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Open Letter to CCP

An Open Letter to CCP (thanks Lyme) serves up a crop of complaints to the developer of Eve Online, following on the heels of a recent scandal that rocked the science fiction MMORPG (story). The open letter covers further allegations of developer misconduct, and the Eve Online forum post discusses the issues raised in the open letter and complaints about how efforts to bring this to light have been seemingly quashed.

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26. Hatfields and McCoys May 29, 2007, 22:23 Kxmode
 
Distill these conversations down into one concept.

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http://www.gamemusicjukebox.com/
http://music.download.com/kxmode
 
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25. Re: No subject May 28, 2007, 15:28 Lactose The Intolerant
 
You're wrong about that.

 
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24. Re: No subject May 28, 2007, 11:42 TorTorden
 
One thing I would like to point out here is that people whining in this thread are the ones who dont play. If they have played it does not sound like they got far past the trial.

btw, what's wrong about text games ?
 
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23. Re: No subject May 28, 2007, 06:36 pgoeleven
 
Tromper, can I have your stuff?

 
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22. Re: No subject May 28, 2007, 00:26 Asmodai
 
I'm a knee jerk reactionary douche so forgive me but the angst that these people seem to go through just has me wondering why they bother?

I think because people get invested in what they have worked hard to build.

Eve never interested me but I recall how I felt when I deleted my SWG toon. I had RP'ed him pretty well, had built up a home filled with mementos of things I had done, and it was something that I could take pride in, even if it was only a game. And it sucked when they f#cked the game up which eventually pushed me out the door, because I was really attached to my toon and it was a significant amount of work to get him to that point.

When you consider the size of some of these corporations in the game world and the amount of hours poured in to creating them, the amount of work RP players and volunteers put in to creating a rich, playable universe, is it any wonder people are so pissed off when they are told

-"screw you, the story arc will play out the way we want it"
-"hey, we just gave your opposition really high level schems, sux2bu"
-"one of our employee's joined your corporation to scan through your shit for 15 mins and we refuse to acknowledge that he did anything wrong or offer you any redress"

?

If I was playing a competitive game and found that the ref's were actively siding with the opposition, I'd be pissy too. Just because these guys play a computer game rather than spend years in training for a sport doesn't make it hurt any the less.

 
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21. Re: How True May 27, 2007, 20:07 TorTorden
 
http://www.wotmud.org/  
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Yes, I abuse grammar by opening my mouth.
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20. How True May 27, 2007, 19:26 Icewind
 
these things have never caused those giant epeen, metagaming, nerd-drama loving faggots to stop playing, fuck 'em. Wish they'd keep their damn whinefest to their own forums, whatever rock thats under.

Agreed.

Though what surprises me is that people actually PLAY this game. It's about one rung on the ladder up from the old Infocom text adventure games I played on my Commodore 64.

 
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19. Art imitates Life May 27, 2007, 17:55 FourPak
 
Even in a game, Corporate Capitalism is a dismal failure and brings out the absolute worst in people. No surprise the player orgs are called Corporations. Art imitates Life.

 
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18. Re: Some thoughts... May 27, 2007, 17:20 PacoTaco
 
Yes, I read the posts before my response to it all. The Dev/QA/ ISD departments should not be allowed to play the game with the public, but if they do not change that policy, then cheating by those same people is not a surprise to me. Playing the game knowing these problems will always exist is part of the game for me, let's say I feel that even with cheating going on I can still "win" my definition of win = having fun blowing them up, mining ore, building things, ratting, fitting new ships and old, mission running, hanging with my online corp. mates, etc. Just because the cheaters are crazy enough to risk everything they have to cheat a bit here and there will end up costing them everything eventually including the entire player base if it happens to be CCP over and over, but I will still win / play until I see the entire game, or bore of it before then.

Even normal players boast of cheating on vent and other non in-game IM clients, cheating and getting away with it in life is just the way some people live their lives, and play games, it is human nature. When I hear about people cheating, ie: macro mining frauds, etc. I have a choice to report them or not interact with them anymore, etc just like real life, I always choose to not associate with them anymore, and move on, I do this because I am greedy with my playtime, and wasting it on them is pointless.

One thing I have learned is that it all comes around, cheating, lying, stealing, in real-life and in a game, you end up losing in the long run, watched and done it over and over again myself. The only people I want to continue to try to cheat is the US government, or anyone I consider being ďthe manĒ as they will always default to cheating, lying, starting wars, etc for no other reason then to make more money / gain more power then they will ever be able to use in their life times.

The real fight in life is for humanities freedom, and attempting to educate the unaware. My only question about these events would require a lot more data, seeing how many posts have been made about this subject, press coverage, player base number changes, subscription cancellations, on and on, only with that data could I see if this actually helps the game make more money or less.

What if it actually increases the player base by all the web coverage, and people becoming interested in the game because of it? Could it be a CCP plan to get free press around the world every few months? I tell you the first time I heard about Eve was when a scam artist stole billions to buy a mother ship BPO and then blew it up, I was like thatís crazy, and somewhat cool. A year later I was bored of FPS games, and started playing EVE, the evil seed took hold, and grew.

Who really knows, thatís why life is fun to live, you never know.

This comment was edited on May 27, 17:23.
 
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17. Re: Some thoughts... May 27, 2007, 16:22 TorTorden
 
I too have been a player of eve online for the past year and then some, although I find these things repulsive, keep in mind there are several incidents contained in this open letter, as far as I understand it, the rigging of a role playing event, from an eve person I can state that probably less than 3% of the player base gives a shit about rp events. The second is a gm suddenly joining a corp without invitation, then give himself director rights and accesses a player owned structure, the darkstar director petitions this when it is discovered in the log's. The petition is deleted within 30 minutes and no backups seem to exist, any further quiries is ignored, keep in mind this is a pos owned by BOB adverseries.

The third issue is a ISD (eve volunteer orginasation) ports into a BOB battle, A bob dreadnought pilot start trying to order the isd rep.

A minute later, Daakon, of BoB, began yelling in local "Hey, Reporter, you bumped our dread!!!" This was a falsehood, since the dread I jumped to was on the outside of the group and I made sure not to do just that.

I ignored him. A year and a half of Reportering and you get used to ALL BoB members trying to order/bully you around. It is a common practice (WAY TOO GODDAMN COMMON) that ISD members are ordered to completely ignore.

Eventually, Mr. Daakon began giving me DIRECT ORDERS. "You must leave the system. Now. Move, you shit!!"
My response?

"Um...no?"

Their response was pretty indicative of the manner in which BoB is used to ordering CCP personnel around...in LOCAL CHANNEL of 250+, Daakon replied:

"Well, I guess I'll have to call up my friends in CCP and get you dealt with."
You can read the rest in the letter, but the jist is that a brand new nick enters his irc link with his isd superiors and orders him to obey the bob pilot.

The scary bit here is that internal affairs department gets put on this, they find his IP from inside CCP in QA department, the isd is told to take care and he logs off, three hours later all his ISD accounts and logins are blocked.

As for the QA ip, nothing further is known.
Now that BOB as a player alliance having direct msn contacts with developer is a huge problem for this, a cancer far surpassing macro miner or isk farmers, in short fact I think all ccp personell should not be able to exist in corps\alliances, they should not be capable of leaving regular npc corps, if they have to exist on the public server alone, the simple statement of the devs having to play the game is no longer considered good enough.

If it had been me setting protocoll here, that bob pilot or any other pilot mouthing off against isd personell should have been immediatly banned on the second, his character deleted, there should be a zero tolerance policy on this.

It's sad that a game so fun and interesting should be this corrupted, I supoose I will reconsider my subscription status once renewal comes up.
 
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16. Re: Some thoughts... May 27, 2007, 15:36 Tbh
 
bI met the people of CCP they donít have time to cheat, they are too busy building the game to cheat, if they want to fix people claiming that cheating in some from is happening.b


You do realise that with the last issue, the guy (one of the friends you met) did actualy come out with an admittance of abusing his position to 'cheat'?

Seriously mate, step back and take a reality check (judging from your post, youre totaly locked into it), drop eve for a while, sit back and watch it all happening with an open mind.

You won't make an ending statement like you just did again.

 
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15. No subject May 27, 2007, 15:10 Tbh
 
And another.

I think the biggest joke of the lot is having the self confessed ccp forever till i die (gm arkanon) heading up the internal affairs department.

It's a total sham, no way in a month of sundays would this guy ever rat on his friends.

Honestly guys if you only knew the stunts these people pull, ccp's empire basicaly operates on manipulation, they create and nurture alot of the attitudes that come out from the eve playerbase.

I feel genuinely sorry for anybody caught in ccp's loop, and pity those that get sold in to picking it up and giving it a go.

 
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14. Some thoughts... May 27, 2007, 14:50 PacoTaco
 
Hi, my opinion is posted on Blues since I have been reading it everyday day for what could be close to 10 years, have worked in the games industry for 18 years, have played Eve for the past year, and met some of the people from CCP at GDC this past year, and finally is written with the general public in mind as itís focus not players of the game.

Eve is a hardcore game, for hardcore people. I have to admit getting very upset playing it, also having some of the best times in my game playing career in the world of Eve, these emotional highís and low make it all worthwhile for me. Eve was my first MMO, but I had played games like Trade wars, Star Flight, Elite, Spaceward Ho, on my old apple II E, and PC, Macís. At this time I am sitting a on a pile of ISK waiting for training skills to complete, as I have drained every part of the game that I found to be interesting, I can currently buy my end goal ships Dreadnaught, and Carrier but have another 3 months of training in real-time to fly one of them. Would I trade my ISK for training time? Yeah in heart beat I would, at this point I am a perfect customer, I monitor my characters with out using much bandwidth, my subscriptions are paid for by using the CCP system that allows players to buy game time cards for ISK, I cant spend my ISK for accelerated training time, at least they allow you to grind out a lot of ISK, then spend it to play for free.

On this issue, most people who are playing this game hardcore like I have been donít even waste their time with these events, itís cool, glad they do them, but in the greater scheme of things I rarely even notice they are going on, where they happened or who won what, nobody who I know who is playing really cares, we care about our own goals for our Alliance and surviving life in 0 space with out it costing us set backs like ship loses, Player Owned Stations (POSís), etc. This game allows you (with a lot of work) to create your own home in space, something that can be stolen from you with a lot of work from on opposing force of people.

If I had not played everyday for 12 hours a day for a year straight I would still have lots of stuff to do, and I know they are working hard to make new content for people like me, you know ďCrazyĒ people. Every time I get a new ship, I am excited to try it out, work out the fittings, test it in combat, etc. Itís a great great game, would not have lasted this long if it was not.

The people of CCP care a great deal about this game, it is their life / livelihood, and has been for many years now. If the issues are true they will fix it, if not they just got a lot of free press again about how this game seems to be corrupt as real life governments, and corporations. Almost 30,000 people around the world are playing EVE as I write this response in one universe that alone is great leap forward in these types of games.

If you want to play a hard game, based on Science Fiction, and are bored of WOW or something else, try it out, form your own opinion, at first it will seem overwhelming boring, or complicated, if you can get through these first few hurdles and meet some good people, you will have a blast. I met the people of CCP they donít have time to cheat, they are too busy building the game to cheat, if they want to fix people claiming that cheating in some from is happening, they only need force the GMís from playing with the general public or outside the JOVE empire.

Thanks for reading this long post, hope it helps people understand a little more about things from a Eve person!

This comment was edited on May 27, 17:33.
 
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13. I don't speak nerd May 27, 2007, 14:34 HugoFuguzev
 
Could somebody maybe translate that stuff into English, and then give a brief synopsis? I'm interested in the story, but I don't speak Massmog, and I'm not interested enough to wade through everything on that page.

 
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12. Oh.. May 27, 2007, 12:33 Calabi-Yau
 
.. for an SF MMORPG that concentrated on the important stuff: weapons, combat, spaceships, robots, aliens, belting, trading, piracy, fleet battles .. like MP "Elite" with an added FPS, or "Traveler" online, or maybe Vendetta Online with a decent space combat model.. (and Starshatter has the flight model right, those guys should hook up. And they should get the graphics from Homeworld 2 while they're about it.)

This comment was edited on May 27, 12:38.
 
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11. Re: No subject May 27, 2007, 12:09 sir
 
'..Do you know the Klingon proverb that tells us revenge is a dish that is best served cold? It is very cold in space...'

www.khaaan.com

 
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10. Re: No subject May 27, 2007, 10:40 Tromper
 
I terminated my EVE subscription back during the 'first' scandal, no longer even caring that my 31mil SP character had nine billion ISK and another five billion in ships.

I don't understand why people continue to whine. Just quit. There are other games out there. Babbling endlessly about EVE crap on non EVE forums is as boring as me having to remind you to shut up and go spank your crank in the appropriate place. God knows that's what the five thousand drunken European teenagers with five accounts each are doing.

 
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9. Re: No subject May 27, 2007, 02:16 Lactose The Intolerant
 
Eve is a technically flawed, boring, and now exposed corrupt game. And despite it, these things have never caused those giant epeen, metagaming, nerd-darma loving faggots to stop playing, fuck 'em. Wish they'd keep their damn whinefest to their own forums, whatever rock thats under.



lololol internet spaceships serious business.

 
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8. Re: No subject May 26, 2007, 23:31 AnarKane
 
Eidos 2.0, anyone? If anyone remembers their billing system fiasco with Horizons that became the game mess of '06.  
"We can do this one of two ways. There's the hard way, which involves hours of discussion, tons of negotiation, half a dozen bribes, and no guarantee of success."
"What's the easy way?"
"Liberally placed high explosives."
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7. No subject May 26, 2007, 22:43 Will W
 
I canceled my accounts the last time a CCP dev got "outed" for cheating too....I'm glad I did now!

The game has become too much of a blob-fest which was destroying my enjoyment of the PvP at the time. Perhaps had I devoted more time to the game I could have gotten "used" to it or something, I don't know, but I don't have alot of game-play time and when I play games I play them for fun and not as a second job.

Thank god for VGA Planets! :-)

 
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