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MS on Vista Game Compatibility

Windows Vista and Games on Gamerscore Blog offers a statement from Games for Windows director Rich Wickham about compatibility issues being reported from those trying to play certain games under Windows Vista (thanks Voodoo Extreme). Word is:

Some of you may have heard about some incompatibilities with games running on Windows Vista. I’d like to clear up some misconceptions.

With any launch of a platform of this magnitude there will be growing pains. A large part of our development time was spent ensuring game compatibility on Windows Vista, and we’ve tested over 1000 games so far. The vast majority of games work great on Windows Vista. Obviously we haven’t been able to test every single game that exists, but we will continue to work on ensuring all your favorite games will work with Windows Vista.

We're not the only ones who are excited about gaming improvements in Windows Vista. Developers and publishers, like Electronic Arts, PopCap Games, Vivendi Universal, THQ, Slam Games, WildTangent and others have taken the SDKs and information we’ve shared with them over the years and are delivering great games experiences on Windows Vista. Clearly folks see the value and opportunity in supporting Windows Vista, and we’re thrilled to see their games take advantage of great features like the games explorer, Direct X10 and parental controls.

Let's talk about parental controls for a second. For the first time, people now have easy to use tools to monitor and control what happens on their computers. Using these controls are optional, so you can choose to block specific content (including unrated or specific game titles), or not. The choice is yours, and that’s the way it should be!

Parental controls are just one part of the improved security in Windows Vista. You will be notified when a program attempts an installation on your system, so you will have the choice to block it, or accept it. By being given a choice, you will have a larger say in the overall health and performance of your system.

So, here’s the party line: “Windows Vista offers gamers, from core enthusiasts to casual game players, the safest, easiest, and most fun experiences of any platform.” But here’s the thing: it’s the truth.

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76 Replies. 4 pages. Viewing page 1.
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76. Re: No subject Feb 6, 2007, 23:17 trashcan
 
DarkCntry why dont you post your prove? If that program really does what you say it does, IT SHOULD BE REALLY EASY TO DOCUMENT .

 
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75. Re: No subject Feb 5, 2007, 09:14 nin
 
Good day Riley, good day.

His name is Assley. Assley Putz.

-----------------------------------------------------
http://yearzero.nin.com/
www.hammiestudios.com is nothing but motherfucking spam. Try www.stileproject.com instead.
 
http://www.nin.com/pub/tension/
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74. Re: No subject Feb 5, 2007, 09:01 Riley Pizt
 
It's funny Riley, you're pretty much the ONLY person who doesn't think WildTangent's software is still perceived correctly as malware,
As I wrote earlier in the thread WildTangent's software is no more malware than Steam or Gamespy Arcade and in the case of Steam, it is less so from a privacy perspective.


 
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73. Re: No subject Feb 5, 2007, 02:20 DarkCntry
 
It's funny Riley, you're pretty much the ONLY person who doesn't think WildTangent's software is still perceived correctly as malware, but hey, whatever floats that little boat of yours.

And seeing as you have failed once again to not stoop to calling people names, I might as well not even try...seeing as this is going to go nowhere and I'd really not deal with a child who cannot comprehend the idea of a debate without the proverbial mudslinging.

Good day Riley, good day.

 
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72. Re: No subject Feb 5, 2007, 00:09 Riley Pizt
 
Packetsniff of a wildtangent-created piece of software on a sandbox machine...6 call homes in less than 30 seconds of installing. Furthering this, finding that it's sending in system information, IP address, and MAC addressing...what's this, I find that it also has my IE bookmarks folder, which thankfully is empty except for the basic bookmarks.
I am calling your bluff. Post some real details, dumbass, so that I can verify your supposed findings. What is your unnamed "wildtangent-created piece of software"? If you had really done your test, you could and would have named it specifically.

Unlike you I have actually read the WildTangent privacy policy posted at http://www.wildtangent.com/index.html?pageID=privacy_wt . Its wording is better than most from a clarity standpoint, but not as explicit as I would like because I would like all information the company gathers to be expressly specified. Of course I have yet to see a privacy policy which does that. That said, from its privacy policy it appears that the worst thing from a privacy perspective that WildTangent collects with some of its products is supposedly anonymous product usage statistics. That is certainly not unusual as both Gamespy and Valve collect the same type of data with their respective software. However, unlike Gamespy Arcade and Steam at least the WildTangent products I have used don't require an Internet connection to be used and therefore that usage information can certainly be blocked without preventing the use of the products. As I mentioned previously, I also know for a fact that the automatic update functionality of WildTangent's driver can be disabled.

In any case I know you are just slinging more bullshit because you didn't name the product you claimed to have tested, and you also said that the contents of the IE favorites folder was sent which is clearly beyond the scope of the information specified in the privacy policy.

This comment was edited on Feb 5, 00:38.
 
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71. Re: No subject Feb 4, 2007, 22:19 DarkCntry
 
Let me see...

Packetsniff of a wildtangent-created piece of software on a sandbox machine...6 call homes in less than 30 seconds of installing. Furthering this, finding that it's sending in system information, IP address, and MAC addressing...what's this, I find that it also has my IE bookmarks folder, which thankfully is empty except for the basic bookmarks.

Yea, that's system updating to me, and yea, that was totally optional.

As I said, Riley, until you can actually debate, might I suggest just sitting back down off your little itty bitty soap box?

 
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70. Re: No subject Feb 4, 2007, 10:00 Riley Pizt
 
Right, as I stated, all benchmarks are synthetic as they have no basis of equal marks between two systems.
That doesn't make the benchmarks synthetic. Sure benchmarks are specific to the PC on which they are run, BUT that doesn't mean they are an unreliable indicator of relative performance.

Meaning you could have the exact same system as me down to the memory timing and still could have a different benchmark result.
The averaged results would not differ significantly in that case.

What from WildTangent is invasive? Simple, the fact that it still has call home features
Sure, WildTangent can be set to automatically update itself just as Windows itself can and many other software programs. That is hardly invasive.

still has information gathering features...
What about WildTangent has information gathering features, and what information is gathered? You are simply speaking in mindless generalities because you have no clue.

gee, I don't know, is that invasive to you?
No, automatic updates aren't if they are optional.

don't fall into the norm of "if that site says something, it must be so" crowd, I do things myself and run tests myself
LOL! Then do it with the WildTangent software, and be specific with your findings moron instead of blindly following the labeling from your antispyware software.

This comment was edited on Feb 4, 12:11.
 
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69. Re: No subject Feb 3, 2007, 22:00 DarkCntry
 
Right, as I stated, all benchmarks are synthetic as they have no basis of equal marks between two systems. Meaning you could have the exact same system as me down to the memory timing and still could have a different benchmark result.

Yes, I'm the deluded idiot...right Riley, right...care to actually try and debate instead of resulting to the petty insults, or is that beyond your capacity?

What from WildTangent is invasive? Simple, the fact that it still has call home features, still has information gathering features...gee, I don't know, is that invasive to you?

I'm sorry Riley, I don't fall into the norm of "if that site says something, it must be so" crowd, I do things myself and run tests myself, which allows me to prove what is and what isn't so. But hey, if you wish to blindly follow these sites, feel free to, I won't stop you.

 
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68. Re: No subject Feb 3, 2007, 19:41 Riley Pizt
 
Benchmarks are all synthetic
Those benchmarks are NOT synthetic. They are the timed results of running the actual games not something like 3DMark.

Does that mean I am an anomaly in the world, the single most lucky person in using Vista?
Judging from the rest of your post it simply means that you are a deluded idiot.

As for WildTangent...they are still, infact, very intrusive and invasive to various things.
Put up or shutup. What from WildTangent is invasive, and how is it so?

They are still being detected as malware because they are still malware.
LOL! And, you think that those who criticize Vista based upon tests run by reputable websites such as Tom's Hardware are gullible. If you believe everything that your antivirus software tells you, then YOU are the gullible one.

This comment was edited on Feb 3, 19:44.
 
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67. Re: No subject Feb 3, 2007, 17:15 Optimaximal
 
That's exactly the same problem as DX 9 vs 10 - having to develop for two different platforms.

 
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66. No subject Feb 3, 2007, 17:12 DarkCntry
 
If another person posts a Tomshardware link and expects it to be a factual attempt at debunking something in Vista...I have several bridges to sell you.

Benchmarks are all synthetic and they will ALL be different to every person, just because I look at a site who uses a benchmark that states this or that is low quality does not mean I will have the same experience.

I installed Vista Ultimate (hey, as a tester I got it free, yay), I installed several HUNDRED different games of varying qualities...did you know I found only one game to really not function correctly? I also found that it had nothing to do with Vista itself, but the program in question. The game's name you ask? Battlefield 2.

The only other problems I have had was pushed down to being the fault of PunkBuster, which is Evenbalance's problem, not Microsoft's.

I'm far from wanting to support Microsoft in terms of praising everything they do, but naysayers and doomsayers for Vista have all been screaming the same things since in was created, none of these problems have shown up in 16 different systems that I have installed Vista on. Does that mean I am an anomaly in the world, the single most lucky person in using Vista? I'm sorry, I don't buy it.

As for WildTangent...sorry Riley, take their cock out of your mouth for a minute and I'm sure you can go ahead and run their little pieces of software and find that they are still, infact, very intrusive and invasive to various things. They are still being detected as malware because they are still malware. Maybe they lessened the amount of malware-like qualities, but it doesn't change the fact that it, RealMedia, and it's ilk are all still annoying little pieces of steaming crap.

 
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65. Re: No subject Feb 3, 2007, 11:41 CreamyBlood
 
Actually, I liked the poor abyssmal performance, it made me go to sleep.

 
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64. Re: No subject Feb 3, 2007, 08:46 Riley Pizt
 
This isn't a suprise.
The poor and in some cases abysmal performance of OpenGL games and other applications compared to Windows XP is a surprise when you consider that it is occuring even when the video driver like Nvidia's is providing the OpenGL functionality. See http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/17/gameplay-only-gets-worse-with-vista/page8.html

This comment was edited on Feb 3, 13:04.
 
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63. Re: No subject Feb 3, 2007, 08:36 CreamyBlood
 
Not that I'm an 'MS supporter' by any stretch. But they've never supported OpenGL out of the box. Ever. Super minimal. This isn't a suprise.


 
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62. Re: No subject Feb 3, 2007, 06:18 Riley Pizt
 
If developers dont like DX 10 being left off XP why not use OpenGL instead.
There are two main reasons they can't. First, Microsoft has crippled OpenGL in Vista so that it isn't really a viable API on Vista. Just look at the poor performance of OpenGL games and software in the published benchmarks. Even in cases where the video driver provides the OpenGL functionality, the performance hit is significant. Second, there is more to DirectX than just Direct3D. Using OpenGL doesn't solve the problem of what to do about the rest of the functionality that DirectX provides.

This comment was edited on Feb 3, 06:25.
 
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61. Re: No subject Feb 3, 2007, 06:11 Riley Pizt
 
So show me the results.
I doubt anyone will test and publish the performance results of every Unreal 2.X engine game on Vista. Otherwise I would.

Show me the results from a game that's not 3.5 freaking years old
UT2004 will be 3 years old this March. And, it's still a game enjoyed by many regardless of its age.

was designed to run under a different operating system.
Look, the hallmark of Windows is backward compatibility. If Windows loses that, consumers might as well move to Linux because at least it is free.

How can you not see the issue here?
The issue is that Vista should accomodate the game to maintain compatibility not the other way around.

I'm a fool because the average performance loss of the tests doesn't support what you want it to?
No, you are a fool because you think that there is a margin of error in the test. There is no margin of error. The tests run, and the results are what they are.

Go run a test on your system and see if it reports the same thing every time after 10 benchmarks... it won't. Margin of error.
That is not a margin of error because the results are not an error/in error. It is simply a minute variance in the test results due to factors like caching or other running processes. It's not a significant variance and averaging eliminates the extremes and so a proper comparison amongst the two OS's can be found. The notion that the performance differences between the two OS's can be discounted or insignificant as the result of a margin of error is ludicrous.

Nvidia is scrambling to put out SLi drivers for Vista. That must be Microsoft's fault! SLi performance is another dropped ball from Microsoft!
It could very well be Microsft's fault due to changed code at the last minute that wasn't given to the hardware OEM's.

There's going to be performance issues. What part of this don't you get?
The part that it will greatly impact performance. The video hardware OEM's have had Vista's code and the driver specs for quite awhile. They also are well experienced at writing drivers for their hardware. It's not like performance is going to greatly improve in driver revisions to compensate for Vista's performance shortfall.

You want 3.5 year old software to work better on a new OS than it did on the one it was written for
It should work at least as well especially since it was written to work on multiple versions of Windows in the past not just one.

Hey, it doesn't run your old DOS games either.
And it should. Microsoft's removing the virtual DOS machine from Vista and not providing anything in its place with comparable functionality and compatibility was a stupid and unnecessary move.

There have been different beta release candidates in the past year, the OS hasn't been out that long.
Hardware OEM's have had various releases of Vista back when it was known as Longhorn for much longer than that for the very purpose of developing drivers for it.

You want the security and stability that an OS upgrade like that takes?
Sure, show me a version of Windows that is really stable and secure, and I'll buy it. Vista is not it.

are showing a performance difference that wouldn't even be noticeable to someone playing them.
It IS noticeable for people running older hardware. The problem with the published tests is that they are run on top of the line hardware. Most people don't have that. For the many consumers who already have performance issues running the latest games, the performance hit from Vista will certainly be noticeable.

XP wasn't the step up from Windows 2000... 2000 wasn't the end user home operating system XP was the upgrade for, Windows 98/ME was. 2000 was a business end/server OS, not an operating system released as a home PC market like Vista.
Read what I actually wrote. XP was the direct successor to Windows 2000, and it certainly was step up from Windows 2000 in terms of compatibility.

Yet, they were, right? I still see WildTangent pop up on adware searches on systems I have to clean up on a regular basis.
Just because the anti-spyware companies flag something as malware doesn't make it so. They do it to justify their existence because if they didn't find anything consumers would think they had wasted their money. I regularly see Mcafee's software flag stuff as a virus that is clearly not. At one time WildTandgent's driver supposedly did collect system statistics and send it to the company without disclosure in its privacy policy. However, that doesn't seem to be the case in any of the WildTangent software I have used since at least 2003.

This comment was edited on Feb 3, 08:37.
 
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60. Re: No subject Feb 3, 2007, 03:40 CreamyBlood
 
I love Friday nights sometimes.

It's an Operating System. It's a jump, and probably a good one, there are a lot of core things besides the superficial ones being touted as a reason to upgrade that are worth looking at.

Think of DOS->Win3.1->OS/2->Win95->Win98->Win2000-WinXP->->Vista.

I took the cheap route, but then I know tech, I went more like this:

DOS->OS/2->W2K->?

Use it for the apps you need. If your current OS no longer runs with your hardware, doesn't play the games you want to or allow you to code the stuff that is a neccesity, then move on.

If you got the cash and hardware to be bleeding edge, then go with it. Unfortunately mass market PC builders are already installing that OS by default, but the world seems to have put up with that for many years. Go change it if you can. Or buy a Mac, vote with your dollars, or non-dollars with Linux.

DirectX9 will be with us for many years to come. DX10 is a new tool for graphics developers. OpenGL is an option. Who knows what the next few years will show us? I don't really care. Someone that wants to code for Xbox and PC at the same time will go with DX, others that code for a broader range of systems will go with OpenGL, but it isn't always that simple.

Nobody's bitching about OpenAL, they ditched DirectSound and are now using OpenAL, a relatively new thing. But it's open. Creative already released a wrapper to work around it. I don't hear any screaming at Microsoft about that here.

If a developer wants to code to OpenGL they can. And Microsoft has always had bare minimal OGL support out of the box, nothing has changed, it's up to the hardware manufacturers to provide that as usual. It will come. Plus OpenGL is still (as always) in transition. Nothing new here.

Anyways, my panties aren't in a knot, because I'm happy with my W2K setup. I'll upgrade my hardware next summer when ET comes out, or maybe Conan if that comes first. I doubt I'll bother with the $200 bucks for Vista at the same time, I'm thinking of a year or two from now, but I don't know. Perhaps a 'must have app' will come along or maybe I'll have to support it from somewhere other than work. Or, maybe, just maybe, the difference between Crysis (which I'm looking forward to) DX9 and DX10 will be so absolutely amazing that I'll just shit myself if I don't have the DX10 API running in the background behind my graphics drivers. But I doubt it.

Until then, there's no gun to your head. I myself know that I can't skip this like I hopped over the 98 days or XP, but myself upgrading to Vista isn't even close to being neccessary at this point. One or two years and I'll be running Vista. Most likely dual-booting as well, but by that time I imagine my apps will be working so it should be a good migration.

Cheers

 
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59. Parental controls is the major feature Feb 3, 2007, 03:24 mOOzilla
 
Yes yes we tested games and now lets get back to more pressing features, Parental controls .. blah blah blah... parental controls ... blah blah blah...

 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fQaj31Wtko
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58. Re: No subject Feb 3, 2007, 01:06 Propagandhi
 
 
I eat pasta!
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57. Re: No subject Feb 3, 2007, 00:22 trashcan
 
If developers dont like DX 10 being left off XP why not use OpenGL instead.

 
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