337 Replies. 17 pages. Viewing page 12.
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| 117. |
Re: Pirates=Losers |
Mar 10, 2007, 05:36 |
cliffski |
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you've never seen screenshots of oblivion?
my you are getting desperate now aren't you?
consider this mr pirate,
Whenever you purchase a game, the developer gets money, they get an incentive (a strong oen) to make mroe games like that. Every single sale goes into spreadsheets that convey information that "games like oblivion are cool" and "games like star trek legacy are shit". If you pirate a game, nobody ever knows you did it. Nobody gets pauid for it. As far as the developer knows, that game sucked.
No sequel
No expansion pack
no tech support
Nice work. If you really gave a damn about good PC games, you would buy them, to signal to the develoepr that this is what you want.
but I guess you just want free stuff, and don't give a shit. |
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| 116. |
Re: Sure Todd |
Mar 10, 2007, 05:31 |
cliffski |
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so why don't you steal the car to give it a proper test drive, longer than the one hour demo?
Thats the same logic right? and If you like the ferrari, you can pay for it afterwards right? |
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| 115. |
Re: Am i a bad person? |
Mar 10, 2007, 05:30 |
cliffski |
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| I can download 10 games at once from an infinite worlwide list of them while I'm asleep,. can I do that with libraries? |
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| 114. |
Re: Sure Todd |
Mar 10, 2007, 05:28 |
cliffski |
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"people who pirate games wouldn't have bought them anyway "
pure bullshit.
If I could find a way to get my weeks groceries for free, I'd do it. And I'd probably kid myself I wouldn't have bought them otherwise. |
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| 113. |
Re: No subject |
Mar 10, 2007, 05:24 |
cliffski |
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so as a broke college student, somehow you have a PC that can play the latest ID software game?
interesting. |
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| 112. |
Re: No subject |
Mar 10, 2007, 05:23 |
cliffski |
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the best way to buy a house is to live in it for twenty years first. How much of a demo do you get with a product that takes you twenty five years to pay for?
Normally a few hours at most. |
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| 111. |
Re: No subject |
Mar 10, 2007, 05:22 |
cliffski |
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consoles have been standerdised for years and years. What has happened recently? oh yes, widespread broadband web access and bit-torrent.
nice try. |
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| 110. |
Re: No subject |
Mar 10, 2007, 05:21 |
cliffski |
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Agreed 100%. I agree with everything the id guy said. I used to work for lionhead and now I run my own mini-games company, so I have some perspective on this. Lionhead used to be PC-centric too. You don't think they notice all those Black and White torrents? Any surprise that Fable was a console title first? There seem to be a lot of people trotting out excuses to justify big torrent collections of games they got for free.
Most games have demos, you have no excuses. People buy £250,000 houses on the basis of walking around them for an hour, yet somehow won't spend £20 on a game on the same basis. It's bullshit to suggest piracy is justified, people do it because they like free stuff and think they won't get caught. People also generally don't give a fuck about the people who make games for a living. When called out on this, they bleat about how the game they spend 12 hours downlaoding and 3 weeks playing 'sucked' anyway, and wasmn't worth the money.
If I had access to it, I'd make an MMo or a console game tommorow. Purely because there is no piracy (don't make me laugh talking about pirate servers, thats a trivial number of geeks who all hack and cheat on a server that has no moderation. yay!)
Unless any of you have worked for 2 years on something working long hours and putting tons of effort in, just to see some 9yo git dsitruibuting it for free, you really have no idea how that feels, or the real impact it has.
I know one warez forum with 230,000 registered users. Yeah, piracy isn't a big deal. Riiighhhhhhhht. |
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| 109. |
Re: Online distribution solutions |
Mar 10, 2007, 04:33 |
Staunch |
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Let's say I play Half-life 2 on Steam. I'm done with it, and I sell my "copy" to another Steam user for whatever price I can get. Now that he has it, I can no longer play it. Seems good to me.
Sounds good to me as well but that will never happen because it doesn't sound good for the distributors. They would get much less profit that way since there's no downside to buying a 2nd hand game that you download, it's still in pristine condition, so everybody would always try to buy games that way.
One thing I'd like to add is that you can already sort-of do this with Steam. Create a separate account for each game you plan to sell and when you're done sell the account. Sure it has disadvantages and probably against the TOS but it's feasible.
This comment was edited on Mar 10, 04:36. |
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| 108. |
No subject |
Mar 10, 2007, 04:28 |
Staunch |
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I must say I agree with Jerykk and his points are only amplified more in Australia because of the publishers trying to rip us off since the economy used to be so bad (AU$1 used to be US$0.5 and the prices didn't adjust when it changed) which means your US$50 games are usually US$78 for us. I buy plenty of games each year and it really annoys me when I get a game that I think will be good before trying the demo and it sucking.
Another point I'd like to make in favour of piracy being acceptable is if you bought the game online and have to wait for it to arrive before playing. I find it completely acceptable to pirate it if you want to play it straight away (I did this with The Longest Journey just recently). |
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| 107. |
Re: Online distribution solutions |
Mar 10, 2007, 04:25 |
Charlie_Six |
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Online distribution sucks cuz u can't sell the game used after you're done. Selling stuff on Ebay is how I can afford to play games. Multiplayer focused games, I have to keep. But most games are still singleplayer adventures, and like a movie, you don't really replay the game right away. You might play it again after a few months, or a year or two. But why own a game for that?
I think a good solution to combat piracy would be online distribution, as you said. But also make sure games can be traded through this online distribution system. Let's say I play Half-life 2 on Steam. I'm done with it, and I sell my "copy" to another Steam user for whatever price I can get. Now that he has it, I can no longer play it. Seems good to me. Right now I have Half-life 2 but I never play it, But since I downloaded it from Steam, it's just sitting there.
This would be absolutely ideal to me because Ebay is a clumsy, low-tech system of transferring games to others. I have to ship the physical product, pay Ebay commisions, setup auctions, and put stuff in the mailbox. It's all very ancient stuff to be doing when we're dealing with 0s and 1s, u know? |
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| 106. |
Re: Online distribution solutions |
Mar 10, 2007, 03:47 |
anon@24.76 |
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almost all online distributions are the antithesis of open source. They load all the stuff with DRM crap.
DRM can not be open source. If it was then the publishers wouldn't be in control of the software you purchased.
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| 105. |
Online distribution solutions |
Mar 10, 2007, 03:35 |
mOOzilla |
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Give us a better delivery method.
Agree on some kind of standard delivery and authentication method, something like Steam, not perhaps Steam itself but something like it.
Like it not Steam is here and it is solving some of the problems, while it is not great, it is best of its class out there today.
The last thing I want to do is to have to install 20 download managers in order to purchase and play my product as this is where it is going, we have Steam, we have Sprocket etc I ONLY WANT ONE just like an email client.
Media distribution is disappearing in time, this issue needs to be addressed. We need a STANDARD so we can pick and choose our own clients that connect to the same gaming network.
MS Live will be one, Steam another, cant we agree?
Where is open source etc when you need it, cant they INNOVATE? Meet the demand, fill the gamer needs?
We need an standard ID, we need a standard delivery network, we need a standard image format, we need this to be distributed, we need this to be a level playing field for all game houses we need a total game ecosystem not just for the gamer but also the publisher/development house.
Form a working group to push this or something, get all the shareholders (those with a vested interest, the gamers, the publishers, the dev houses etc) involved in discussion and agree on something.
This comment was edited on Mar 10, 03:41. |
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| 104. |
Re: Id, always finding new ways to suck! |
Mar 10, 2007, 03:14 |
Novoskaya |
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Even if you pretend todd is correct, (I know its delusional all but bare with me) consoles have a Huge piracy problem, bigger than PC.
Those numbers are not id's losses to internet piracy. That's the entire industry, and those are hard piracy numbers. That's the guys in China who rip a game, press it, and resell it throughout Asia. Traditional "hard" piracy, so that $3B is computed from actual sales that don't go toward the developer and publisher of a game.
Let’s pretend that a nice round number of 10% of PC games are pirated
That may be true in the US, but the numbers in Brazil, or China, or even Russia are significantly higher. For some titles the numbers approach 100% in those areas.
Console piracy on the other hand is almost non-existent in comparison. Certainly far less than 5% and probably significantly less than 0.05%. There just aren't that many people with a mod chip in their PS2, even if you and all your friends have one, there are well over 100,000,000 PS2s out there, and you're suggesting that over 5 million of them are modded. Not a chance.
So minimize the numbers and the effect of piracy all you want if it helps you rationalize your own piracy. But Todd's basically correct, and you're basically wrong.
This comment was edited on Mar 10, 03:27. |
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| 103. |
Re: Pirates=Losers |
Mar 10, 2007, 03:13 |
Jerykk |
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You have no need anyways, since you have no "need" for the game in the first place.
Okay, now we're arguing philosophy. No, I don't have any need for the game. Or any game. I have no need for television either. Or movies. Or this computer. In reality, all I need is food and shelter. That's all anyone else needs. Everything else is fabricated by society.
Again, your "logic" is horribly flawed since it implies a need you don't have, and the fact is their is no connection between the actions of the publishers and the actions you subsequently take.
Here's the connection:
1) I like good games.
2) Publishers release games.
3) Publishers don't always release good games.
4) If a game is good, I buy it.
5) The only way for me to truly tell if a game is good is to play it extensively.
6) The only way to play the game extensively without buying it is to pirate it.
Understand? Really quite simple. And logical. And by logical, I mean that each step is clearly connected.
Second, you still haven't offered any solid logical reasons for piracy.
Um, must I repeat myself so often? Refer to post 31. Refute those points logically so that your aforementioned statement is accurate.
But you won't. Instead, you'll say: "I don't need to refute any your points because they are all based on a fallacious premise. You are not entitled to play anything you haven't bought. You have no right." Again, what rights are talking about? It's obviously not a natural right, since nothing in nature is preventing me from doing it. It's not a divine right, since no deity is striking me down. This "right" you speak of doesn't exist.
Your argument is not based on reason, it is based on the irrelevant philosophies of men who lived in a time where digital piracy did not exist. You can regurgitate them all you want, it won't make your argument any stronger.
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| 102. |
MMO's may become the norm.... |
Mar 10, 2007, 03:10 |
Toebot |
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When companies accept the notion that they wont be able to charge for the client.
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| 101. |
Re: Pirates=Losers |
Mar 10, 2007, 02:42 |
Beamer |
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Piracy is absolutely wrong. The question is 'how wrong is it?'
Piracy when you intend to buy is quite wrong. Not as wrong as shoplifting, as shoplifting hurts twice, but still wrong.
Piracy when you have no intent to buy is nowhere near as wrong. Nor as damaging as people are claiming. And this is the majority of internet piracy.
I don't think anyone can sanely deny that it's wrong. I think people can easily deny that it is as harmful as being claimed in the initial post.
-------------
Doomriders: the first new band worth a signature - http://www.deathwishinc.com/ |
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| 100. |
Re: Pirates=Losers |
Mar 10, 2007, 02:36 |
anon@24.76 |
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Very few young people think that copying something is the same as stealing it. Not matter how many times the propaganda tries to tell them it is.
Most young people dont even think its wrong to commit most sorts of intellectual property infringement.
Its going to interesting to see how this turns out in the USA as they grow up.
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| 99. |
Re: Pirates=Losers |
Mar 10, 2007, 02:31 |
Dreagon |
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Ah, kinda like you are using "rights" as some kind of pillar to stand on?
wut? This is going over your head, isn't it.
As for social contracts and obligations: If publishers were obligated to release games that were both finished and good, I wouldn't have any need to pirate, now would I?
You have no need anyways, since you have no "need" for the game in the first place. Again, your "logic" is horribly flawed since it implies a need you don't have, and the fact is their is no connection between the actions of the publishers and the actions you subsequently take. You just stated an unsupported rationalization that is also based on a fallacious premise. Congratulations.
Face it. Your only support in this debate is your moral stance. You believe it is wrong to pirate, no matter how logical the reasons.
First of all, you use the word "moral" as if you think that somehow invalidates my stance. I'm curious how that works. Second, you still haven't offered any solid logical reasons for piracy. |
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------
Carpe Papilla
"@Dreagon - Comparing Oblivion to Deer Hunter was just ridiculous and you should be ashamed of yourself... it just made you look like a Class-A cunt." - theyarecomingforyou |
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| 98. |
Re: Pirates=Losers |
Mar 10, 2007, 02:27 |
Speedrat |
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Go easy on the young one. He likely thinks Hobbes is a cat! 
Anyway I am bowing out of this argument. Maybe once he gets a good job and works hard and then has his work stolen, then he may see things differently. Post 31 and the subsequent posts where he "owned" us by bringing up his additional stealing of movies tell me has has a warped sense of right and wrong.
BTW The statement below has been MY point all along and I still stand by it. I do live by that moral code and all your justifications for wrongdoing don't wash. I'm outta here to enjoy my real life knowing I try to do the right thing.
Face it. Your only support in this debate is your moral stance. You believe it is wrong to pirate, no matter how logical the reasons.
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337 Replies. 17 pages. Viewing page 12.
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