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Ships Ahoy - Euro Gothic 3

JoWooD Productions (thanks Frans) has after-the-fact word that Gothic 3 shipped to European stores as planned on Friday:

It sounds amazing: Gothic 3 was released and partly sold out during the very same weekend! Yes, the RPG legend of Gothic continued on the 13th of Octobre, when the game hit the shelves at stores all over Europe. On Saturday, several shops and even whole cities announced that they were sold out - every single copy found its way to a enthusiastic gamer. No fear, restocking was ensured, so everyone can enjoy the world of Myrtana and the most exciting RPG atmosphere ever!

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44 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 1.
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44. Re: Another quest log Oct 23, 2006, 21:07 Masa
 
I think I may pass on this game for now. Going by how Creston's routing of the game, it might be wise to wait until at least until the community fixes comes out with its usual fixes.

 
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43. Re: Another quest log Oct 19, 2006, 13:22 PJ
 
You got to admit that some dialogs are extremely short but others are more than acceptable. My opinion is if you are doing a little side-quest for a NPC why do you want or need a huge drawn out dialog tree? As long as the basic info is there I am good with it. Though I have to wonder if something has been lost in translation.

If anyone here has played a European version (German or whatever) please let us know if the dialogs are also very short. It wouldn't have taken much effort to spruce up the side quest dialog with some smart-ass comments (or whatever) so the player character would feel a little more fleshed out.

On the other hand somebody was complaining about the players friends in game not having any stories to tell like previous games. Why would they tell you a story? They just got off the same boat you did. If you watched the opening video that is...

Over-all I am happy with the game but then after expecting so much out of Oblivion I learned to lower my sites quite a bit. Not to mention I am trying to be less critical and get as much pleasure from the game as possible. And hoping a few patches will sweeten the middle to end-game content.

This comment was edited on Oct 19, 13:24.
 
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42. Another quest log Oct 19, 2006, 01:29 Creston
 
Heh. Someone posted another quest log on the JoWood forum, as an example of why it fucking sucks :

(The lost farmer)

Annie: Can you please find my husband?

Me: Sure!


I mean, what the FUCKING FUCK IS THIS???

Creston

 
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41. Consolized Oct 19, 2006, 01:27 Creston
 
Turns out my feeling about the game being consolized was right on the money, as they've said on their forum that they're working on an XBOX360 version.

I'm like NostrafuckingDamus.

Creston


 
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40. Re: Tages? Oct 19, 2006, 01:24 Creston
 
I thought RAM was supposed to be getting like exponentially cheaper over the past decade, but I had a tough time finding a pair of gigabyte DDR1s for less than $200.

Well, you eventually run up against the law of diminishing returns. They still have to manufacture the ICs, the little circuitboard it comes on, the heatspreaders, they still have to pay their factory workers, pay for the facilities etc.

10 years ago you paid 200 bucks for 32MB of ram. Now you pay 200 bucks for 2 GIG of ram. All in all I'd say that it's getting pretty cheap
But I doubt it's going to get much more cheaper than this.

Creston


 
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39. Re: Tages? Oct 18, 2006, 22:59 PHJF
 
Tages isn't new, it was in games dating as far back as Moto Racer 3 in 2001 and as recently as Fahrenheit (Indigo Prophecy) just last year.

------
"Oh how awful. Did he at least die peacefully? To shreds you say. Well, how's his wife holding up? To shreds you say."
 
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Steam + PSN: PHJF
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38. Re: Tages? Oct 18, 2006, 22:49 PHJF
 
but who has 2Gig of memory in his rig

I do I was running off a hodgepodge of old PC2700 (512+256... have a 256 of PC3200 but this mobo has only two slots) and my ram was bottlenecking me when I put my 7600gt in... so... thre $200 at a couple gigs of Corsair x_x

I thought RAM was supposed to be getting like exponentially cheaper over the past decade, but I had a tough time finding a pair of gigabyte DDR1s for less than $200.

------
"Oh how awful. Did he at least die peacefully? To shreds you say. Well, how's his wife holding up? To shreds you say."
 
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Steam + PSN: PHJF
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37. Re: Tages? Oct 18, 2006, 20:53 Creston
 
Actually, I've been lurking around the official G3 forums, and it seems that the reason why everyone is getting a lot of long load times and constant hitching/freezing is that they are using a new type of copy protection. supposedly just as bad, if not worse, then "you-know-what".

It's called "Tages" and installs some software on your PC that runs while playing, hence the loading and hitching.


I KNEW I shouldn't have trusted Deep Silver to live by their promises. Another copy protection scheme just completely fucking customers up the ass.



EDIT : I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this. The TAGES driver, which fucks up your load times, is supposed to be a copy protection thing, right? Right. This means that it's supposed to check whether the DVD is in the drive, right? Right. It does this every time you load/save, right? Right.

So, load the game with the DVD in the drive, then once you are playing, remove the DVD. The game will no longer check for the DVD.
So NOT ONLY is this Tages driver fucking with your system like Starforce, BUT IT DOESN'T EVEN DO WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO FUCKING DO IN THE FIRST PLACE.

I hope there is a really really special fucking place in Hell reserved for publishers and copy protection developers.


Creston

This comment was edited on Oct 18, 21:25.
 
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36. Re: No subject Oct 18, 2006, 20:47 Creston
 
Sure there is (if this is the problem) -- time. A better PC down the track with faster and more I/O bandwidth, and voila

Duh. RIGHT NOW there is no fix for the issue, however. So a patch isn't going to fix it.

I've played some more last night (Well, a lot more, actually), the game's grown on me a bit, but there are a LOT of really irritating parts to it.

Quest log? Sucks. The quest log consists of some of the lines of dialogue you and an NPC said to each other when talking about a quest.
However, this leads to such brilliant quest logs as :

Have to kill the orcs at the farm for the rebels in reddock
You : Okay, I'll take care of the Orcs for you. Where are they?
NPC : They're in the farm. Be careful though, or they'll chop you up!
You : Okay.

That's it. WHAT THE FUCK KIND OF USELESS QUEST LOG IS THIS?

I'm currently in a mission to find a bandit named Ortega. Where is he? Beats me. My quest log says he's "In a cave in the xxx lands somewhere."
I'm currently in a cave with Ogres, Minecrawlers and even DRAGONS (!) which is the only cave in the entire area that I haven't cleared out yet. Is Ortega here? Who the fuck knows. I wouldn't THINK he'd be here, what bandit sets up in a cave where there are fucking DRAGONS walking around?
But it's the only cave in the entire area where he could be.
An NPC accompanies you on this quest, and he ofcourse says nothing.
Bah.
Oblivion's quest log got a lot of grief over too much hand holding, but it was a damn sight better than this.

Performance is really really hit and miss. I'll zip along at 30fps for awhile, then turn around and be listening to my harddisk rattle for 30 seconds while the game stutters at 0.1 fps. It's nice that you really need 2Gig of memory for this game, but who has 2Gig of memory in his rig? Most games went from 512MB to 1Gig, Piranha must have just figured "ah, fuck this shit, we'll go straight to 2 Gig."

Like CJ Parker says somewhere, there really is no rhyme or reason to the strength of monsters. A boar is a MAJOR threat to your character, probably at all levels. If that boar gets one hit in, you WILL go down (which is fucking ridiculous, it's a FUCKING BOAR! Not a Rhino!) and it will hit you, you stay down, hit you, you stay down, and then you're dead. The ONLY chance you have of winning a fight against a boar is to get the first hit in.

But then, that's pretty much how all fights go. If you get the first hit in, you'll win. If a monster gets the first hit in, you'll very likely die. This means you'll just wind up clicking like fucking mad (since there's no point to the various different attacks, and trying to block is completely useless, since it takes your character 3 seconds to go into a block stance) and there is no strategy or flow to your fight. Very very poor implementation.

There are a lot of skills, but their improvement sucks. There are 3 sword skills. Swordsman. Better Swordsman. Master Swordsman. That's it. Once you have the prereqs for the higher level skill, you can spend 5 learning points and a bunch of gold and suddenly you are a better swordsman. There is no gradual improvement like in Oblivion.

Ditto for every other skill.

Also, upping skills costs a fucking TON of gold and way too many learning points. You only get 10 per level. For example, I've found several chests for which I need the "Difficult lockpicking" skill. In order to learn that skill, I need thievery 130. My thievery is 105. So I'll need to gain 3 levels to buy the 25 points of extra thievery necessary, and then I'll have 5 points left, finally, for the lockpicking skill.

Ofcourse, by doing this, I'm totally neglecting any other skills. Is it worth it? I'm not sure.
While this may sound like a fun choice, you'll quickly feel obligated to get this skill, since half of the chests in caves are difficult locks. And you KNOW they contain the better loot...

It's sad that not more time was spent on polishing everything. There is a gem of a game in here, because there are a lot of cool things to do, and the sense of danger is incredible. That cave I'm in now, I'm completely incapable of defeating the monsters in it (an Ogre murders me in 2 blows, I don't even want to hazard a guess how soon I'd die against the Dragons), but due to the levels in the cave itself (ie, height differences), I've been able to lure monsters into certain areas where I can pepper them from above with Crossbow bolts. It takes about 10 bolts to kill an ogre (and 20 to kill a dragon ), but it's workable.

That is ofcourse a billion times better than Oblivion's useless "Monster level = your level, so you're never in danger."

But there are a lot of things in the game that just feels like it's actually FIGHTING you to stop you from enjoying yourself.

On its own, Gothic 3 is a good game, especially if you have a great rig. It feels like a souped up version of Fable. But it's no ultimate RPG, which is basically what everyone was expecting.

If I had to use one word to sum up Gothic 3, I'd say "consolized."

Which isn't true, but it sure feels like it.

Creston


 
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35. Re: No subject Oct 18, 2006, 12:20 CJ_Parker
 
The problems with G3 are not the controls or the difficulty. It's just plain sloppiness. Poor performance, retarded AI, unbalanced combat, bugginess... these are not things that you "get into."

Exactly. I'm so tired of people who go "ooohhh d00d gothix r hard u r just not sk1lledz enuff LOLZ". I've ploughed through Gothic and Gothic II + NotR repeatedly. I know what Gothic is about and what it should be like but as Jerykk said, the problems lie much deeper this time. It's obvious that no developer or tester has ever played this game from beginning to end and if I look at some of the issues then I'd have to doubt that they have even played a single minute of it. They probably finished this build 5 minutes before the deadline and just sent it off for duplication. That's how it feels and plays.

The worst thing, however, and it's something that can not be patched is that the story, the characters and the dialogue is extremely weak compared to the previous games this time.
When you met your old "friends" from Gothic I in Gothic II then everyone of them had a story to tell about what happened to them since the events in the first game.
Now you get a dialogue of 3 or 4 lines as these characters just send you on to the next quest or part of the main quest. Yawn.
Heck, they don't even have an end game rendered video sequence because they ran out of time and money. But what they did have money and time for was to hire the Bochum Symphony Orchestra for the epic soundtrack. Way to get your priorities right, PB + JoWood! Really. Way to go. Well, at least the self-stroking credits video with just a dull background wallpaper is a full 269MB and making up 10% of the game's data alone. Sheesh... Gothic III is really one big disappointment so far compared to the previous games.

----------------------------
*** Born to troll ***
 
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34. Re: No subject Oct 18, 2006, 07:58 Jerykk
 
G1 & 2 were also games that took a while to get into.

The only reasons why G1 and G2 took a while to get into was because of the learning curve. The control scheme was awkward (moreso in the first game) and the difficulty was unforgiving.

The problems with G3 are not the controls or the difficulty. It's just plain sloppiness. Poor performance, retarded AI, unbalanced combat, bugginess... these are not things that you "get into." I dearly, dearly hope that Piranha Bytes will release patches that fix these issues. If so, Gothic 3 can be saved. X3 faced a similar dilemma. It was released unfinished, but after extensive patching, the game is much better. Let us hope that Jowood will allow Piranha Bytes this luxury.


Oh, and Gothic 3 seems really sparse on sound. The previous games had distinct sounds for all the enemies. Scavengers would cluck, Shadowbeasts would snoar, Orcs would shout "CHUCHAMUNGA!!!" and then roar when you escaped their clutches... what happened? Now the only time I hear an enemy is when they are attacking me and even then, the sound effects are limited. Also, what happened to the warning sounds enemies would give off if you got too close? Goblins are completely silent now, as are most other enemies. Games need to provide audio feedback whenever you hit an enemy or they hit you and Gothic 3 seems to be lacking in this regard. It's almost as if their sound budget went entirely into the soundtrack. Unfortunately, I highly doubt any upcoming patches will add sound effects and this is sorely disappointing.


This comment was edited on Oct 18, 08:21.
 
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33. Check this out Oct 18, 2006, 06:12 Malakai
 
I just had a look at the Tages website right, and look at this gem:

Uninstalling /Reinstalling software may lead to system instability.

Well thats just fucking great isnt it? Ah im so glad i bought the EU version with this in it now.

 
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32. Glass is half empty? Oct 18, 2006, 03:24 PJ
 
I just figured out I shouldn't be able to use that damned halberd yet. And sure enough after unequipping it I couldn't equip it. I'm not sure how I got the thing equipped the first time. I think I was fighting and was disarmed (which happens a lot) and I hit the 0 button to equip a weapon but there was no weapon assigned in that slot so when the halberd came up and I started kicking ass with it I was happy just to stay alive. Now I realize it was just another bug. Ah, well. I have had a damned good time tonight just scratching the surface and although it is time to get some sleep before work I look forward to getting home tomorrow and talking to those rebels about some even more challenging tasks.

This comment was edited on Oct 18, 03:30.
 
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31. Re: No subject Oct 18, 2006, 02:57 Cutter
 
G1 & 2 were also games that took a while to get into. And they certainly got a lot better as you progessed and got some power and loot behind you. Which is how an RPG should work IMO. Talk to us again in a few days and see how you feel.


"They got a message from the Action Man, "I'm happy, hope you're happy too. I've loved all I've needed to love. Sordid details following"

- Ashes to Ashes, David Bowie
 
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"The South will boogie again!" - Disco Stu
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30. No subject Oct 18, 2006, 02:57 Flo
 
Heard it is a hardware hog, will pass. I reserve hardware hog games for my xbox 360.
Enjoying Company of heroes and dark crusade on the PC.
 
Supporter of the "Chewbacca Defense"
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29. Re: No subject Oct 18, 2006, 02:50 PJ
 
I just reloaded a save and replayed that fight at the camp. I still won but via a totally different fight (no boars) which was slightly easier. Due to the far reaching halberd and the cleave attack you can take out multiple enemies with a single power attack. It's very satisfying to see two or three opponents go flying backwards after a large red spray of blood gushes from each body. Too bad there was no dismembered body part animations put in.

 
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28. No subject Oct 18, 2006, 02:33 Icewind
 
I have leveled several times but not used any points to better my character yet I just took out a camp of three bandits and as I began my attack two boars joined me. The key to my victory? For one I had a halberd. I killed the first bandit in two hits. I then turned on the closest boar took him out in three hits. After that the second boar went down in two with help from the bandits who I quickly dispatched in a couple hits.

Sounds just like G1 and 2. As a veteran of both, I can tell you that (and you probably already know this) the only real way to win a fight is to exploit the game's rules whenever possible. You can win 99% of the time against *any* enemy in gothic 1 or 2 by simply swinging your sword during the start of an enemy's attack animation. Feel like killing a dragon snapper at level 5? Just attack when his head bobs forward. Easy crits.

Glad to see you like the game. I was going to get the UK version, but figured I'd hold off and get the (presumably patched) US version next month. Sounds like a true sequel!

 
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27. The glass half full? Oct 18, 2006, 02:06 PJ
 
After playing for several hours I see the diamond in the rough that this game will become if give an opportunity. The previous game was that way for me also. It took a while to break the mold I had created in my mind about how things should be. I never finished the first one and I doubt I will finish this game since it is four times the land mass... but I am sure I will enjoy most if not all of it. There will be some times I will yell out "WTF" and my wife comes in and tells me I'm mental but that is a good thing. (?) I think.

Yeah, this is not Oblivion... but then quite a few would say thank God for that. And don't get me wrong I enjoyed Oblivion for what it was and have yet to retry it with the mods that make it better. But comparing these two games is like apples and oranges to me. Yeah, both are fruit, both are round, but one is a whole lot sweeter than the other. Which one you prefer is a matter of taste.

My opinion is that after playing G3 for a reasonable amount of time I will have enjoyed both... but G3 will ultimately be the better game for me. Just from the few hours I have put into it and the huge amount or time I spent playing G2.

Why, you might ask would I say something so different than most first impressions?

I have leveled several times but not used any points to better my character yet I just took out a camp of three bandits and as I began my attack two boars joined me. The key to my victory? For one I had a halberd. I killed the first bandit in two hits. I then turned on the closest boar took him out in three hits. After that the second boar went down in two with help from the bandits who I quickly dispatched in a couple hits.

It was all in the timing. Just like G2 the controls are rough (though this time around they are much more intuitive) yet after getting a feel for them the game becomes a pleasure to play. I used a lot of weak quick attacks but I didn't spam the enemies. You can if you choose but choosing not to makes a world of difference. All games have exploits but they aren't forcing you to use them. Yeah, this is a bit different but you get the point. And I will agree the balance seems a bit off at times but that is something they are working on fixing in a patch, hopefully soon. Just like the mod makers did for Oblivion.

Was that encounter too easy? Maybe. But then I am a level one in the early part of the game. I am sure if I left the area I would get the beat down pretty quick someplace else. That is the one thing vanilla Oblivion never had... the ever present possibility of death. Yeah, on occasion you could die if you did something really stupid. But it was even easier than G3 has been these last few hours. And remember Oblivion remained that way through the entire game. I know from past experience G3 will not be anything like that.

As far my system and the video glitches... I assume I already had the AMD Dual Core Optimizer installed because it didn't change much if anything when I installed it. I am 90% certain I had at the very least an older version of the optimizer installed.

These may be early impressions and nobody will argue that the game is a bit rough and a resource hog but if you are willing to enjoy it for what it is, a European RPG, you just might enjoy it even in this pushed-out-the-door-too-early state.

 
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26. Tages? Oct 18, 2006, 01:27 Icewind
 
Actually, I've been lurking around the official G3 forums, and it seems that the reason why everyone is getting a lot of long load times and constant hitching/freezing is that they are using a new type of copy protection. supposedly just as bad, if not worse, then "you-know-what".

It's called "Tages" and installs some software on your PC that runs while playing, hence the loading and hitching.

Though, according to what I've read, the american version will use SecurRom, which at least only buzzes the drive at the start of the load. (Oblivion used it, right? You could take the DVD out while playing and it would still work.

Info about it here:

http://forum.jowood.com/showthread.php?t=124952&page=2

 
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25. Re: 2GB is not enough? Oct 18, 2006, 00:00 Pryrates
 
the secret ist, first hit wins a combat in gothic3. the figthing system is imho crap, you only need to spam fast attacks and your opponent wont stand a chance against you (the arena fights are a joke with it). some players killed a dragon with this fighting system on lvl 5 or 6 just with spamming fast, weak attacks...

 
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