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35. Re: No subject Oct 10, 2005, 08:24 aldo_14
 
My take on the video showing the controller in action was that they were bound to show it in that over exaggerated way because it gives the viewer something to actually look at.

They weren't showing any games at all, it was all about the controller. So given that, it was hardly going to make for an interesting watch if all they showed was someone sat in their seat with the controller barely twitching.

In reality it's going to have to be usable like that, but it isn't attention grabbing, so they over cooked it.

I'm not sure all of it was.

Some would be definately exaggerated, yeah (particularly the survival horror example IIRC), but I wouldn't say all.... think of say, an eyetoy or dance mat.

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34. Re: No subject Oct 10, 2005, 07:55 Speckled Jim
 
My take on the video showing the controller in action was that they were bound to show it in that over exaggerated way because it gives the viewer something to actually look at.

They weren't showing any games at all, it was all about the controller. So given that, it was hardly going to make for an interesting watch if all they showed was someone sat in their seat with the controller barely twitching.

In reality it's going to have to be usable like that, but it isn't attention grabbing, so they over cooked it.

 
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33. Re: No subject Oct 10, 2005, 07:32 Tango
 
Nice post aldo. I doubt I'll buy a Revolution, but kudos to Nintendo for taking gaming in a different direction. As you say, I am one of the keyboard and mousers. I don't even like PS2's controls for anything other than driving, and even that's a pale second to a wheel and pedals. But I know several people (girls, mainly) who don't game that often, unless you count Spider Solitaire, but really fancy a DS or PSP just because it relates to the Gameboy they played with in the back of the car on the way to school 15 years back.

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32. Re: No subject Oct 10, 2005, 07:11 aldo_14
 
Look at the sales of Sports games and racing games. Madden or anyother EA sports title, not to mention Need for Speed, Forza, Gran Turismo. What does Nintendo have? Mario Cart.
Then again if you look at Nintendo's Current and past catalogs, both genre's haven't done well on the Nintendo Platform with exception to Mario Golf, and Mario Cart.

If you look at nintendos stated business goals, they're working at a tangent to existing console markets. People seem to always miss this for some reason; Nintendo are not aiming at the people who buy consoles for sports, racing, etc games. They're aiming for the people (now) who don't usually play games; outside the 18-35 male demographic the Ps3 and X360 will be targeting. Look at stuff like Nintendogs or that Brain Trainer thing on the DS; sure, 'hardcore' gamers may scoff, but Ninty are making a fucking mint off that. (Nintendo actually make more profit than either Sony, MS or EA)

EDIT; hehe. I would post the above when Nintendo release a forecast of reduced profits...... to be fair, it's based on an article i read a couple of weeks ago about the time the Revolution controller was demo-ed, so it's not just pulled out me buttocks. Either way, Nintendo simply have to carve out a new market from themselves.

I've heard countless anecdotes that the DS is more popular with, for example, female (in particular) or middle-aged people as it's got simpler, more intuitive controls (touch screen + stylus in particular). That's what they're aiming for; not, I'd wager 99% of the people who post on the net about games or visit here (and that includes me). This is the sort of market who don't sit down in front of the telly for 3 or 4 hours playing Burnout or Pro Evo; many of them won't even sit down atall.

And of course kids. People tend to scoff at 'kiddie' games, but in all truth a good game is a good game, regardless of how colourful the graphics are, or how bloody.

Personally, I think it's innovative and brave as hell, although obviously you'd need to get your hands on the thing to know for sure how well it acheives that aim (of being accessible and fun).


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This comment was edited on Oct 10, 07:35.
 
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31. Re: No subject Oct 10, 2005, 03:34 Ray Marden
 
It all depends on how it plays out in the end.

Given what Nintendo has shown in its videos, it is all about simplistic, exaggerated moves.

Hopefully, it will be an incredibly sensitive device, but (a) the retail-level hardware does not seem to be there and (b) ther are concerns about it being too sensitive (you shift on the couch, you sneeze, you stretch, etc.)

I know on the PC, I was prone to repetitive motion stress/pain so I, long ago, bumped my mouse sensitivity up to the maximum along with utilizing a pull-out keyboard bay. I now have to only barely move my hand/mouse (left of screen to right of screen is about one inch,) my elbow/arm rests on the chair rest, and the base of my wrist rests on the keyboard tray. Very, very relaxing and no more issues - now going on many years.

My suspicion is that very few games will actually rely on it heavily or only for simplistic, exaggerated things. Or rather, I expect very few will actually use the full three-hundred and sixty degrees of movement.

As ever, time will tell...
Nintendo has some amazing technology or this is fairly simplistic.
Noting controllers can be shifted around quite easily,
Ray

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30. Re: No subject Oct 10, 2005, 03:09 Tony!!!
 
Hump, think about it. You can rest your arm on your lap or your chair. If wrist fatique is a big threat for you then....???

-Tony!!!;)

 
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29. Re: No subject Oct 9, 2005, 23:39 Masa
 
You don't get arm fatigue moving your mouse do you?



What can I say? Pr0n is cheaper than crack.

 
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28. Re: No subject Oct 9, 2005, 23:17 Ray Marden
 
In general - awww, I was picking on Allard. Honestly, he just gets on my nervers and is the epitome of M$ PR double-speak. They can have it both ways, if not three, and they always had the idea first or are always exactly where they want to be.

My poor mind can only take so much PR double-speak before it eXpLoDeS. He just strikes me as being especially ignorant or pompous; take your pick. I can appreciate a bad interview, but he consistently has questionable comments (the valid ones, not just the forced ones - heh :D) in his interviews.

As for sports games, I admit upfront that I have absolutely no understanding of it, but they are the real bread and butter of the consoles. They turn in huge, huge numbers year on year.

Hey, I like the occasional sports game, but I was never one to obsess over them or mandate their yearly purchase. But as I said, I completely fail to understand that market.

EA is a big company, but it has almost equal power in whether or not it will release sports games for your platform...
Sadly.
Not understanding it one single bit,
Ray

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27. Re: No subject Oct 9, 2005, 23:05 Jensen
 
This is the dumbest J. Allaer Comment:

"It’s the same reason behind our DVD remote. At the press conference I could have done our whole demo on the DVD remote because we put A, B, X, Y on the remote....You’re going to be able to play casual games on Live Arcade with the remote control."

Casual gamers can play casual games on our remote too!

 
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26. Re: No subject Oct 9, 2005, 22:21 FourPak
 
Gates, Ballmer, Allard, etc. all see themselves as gods,
not unlike Ceasar, Napolean, Alexander.

 
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25. Re: No subject Oct 9, 2005, 22:02 John
 
You don't get arm fatigue moving your mouse do you?

I would if I tried holding it up off the desk and rotating it around with my hand.

I'm not sure they're aiming for the people who spend hours on end sitting in front of the telly / PC playing games, though......

I'd think they are aiming for anyone who plays games or who may play in the immediate future.


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24. Re: No subject Oct 9, 2005, 21:49 The Half Elf
 
Look at the sales of Sports games and racing games. Madden or anyother EA sports title, not to mention Need for Speed, Forza, Gran Turismo. What does Nintendo have? Mario Cart.
Then again if you look at Nintendo's Current and past catalogs, both genre's haven't done well on the Nintendo Platform with exception to Mario Golf, and Mario Cart.

 
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23. Re: No subject Oct 9, 2005, 21:43 Semantics
 
Why the hell are sports and racing games 'necessary' for a console?

I imagine they are a very reliable source of income. And Microsoft likes money.

 
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22. Re: No subject Oct 9, 2005, 19:56 aldo_14
 
I think the gameindustry article sort of blew Allards comments out of proportion. He didn't reject the whole thing out of hand (so to speak), he just said he couldn't see how one would be able to play Sports and Racing games, two very basic and neccessary genres for a console system. This sort of goes in hand with what I said in my last post about the controller having to address obvious design issues.

Why the hell are sports and racing games 'necessary' for a console?

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21. Re: No subject Oct 9, 2005, 19:07 HorrorScope
 
Well I think they are all missing the point and over thinking all of this. Just put a bloody wireless/optical mouse on a console already and use it for games that work best for it, like you would with any other input device.

This comment was edited on Oct 9, 19:08.
 
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20. Re: No subject Oct 9, 2005, 17:37 Hump
 
I think the gameindustry article sort of blew Allards comments out of proportion. He didn't reject the whole thing out of hand (so to speak), he just said he couldn't see how one would be able to play Sports and Racing games, two very basic and neccessary genres for a console system. This sort of goes in hand with what I said in my last post about the controller having to address obvious design issues.

I do think his reasoning on the HD issue is idiotic though. What he should do is just fess up and tell the REAL reason for the two SKU's. The had to choose between the extra video memory or the HD in order to meet their sub-$300 target for a retail unit. The memory won out. Sony can get away with a higher retail price because of the branding alone. FWIW the original XBox had no real use for the HD. yeah the custome MP3's and whatnot were sweet but it wasn't absolutely neccessary.

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19. Re: No subject Oct 9, 2005, 17:19 MeatForce
 
This is my favourite one lately:
http://xbox.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3144428


"You go and buy a TV, I guess it's confusing but I like the choice. You buy a cellphone, it could be confusing but I like the choice. Consumers like choice, and it's a very pro-consumer move on our part to say, 'We've got two configurations of system that'll be launching in Europe and if they're not right, we have the flexibility to go and change it'. You buy a TV and it's not progressive scan, you're screwed--you made the choice and you can't upgrade. You buy an iPod Shuffle and you want an iPod Photo, you're screwed--you can't upgrade. You bought a Mini Cooper and you want the Turbo, you're screwed. You buy the Xbox 360 Core system, you can build up to the premium system and you won't be left out of anything along the way. You can pace into this however you want, unlike any of the traditional categories."

So there you have it. Choices are good. Unless you happen to be screwed by them.


HEEHEEEE! You can just hear the author's fingers fly across their keyboard in anticipation of that last zinger!


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18. Re: No subject Oct 9, 2005, 17:14 Hump
 
Arm fatigue???

You don't have to do BIG MOVEMENTS at all. You can use small movements just like the ones you use on your mouse. You don't get arm fatigue moving your mouse do you?

Have you ever tried those presentation/3d mice? ( http://tinyurl.com/am2l7 )

I have. I've also tried those VR hand things as well. In both cases your arm gets fatigued after a short period which is why both are of limited use. The hand thing was $100 originally and is now discontinued going for a song on eBay http://tinyurl.com/7swz9 .

RE: mouse. Its pretty obvious you don't get fatigued using a mouse because you don't need to hold it up in the air.

hey, I'm all for a cool controller like Nintendo's. All I'm saying is it isn't a slam-dunk idea lke they seem to be promoting. There are real design issues that need to be addressed.

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"Both the “left” and the “right” pretend they have the answer, but they are mere flippers on the same thalidomide baby, and the truth is that neither side has a clue."

- Jim Goad
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17. Re: No subject Oct 9, 2005, 16:48 The Half Elf
 
Ok Ray, calm down..... breathe..... think happy thoughts, go to your happy place....... have a beer... or 12.

Also if I remember correctly, True Fantasy Live which was being developed for the XBOX, is being revived for the 360. They said they want pretty much to have all their bases covered for each genre, and this would cover the MMO genre. That being said it would have to require the hard drive.

 
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16. Re: No subject Oct 9, 2005, 16:08 Geese
 
Wow, lucky us. Only now did you realize how smart you are and, after the fact, that you already invented the Revolution controller.

Oh, so the fact that he merely mentions that he thought about putting an accelerometer in a controller is BOTH showing how smart he is, and saying he invented the Rev controller? Dang, you are reading what you want into that.

Wait, you spent all the previous part of the article saying it was dumb and pointless. WTF?

No, he didn't! He said, quote "We did a lot of research on gamers and talked to a lot of game developers and said, 'Should we put an accelerometer in there?' And there wasn't that much enthusiasm around it. "

That, in no way, is saying he thought it was dumb and pointless.

What about FFXI? MMOGs? Online-delivered games? What, because they do not "officially" exist yet, you are not "officially" screwing over those without it? And broadening the audience? By splitting the hardware? Not having it standard? Asking most developers to do what they can to have it not require one? Having games that do require it, screwing over those that do not have it? Umm...yeah.

It would be screwing them over if they never had the option to buy the hard drive when, and if they want it. Most devs admitted that they would rather have more RAM than a harddrive if given the choice. If you want those things, then get the hard drive. It isn't a hard choice. Most devs aren't even complaining about this. It's the forumites that are. This is an old argument.

"But I think it's very pro-consumer and very pro-developer, and I think that in five years everybody will look back and say that this was a very, very good move on our part to launch worldwide and to have the flexibility for consumers to decide on their products."

Oh man, does this one even need a comment?

No, of course not, because it seems like a plausible statement.
 
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