79 Replies. 4 pages. Viewing page 1.
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| 79. |
Re: Keep whining about cost... |
May 4, 2006, 17:59 |
JeZZyBaLL |
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| At least your predictable Riley. |
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| You put de lime in de coco-nut, you shake it all up; you put de lime in de coco-nut it make you feel bettah..... |
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| 78. |
Re: Keep whining about cost... |
May 4, 2006, 10:13 |
Riley Pizt |
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Someone still want to whine about thier <$20 price tag? Judge the value when they actually deliver the goods. Lots of terrific game features get mentioned in interviews that never actually make it into a game or are far less impressive than described.
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| 77. |
Re: movie analogy |
May 4, 2006, 10:09 |
Riley Pizt |
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It's not completely implausible. It is far more likely that it won't happen especially since the EULA obviates Valve's legal obligation to do it.
wouldn't imagine it all that hard to make a legal provision to allow the exception of the thousands of people who purchased the game via Steam to still have access It's not a question of it being difficult. It's a question of who would have the financial interest to spend the money on it and the legal obligation to do so. The answer is no one.
The HL1 Anthology costs $15. Go to www.steampowered.com and check it. It was $20 before, but yes, now it is $15. HOWEVER, it no longer includes Half-Life deathmatch and Ricochet which Valve has moved to the Counterstrike Anthology for another $20. So, yet again rather than actually lower the price Valve simply scales back the offering. I don't call getting less for less a baseless aspect, and my original point that you would have to buy both compilations to get the full multiplayer functionality Valve offered for free with the Vivendi retail Half-Life 1 package is still valid.
This comment was edited on May 25, 18:45. |
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| 76. |
Keep whining about cost... |
May 4, 2006, 07:06 |
JeZZyBaLL |
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Read on....
From Ritual Entertainment & Sin Episodes Official Site
"Titled Arena Mode, the new game mode pits players against foes driven by the game's Personal Challenge system in levels built just for this mode - it's really Geometry Wars in FPS form and great fun! Oh, did I mention the Levelord is making maps for it?
http://www.sinepisodes.com/index.php?blog
"...Episodic Content combined with Digital Distribution gives us all kinds of freedoms; allowing us to innovate and quickly generate new content. Arena Mode is an example of this, helping us illustrate Ritual's commitment to our community, and showing off our vision of what episodic gaming can really be. Shortly after Emergence is released, we'll be doing an update – giving everyone a chance to play with this new mode, and adding staggering amount of competitive replayability to the game.
Also, as I'm already talking about the future, multiplayer is coming. I don't want to go into to in too much detail, but the speculations and chatter about Co-Op are actually well founded. We're absolutely investigating different Co-Op options, and Arena Mode is providing a foundation for some of our ideas. ...
much much more....
Someone still want to whine about thier <$20 price tag?
Ever since I've been a fan from the SiN demo..these guys deliver. |
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| You put de lime in de coco-nut, you shake it all up; you put de lime in de coco-nut it make you feel bettah..... |
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| 75. |
Re: movie analogy |
May 4, 2006, 01:19 |
Masa |
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And it's pretty safe to say they'll patch the games to be free when they abandon them. No one will want the fruits of the labor to die.
That is naivete in the extreme.
It's not completely implausible. Especially if Steam were to go down the drain and thousands of people weren't able to access their bought games, I could see something being done to unwed HL from Steam. Digital distribution is a rather new way of publishing games and I think particular consideration would be given to paying customers if the sytem tanked.
The bottom line is that there most likely won't be a legal solution available to run Steam games if Valve disappears or (more likely) stops offering a particular game via Steam.
Oh, I don't know. I wouldn't imagine it all that hard to make a legal provision to allow the exception of the thousands of people who purchased the game via Steam to still have access.
and it's anthology offering for $20 doesn't include Counterstrike which is an additional $20.
The HL1 Anthology costs $15. Go to www.steampowered.com and check it. Of course you'll argue some baseless aspect of it so I urge you to actually see it for yourself.
This comment was edited on May 4, 02:47. |
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| 74. |
Re: movie analogy |
May 3, 2006, 17:44 |
Riley Pizt |
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Or the many, many small independant devs that have released source code. Many? I can't think of that many developers that have released source code to their old games. More to the point though, I can't think of any that are Valve's size which have done that after being acquired or dissolving.
The bottom line is that there most likely won't be a legal solution available to run Steam games if Valve disappears or (more likely) stops offering a particular game via Steam. And, in that case if you are going to break the law then, you might as well break the law now and save yourself from the hassles of Steam.
This comment was edited on May 3, 17:47. |
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| 73. |
Re: movie analogy |
May 3, 2006, 17:39 |
Beamer |
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I can't think of a single one, and I can think of at least one game from Acclaim which won't run on Windows XP due to its copy-protection. Different issues.
I'd make this more analagous to the several MMORPGs that have released all their tools after going free. Or the many, many small independant devs that have released source code.
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Doomriders: the first new band worth a signature - http://www.deathwishinc.com/ |
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| 72. |
Re: movie analogy |
May 3, 2006, 17:21 |
Riley Pizt |
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And it's pretty safe to say they'll patch the games to be free when they abandon them. No one will want the fruits of the labor to die. That is naivete in the extreme. First, it is far more likely that Valve will be acquired by a large publisher or media company. And, if that happens, it is almost a certainty that its old properties will never be freely released to the public or have their protections removed. Second, when most companies dissolve, they have their assets sold off to the highest bidder. The former principals at Valve will most likely not be legally able to release files to remove the copy-protection from its former games when that happens. Finally, of all of the game developers and publishers which have bitten the dust such as Acclaim, 3DO, Interplay, etc., name one which released files for its games to remove the copy-protection. I can't think of a single one, and I can think of at least one game from Acclaim which won't run on Windows XP due to its copy-protection.
There are still DOS games out there that can't be played, Every DOS game can be played on the hardware which ran it at the time of release. That is in no way analogous to Steam which is a network infrastructure which enables its games to run. When that infrastructure fails or disappears completely, Steam games will be no longer usable even if a customer still has working PC hardware and an operating system which ran it before like with DOS games.
This comment was edited on May 3, 17:40. |
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| 71. |
Re: movie analogy |
May 3, 2006, 16:35 |
Beamer |
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Valve WILL go out of business- it is inevitable. I want to play the games any time I want to.
And it's pretty safe to say they'll patch the games to be free when they abandon them. No one will want the fruits of the labor to die.
Of course, by that time technology might make all of this moot, anyway. There are still DOS games out there that can't be played, and don't get me started on some of the old Glide programs and how well they run now.
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Doomriders: the first new band worth a signature - http://www.deathwishinc.com/ |
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| 70. |
Re: movie analogy |
May 3, 2006, 14:12 |
friedram |
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So far Steam has benefited the developer a million times more than the consumer - and that is why I am not happy.
Anything that limits my ability to install and play the game on a non-internet hookedup computer is evil.
Exactly- I want to play the game on my terms- Valve WILL go out of business- it is inevitable. I want to play the games any time I want to.
I'm just going to buy the Valve games for the X-Box 360 from now on. My consoles are still going strong (all the way back to my NES).
This comment was edited on May 3, 14:13. |
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| 69. |
Re: No subject |
May 2, 2006, 15:44 |
MindTrigger |
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Consumers are better off ordering the CD media retail. Easier and simpler.
Says you. I love getting my software from online distribution. I do prefer a service like Direct2Drive from the Game Spy people rather than Steam though. Steam doesn't bother me. I turn it off when I don't need it like any other program.
Where I live it can be a real bitch to find games when you want them. Since I hate waiting for stuff to ship snail mail, downloads are the way to go for me.
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BF2 Player Name: "MindTrigger"
"Don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold." -Bob Marley |
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He cut the possum's face off then cut around the eye socket. In the center of the belt buckle, where the possum's eye would be, he has placed a small piece of wood from his old '52 Ford's home made railroad tie bumper. Damn, he misses that truck. |
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| 68. |
No subject |
May 2, 2006, 12:13 |
dryden555 |
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Time has shown that Steam only benefits Valve -- they get $$ they dont have to share with retail stores. That's fine for them but for the consumer, steam has done nothing for me since I originally installed HL2 as soon as that game came out 2 years ago!
Consumers are better off ordering the CD media retail. Easier and simpler.
This comment was edited on May 2, 12:14. |
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| 67. |
Re: No subject |
Apr 30, 2006, 10:39 |
Riley Pizt |
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I spent $60 plus taxes and crap to pre-order HL2 way back when on Steam. I got all of Valves back catalogue (already owned most of it though), HL2, CSS, HL2DM, DoD SOurce, Lost Coast, Blue Shift, HL Source, more CSS and DoD maps, more models, and HDR and Bloom lighting. For the last year and a half I've gotten more hours of playtime than I can begin to guess for my $60. The point is that you could have paid less with the traditional retail model. Steam is more expensive especially for a longer period of time than competition amongst sellers at retail provides.
I seem to recall you and many others saying $60 was a ripoff for the Steam Silver package. You recall incorrectly as I never commented on that. However, compared to what you paid and what you got at the time of purchase, those who purchased a retail version of Half-Life 2 for $40 and less got a better deal especially if they already owned the Half-Life 1 games or bought them bundled together at retail for $10 as I did.
ALL retail games eventually get priced down to clear...take note...TO CLEAR. Once they are gone, they are gone. The problem is that on Steam they never get such a discount.
As for the pricing on Ricochet, and everything else being split up...those prices are for people that want to play the game that dont own HL, or HL2, or any other packages and they dont have to, they can still buy it for $10 without buying anything else, which is a pretty good deal...as long as you dont want to buy anything else. LOL! $10 for just Richochet is a rip-off. You can find an old Vivendi retail version of Half-Life on ebay or an online retailer for $10 or less which will get you all of Half-Life 1's multiplayer including Counterstrike. To get all that on Steam you would have to pay at least $40 because Valve's retail Half-Life offering doesn't include any the multiplayer games and it's anthology offering for $20 doesn't include Counterstrike which is an additional $20.
And they still have package deals...Source Premier Pack ($59.99), Valve Complete Pack ($79.99), among other packages they have for Counter-Strike and Half Life, etc. That is the problem in a nutshell. Valve wants you to pay at least $50 or $60 and has skewed its pricing and offerings so that you have to pay that to get what you could formerly get for $10 or $20.
If you can find a retail box, and dont want to order on Steam...nobody is stopping you, have at it and enjoy. Valve has stated that they will continue to release their products in Retail outlets, and have no plans to change that, so everybody gets what they want. Actually customers don't get what they want because Valve's retail offerings today cost more or offer less than what the Vivendi retail ones did. For example, Valve's Half-Life 1 offering for $10 comes with no multiplayer. For multiplayer you must pay at least $10, $20. or more depending upon what you want. Vivendi's Half-Life 1 for $10 or less gets you everything including Counterstrike. In addition, all of Valve's retail offerings still require Steam.
nobody actually cares about your fabricated propaganda. You cared enough to respond (and foolishly so) yet again.
This comment was edited on Apr 30, 10:49. |
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| 66. |
Re: No subject |
Apr 29, 2006, 21:10 |
Krovven |
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For example, last Christmas three different retail chains had the Vivendi boxed version of Half-Life 2 for $19.99, and that retail SKU also entitled the customer to Counterstrike Source and Half-Life 2 Deathmatch whereas Valve's offering on Steam was still $50. Even today Valve wants more for its games on Steam than they can be had at retail. Hell, Richochet is $9.95 on Steam.
Oh for fuck sakes, not this tired old incorrect arguement again?
This past Christmas was over a year since the original released date of HL2...of course new buyers can find it in discount bins for cheaper, once they are gone, they are gone. I spent $60 plus taxes and crap to pre-order HL2 way back when on Steam. I got all of Valves back catalogue (already owned most of it though), HL2, CSS, HL2DM, DoD SOurce, Lost Coast, Blue Shift, HL Source, more CSS and DoD maps, more models, and HDR and Bloom lighting. For the last year and a half I've gotten more hours of playtime than I can begin to guess for my $60. I seem to recall you and many others saying $60 was a ripoff for the Steam Silver package...Riley being a dumbass as per usual.
To buy an old Vivendi HL2 box would get them HL2, CSS, HL2DM, Lost Coast and the new content for CSS. Pretty damn good for $20, but they also havent been enjoying it for the last 1.5 years. But I have news for you...ALL retail games eventually get priced down to clear...take note...TO CLEAR. Once they are gone, they are gone.
As for the pricing on Ricochet, and everything else being split up...those prices are for people that want to play the game that dont own HL, or HL2, or any other packages and they dont have to, they can still buy it for $10 without buying anything else, which is a pretty good deal...as long as you dont want to buy anything else.
And they still have package deals...Source Premier Pack ($59.99), Valve Complete Pack ($79.99), among other packages they have for Counter-Strike and Half Life, etc.
If you can find a retail box, and dont want to order on Steam...nobody is stopping you, have at it and enjoy. Valve has stated that they will continue to release their products in Retail outlets, and have no plans to change that, so everybody gets what they want.
So just STFU already about how much you hate Steam, because nobody actually cares about your fabricated propaganda. Valve is a company, and are there to make money from their products...just like everyone else in this world. If at such time they change their pricing structure to something I do not like, I will express myself by not opening my wallet...not whining like a little baby on Blues News forums for 2 years (points at Riley).
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Currently playing Oblivion and Counter-Strike Source. |
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| 65. |
Re: No subject |
Apr 29, 2006, 18:53 |
Riley Pizt |
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So you don't consider the fact that you can download it instead of have to trudge out to a retail outlet and pay (what amounts to) an elevated price a pro?
Maybe in the US it's different It is different in the U.S. With all of the competition amongst retailers and online sellers, prices for games are cheaper at retail than on Steam. For example, last Christmas three different retail chains had the Vivendi boxed version of Half-Life 2 for $19.99, and that retail SKU also entitled the customer to Counterstrike Source and Half-Life 2 Deathmatch whereas Valve's offering on Steam was still $50. Even today Valve wants more for its games on Steam than they can be had at retail. Hell, Richochet is $9.95 on Steam.
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| 64. |
Re: No subject |
Apr 29, 2006, 10:45 |
Optimaximal |
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This is also a moot point as it defeats the main and really only benefit of digital distribution. So you don't consider the fact that you can download it instead of have to trudge out to a retail outlet and pay (what amounts to) an elevated price a pro?
Maybe in the US it's different but Emergence will probably retail for £24.99-£29.99 (once VAT has been added) at places like GAME and HMV here in the UK. Add spiraling petrol costs & parking fees (or public transport if you're greener) plus the hustle and bustle of my nations overcrowded streets and all of a sudden, buying it for £12 over Steam sounds a helluva lot better!
This comment was edited on Apr 29, 10:50. |
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| 63. |
Re: No subject |
Apr 28, 2006, 13:39 |
Tumbler |
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we can make those changes while the discs are being replicated and the non-changing files are being preloaded via digital distribution. Once the user installs the disc, or unlocks the digital download via Steam, they only have to wait to download the executable and some textfiles for localization (small files),
I think this issue is kind of tough to swallow for supportes or steam and SIN. It sounds like folks were looking forward to having a game within days of "going gold" as it should be in a playable state.
What you are saying is it doesn't matter if the game is in a playable state when it goes gold, as long as we've patched it and it's working when they sign into steam on release day .
Hope you make that release date with the patch...
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VGfive.com - Game Trading site (Steam codes too!)
Kickstarter "Game Developer"! |
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| 62. |
Re: No subject |
Apr 28, 2006, 12:25 |
Riley Pizt |
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It is? Because you said so? No, dumbass. Ritual said so in that blog post, but apparently you are too lazy or illiterate to read it.
I know for a fact that QA testing and development continues on games after a product goes gold, Again this is entirely a moot point. The bottom line is almost all games are playable out of the box. Sure they get patched later if needed, but they are playable out of the box. If Sin is "gold" then it is ready to be played. If it is ready to be played then it should be playable on Steam right now.
Majority of the time publishers are going to require simultaneous release of games electronically and in retail, if not simultaneously then retail first. This is also a moot point as it defeats the main and really only benefit of digital distribution. Of course if you could read, you would have seen that I already mentioned this in my post below.
This comment was edited on Apr 28, 13:06. |
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| 61. |
Re: Some responses |
Apr 28, 2006, 12:10 |
Riley Pizt |
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we can make those changes while the discs are being replicated and the non-changing files are being preloaded via digital distribution. Once the user installs the disc, or unlocks the digital download via Steam, they only have to wait to download the executable and some textfiles for localization (small files), The bottom line is that what is on the physical disc could be downloaded right now. However what you are saying is that your company is shipping a game on physical media which cannot be played as it is shipped because it is not complete. It's nice to see that your company is repeating its past mistakes.
In the traditional non-digital model, the release would be pushed out even later since all those final elements mentioned above would have to be rolled into the final "gold disc." Yes but at least customers would have something they could play immediately upon opening the box without needing to download anything else or wait for your company's approval to play the game. And they would be able to play the game anywhere on any PC they own in theoretical perpetuity without needing anything else or authorization.
Digital is faster, more convenient, and cheaper (see below.) Digital may be in some cases, but Steam is NOT any of those, and history has proven it time and time again. I could write volumes to detail this (and have done so), but the short of it is that it took me 18 hours to download all of Half-Life 2 whereas it would take me less than 18 minutes to drive to a store a back to buy a game on a physical disc. As for being cheaper, a single source of distribution is never cheaper than competition amongsts sellers, but in case you don't believe that all you have to know is Richochet is $9.95 on Steam. Enough said.
This comment was edited on Apr 28, 12:18. |
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| 60. |
Re: Paradoxical Zeph Response !!! |
Apr 28, 2006, 11:57 |
Hal9000 |
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Because I hate this episodic idea and I haven't even gone to their website or looked at any screenshots or anything at all.
As they say on the internet, LOLLERS.
Here's a link, it's easy: http://www.sinepisodes.com
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79 Replies. 4 pages. Viewing page 1.
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