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Sin 2 on Steam

SiN 2 gets Steam release on Eurogamer cites the new issue of PC Gamer UK magazine as the source of confirmation of development of Sin 2 at Ritual Entertainment, though a recent series of teasers left this in little doubt. According to the story, the shooter sequel will use a modified version of Valve Software's Source engine, and will be released episodically via the Steam service, with the approximately six hour episodes to be released "every three to four months" for around $20 each. The article expresses uncertainty over whether the game will be released in boxed form, but does project the first release to be sometime this winter.

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220. Re: No subject Jul 10, 2005, 17:35 Prez
 
Finally someone posted screens.

Nice graphic style. Me like! Episodic content via Steam - UGH!

 
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219. Re: No subject Jul 10, 2005, 15:57 enammy
 
Finally someone posted screens.

http://www.sinepisodes.de/

 
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218. Re: No subject Jul 9, 2005, 13:39 kanniballl
 
But seriously, why is this thread this big? Who the hell cares about the Sin game anyway? The first one sucked, and was hardly well received. I can't understand the big deal on this. Now if it was Duke Nukem or Quake IV that was coming out in episodic installments, that would be another thing.

A bunch of people liked it, including myself. The problem was it was released with a few too many bugs for the first 1 or 3 weeks because it was rushed out the door. The reason it was rushed was Valve's Half-Life release (the publisher wanted to beat Valve out the door or at least come out soon afterwards).

Had the timing been a little better it probably would be better remembered by the gaming community.


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"Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you."
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217. No subject Jul 8, 2005, 12:07 nightfend
 
Is this the patch that makes the game fun??

But seriously, why is this thread this big? Who the hell cares about the Sin game anyway? The first one sucked, and was hardly well received. I can't understand the big deal on this. Now if it was Duke Nukem or Quake IV that was coming out in episodic installments, that would be another thing.

 
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216. Re: Stopped reading at page 9... Jul 6, 2005, 17:01 Creston
 
However, it's not like there weren't able to find a publisher. They (supposedly) weren't able to find a publisher that would give them the freedom to make the game they want.

Granted, however, usually this means that the publisher doesn't like what they see / read. Now, most publishers have the average IQ of my F key, so that's not saying much, but if Sin2 was a blowout AAA title, I think that SOME publisher would have said "Holy shit! Yeah we'll put this on shelves for you! More hookers!"

There are several developers who CAN go to a publisher and say, this is what we want to make, what do you think, and get their game made the way THEY want it. Not many, but they are there. THEY are the ones who usually make the AAA titles.

While I'd prefer $15 a-pop, small money spread out over the course of months isn't so bad

Sure it's only 20 bucks, but I'm not that rich that I'll habitually toss 20 bucks down the drain for whatever. 6 hours, which is probably 4 once it's all said and done for 20 bucks is not value for money, in MY opinion, but to each his own

Creston


Edit : Well, it seems that the SIX hours per episode deal is already off, like some of us have predicted.

We really want to look at other competing forms of entertainment and have pricing that provides a great value to our customers comparatively. If you consider the cost of going to a movie or purchasing a DVD, that's what we want to compete with...Looking at those things, we are targeting a sub $20 price for three to six hours of gameplay per episode

Now it's THREE to SIX hours per episode. Does anyone still want to say how they feel this is good value for money?

This comment was edited on Jul 7, 09:29.
 
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215. Re: Stopped reading at page 9... Jul 6, 2005, 14:16 kanniballl
 
Not to piss on anyone or anything, but why is Sin2 always being referred to as an AAA title? If it was THAT good, you'd think Ritual would have found a publisher. It's kinda premature to heap this much glory on it, wouldn't you say?

As for AAA title, I don't know (though I really liked the original a lot) but I usually refer to AAA when I talk about the Half-Life or Doom series of games (or Warcraft, etc).

However, it's not like there weren't able to find a publisher. They (supposedly) weren't able to find a publisher that would give them the freedom to make the game they want.

From the article:
"We talked to publishers about doing it, but we never felt able to make the product we wanted to make with the next SiN." That is, until the relative freedom offered by Steam came along; something several developers must be seriously looking into at this point.


Most game publishers will try to mold the game to their "standards" even if they didn't finance the game. So thanks to a contract you're either forced or coerced into changing something in the game they don't like.

I don't mind Sin2 taking the Steam route so much anymore. And as for the price, we're talking about $20USD every 3 (or so) months. While I'd prefer $15 a-pop, small money spread out over the course of months isn't so bad. It's not like we're "renting" the game (yet), we're just buying it in smaller chunks. So over the course of 9-12 months I've spent only a little more than a regular game.

"Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you."
-Fry, Futurmama

This comment was edited on Jul 6, 14:35.
 
"Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you."
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214. Re: Stopped reading at page 9... Jul 6, 2005, 13:26 Beamer
 
Nope, nowhere near finished it. I thought the pacing was awful. I thought the atmosphere was well done, but in those three hours I had almost all the weapons and every monster (outside of pinkie) was basically handled the same way. I didn't see anything to look forward to, and was growing very tired of the game play.


And I agree that 6 hours is a bit too close to a demo. Take me with a grain of salt, though, I'm the same person that has claimed that I haven't purchased dozens of games because I got all the play time I needed out of the demo. Sin may be included, as I think I played the demo through about 10-15 times and moved on to the next game without ever buying the full version. It's not that I'm cheap, I often just get tired of a game through the demo before the game is even released.




I also wish someone had told me Riley was simply an argumentative troll, too. I thought he might be arguing a point people actually believed, not just himself. Mostly because Zeph always says the exact same thing, only blown even further out of proportion.

 
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213. Re: Stopped reading at page 9... Jul 6, 2005, 13:17 Creston
 
First off, I'm surprised no-one has mentioned NWN. Seems their gold-edition modules are selling quite nicely, thank you very much. Also seems that some of those modules are produced by ex-modders...which I really like. Sure, there's no Steam, but the 'episodic delivery' seems to work fine. No one complains about those modules being digital only, either.

Well, it IS slightly different. Everyone already HAS that game, you're just buying what are basically expansion packs. There's a difference between episodes for the complete game, and episodes for add-on content.

Sin2 will be pretty much the first episodic based AAA game delivered over a digital content delivery system. Start arguing from that perspective and maybe we'll listen

Not to piss on anyone or anything, but why is Sin2 always being referred to as an AAA title? If it was THAT good, you'd think Ritual would have found a publisher. It's kinda premature to heap this much glory on it, wouldn't you say?

I'm sceptical of an episodic FPS. Especially for $20 a pop. $10 I would pay, maybe even $15, but $20 is just too high for a glorified demo. I realy think the pricing needs some work; maybe $20 for the first episode (I do realise there's some dev costs which have gone into that) and $10 for the next episodes ('cause, you know, the tech is there so we're only paying for texture/model/level work).

I'd accept 15 all around, or the 20/10/10 model if the game turns out to be 3 episodes long.
I won't pay 3x20.


Edit : 6 hours is actually much more than I got out of Doom 3. I got 3. I gave it to a friend who got 2. So for $55 or whatever (I bought it full price) I got 5 hours.

You didn't finish it, though, did you? You probably got bored after 3 hours. That's a slightly different concept. I enjoyed Doom 3, although it did get pretty repetitive (but then again, I've replayed it three times since, I enjoy its atmosphere), and the first time through it probably took me around 20-25 hours or so. Ofcourse, I was walking like a little girl, screaming at every shadow and hiding in every nook



Creston

This comment was edited on Jul 6, 13:19.
 
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212. Re: Stopped reading at page 9... Jul 6, 2005, 13:16 MacD
 
Ah, shit...don't tell me he went away between page 9 and 11? I skipped those. I'm sorry if he'd gone away and I potententially made him come back

Sorry 'bout that...

 
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211. Re: Stopped reading at page 9... Jul 6, 2005, 13:09 nin
 
Now, as for Riley Pizt. Your information is wrong and biased, and your logic is contorted.

NO! It CAN'T BE!

Riley will argue the color of the sky with you...


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210. Stopped reading at page 9... Jul 6, 2005, 13:06 MacD
 
First off, I'm surprised no-one has mentioned NWN. Seems their gold-edition modules are selling quite nicely, thank you very much. Also seems that some of those modules are produced by ex-modders...which I really like. Sure, there's no Steam, but the 'episodic delivery' seems to work fine. No one complains about those modules being digital only, either.

As for Steam itself: any programmer will tell you a 57 mb footprint for a program like that is insane. I really don't know what the hell is taking up the memory...textures it aint, I do know that.

Now, as for Riley Pizt. Your information is wrong and biased, and your logic is contorted.

First fact: HL2 on Steam is expensive due to contract law. It's been widely commented on by Vivendi, Valve and numerous forums. Valve would LOVE to lower it's price to compete with B&M...but as soon as they do that, Vivendi would sue their ass off and win. So HL2 can not be used as a comparison. Sin2 will be pretty much the first episodic based AAA game delivered over a digital content delivery system. Start arguing from that perspective and maybe we'll listen.

But what really convinced me you're either young or very naive (or maybe even old and carmudgeonly...mentaly defective at any rate) was when you started shouting that people should start mailing money to developers for nothing. That and your ill-concieved notion that getting the same team of dev's together from a defunct company was possible, let alone would give that company the same vibe it had before the split up. And you argued that with something along the lines oif 'hey, it could happen if the profit expected was large enough'.
Riley: grow up and learn how the real world works, because it doesn't work like you think it does. Contractual obligations alone of all the employees who have found new jobs would prevent such a reunion. And even if you got them all together again (from the recptionist [important for the mood of a company, that one] to all the texture artists to the gamedesign dudes), something which is impossible to do even if some hadn't died or gone on to different industries, the vibe of the company would not be the same, leading to different games than they would have made if they had not had to disband.
Riley, if you couldn't have thought of that by yourself (or if you still defend your poiunt of view), you are seriously mentally defective. Go out into the real world, work with some people...get some RL experience and maybe then come back to post here.

OT again: I'm sceptical of an episodic FPS. Especially for $20 a pop. $10 I would pay, maybe even $15, but $20 is just too high for a glorified demo. I realy think the pricing needs some work; maybe $20 for the first episode (I do realise there's some dev costs which have gone into that) and $10 for the next episodes ('cause, you know, the tech is there so we're only paying for texture/model/level work).
I'll just have to see the screenshots/movies for this one /and read the reviews/ before I decide.

 
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209. Re: Nice try Jul 6, 2005, 11:05 Beamer
 
6 hours is actually much more than I got out of Doom 3. I got 3. I gave it to a friend who got 2. So for $55 or whatever (I bought it full price) I got 5 hours.

HL2, no clue how long that took me to play. A week and a half I think, maybe 12-15 hours? Probably about 30 in CS:S (I may be being kind to myself) and another 8-10 in HL:S. Got my money's worth there.

Far Cry, that was probably 15 hours, maybe a bit more. Well worth the $20 I paid. Max Payne 2 I loved, even if it was like 8 hours.


But I prefer my games to be shorter. The really long games I never finish. If it's over 20 hours I'll probably lose interest long before I finish, then if I come back I'll be lost and start over. I never finished the first Fallout for this reason, never finished Jagged Alliance 2 (my all time favorite game, one I've put probably 80+ hours into), I could probably name more.

If I can't beat a game in two weeks I'm probably never going to.

 
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208. Re: Nice try Jul 6, 2005, 09:17 Creston
 
Probably the full game; then in about 10 months the 3 episodes of SiN 2 will be out and you'll probably be able to get the whole shebang for cheap. You'd probably also buy 2.5 full games instead of buying Half-Life 2 when it first came out, right?

No, I have no problem paying full price for a title. And yes, the few titles that stifted me with gameplay length (Max Payne 2, D3 expansion - although I did enjoy this one but I agree with you that it was a complete and total fucking ripoff at 35 bucks, and probably a few others) were heavily bitched at, and their developers are on a check first "list". Remedy's next title BETTER be at least 15-20 hours of gameplay, or I'm simply skipping it. I'm not here to pay full price for half a game, especially not if it's nothing but a mod for their original game, rather than a real sequel. (As you can tell, I have little love for Max Payne 2.)

The D3 expansion actually came out at a time when I was maddeningly bored and just needed SOMETHING new. Sin 2's first episode MIGHT go that same way, but it better hurry because I'm counting down the days 'till X3.

It's just that, to me, the 6 hours is ridiculous. First of all, this is probably already exxagerated, and most of us will finish it in 4, and that's one sitting, and that's too short a value for me.
Also, I find a price of 20 bucks to be heavy for episodic content. If they made it 10 or 15 bucks, I'd be far less antagonistic against it.

I'm not a bargain bin hunter, but there are several games that I refuse to buy full price, and simply wait until they're in the 20 bucks range. Vampire bloodlines is one of them.

Especially since we're on the cusp of an inflation and market bulge induced price increase to 60 bucks.

I think that will happen for consoles, not necessarily for the PC, but that's just a guess on my part.

And I'll be highly surprised if there won't be special deals for getting all the episodes at once. (Look at Half-Life 2: You could get the entire back catalog for less than 10 bucks; games that cost like 35 bucks if you bought them seperately)

Well, that entire back catalog was 5+ years old. If they charged full price for it, nobody would have bought it. Well, except all the "Oh my God, Valve peed on me!!!1!1one!1!" fanboys.
(for those who don't get the reference : http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php?date=2005-05-27&res=l )
I think you're right in that once all the episodes are out, they'll charge cheaper for them, so I'm probably waiting until that point.

I just don't feel that Ritual has ever produced anything that great that they can now be the front runners of this new format, nor that their new game will be worth 60 bucks when all is said and done.

Creston

This comment was edited on Jul 6, 09:20.
 
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207. Re: The game will bomb. Jul 6, 2005, 09:07 Creston
 
Creston have you been scamming the theaters with the old '1 Senior Ticket' scheme again?

Now that's just plain cold...

Don't give away my secret!

Nah, theaters here aren't that expensive. 4.50 if you go before 6pm (I usually catch the last pre 6pm show once I get out of work), and I think it's 7.50 after. It's much appreciated, believe me. I lived in London for awhile, and paying 19 dollars (approximately) for a movie ticket was getting really annoying.

Creston


 
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206. Re: Nice try Jul 6, 2005, 05:52 Undead Scottsman
 
I'm still not getting what took everyone so long in Half-Life 2. I waited six years for that game and when I got it I took my sweet time and explored every nook and cranny I could find; even doing stuff like talking to the vortigaunt in the tunnel until he started repeating himself; plus I got stuck in several areas and found others "quick reload AGAIN" difficult.

I'm still scratching my head to anyone who took longer than 15 hours to beat this game..

However, the D3 expansion was just plainly short, IMO. Not worth the 35 bucks at all; had it been 20 however, it would have been worth it. (If, you know, Doom 3 had engaging gameplay in the first place, but that's another story)

EDIT: All the same, I've beaten Half-Life 2 four times now and gotten hours of enjoyment out of Counterstrike: Source and HL2: DM, so it was beyond worth the 50 dollar investment, IMO.

This comment was edited on Jul 6, 05:53.
 
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205. Re: Nice try Jul 6, 2005, 05:18 World war 3
 
It´s really sad to hear you only get so little playtime out of these games. I usually take ass-long to get through these games, and have a lot of fun doing so.

Does anyone know of any scans of the PCGUK article?

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204. Re: Nice try Jul 5, 2005, 21:41 Undead Scottsman
 
However, their decision to go episodic also puts them in the exact price range as full length bargain bin titles. Vampire : Bloodlines and Painkiller are both 30 bucks now, and I'm guessing they'll drop another 10 within the next three months or so.
Which one am I gonna pick up? The six hour episode, or the full game for 20 bucks?

Probably the full game; then in about 10 months the 3 episodes of SiN 2 will be out and you'll probably be able to get the whole shebang for cheap. You'd probably also buy 2.5 full games instead of buying Half-Life 2 when it first came out, right?

The thing is; I'd be willing to bet that most people are NOT bargain hunters: they see the bargain bin area as shovelware trash and ancient games that they either already have or really didn't want in the first place.

Like I said before

Half-Life 2: $50: Completed in 11 hours
Doom 3 Exp: $35: Completed in 6 hours.

If Ritual can keep to the 20 dollars for 6 hours of entertainment (18 hours for 60 bucks) then they'll be giving a great value as far as games are concerned. (To say nothing of shorties like Max Payne 2). Especially since we're on the cusp of an inflation and market bulge induced price increase to 60 bucks.

And I'll be highly surprised if there won't be special deals for getting all the episodes at once. (Look at Half-Life 2: You could get the entire back catalog for less than 10 bucks; games that cost like 35 bucks if you bought them seperately)

 
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203. Well... Jul 5, 2005, 20:09 theyarecomingforyou
 
However, over here a lot of banks offer check cards. They're normal ATM/debit cards but can be used as credit cards (usually Visa). So, you can use it for online purchases, but instead of automatically going into debt it takes the money directly out of your checking (or savings) account. I know people that use this as their only "credit" card so they don't have to worry about falling into debt.

I've not seen them over here... that sort of thing would be very useful. It's just so archaic that in this day and age that we are so limited in what we can buy due to the "brand" of money.

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202. Re: The game will bomb. Jul 5, 2005, 20:05 Fantaz
 
2 days till something happens.

http://www.ritual.com/splash/

 
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201. Re: The game will bomb. Jul 5, 2005, 19:32 The Half Elf
 
Creston have you been scamming the theaters with the old '1 Senior Ticket' scheme again?

Speaking of movies I have yet to see Batman, Mr Mrs Smith and War of the Worlds.

*screams* Tension breaker.... had to be done.

 
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