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On the Oblivion Delay

The Elder Scrolls Forums (thanks Voodoo Extreme) has more on the recently revealed delay for Elder's Scroll IV: Oblivion (story). Here's the post from Bethesda Softworks' Pete Hines:

So Todd and I were talking last night and decided that we, or I, should post something on the forums to try and bring fans up-to-speed on what's up. So here goes.

In short, the game is coming out in early 2006 because it isn't done yet. We still have things that need to be done before the game is released. So we continue to optimize, test, balance, etc. We've already gone way beyond what we did in any game previously in playtesting and balancing this game. Way beyond. But there is work that needs to be done and so development continues to go on pretty much around the clock. We will not put out a more specific date until we are certain we will be ready then. Like system specs, we aren't fans of putting out info that changes later on and only confuses or annoys our fans.

We have a number of site updates planned between now and the game's release that we hope to do on a regular basis each week. We'll do the best we can to make it every week, but understand that sometimes PR/marketing stuff gets in the way of game development and so it has to get set aside sometimes for the good of the game (and the people making it). We'll be updating the Codex in stages, adding new concept art, screens, etc. in the coming weeks and months. We're open to doing another fan interview in the coming weeks as well to let you ask what it is you think we aren't telling you. In short, we aren't holding out on you, we just don't want to be done telling you about the game before it comes out.

We appreciate your patience and continued support and ensure you that your dedication will be rewarded with what we think is the best RPG you've ever played.

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73 Replies. 4 pages. Viewing page 1.
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73. Re: No subject Nov 7, 2005, 22:10 nin
 
Be lovely to see though.. (the picture, not the mutiny.. Unless it was a picture about the mutiny, of course)


I'm thinking Return of the King, myself...and maybe the Death Star trence run.





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GW: Nilaar Madalla, lvl 20 R/Mo / Tolyl Nor, lvl 20 E/Mo / Xylos Gath, lvl 13 W/Mo

Don't look at me that way. It was An Honest Mistake. http://www.thebravery.com/
 
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72. Re: No subject Nov 7, 2005, 21:40 MeatForce
 

Super Hi-Vision boasts an eye-popping 7680 x 4320 pixel resolution.

Yikes! I'd hate to think of the cost and effort involved in producing content at those resolutions! 1080 is bad enough; the art departments would mutiny



Be lovely to see though.. (the picture, not the mutiny.. Unless it was a picture about the mutiny, of course)

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I'm not even angry. I'm being so sincere right now, even though you broke my heart and killed me.
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71. Re: No subject Nov 7, 2005, 20:47 nin
 
You wanna talk fancy tvs? Check this out:

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/


Here's a bit of news some of you might find interesting. You think HDTV is cool? We'll, you've seen nothing yet. According to the EETimes, the Japan Broadcast Corporation (NHK) has been testing a new Super Hi-Vision format. The idea is to create a television format so good, that it can convey the illusion of reality over broadcast video - literally it's like looking out a window.

No big deal there right? Pretty lofty goals? But it goes on:

Super Hi-Vision boasts an eye-popping 7680 x 4320 pixel resolution. By comparison, regular TV offers 704 x 480 resolution, and new HDTV tops out at 1920 x 1080 (1080p). We haven't even fully upgraded to high-definition yet and we're ALREADY behind. D'oh!

How's THAT for high res?!


--------------------------------------------------------------
GW: Nilaar Madalla, lvl 20 R/Mo / Tolyl Nor, lvl 20 E/Mo / Xylos Gath, lvl 13 W/Mo

Don't look at me that way. It was An Honest Mistake. http://www.thebravery.com/
 
http://www.nin.com/pub/tension/
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70. Re: No subject Nov 7, 2005, 20:43 Cabezone
 
Well I decided to swing by a Best buy on the way home to check out some COD2 Xbox360 action. I gotta say it looks about the same to me as it does playing on my 7800GTX. The demo was at 720p, which is very colse to the 1280x800 I play at, in order to keep the framerate consistantly above 40 with vsync on. The framrate never seemed to dip below 30 at any point on the 360. I've played COD2 on a 6800GT and the framerate is not nearly as consistant. The only thing that stood out was the lack of AF.

From personal experience I'm going to have to stand by my statement that you need a 7800GTX and a AMD X2 to equal the 360. I don't care what the specs are, what matters is the end result and the end result has it performing close to a 7800GTX.

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69. Re: No subject Nov 7, 2005, 20:34 MeatForce
 

TV doesn't need as high resolution to look as good as a PC CRT or LCD

TV simply does not look as good as a computer monitor. One day it might, but for now it really doesn't. And high-end computer displays will always manage to represent more colors than a TV (at least as far as the foreseeable 'HD' future goes).


Just about any computer monitor these days will represent the full sRGB color-space without any real difficulties. The very best CRT on the market can represent all of the Adobe (1998) color-space (which is enormous). In any case, a good-to-high-end CRT or LCD monitor these days will easily exceed sRGB though even if they can't represent all the colors in Adobe (1998).

TV meanwhile uses the SMPTE-C color-space, which is smaller than sRGB by a good amount, and tiny compared to something like Adobe (Keep in mind that the human eye can still out-perceive all of them, so it should go without saying that you want your display to represent the widest color gamut possible).

But it's expensive to build displays that can represent all those colors (the Adobe (1998) gamut CRT I mentioned is ~$5000), so TV manufacturers are happy just to hit SMPTE-C if they can and call it a day. I wouldn't be surprised if there are a substantial number of sets out there that can't even give you all of SMPTE-C (and I'm just going to try to ignore the fact that most people's sets aren't properly calibrated by a long-shot)..

HD is supposed to fix this, because the BT.709 space effectively is sRGB, but 709 has yet to be adopted by anyone as an official (working) broadcast standard, AFAIK.

Plus it is becoming apparent that many display manufacturers simply aren't supporting it in their new TVs yet (why bother, when you've already got the SMPTE-C figured out nicely and nobody's broadcasting it anyway?).

If you go out right now and buy a new TV, there's a chance it be 709 compliant and thus will match a decent computer display - especially if you buy a small one where there is a good chance they'll just spec. the same panel for the TV as for the monitor..

But it's a real crap-shoot right now, and the fact remains that the high-end computer displays are always going to be pushing for that Adobe (1998) holy grail, so they'll always give you a better picture (NEC-Mitsubishi has either just announced production of a breakthrough product, or they will be any day now).


I'm pretty sure you can plug a 360 into a computer monitor though, so most people who buy one should be able to get a great picture even if they don't own an HDTV

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GW: Tashen Boke [R/Me]; Rosti The Ninja [Mo/R]; Gort Grimley [W/Ne]
 
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I'm not even angry. I'm being so sincere right now, even though you broke my heart and killed me.
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68. Re: No subject Nov 7, 2005, 20:17 nin
 
The article that mentioned this keyboard noted that it is a first party peripheral instead of 3rd party unsupported stuff for the xbox that is currently out. I'm expecting MS to support a keyboard attachment in most games soon, that will be nice, and hopefully build in a web interface as well.


Dreamcast had that, too.

--------------------------------------------------------------
GW: Nilaar Madalla, lvl 20 R/Mo / Tolyl Nor, lvl 20 E/Mo / Xylos Gath, lvl 13 W/Mo

Don't look at me that way. It was An Honest Mistake. http://www.thebravery.com/
 
http://www.nin.com/pub/tension/
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67. Re: No subject Nov 7, 2005, 19:57 Tumbler
 
The article that mentioned this keyboard noted that it is a first party peripheral instead of 3rd party unsupported stuff for the xbox that is currently out. I'm expecting MS to support a keyboard attachment in most games soon, that will be nice, and hopefully build in a web interface as well.

Where is my Xbox 360!?!
 
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66. Re: No subject Nov 7, 2005, 19:47 nin
 
I hear there is a keyboard in the makings for the Xbox 360 controller. Pretty soon consolers will be able to post on these boards with ease. Won't that be interesting.

You can get adapters for the current exbox right now...



--------------------------------------------------------------
GW: Nilaar Madalla, lvl 20 R/Mo / Tolyl Nor, lvl 20 E/Mo / Xylos Gath, lvl 13 W/Mo

Don't look at me that way. It was An Honest Mistake. http://www.thebravery.com/
 
http://www.nin.com/pub/tension/
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65. Re: No subject Nov 7, 2005, 19:38 Tumbler
 
I hear there is a keyboard in the makings for the Xbox 360 controller. Pretty soon consolers will be able to post on these boards with ease. Won't that be interesting.

Computers are pretty cheap, but I do doubt you could build a new computer to match a Gamecube + game + 2 controllers for $100.
And if you could you still couldn't play PS2,xbox, or gamecube games on it could you?

Where is my Xbox 360!?!
This comment was edited on Nov 7, 19:39.
 
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64. Re: No subject Nov 7, 2005, 19:38 Orogogus
 
I thought his question was valid. You posted a computer setup that cost $300 now, and then compared it to a PS2/Xbox/Gamecube, which do cost less than $300. Computers are pretty cheap, but I do doubt you could build a new computer to match a Gamecube + game + 2 controllers for $100.

 
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63. Re: No subject Nov 7, 2005, 19:02 Zathrus
 
So what's the point of saying you can exceed the specs of current consoles by spending much more than they cost?

Yes, because clearly there's absolutely no inherent value in a PC over a console. You're posting this from a console, right?

Then we could go into the number of quality free or low cost games available on the PC, since you appear to be centered purely on games.

 
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62. Re: No subject Nov 7, 2005, 18:31 Tom
 
people who spout off on things they have no clue about, or can't even be bothered to make a simple calculation or form a logical train of thought about

the fiction you believe

Christ. Someone has really no idea about how technology works.

You haven't the faintest clue

I call calling bollocks on an obvious untruth to be as civil as I can get

People like you are the reason that places like this are so devoid of intelligent conversation.

Goodbye.

 
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61. Re: No subject Nov 7, 2005, 18:04 MacD
 
First off, I call calling bollocks on an obvious untruth to be as civil as I can get. I have no time for people who spout off on things they have no clue about, or can't even be bothered to make a simple calculation or form a logical train of thought about. I go for civility unadorned by eufemisms. If you are wrong, I tell you, and might even point you in the direction to find facts instead of the fiction you believe, as I would hope anyone would do to me. Anything else makes me a politician.

"In my opinion, it's all about perception and the end result"

Which, objectively, is wrong. Things like picture quality are not objective, not in the context we're talking about. It does reduce to simple numbers. It is not subjective in any way (except for prefference...but we're not talking about that here...and the preference would be over an obviously lesser device, like saying how much you prefer black and white or VHS over betamax [but then again, that is better in some cases]).

"but they mean little if they don't make a significant enough difference in practice"

Christ. Someone has really no idea about how technology works. This is just too big for me to explain. I could go on about how standards were made, and how standards in different industries (software, car manufacturor, metalworking) differ in how they are made and work in practice, but I'm too lazy. I already have a good understanding in some and basic understanding in others; you go google.

"Also, standards and the devices that implement them evolve, by the way. Do you think TVs of today are the same as the ones made decades ago?"

And this is exactly what I mean. You haven't the faintest clue. Just go google something like 'evolution of NTSC standard'. You'll find out that tv's are essentially the same as when they introduced the NTSC standard, and haven't evolved in decades (which is why HDTV is being pushed).

And, again, I think pointing out someone is wrong is not uncivil.

As for price...the rest of the thread has already covered this pretty much. All I need is a 6800 and a p2.4-3.0. Froogle that.

"There's no denying that the XBox 360 gives you tremendous hardware for the money"

As you have read, there are many reasons to deny that. And it's not just subjective (as you like it), but objective, numbers based arguments. Gimme an old-ish pc, and for much less than an xbox360, I can get the same power. Especially in three months, when the x360's artificial shortage might run out.

"Given this, some people are going to decide it's easier and cheaper for them to just buy the console than to get their computer up to speed. Do you dispute this line of reasoning?"

Oh, great. I love it how these things go from 'xbox360 is cheaper and gives people more bang for the buck' to what it is now.
Anyway, that line I don't have anything against. VHS won from betamax, too, and the latter was the technically better system, so I won't be surprised at all if people fall for that bogus argument. What we're saying is that it is an untrue point. People might decide "it's easier and cheaper for them to just buy the console than to get their computer up to speed", but they'd be wrong.

 
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60. Re: No subject Nov 7, 2005, 16:27 Tom
 
You're the one confusing my statements, not me. I never said that I could match the 360's capabilities in $300. I specifically stated I could exceed current consoles. Note that the 360 is not a current console.

Last I checked, a PS2 doesn't go for $300. So what's the point of saying you can exceed the specs of current consoles by spending much more than they cost?

 
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59. Re: No subject Nov 7, 2005, 16:12 Zathrus
 
Dude, we're talking Xbox 360 here, not a PS2

You're the one confusing my statements, not me. I never said that I could match the 360's capabilities in $300. I specifically stated I could exceed current consoles. Note that the 360 is not a current console.

In order to do that you need a A64 X2 and at least a 7800GT, probably a 7800gtx.

And I already called bullshit on that one. You're simply wrong. Go back and read my original post.

I can tell that just by looking at the screenshots of the upcoming 360 games, thats what it would require to get over 30fps with max setting at the high def resolutions.

Wow, you're able to determine all of that from a screenshot? Including the FPS from rendering that scene? Amazing!

Oh, and a hint -- the highest resolution textures and other features in the PC version will vastly outstrip those available on the Xbox360. Most likely you'd have to reduce settings on the PC version to "medium" or "low" and reduce the draw distance to get an equivalent graphics comparison. Set everything to high and sure you'll need a hefty system -- but you're comparing (as you seem to like saying) apples and oranges at that point.

 
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58. Re: No subject Nov 7, 2005, 16:02 Cabezone
 
Dude, we're talking Xbox 360 here, not a PS2. Oblivion isn't even coming out for the last gen consoles. A 2ghz and GF3 doesn't even touch the 360. We're not talking about just being able to load the game and play a slideshow. We're talking about getting the same performance with the same graphics settings as the 360. In order to do that you need a A64 X2 and at least a 7800GT, probably a 7800gtx. I can tell that just by looking at the screenshots of the upcoming 360 games, thats what it would require to get over 30fps with max setting at the high def resolutions.

"We're not the same, I'm an American, you're a sick a--hole." - William 'D-Fens' Foster
 
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57. Re: No subject Nov 7, 2005, 15:55 Zathrus
 
You can't just compare specs from console to PC

You can if you have a clue about how the hardware works. I do.

Consoles run a lot more efficient with the hardware that they have.

Yes, and they generally have lower overhead in the "OS" realm, but this doesn't make up for the rather massive gap in technology between what's inside a console and what's available in the mass market. The Xbox360 core was taped out roughly a year ago, and the Cell was taped out last May. Even if you presume that they epitomized the absolute most advanced technology available at those times (which they didn't), then you also have to realize that the general purpose CPU market has moved on past that point in time.

fully multiple threaded(not exactly sure how to say that)

Multithreaded or multi-threaded. Depends on your proclivity for dashes.

Bethesda themselves have said it runs better on a dual core sytem, because of the work they've done with the Xbox.

Better? Sure. But that's meaningless. It'll run "better" on the fastest CPU and GPU available at release time, but that doesn't mean a far less capable system isn't capable of running it. And I'll happily bet that an Athlon or P4 system will run it as well (or better than) an Xbox.

What exactly are you buying with those 300 dollars?

How much do you think a ~2 GHz Athlon/P3 w/ 256MB memory, a GF3/Radeon 9600, a CD-ROM, and a 40GB HD costs? Bet I can put that together for less than $300. And it easily outperforms a PS2, Xbox, or GameCube. Particularly since the vast majority of current generation console games only have to do 640x480@30 fps (actually a bit less).


And from tested1's post:
actually the max fps 1080i can have is 30 because it has a 30hz refresh.

Which is 1920x1080@30fps, or basically the equivalent of 1920x540@60fps. But, yeah, it'd be more fair to use the former number to stop confusing fields and frames.

 
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56. Re: No subject Nov 7, 2005, 15:54 Tom
 
Agreed. I'm just sick and tired of the console fanbois claiming a mythical cost advantage. Sure, a console is cheaper right now, but I can build a PC that meets (and vastly exceeds) the specs of current consoles for ~$300.

How is there not a cost advantage? Are you saying that you can build a $300 PC with better specs than the XBox360? Or a $150 PC with better specs than a PS2?

I'm not a console fanboi btw. The only console I ever bought was a Dreamcast, and that was for Soul Calibur. I've been a PC gamer since my XT clone.

 
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55. Re: No subject Nov 7, 2005, 15:20 tested1
 
actually the max fps 1080i can have is 30 because it has a 30hz refresh.

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages/followup.htm

 
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54. No subject Nov 7, 2005, 15:13 Grandmaster Demonlord Toadeater
 
I'd rather it be released in 2020 than be another half-finished buggy piece of crap that you complete in under ten hours and forget afterwards like so many games today.

I am pretty sure a comma was needed in that sentence.

 
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