboy either, all I'm saying, choice is good. If PhysX is a success, the price of the cards will drop, and personally I'd rather buy a 50quid card than a whole new cpu/mobo/ram combo.

I think the major problem they have at the moment is that they cannot just ask producers to make games that only work on the Physx card, and they are too expensive and specialized to be integrated as part of mobos. Adding an extra level like they did in GRAW2 is not sufficient - they need to really give us an incentive to upgrade but coding games that function both with and without the card seem an impossible task (because for the card to be relevant, it needs to seriously affect gameplay).

Chicken and egg scenario we didn't have in the early days of GPUs - it was either buy the accelerator or don't play the damn game

 
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14. Re: No subject Jul 23, 2007, 09:45 manic half
 
carmack pwns you all.

im also a believer that pc gaming will never die. for the simple fact that they make the bloody console games on them.

to be honest ive never really seen the pc as a competitor of consoles in any way. its just always been its own thing and the consoles have been theirs. *shrugs*

either way i love my pc and prefer gaming on it.

 
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13. ... Jul 23, 2007, 09:14 theyarecomingforyou
 
Why bother with specialized hardware for the one or two triple A titles made for the PC? The same logic applies too video cards. $600+ for one card? Witness the dying days of this platform.
That's been said for countless years and it has proved wrong everytime so far. There are plenty of people out there that prefer a general purpose computer to a gaming console. Sure consoles do more but even with a $2000 1080P LCD TV it's still not good reading your email on screen and of course then you need a wireless keyboard and mouse lying about your lounge - not to mention it can be used if other people want to watch TV.

People that work at home on their PC they can justify upgrading their system more easily. For instance, I upgraded my system for audio work but then slapped in a gaming graphics card and I had a great all round system. The value wasn't very there for a specific task but when I combined gaming, work and leisure I was quite happy.

I don't see PC gaming dying anytime soon - the market is still bigger than it's ever been and the client base is increasing all the time. Sure games may have to cut back on graphics development but that's not the death of the platform.

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environment, he can get frightened and run away, leaving his parents frantic. - Auburn
 
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12. PPU's are irrelevant. Jul 23, 2007, 08:47 Toebot
 
Carmack is irrelevant. The PC gaming market is will soon consist only of endlessly repetitious MMO's and shitty console ports. Why bother with specialized hardware for the one or two triple A titles made for the PC? The same logic applies too video cards. $600+ for one card? Witness the dying days of this platform. Oh wait, Microsoft is going to save PC gaming with (get ready for it), Vista!!! Hahahahahha, oh damn, I shit myself laughing so hard.

This comment was edited on Jul 23, 08:47.
 
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11. Re: Not sure about Carmack Jul 23, 2007, 08:36 zirik
 
I understand he might think it's a bad idea to require people to buy yet-another-expansion-card to play a game. It's easy to agree at first but do the maths: upgrading to a new dual or quad core CPU = buying new mobo + cpu = more expensive than slamming a 100quid physics card in the box.

buying a new mobo + cpu will enable you to run many things faster. what does a 100 quid physics card do besides games? nothing. its a hunk of waste.

 
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10. phsyx spin doctors Jul 23, 2007, 08:29 zirik
 
Carmack has said this type of thing before though and I challenge you to dig a little and see what Carmack said about 3D graphics when they first came out – he said it wasn’t going to happen

i just love the twist that physx puts on carmack. when 3d accelerators first came out it was quake that took advantage of it. i dont know where this looney got the idea that carmack said that 3d was not going to happen.

 
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9. Not sure about Carmack Jul 23, 2007, 08:19 BrutalDeluxe
 
The Carmack comment is frustrating. Instead of a PPU he reckons using one of the cores of the CPU is sufficient.

I understand he might think it's a bad idea to require people to buy yet-another-expansion-card to play a game. It's easy to agree at first but do the maths: upgrading to a new dual or quad core CPU = buying new mobo + cpu = more expensive than slamming a 100quid physics card in the box.

So at the end of the day, if physics indeed require so much processing power that they will end up using a processor of their own, it's not financially advantageous to require a new core rather than an expansion card, at least in the short term. In the long term, of course, the CPU solution wins.

 
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8. Re: No subject Jul 23, 2007, 07:31 zirik
 
I'm immediately reminded that Carmack was (IIRC) not interested in having general physics code in the Doom 3 engine

gotta remember though that carmacks specialty is not in physics engines but in graphics technology. he is a firm supporter of implementing opengl subsets for gaming. and hardware manufacturers listen to him. otherwise none of his games will run on graphics cards. implementing opengl subsets keep the price of graphics cards low. that is the difference between a workstation version of the g80 and the consumer version. $4000 vs $500, full set or subset.

 
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7. No subject Jul 23, 2007, 01:18 Shadowcat
 
John Carmack is "not a believer in dedicated PPUs."
I'm immediately reminded that Carmack was (IIRC) not interested in having general physics code in the Doom 3 engine at all until one of the programmers finally convinced him by going ahead and implementing it, so I'm more than a little hesitant to take his opinion as the final word on the subject

 
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6. Re: Sony Jul 22, 2007, 20:58 Bet
 
Which they are, notoriously so. Also desperately backward and oftentimes completely insane. Sony rootkit on music CDs ring a bell?

 
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5. Re: Sony Jul 22, 2007, 20:12 Raiz
 
Stringer's comment is being taken out of context, it was in reply to Jobs saying the record industry executives are greedy.

 
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4. Sony Jul 22, 2007, 19:15 ldonyo
 
Sony accusing anyone of being greedy is tremendously funny, but not in the good way. Yes, Apple is also extremely greedy, but Sony has lion's share of the "greed market" right now.

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3. No subject Jul 22, 2007, 18:36 space captain
 
id rather have a 1000THZ CPU, and many many other things as well

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2. Re: No subject Jul 22, 2007, 18:26 PHJF
 
I'd rather have the 10x multiplyer.

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1. No subject Jul 22, 2007, 17:50 space captain
 
this latest batch of chips utilizes a faster 1333MHz bus speed .... NVIDIA’s nForce 680-series provides full support of the 1333MHz bus... a package that contains four distinct CPU cores with each core sporting 2 Megabytes of cache for a combination of 8 Megabytes. This cache is non-exclusive and each core – if needed – can access up to all 8 Megabytes of it. A 9x multiplier of the 333MHz bus gives a default clock speed of 3 Gigahertz

yowzers

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