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Out of the Blue

A couple of responses to my post last night have me planning on trying to easy my mouse hand pain with some sort of wrist rest. I experimented with items like this in times past, but didn't have any strain to ease, so didn't see the use... I probably won't be able to find where any of those old ones might be. It was also encouraging to see there are others out there using the right mouse button as their forward keys... maybe we can start a support group.

R.I.P.: TV's Miss Ellie Dies and 7-Foot-Plus Actor Matthew McGrory Dies (A.K.A. Bigfoot).

Achy Links: Thanks Mike Martinez and Ant.
Play Time: Create Your Own Artwork.
Stories: FEMA pays for at least 203 funerals not related to '04 hurricanes. Thanks Hump.
Bin Laden in 'Hell'. "Snobster."
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Climate warning as Siberia melts.
Teh Funny: FoxTrot.

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83 Replies. 5 pages. Viewing page 1.
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83. Re: Owens Aug 12, 2005, 14:24 Creston
 
Please, rarely listen to Joe Morgan. He is the greatest 2B of all time. But I wouldn't trust him anywhere near a front office.

I think Joe Morgan knows more about baseball than you and I and everyone else put together
Edit : Btw, I love Joe, but I still say Rogers Hornsby is the greatest 2nd baseman of all time, even though Rob Neyer does not agree with me.

Creston

You should get what you pay for. And pay for what you get.

Incentive contracts.
Then again, the Eagles got more than what they paid for from TO's 2004 season, and they aren't paying for the extra...

This comment was edited on Aug 12, 16:24.
 
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82. Re: Owens Aug 12, 2005, 14:05 Chipsystems
 
A player wants money NOW, in THIS year, because he has NO guarantee he's going to get ANY money next year.

What about the team? You could change that to: "They want the performance from their player NOW, in THIS year, because they have NO guarantee he's going to do ANY thing for them next year."

I really don't see how this is a bad thing that the contracts aren't binding. You should get what you pay for. And pay for what you get.

"Hmm, cut Harrison, sign a few better defensive players, maybe we can beat these guys."
And bye bye Marvin! Thanks for all your hard work!

Yeah, if someone else thinks he's worth that much then that year, they'll sign him. It's as easy as that.

And I don't feel that bad for Harrison. He gets to play football and make millions.

 
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81. Re: Owens Aug 12, 2005, 13:58 Chipsystems
 
My stance on the A-Rod thing always coincides with an absolutely great quote from Joe Morgan two years ago, when he and Jon Miller were talking about if A-Rod should be the MVP, even though Texas was in last place.

Joe Morgan, "It's not A-Rod's fault that they're in last place."

Please, rarely listen to Joe Morgan. He is the greatest 2B of all time. But I wouldn't trust him anywhere near a front office.

He got it right that time (fairly impossible to get wrong, A-Rod was having a fantastic year by anybody's standards). But it doesn't happen often.

 
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80. Re: Owens Aug 12, 2005, 13:52 Creston
 
Even for you that was too long!

Okay, I'll keep it shorter

You have ZERO chance of this happening, maybe even less than zero. The players will never agree to incentive laden contracts, hell, thats what TO has right now! His contract is laden with incentives to make him not act like an ass. He's blown that of course - no surprise.

I don't know. TO is a bad example for something like this, since he's crazy. But if you take the normal player in the NFL, potential star, not quite superstar level, and you put him on a contract where potentially, if he has an MVP type year, he could make 12-15 million dollars for that year (being financially set for life), you think he wouldn't play his ass off?

Actually his signing bonus was around $6 million dollars. Never even pulled on his jersey and he gets $6 million. Hmmm, not massive? Matter of perspective I guess.

Well, like I said, compare that to other top players in the league.

Top 2 QBs

Peyton Manning - 34.5 Million
Michael Vick - 15 Million
(apologies to Tom Brady fans)

Top 2 Receivers
Randy Moss - 18 Million
TO - 6 Million

Top Running Backs

Oh, ooooohhhh, I found a great list here, thanks USA today.

QB Peyton Manning, Indianapolis: $34.5
QB Chad Pennington, N.Y. Jets $18.0
DE Grant Wistrom, Seattle $14.0
RB LaDainian Tomlinson, San Diego $12.4
DE Jevon Kearse, Philadelphia $12.0
RB Clinton Portis, Washington $11.58
LB LaVar Arrington, Washington $11.3
DE Gary Walker, Houston $11.0
CB Shawn Springs, Washington $10.25
OL Todd Wade, Houston $10.0
DE Adewale Ogunleye, Chicago $10.0
OL Chad Clifton, Green Bay $10.0
DT Dewayne Robertson, N.Y. Jets $10.0


And let's throw some frigging rookies in here

Eli Manning - 20 Million (think the Giants are feeling stupid already?)
Philip fucking Rivers - 14.25 Million

etc. I think you get my point.

Your signing bonus is the only money that's guaranteed, which is about the only money you have to go on in the NFL. So yeah, I can see why TO, with last year's performance, feels he's undervalued.

So if he hung around for three years he would make a minumum of $9.2M and most likely $21M over the perios. Ok.

But you can't really say that, because if TO has a poor year this year, and the Eagles decide "Shit, he's burning money," they'd cut him, and he'd not have that money. (Not all of it anyways).
That's my whole point. A player wants money NOW, in THIS year, because he has NO guarantee he's going to get ANY money next year.

Moss was MUCH younger at the time, is better IMO and had more left in the tank. So it's fair that he would get more than TO, again in my opinion.

No argument there.

Again, I'd take Harrison over TO. He's fantastic.

I'd rate TO a bit higher purely in skills, but granted, if given a choice I'd take Harrison over TO in a heartbeat.

This sentence, especially, really bugs me
But there's no guarantee that the Colts won't deny Harrison his $10 million bonus if his production falls in 2005.

That's just plain fucking BULLSHIT. And I can't believe anyone would defend that, and then say players don't have a right to complain.
I'm not saying the Colts WILL deny Harrison that money, but when they inevitably get killed by the Patriots again this year, maybe next year they figure "Hmm, cut Harrison, sign a few better defensive players, maybe we can beat these guys."
And bye bye Marvin! Thanks for all your hard work!

Again, I'm not sticking up for TO in particular, but because nobody likes him, he makes for the most compelling argument. If a guy is well liked by everyone, he deserves more money, but if he's an ass he doesn't? That's not right, imo. His achievements on the field warrant more money than he's making right now, and since teams will take away your money if you don't perform, I don't see why players shouldn't ask for more if they achieve better than expected.

I was looking at the situation from the Owners perspective not the players when I mentioned I would take Harrison over Owens

Oh okay.

Creston

I would be more than happy to meet a pub and swap arguments, I just get tired of reading all the time.

Stop complaining you pussy! We're getting HARDCORE now!

j/k

edit 2 : Well, it's slighty shorter anyways...

This comment was edited on Aug 12, 13:53.
 
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79. No subject Aug 12, 2005, 11:48 xXBatmanXx
 
ok seriously. Can we cut the amount of reading required.
I like the insults and swearing better than these synopsis.

I would be more than happy to meet a pub and swap arguments, I just get tired of reading all the time.

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78. Re: Owens Aug 12, 2005, 11:45 xXBatmanXx
 
Somehow, if he gets injured this year, I can picture Favre just sitting on the bench, sulking, while Rodgers is playing and getting overwhelmed.

As you can tell, I'm NOT a fan of Brett Favre.


Favre sux. He should have put them up before last year, he looked pretty damn stupid averaging 3-4 interceptions per game. It was great for us living in MN though!

Favre is a cray baby.

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77. Re: Owens Aug 12, 2005, 11:04 Bronco
 
Holy crap this got way too long..

Even for you that was too long!


Personally, I think the NFL needs incentive contracts. Every player gets 500.000 in salary, and everything else is based on your numbers. xxx for a touchdown, xx for a tackle, xx for 100 yards gained from the line of scrimmage, etc.
The problem with guaranteed contracts is that once everyone has their money, they won't risk anything anymore (rightly so anyways), and you'll see endless 3 yard dinks where the receiver goes out of bounds as soon as he catches the ball.
But if you give players money based on what they did all year long, that's a great incentive, and it's also fair to the players and it's by far the easiest way to judge every individual's worth.
The LENGTH of a contract, however, should be guaranteed.

You have ZERO chance of this happening, maybe even less than zero. The players will never agree to incentive laden contracts, hell, thats what TO has right now! His contract is laden with incentives to make him not act like an ass. He's blown that of course - no surprise.

n my admittedly limited knowledge of his contract, however, TO's signing bonus (which is the ONLY guaranteed money a player gets, unless he's Atticus Bongman Ricky Williams,) is actually not that massive.

Actually his signing bonus was around $6 million dollars. Never even pulled on his jersey and he gets $6 million. Hmmm, not massive? Matter of perspective I guess.

Here are some numbers to compare that with:

From http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/sports/11904694.htm

First the round about details of TO's contract:

Before getting into the numbers, however, it should be noted that Owens made loud public declarations that he had a burning desire to join the Eagles and catch passes from quarterback Donovan McNabb. Owens probably would have become a free agent if he had let the NFL's special master rule on a grievance filed by the players' union last year.

Instead, he signed a seven-year deal with the Eagles worth slightly less than $49 million and happily accepted a trade from the Baltimore Ravens. The deal included just under $9.2 million in guaranteed money and is worth just a little less than $7 million annually over the first three years.

So if he hung around for three years he would make a minumum of $9.2M and most likely $21M over the perios. Ok.

Now Randy Moss:

Only Randy Moss and Marvin Harrison received better deals during the first three seasons.

Moss signed an eight-year deal worth $75 million with the Minnesota Vikings in 2001. The deal included an $18 million signing bonus, which remains by far the highest for a wide receiver in NFL history.

At the time, Moss was just 24 and had compiled 4,163 receiving yards and 43 touchdown catches in his first three NFL seasons. Now with the Oakland Raiders, he averaged $9 million over the first three years of the contract.

Moss was MUCH younger at the time, is better IMO and had more left in the tank. So it's fair that he would get more than TO, again in my opinion.

Now Marvin Harrison:

The only other receiver with a better annual average salary over the first three seasons of a contract is Harrison, the Roman Catholic graduate who signed an eight-year, $72.5 million contract last season with the Indianapolis Colts.

Harrison's deal included a $6 million signing bonus, a $7 million roster bonus that he'll receive this season, and a $10 million roster bonus due in 2006. If he cashes next year's bonus, his deal would be worth an average of $10.2 million over the first three seasons.

But there's no guarantee that the Colts won't deny Harrison his $10 million bonus if his production falls in 2005.

Again, I'd take Harrison over TO. He's fantastic.

Lastly:

It would appear as if Owens' only option is to play for the Eagles or sit out the season and forfeit his salary. Should Owens choose the latter option, he'd still be under his 2005 contract with the Eagles if he returned in 2006.

"The contract is tolled," Steinberg said. "It wouldn't matter if he came back in 2010, he'd still be under contract for 2005."

So he is boned and has no wiggle room here.

And the whole distractions thing? Please, that's a 100% media invention anyways. Do you really think that any of the guys on the Eagles really give a fuck about what happens with TO? Do you think that they all sit together going "Oh man, this TO thing is really getting to me, I need a day off to deal with this shit."
Please. The other players on the Eagles don't give a fuck about TO, or his contract, and it doesn't bother them one bit. The only two who potentially might be affected by it are Reid and McNabb, because of offensive decisions (and because of the stupid questions the reporters keep asking). Other than that, I doubt anyone is affected by this AT ALL.

I was looking at the situation from the Owners perspective not the players when I mentioned I would take Harrison over Owens. I agree that the players don't think it's a big deal and I would add to that that other players outside the Eagles current roster wouldn't mind coming here as long as they were ok about their specific contract. It really is all about the money - not who you get it from.

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76. Re: Owens Aug 12, 2005, 10:49 Creston
 
No, it's really simple. A-Rod took the money over a winning baseball team. That's fine with me and everyone else. You just can't be unhappy about losing if you're part of the problem. Of course, the bigger problem in all this is that Scott Boras got Tom Hicks to outbid himself to the tune of $90M more. And they thew their money away on Chan Ho Park.

It was actually Park's contract that was killing them more than A-Rod's contract. He at least delivered.
My stance on the A-Rod thing always coincides with an absolutely great quote from Joe Morgan two years ago, when he and Jon Miller were talking about if A-Rod should be the MVP, even though Texas was in last place. (which was unfair anyways, since the Angels, A's AND Mariners were fantastic teams in that year, kinda hard to compete with that. Nobody complains that the Blue Jays aren't competing...)

Joe Morgan, "It's not A-Rod's fault that they're in last place."
Especially that year, since he had 57 homers, 140 ribbies, .332 / .4hundredsomething / .8million or so.

He wants to win. Players holding out (by either not coming to practice or not playing in games) make the team not as good, and thus less capble of winning. Thus, it affects Favre a lot.

So? So someone should say "Oh man, Brett Favre might not be in the NFL much longer, I better just forget my own financial future and help Brett win!"
Guys do what's best for them. Brett has his money, he should allow someone else to get his money too.
Btw, if Favre REALLY wants to win, he should hang them up. He's been killing his team for the last three years now. Did you hear his comments about Aaron Rodgers yesterday?
"I ain't here to help you get ready for the NFL!"

Yeah, why would you try to help your team out by preparing the guy who will take over from you to be a better QB. Way to help the team there, Brett. But God forbid some guy wants more money...

Somehow, if he gets injured this year, I can picture Favre just sitting on the bench, sulking, while Rodgers is playing and getting overwhelmed.

As you can tell, I'm NOT a fan of Brett Favre.

Creston


 
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75. Re: Owens Aug 12, 2005, 10:16 Chipsystems
 
-- To give another example, everyone is shitting on A-Rod in baseball for that 252 million dollar contract. Why is that A-Rod's fault? Nowadays, all the columnists are bitching that "He knew full well that with that amount of money, the Rangers wouldn't be able to build a competitive team around him." --

No, it's really simple. A-Rod took the money over a winning baseball team. That's fine with me and everyone else. You just can't be unhappy about losing if you're part of the problem. Of course, the bigger problem in all this is that Scott Boras got Tom Hicks to outbid himself to the tune of $90M more. And they thew their money away on Chan Ho Park.

Btw, I thought Favre should have kept his mouth shut when his teammate was holding out for more money.

I think I completely disagree here. But I think I always disagree when it comes to holdouts. I've never seen the reason for a player not to show up to practice. If they want to "hold out", then I think they can do it just fine by not playing in any regular season games. Just don't show up on Sunday. Every other day of the week, get out there and bust your hump just like every one else.

But I think more to the point, it DOES matter to a guy like Favre. Favre is not much longer for the NFL. He wants to win. Players holding out (by either not coming to practice or not playing in games) make the team not as good, and thus less capble of winning. Thus, it affects Favre a lot.

This comment was edited on Aug 12, 10:17.
 
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74. Re: Owens Aug 12, 2005, 09:45 Creston
 
Although it was a great post, I can't agree with the beginning. If they think they are worth XXX million, somone else will take the job for XXX-1 million. Same with our market.

Hmmm, I don't think so. Especially in sports, it's all about perception of value at the moment of the contract. If you're looking for a quality receiver (in our example), there's really not THAT many names out there that are available at the time when you're looking. Sure there will be guys who'd gladly play for 1 million dollar less than what TO is making, but are they as GOOD as he is? (strictly looking from a skill standpoint, there is only one better receiver, imo, and that's Randy Moss.)

Also, you never know exactly WHAT you're going to get, unlike the normal job market, where if you hire an IT guy, you're pretty sure you'll get an xx level of knowledge for an xx number of years.
With an athlete, there's no guarantee, especially in the NFL, so you want the guy with the most potential.
But now we're really veering way off course

---------

I agree he went above and beyond the call of duty to play when the doctors said not to (and played well), but again, it was his CHOICE to do so (the team, IIRC, said they didn't want/expect him to play).

That was just showboating to cover their own butts, in my opinion. TO was BROUGHT to the Eagles to help them win a Superbowl. I think that if he HAD sat out, there would have been 'rumors' from 'sources close to the Eagles management', that 'TO really should have played'.
That's why they GOT the guy in the first place.

And, listen, he didn't just sign a contract. He actively lobbied to get off the 49ers, then wouldn't go to the team they traded him to, then got the chance to sign with the team OF HIS CHOICE. This was a situation of his own choosing.

I agree that under the present system the NFL contracts are a joke and need reworking. TO, however, is not a good case to use to argue the point about renegotiating a contract, IMHO.


Well, that's definitely true, but that makes it a more compelling argument. I mean, if Tom Brady had been holding out for more money (which he deserves, btw), would there be anyone who would NOT be on his side?
Like I said, TO is an ass, and after last night's tirade even more so, but strictly from the professional side, I'm on the side of the players.


---------

The players association agreed to this set up. Why? I have no idea but they did. So now they have to suck it up and deal with it till 2007, when the current agreement expires.

Well true, like I said, the NFL players association is the dumbest bunch of idiots on the planet. Actually, that's not completely true, the NHL PA is even more stupid.
However, how long has that agreement stood? Since...1997 now or so? Many of today's players weren't even IN the NFL when they agreed to that deal. I know, that's what a CBA is about, but we're not talking about the amount of coffee breaks you can take here. We're talking about guys who work their ass off, run the risk of major, life threatening injuries every time they're on the field, who run the risk of having their boss say "Hey, great year buddy, thanks! Good luck with that job at Mickey D's!"

HOPEFULLY the NFL PA will wisen up and finally do something about this idiot situation.

The Eagles have extended many a players contract since the current management team took over. He signed the deal just a year ago. One year. Had he worked through this year and been the good soldier he was for the first 2/3 of the last season he would have had a shot at extending/reworking his deal.

Well, I'm not so sure. I think TO realises that the Eagles aren't very firm favorites to go back to the Superbowl, and so he figured, that with fan opinion behind him (at first), for playing on his creaky wheel, he'd be able to convince them NOW for a better deal.

Personally, I think the NFL needs incentive contracts. Every player gets 500.000 in salary, and everything else is based on your numbers. xxx for a touchdown, xx for a tackle, xx for 100 yards gained from the line of scrimmage, etc.
The problem with guaranteed contracts is that once everyone has their money, they won't risk anything anymore (rightly so anyways), and you'll see endless 3 yard dinks where the receiver goes out of bounds as soon as he catches the ball.
But if you give players money based on what they did all year long, that's a great incentive, and it's also fair to the players and it's by far the easiest way to judge every individual's worth.
The LENGTH of a contract, however, should be guaranteed.

Yes he can play. Yes he is an ass

Never denied that, like I said, I can't really stand the guy but purely professionally I can understand where he's coming from.

I also don't think you understand how signing bonuses work and how they are allocated over the length of the contract against the teams salary cap.

Heh, I don't think ANYONE understands that.
In my admittedly limited knowledge of his contract, however, TO's signing bonus (which is the ONLY guaranteed money a player gets, unless he's Atticus Bongman Ricky Williams,) is actually not that massive. Most of his contract in tied up in roster bonusses (7.5 million for next year alone).

The Eagles don't operate this way. Several players on the team have been injured and kept on the roster over several years.
See above. It sucks but their union agreed to it. Of course, this is a bit unfair since these players can't pick up their cleats and head to the other league since there isn't one.


Okay, I can't argue with that one way or the other, I know there are quite a few teams that DO operate this way, but I have no idea if the Eagles do or not, so I'll take your word for it.

1. The other Owners are watching this. If the Eagles break and give TO what he wants then that just sets the bar for other pretentious morons to act out to get what they want.

True, however, don't think that the PLAYERS aren't also watching this. There are quite a few players who secretly agree with TO, that if you have a fantastic year, you deserve more money. Don't look for any top tier guys to be eyeing the Eagles with any kind of longing right now. Although that's a guess on my part.

2. Drew Rosenhouse is a moron. He has totally misplayed the Eagles and it's going to bite him in the but. I would not be surprised AT ALL if Owens ends up sitting in his home this year. If that happens then he really is SOL cause the current year of his contract doesn't count. He will stille be under contract with the Eagles and will not have made a penny this year.

No, I don't agree. First of all, Drew Rosenhaus saved a kid's life. I think that 99% of us here on this forum have never done so, and for that he gets a lot of respect in my book.
On the business side, the guy is arrogant and cocky, but he IS a good agent. He goes all-out to get the player the most money. Why is that bad? Why aren't players allowed to look out for themselves?
-- To give another example, everyone is shitting on A-Rod in baseball for that 252 million dollar contract. Why is that A-Rod's fault? Nowadays, all the columnists are bitching that "He knew full well that with that amount of money, the Rangers wouldn't be able to build a competitive team around him." --
Ask yourself, if you get offered a 252.000 dollar salary (let's keep this in numbers we can all relate to), but you know that with that salary, there may not be room to hire another guy, would YOU say to your boss "No man, make it 150.000 dollars a year, and hire another guy to help out."
I'm sorry, but I wouldn't. Because for all YOU know, the company is going to give that 102.000 dollars as a fucking bonus to the CEO.
I think 99.9999% of the population would say "Fuck it, I'm taking the money!"
But when an athlete does that, or tries to do that, he's wrong? Please. When companies have the right to fire you at a moment's notice, they shouldn't fucking whine that employees no longer have loyalty to that same company. I love how in today's world, you're supposed to work overtime whenever the company wants you to, you really shouldn't take those days off, you should volunteer for everything, you should really do more work at home, you should never look at other offers, but you still have to accept that if we make 2 million fewer dollars this year, we're going to fire you, and fuck you and your 8 months pregnant wife, but the CEO still gets his 2 million dollar bonus for great performance.

Well fuck that. We've had guys here leave recently because they got better offers (I work at a NOTORIOUSLY fucking cheap place right now), and I've applauded them every step. My boss can't quite figure out why they would be leaving, even though there have been no less than TWELVE rounds of layoffs in the past three years. Gee, I wonder why nobody feels loyal to your company anymore, dickshit.

Now, back on topic, Rosenhaus probably / definitely misjudged the Eagles, true, but nobody is perfect. He's gotten quite a few players more money by having them hold out. I think Rosenhaus just never realised that TO was going to be the new face of public television and would keep whining and complaining, thereby just hardening the Eagles' stance against him (because right now he has ZERO chance of ever getting more money). You win some, you lose some. Sportscenter had a special on him a few months back, and sure he's brash and arrogant, but don't think for a second that this isn't a VERY smart individual. He's definitely not a moron.

3. TO is a megalomaniac. He knew his deal. He understood it. He just figured he could beat it. Maybe I'm crazy but 10 million over the first two years sounds ok to me. Is it Marvin Harrison money? No but I'd rather have Harrison, a team player that plays and doesn't cause distractions.

Yeah but you need to keep it in perspective. To us, who make like 50k a year, we'd say "WTF? 10 MILLION BUCKS??? I'll do it!!!!!"
But when you're a player, you look at your perceived worth, and TO quantifies himself as one of the top 2 receivers in the league (well, actually he sees himself as no 1, but okay), but he isn't getting the same money relatively as the top QBs and RBs make. So he complains about it.

If you're the best guy on your department, but some other guy makes more money than you do, even though he does less work / lower quality work, would you be fine at that? Not saying that EVERYONE would balk at a situation like that, but I actually recently came out of a situation where I did approximately twice the amount of work that everyone else did, and got paid approximately half of what they were. Fuck that.

TO's situation isn't that bad, but in his mind it's probably similar. He isn't making more money that most other receivers in the league to the same extent that the top 2 QBs and RBs are making, so he figures he's underpaid. Until we are ever in a situation where we'd make that much money, I don't think we can really relate to how we'd feel if that happened.


And the whole distractions thing? Please, that's a 100% media invention anyways. Do you really think that any of the guys on the Eagles really give a fuck about what happens with TO? Do you think that they all sit together going "Oh man, this TO thing is really getting to me, I need a day off to deal with this shit."
Please. The other players on the Eagles don't give a fuck about TO, or his contract, and it doesn't bother them one bit. The only two who potentially might be affected by it are Reid and McNabb, because of offensive decisions (and because of the stupid questions the reporters keep asking). Other than that, I doubt anyone is affected by this AT ALL.

Btw, I thought Favre should have kept his mouth shut when his teammate was holding out for more money. A guy is looking out for himself, it has nothing to do with you, just don't interfere with it. If he was getting 2 million dollars a year, he'd be crying about it too, but because he makes enough money, all of a sudden he has to complain about teammates feeling they are worth more?

Good discussion guys!

Holy crap this got way too long...

Creston

This comment was edited on Aug 12, 10:02.
 
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73. Re: Beer time!!!! Aug 12, 2005, 09:06 Zathrus
 
And while you are looking down at yourkeyboard for that number key to hit to change weapons in a firefight, I will pig stick your lame ass.

Dude, you're a good player but please...

There is no delay in moving from forwards to backwards using wasd. You don't pick your finger up off w and carefully reposition it to hit s. You slide from one to the other -- no delay in motion at all.

And looking down at the keyboard to hit a number key? Uh, maybe if you're new to using keyboards. I can hit 1-6 without removing my middle finger from w/s purely using muscle memory. In most games I rebind other keys near wasd to the higher weapons, but that hasn't been necessary for BF2.

I think the more likely situation is someone who uses only the next/prev/last weapon binds getting toasted because they don't have the right weapon out at the right time.

As far as this kind of thing goes, however, I still fondly remember Q2 and binding mouse up/down to "best explosive/non-explosive" weapon. It would automatically switch to whatever weapon you had ammo for in your order of preference. I also like UT's "best weapon" keybind that's just built in to the game. But I still think that Q2 had the best weapon balance of any FPS that I've played... it never devolved into a rocket fest (or rail fest).

 
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72. Re: Owens Aug 12, 2005, 09:05 xXBatmanXx
 
3. TO is a megalomaniac. He knew his deal. He understood it. He just figured he could beat it. Maybe I'm crazy but 10 million over the first two years sounds ok to me. Is it Marvin Harrison money? No but I'd rather have Harrison, a team player that plays and doesn't cause distractions

Werd. Well said, and what I was trying to say, but you didn't drop any F-bombs.

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71. Re: Owens Aug 12, 2005, 07:30 Bronco
 
That being said, T.O. has no right to be disruptive to his team. The guy's a jerk - but the Eagles knew that going in. Still, I love Andy Reid sending him home (good for him) but I also loved watching T.O.'s psycho driveway workout with reporters and helicopters looking on. I feel a little bad for the Eagles fans out there, but like the team, you had to know this could happen even when he was playing so great last year.

Even moreso than what Andy is doing is what Joe Banner is doing. People outside of Philly may not know who he is - he's the iron fist of the owner and the person that the players agents have to negotiate with.

While I'd like to see this work itself out I highly doubt that Joe Banner will cave. The guy is a total business man with no allegiance to people or players other than his boss - exactly what an Owner wants in its chief negotiator right?

Three more things then I'm done with the issue:

1. The other Owners are watching this. If the Eagles break and give TO what he wants then that just sets the bar for other pretentious morons to act out to get what they want.

2. Drew Rosenhouse is a moron. He has totally misplayed the Eagles and it's going to bite him in the but. I would not be surprised AT ALL if Owens ends up sitting in his home this year. If that happens then he really is SOL cause the current year of his contract doesn't count. He will stille be under contract with the Eagles and will not have made a penny this year.

3. TO is a megalomaniac. He knew his deal. He understood it. He just figured he could beat it. Maybe I'm crazy but 10 million over the first two years sounds ok to me. Is it Marvin Harrison money? No but I'd rather have Harrison, a team player that plays and doesn't cause distractions.



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70. Re: Owens Aug 12, 2005, 07:21 Bronco
 
If a team doesn't like a player, or the player gets injured (PLAYING FOR THAT SAME FUCKING "TEAM"), or the team just wants to pay less money, they will simply say, "Hey buddy, look, we know we gave you a seven year contract, but really, we don't like that deal very much anymore. So we're going to just not be held accountable to it anymore. Now, you can either just get the fuck out of here, or you can agree to this new three year deal we have here for you for the grand total of 17 dollars, 83 cents and some navel lint."

The players association agreed to this set up. Why? I have no idea but they did. So now they have to suck it up and deal with it till 2007, when the current agreement expires.

And there isn't fuck a player can do about that, except to either take it or get out. And that's all fine and dandy, since I never hear anyone complain about that anywhere. But when a PLAYER wants more money, all of a sudden he's greedy, and an ass, and he should stick to his contract? Please.

The Eagles have extended many a players contract since the current management team took over. He signed the deal just a year ago. One year. Had he worked through this year and been the good soldier he was for the first 2/3 of the last season he would have had a shot at extending/reworking his deal.

The NFL should either give guaranteed deals, or simply except that the renegotiation works both ways. For what he did last year, TO deserves more than the 3 million he's getting this year (he has a very wacky contract, salary wise).

If they were to start doing deals like that the salary cap would need to be adjusted and other issues addressed. I would also argue that the $10M that TO would have made between last year and this year was fair for a very talented receiver that has TONS of emotional baggage. Yes he can play. Yes he is an ass. He has yet to talk to Donovan. He is saying today that he has all kinds of problems with the fact that the Eagles forced him to sign a waiver prior to playing in the Superbowl. The Eagles didn't make him sign a waiver, the independent doctor that examined him did.

I also don't think you understand how signing bonuses work and how they are allocated over the length of the contract against the teams salary cap.

Especially in the NFL, where a player does run the risk of being permanently injured at any one point (at which point, btw, a team HAPPILY cuts you from their roster and never pays you another fucking dime, and good luck with those medical bills buddy!)

The Eagles don't operate this way. Several players on the team have been injured and kept on the roster over several years.
See above. It sucks but their union agreed to it. Of course, this is a bit unfair since these players can't pick up their cleats and head to the other league since there isn't one.





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69. Re: Owens Aug 12, 2005, 05:52 Tango
 
somone else will take the job for XXX-1 million
I know sweet F.A about American Football, but the same argument is used about player wages in (real ;P) football in Europe. Of course, the counter argument - there are far, far fewer people would would be able to take the job and deserve that sort of money. Sure, I'd be a wide receiver (whatever that is) for $XXX -1m a year, but I'd do a shitty job. But it's likely that with the same education and training as you, I might be able to do your job to a similar level to you, and vice versa. Unless you're an oil rig diver or something equally unique!!

 
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68. Re: Umm... Aug 12, 2005, 00:13 Fang
 
Weak dude. I could make the same argument for your keyboard hand.

Ah, but could you do it with your tongue firmly planted in your cheek?

 
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67. Re: Audio transfer questions Aug 11, 2005, 23:53 MeatForce
 
I already figured out and have removed the DRM so I do not have to use it. It is just annoying doing that and was hoping someone knew of a program other than WMP that can send music over along with the DRM license.

Ahh gotcha.

What I was hinting at was far too elaborate then

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66. Re: Umm... Aug 11, 2005, 23:52 xXBatmanXx
 
RMB'ers are heathens! See? Break these commandments and get carpal tunnel.

Weak dude. I could make the same argument for your keyboard hand.

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65. Re: Umm... Aug 11, 2005, 23:25 Fang
 
TO vs. the Eagles, I agree with Chipsystems.

Invert Mouse vs. regular mouse:
I use regular mouse in FPS and invert mouse (invert joystick/camera) in Third Person games (usually only on console) Makes sense to me. My mouse is pointed to where I am looking, its not the backend of my head. (unless it is with third persons).

WASD vs RMB:
WASD forever! RMB'ers are heathens! See? Break these commandments and get carpal tunnel. These laws were put here for a reason.

 
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64. Umm... Aug 11, 2005, 22:54 Chipsystems
 
  • Invert mouse vs. non-invert mouse:

  • No one way makes more sense. It's really whatever you're used to. In fact, there are some out there who use both inverted and non-inverted mouse for different situations (flying a plane, infantry, etc).

  • WASD vs. RMB forward:

  • Meh... again, whatever you're used to. Someone made a plausible argument that it takes time to switch from 'w' to 's', thus making you less maneuverable. Although this is true, I think it's rarely the case that someone died because they didn't switch to back pedaling fast enough (or vice versa). That argument would be much more valid against using the same finger for left and right strafe, less of a big deal for forward and back.

  • TO vs. the Eagles:

  • I support TO for what he's doing. And I support the Eagles for what they're doing. I love free markets. If I were TO, I think I'd hold out for more money too. If I were the Eagles, I sure as hell wouldn't sign him to a bigger contract (I don't think spending a significant portion of your salary cap on one wide receiver is a smart use of your budget). Of course, this is all easy for me to say, as I'm not an Eagles fan.


    Oh yeah, and I think I might buy the imaks wrist brace thing for my mouse hand. But then again, I'm sure it only works marginally better than a hand towel, and costs about 1000% more.

    This comment was edited on Aug 11, 22:55.
     
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