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Steam Security Follow-up

1UP.com has a follow-up from Valve about reports that the Steam servers may have been compromised (story). Word from Doug Lombardi is that while information may have been retrieved from a third-party site, Steam is still safely contained in their steampipes:

Doug Lombardi, director of marketing at Valve, says, "There has been no security breach of Steam." However, he does confirm our expert's findings by adding, "The alleged hacker gained access to a third-party site that Valve uses to manage the commercial partners in its Cyber Café program. This Cyber Café billing system is not connected to Steam. We are working with law enforcement agencies on this matter, and encourage anyone with more information to e-mail us at Catch_A_Thief@valvesoftware.com."

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82 Replies. 5 pages. Viewing page 1.
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82. Re: GREAT NEWS that valve got pwned Apr 26, 2007, 10:51 Tango
 
nin - you forgot:

5. Both refuse to accept not everybody thinks the same way as them.

This is the root of Riley's problem - I've never seen a phrase like "in my opinion" or "your mileage may vary" etc from him. There's a word for people like that.

 
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81. Re: GREAT NEWS that valve got pwned Apr 26, 2007, 09:52 nin
 
Man, you have to be related to Jack Thompson.


Assley, the spawn of Jack?


Hmmm...yeah, that would explain a lot. I think you're onto something...

edit:
Let's see:
1. Both have a broomstick up their ass.

2. Both babble incoherently and won't STFU.

3. Both make up bullshit to support their bullshit arguments, stating opinion as fact.

4. Both are dumb as a box of rocks.


Yeah, I'd say it's time for a DNA test there...


-----------------------------------------------------
Listen, now: http://yearzero.nin-thespiral.com/FLJoi4gjw2f/player.html
This comment was edited on Apr 26, 09:56.
 
http://store.nin.com/index.php?cPath=10
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80. Re: GREAT NEWS that valve got pwned Apr 26, 2007, 03:27 Masa
 
Man, you have to be related to Jack Thompson.

 
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79. Re: GREAT NEWS that valve got pwned Apr 26, 2007, 03:21 Masa
 
Hey, I just call it as I see it, and my rather non-creative name for you isn't merely some personal attack.

 
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78. Re: GREAT NEWS that valve got pwned Apr 26, 2007, 03:13 Riley Pizt
 
You are a fucking retard.
Your name for me is as bone-headed, idiotic, and unimaginative as you are.

You obviously want to become my nemesis, but you are going to have to do a lot better than that. I have been called worse by a lot better than you and called better by even worse.

This comment was edited on Apr 26, 04:10.
 
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77. Re: GREAT NEWS that valve got pwned Apr 26, 2007, 03:06 Riley Pizt
 
I believe, as with everything else, it is up to the consumer to do his homework before he purchases a product blindly.
A customer can't make an accurate, informed decision when he is misled or not sufficiently informed by the company which produces or sells the product.

As I said in my post, which you decided to ignore, that it does state that Steam is required to play.
I didn't ignore it. What you are too biased to realize is that the mere brief statement that Steam is required to play a game does NOT delineate (I used it below but get a dictionary if you don't know the meaning of the word in this conntext) exactly what that requirement entails. Even Valve's Steam subscriber agreement does not spell out specifically and comprehensively what conditions and conduct will cause the termination of a user's account. For example I did not know before mOOzilla mentioned it here that profanity used in a customer service message would result in a Steam account termination. The agreement simply uses broad and wordy legalese which is meaningless to the average consumer. Plus the presentation of this agreement is certainly not as overt as it should be especially prior to purchase.

I'm still not sure what point you are trying to bring across here.
Reading comprehension is obviously a lost art for you. You need to discover it before you reply again.

You seem like the person who would complain about buying a crappy game because you didn't read the reviews on it
Depending upon a game review to determine if you will like a game is like asking someone else to taste your food and tell you if you will like it. Depending upon a game review from a major game industry publication is like asking a chef's wife if you will like the food he prepares.

and the box had a misleading graphic on it.
Of course a game's packaging shouldn't be misleading. Almost no other packaged products can get away with false and misleading packaging so why should the video game industry? At least most other packaged goods can be returned once they have been opened, so misleading packaging for games is even more detrimental to consumers than other products.

I've been in situations where I had to put up with idiots like you because I needed your money. Now I'm past that, just like a lot of other businesses out there.
You should work for Valve's customer service department. With your "I treat my customers like crap because I can afford to" attitude, you would be right at home.

Get over it and get off your high horse.
Actually it is you who needs a good reversal of fortune to bring your aloof, pompass ass back down to earth. Your customers made you, and they can break you.

As far as your 'influence' goes, you might want to check your self-importance in at the door.
LOL! Let me guess, pot, I am also black. Your sense of self-importance is so inflated you look like the Hindenburg. I can't wait to see your fiery crash.

so I'll let you have the last word after this.
You have made that empty promise several times before. And, like the rest of your posts, it's hollow and meaningless.

This comment was edited on Apr 26, 11:54.
 
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76. Re: GREAT NEWS that valve got pwned Apr 26, 2007, 02:56 Masa
 
I call it how I see it, and my descriptive names for you are not some mere personal attack.

You are a fucking retard.

 
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75. Re: GREAT NEWS that valve got pwned Apr 26, 2007, 02:27 Happyclam
 
I believe, as with everything else, it is up to the consumer to do his homework before he purchases a product blindly. As I said in my post, which you decided to ignore, that it does state that Steam is required to play. I'm still not sure what point you are trying to bring across here. Are you the type of person who sees a game in the store and buys it without actually knowing what the game is about? You seem like the person who would complain about buying a crappy game because you didn't read the reviews on it and the box had a misleading graphic on it.

The world doesn't revolve around your sense of moral turpitude. If a customer comes in demanding something they feel that is their right, but I believe that they are wrong, guess what? I'm going to side with me on that one. Of course, I am at the point where I can afford that luxury. I've been in situations where I had to put up with idiots like you because I needed your money. Now I'm past that, just like a lot of other businesses out there. Get over it and get off your high horse.

As far as your 'influence' goes, you might want to check your self-importance in at the door. I'm just as guilty by pandering to your idiocy, so I'll let you have the last word after this.

 
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74. Re: GREAT NEWS that valve got pwned Apr 26, 2007, 02:16 Riley Pizt
 
was wondering when you would break out the big guns and start the name calling.
I call it how I see it, and my descriptive names for you are not some mere personal attack. They are apt to your ludicrous positions and statements.

As a business owner, something I /know/ you know nothing about, I'm not about to let some snot-nosed little shit spew profanities at me for something that is his fault. I will not only lock his ass out of my store, but I will make sure that his products are not supported and he can rot in hell for all I care. There is a thing called consumer responsbility, my friend, of which he had none, and my responsibility to the consumer ended when he took it upon himself to violate the basic tenets of human interaction and the rules that govern my business.
LOL! That is one of the most unprofessional and short-sighted attitudes I have seen. Clearly it is you who doesn't know how to properly run a business.

There is nothing coy about Steam.
LOL! Do you even think about what you write before you do it, or is it just an autonomic response? Do you honestly believe that all of the limitations and the tenuous nature of Steam are expressly, clearly, and simply presented to the consumer especially prior to the purchase of a game which requires Steam? If so, your sycophantic bias has reached the point of outright delusion.

You've stated yourself, as well as others here, that Steam is required to run in order to play the game.
Yes, but that fact is not overtly and simply presented prior to purchase nor are all of the limitations and the tenuous nature of Steam. The mere statement that Steam is required does not delineate exactly what and all that requirement entails and its consequences.

It even states that on the box before you purchase the game, along with the notifications that you have to have an internet connection to play online
While it may state on the box that an Internet connection is required to play online, that is FAR from the extent of the requirements and limitations of Steam. Plus an Internet connection is not just required for online play with Steam. It is required for any play initially and even repeatedly depending upon various conditions.

I'm not sure how much more clear you want it to be.
I have no doubt that a toady like you has no idea what a good service agreement should look like and how it should be presented to best inform and serve customers.

'The customer is always right' is not a literal statement. It is simply a guideline to follow.
You are arguing semantics while I am talking about a proper business phillosophy. Doing what is best to satisfy the customer may not bring the most immediate financial reward, but it is the most ethical way to run a business.

You think you matter to Wal-mart because you go in and buy your clothes there? They could give a rat's ass about you. You're simply a number to them that has no discernible effect to their business as a whole. Welcome to reality.
I have no delusions about the insignificant value of a typical single customer to a large business. I even stated so myself below when I commented that Valve didn't give a damn about mOOzilla because it believes it doesn't have to. He is just one customer of their millions. My point though is two-fold. First I am advocating a position of how things should be NOT simply recounting how things are. Second, even a single disgruntled customer can have a significant detrimental impact on a business if he can rally enough others or influential others to his cause. The very fact that you are so vigorously defending Valve's position demonstrates that. If my complaints pose no threat to the company then there is no need for you to attempt to counter them.

Instead of whining about Steam here, why not try to get a movement started.
Actually my repeated complaining about Steam here and elsewhere does have an impact because you obviously would be surprised at the particular people and the overall number of people who read these forums. Someone reads an idea that I have written here, and it gets passed along or reused by others elsewhere. And, such exchanges occur repeatedly and snowball so they start to reverberate amongst those who are dissatisfied with Steam and Valve's policies. It does have an impact regardless of whether you see it or are willing to admit it.

This comment was edited on Apr 26, 02:28.
 
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73. Re: GREAT NEWS that valve got pwned Apr 26, 2007, 00:51 Happyclam
 
I was wondering when you would break out the big guns and start the name calling.

As a business owner, something I /know/ you know nothing about, I'm not about to let some snot-nosed little shit spew profanities at me for something that is his fault. I will not only lock his ass out of my store, but I will make sure that his products are not supported and he can rot in hell for all I care. There is a thing called consumer responsbility, my friend, of which he had none, and my responsibility to the consumer ended when he took it upon himself to violate the basic tenets of human interaction and the rules that govern my business.

There is nothing coy about Steam. You've stated yourself, as well as others here, that Steam is required to run in order to play the game. It even states that on the box before you purchase the game, along with the notifications that you have to have an internet connection to play online, which I'm sure people like you made companies notify people becuase they're too stupid to think for themselves. I'm not sure how much more clear you want it to be. 'The customer is always right' is not a literal statement. It is simply a guideline to follow. As you are starting out, every little piece of business matters, so all customers are important. As you become larger, the people who pay more have more of a say than the people who don't pay as much. As you become even larger, the clients with contracts matter more than the pickup business you get. Welcome to the world of business. You think you matter to Wal-mart because you go in and buy your clothes there? They could give a rat's ass about you. You're simply a number to them that has no discernible effect to their business as a whole. Welcome to reality. If you don't believe me, try to go to Best Buy and get them to stock some item that only you want, simply because you want it. You think they'll do it? Or will they wait until you get a couple of friends together and say that more people want it? Who has the higher chance of convincing the manager to stock the item?

Instead of whining about Steam here, why not try to get a movement started. Instead of trying to sound pseudointellectual here, why not actually make a difference? Oh, yeah....I know. That's because you'd rather sit on your ass and make noise rather than do something meaningful. I'm sorry....you're right. I'll let you get back to your star trek viewing and cheetos.

This comment was edited on Apr 26, 01:09.
 
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72. Re: GREAT NEWS that valve got pwned Apr 25, 2007, 23:40 Riley Pizt
 
You're accepting m00zilla's statements at face value, while I see that there is something more to the story.
There is nothing more to it that could even remote justify what Valve has done. Valve has completely terminated mOOzilla's ability to play the games which he bought from it. There is nothing that any paying customer could possibly do to justify that action. I can understand but not justify Valve refusing to help an abusive customer, BUT nothing justifies completely disabling a customer's purchase as Valve has done here. If Valve treats its games as a tenuous subscription-based service and not a product like other video games, then it needs to stop being coy about it and overtly, directly, and simply inform consumers upfront at every step of the purchasing process that it can and will disable their purchases at any time and spell out the exact conditions under which it will take that action. Valve's current cryptic, obscured, and overly broad Steam subscriber agreement doesn't cut it. That way consumers will not be misled into throwing their money into something which might be pulled out from under them at any moment.

And you're right about Valve not caring about m00zilla. Why should they?
They should because he is a paying customer. If you can't understand why that makes all the difference in the world, then you are exactly the kind of apologist consumer idiot who is the problem because it is you and your ilk who let Valve and other companies get away with treating their customers so poorly.

And your viewpoints of Steam are again biased by your own ideas of self-righteousness, not through any sort of logic or fair-mindedness.
LOL! "The customer is always right" is not just my idea. It's a basic tenet of business. There is nothing logical or fair about your position. You are simply a sycophantic idiot who lets his adoration of a company's products blind him to its faults and transgressions.

This comment was edited on Apr 25, 23:53.
 
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71. Re: GREAT NEWS that valve got pwned Apr 25, 2007, 23:26 Riley Pizt
 
Um...no. If the customer is being a particular ass and sending hateful email that isn't conducive to solving his/her problem, then the representative can only do so much to help that person.
There you go again refusing to actually read and understand what is written before you pop off about it. The problem in mOOzilla's case is that the customer service representative disabled his Steam account so that he can't play any of his games. The problem here is not simply that Valve's customer service representive refused to help mOOzilla. This customer service representative and presumably Valve's customer service policy actually CAUSED THE PROBLEM by cutting off mOOzilla from the games he had already bought.

Even if it takes "several phone calls" the process is not nearly as difficult with Valve as you complain.
LOL! First Valve has no telephone contact for customer service so an aggrieved customer can't even call it to complain. That already creates distance and delays in the remediation process. Second, if you had actually read what mOOzilla has written, you would have easily seen that it IS as difficult as I have said because Valve refuses to even further address mOOzilla's account termination at all. It has cut him off and has refused to do anything to restore his access despite its automated reply.

Let alone the fact you never quite say what is wrong with the company's public service dept.
LOL! I and others have spelled it out countless times in this thread. Read, grasshopper, read!

This comment was edited on Apr 25, 23:50.
 
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70. Re: GREAT NEWS that valve got pwned Apr 25, 2007, 22:32 Masa
 
No paying customer should ever be prevented from using his purchased products because of his verbiage to a customer service representative.

Um...no. If the customer is being a particular ass and sending hateful email that isn't conducive to solving his/her problem, then the representative can only do so much to help that person.

Much like your problem with fraudulent credit card charges, there's no real reason a customer can't get the problem fixed. Even if it takes "several phone calls" the process is not nearly as difficult with Valve as you complain.

Let alone the fact you never quite say what is wrong with the company's public service dept.


This comment was edited on Apr 25, 22:52.
 
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69. Re: GREAT NEWS that valve got pwned Apr 25, 2007, 21:04 Masa
 
because you are blinded by your own self-indulgence.

You mean bullshit? Do yourself a favor and don't get caught in his circular arguments.

 
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68. Re: GREAT NEWS that valve got pwned Apr 25, 2007, 20:46 Happyclam
 
Well, our argument has run its course then, because you are blinded by your own self-indulgence. You're accepting m00zilla's statements at face value, while I see that there is something more to the story. And you're right about Valve not caring about m00zilla. Why should they? I think I used Dell as a comparison there.

And your viewpoints of Steam are again biased by your own ideas of self-righteousness, not through any sort of logic or fair-mindedness. Not really much to argue here. We'll just be trading our viewpoints back and forth without convincing the other, so I'm pretty much done here.

 
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67. Re: GREAT NEWS that valve got pwned Apr 25, 2007, 15:08 Riley Pizt
 
He broke the rules, as simple as it gets.
And, that is a MUCH too simple outlook. The bottom line is that should NOT be the rule. No paying customer should ever be prevented from using his purchased products because of his verbiage to a customer service representative.

Going back to my movie theater analogy, with him swearing at the movie, do you think they will allow him to stay?
That is a completely specious comparison to this situation. The only reason why an unruly patron would be removed from a movie theater is because it would prevent the rest of the patrons from enjoying the movie. A customer swearing to a customer service representative especially in an email message most certainly does NOT prevent any other customer from utilizing his purchase.

Or how about someone acting raucously at a nice, quiet restaurant? Same thing.
Yes, that is the same specious analogy.

Since he did pay for services, that means that the company feels favorable that the law will side with them.
I have no doubt that Valve is hiding behind its Steam subscriber agreement here and doesn't give a damn about mOOzilla since he is just one customer among millions. My point is simply that such horrendous customer service is unacceptable, and Valve does not deserve its customers' business because of it.

Is Steam malware? Have you encountered huge machine stopping problems with Steam? Is it the threat that you might get banned for some percieved 'wrong' reason, such as cheating, excessive profanity, unsportsmanlike conduct, etc? Is it because they don't have someone to phone in case you have a problem running your software?
Yes to all of the above and more.

This comment was edited on Apr 25, 23:56.
 
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66. Re: GREAT NEWS that valve got pwned Apr 25, 2007, 14:59 Riley Pizt
 
Read the whole post next time.
I read the whole post. You shouldn't have used Microsoft as an example because Valve and Steam pale in comparison to it.

I have checked all the ones under Wikipedia's list of digital distributiors (four or five) and not one had a phone line.
Well if RealArcade is not in that list then obviously that is not ALL of them.


 
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65. Re: GREAT NEWS that valve got pwned Apr 25, 2007, 14:47 Happyclam
 
While you are arguing a great deal, your arguments are based on your own sense of justice of what a customer should expect from a business/corporation. And honestly, the amount of weight you pull is directly proportionate to the amount of money you represent to the company. Dell is an excellent example of this. They'll bend over backasswards for you if you are a large customer that spends enterprise levels of money to them for support, with dedicated customer support that directly answers only to you, etc. The average joe off the street is SOL and gets John the dropout from the local high school who reads from a book of generalised solutions to common problems, who has time limit of how long he can spend on the phone with you.

As far as m00zilla's comparison, I think you're still missing the point. He broke the rules, as simple as it gets. What business is going to tolerate that? Going back to my movie theater analogy, with him swearing at the movie, do you think they will allow him to stay? He'll probably be lucky to be allowed back. Or how about someone acting raucously at a nice, quiet restaurant? Same thing. Yes, profanity can be an effective tool, but it can also hamper your presentation. It merely depends on the situation and also the person you're swearing at. If the situation is hazy and the fault could go either way, then it will probably swing in your favor. If, however, you are in the wrong or percieved by the company to be in the wrong, swearing is not going to do you any good and will actually hurt your chances of a favorable settlement. Because m00zilla was actually banned because of what he did, I would guess that the fault was percieved to lie with him. Since he did pay for services, that means that the company feels favorable that the law will side with them.

As far as problems handled as poorly as Valve, which problems are you speaking of? They have an online knowledgebase that is quite comprehensive. You just seem to dislike Valve because of their percieved invasion of your privacy. 'I want to run this game, but I don't want to because then Steam will be run as well.'. Is Steam malware? Have you encountered huge machine stopping problems with Steam? Is it the threat that you might get banned for some percieved 'wrong' reason, such as cheating, excessive profanity, unsportsmanlike conduct, etc? Is it because they don't have someone to phone in case you have a problem running your software?

I'm not saying Steam is a great piece of software. When Half-life 2 came out, I couldn't play it and blamed my problems on Steam. I spoke with support through email and they walked me through different solutions, but none worked. It turns out it was a bad texture block in memory that had never been accessed until Half-life 2 pushed the card with the graphics. Switching out the card solved the problem. But the frustration with Steam was very real, even though, in the end, the problem was my own. And when Steam was first released, we all know it was a pile of crap that few would touch, except for the CS diehards. But now, it is simply another background process running when I play Red Orchestra or a Zombie mod that I exit out of when I'm done. No big deal.

This comment was edited on Apr 25, 14:50.
 
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64. Re: GREAT NEWS that valve got pwned Apr 25, 2007, 14:26 Tango
 
Then, you should not have used the company as an example
Read the whole post next time.
Valve simply chooses not to spend the money because too many of its customers are sheep like you who don't demand it.
Haha. I don't demand it because (for me) Valve's products have never prevented me from playing the games I paid for when I wanted to. Maybe I'm just lucky.
That is not true. I have not recently checked every one of them, but RealArcade does
I have checked all the ones under Wikipedia's list of digital distributiors (four or five) and not one had a phone line.


 
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63. Re: GREAT NEWS that valve got pwned Apr 25, 2007, 14:12 Riley Pizt
 
That's because most people don't talk like complete twats to people trying to help them. Phone up Microsoft next time you want to do an activation and say "Oi motherfucker activate my f..." (you get the point) and see how far you get.
Although I have never spoken that way to Microsoft, I have done it on numerous occasions with previously intractable customer service representatives and surprisingly gotten my desired result. Sometimes a customer has to demonstrate just how serious he is when he has been wronged by a company, and profanity can certainly assist in conveying that. The bottom line though is that the customer is always right even when he is not. While Valve may not have liked mOOzilla's verbiage, the fact is that at worst it should have ignored his suggestions. It should NOT have disabled his ability to play the games he bought.

If you act like a 9 year old, you can hardly expect much sympathy from the person on the other end of the phone.
It's not a question of sympathy. It's a question of responsibility. A business has a responsibility to satisfy its paying customers regardless of their personal disposition.

Yes there is. Microsoft is an enormous company with sufficient resources to have 24 hour helplines.
Then you should not have used the company as an example. In addition Valve has sufficient financial resources to provide telephone contact for its customers. It doesn't have to be 24-hour customer support. Valve simply chooses not to spend the money because too many of its customers are sheep like you who don't demand it.

No other digital distributor even has a telephone helpline
That is not true. I have not recently checked every one of them, but RealArcade does. It's 1-866-597-5509, and it is available a generously accomodating seven days a week. Live chat support is available for more extended hours. Valve is certainly a large enough company to provide the same thing.

- the whole point is that they try to keep things digital.
No, the whole point for those that don't provide it is to save money and to avoid having to immediately answer complaints.

My point was that a problem with Windows Activation puts people SOL until it's sorted.
But, your point is specious because the problem can be solved very quickly due to Microsoft's superior customer support. Requiring no activation is obviously the best policy from the customer's standpoint, but at least Microsoft has made it much less burdensome than Valve by being much more immediately available and accomodating.

A problem with Steam puts people SOL until it's sorted. That's a valid comparison in my opinion.
It would only be valid if those other companies handled problems as poorly as Valve. They don't.

This comment was edited on Apr 25, 14:22.
 
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