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Vampire Bloodlines Patch

A new unofficial patch for Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines, offering some bug fixes while updating the orphaned Source-engine RPG by now-defunct Troika Games to version 1.5. As always, this is an unsupported release, but with no one to support any other releases, the point seems moot. The download can be found on 3D Gamers, FilePlanet (registration required), Gameguru Mania, and Worthplaying.

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56. Re: No subject Jun 13, 2005, 10:26 Muscular Beaver
 
Yeah one of the worst, just like the HL2 one.

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Oh that is so lame... You will PAY for your use of inappropriate dialogue!
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55. Re: No subject Jun 12, 2005, 23:44 Prez
 
Come to think of it, the end-boss battle of Max Payne 2 WAS pretty frickin' stupid. Loved the game overall, though.

 
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54. Re: No subject Jun 12, 2005, 18:39 cappy
 
And apologies for the Kirk/Nomad quip. It was meant to be a tongue in cheek one-off but came off wrong when I re-read it in the context you put it in.

 
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53. Re: No subject Jun 12, 2005, 18:27 Jarek Forhanon
 
Well-constructed argument. I see your point. Many boss fights are fairly implausible, as you have to shoot specific areas, destroy certain mechanisms, exploit certain patterns, etc, in order to defeat the boss. I guess I just find these conventions more acceptable than defeating a boss through conversation.

This comment was edited on Jun 12, 18:29.
 
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52. Re: No subject Jun 12, 2005, 18:05 cappy
 
Jarek -

The problem is that you're rationalizing that certain types of end-bosses will not fall to logic or talking to, and then you carry that argument toward games like Fallout, Planescape, etc. where actually, those particular bosses (The Master in Fallout, The Transcendent One in Planescape, or Nomad in Star Trek) are specifically susceptible to certain types of logic due to the peculiarities of their characters.

They're not the types of bosses you're describing.

The game-makers for Fallout and Planescape understand that some gamers want to have big boss-battle rather than wade through dialogue trees (which are dependent on the gamer following a particular strategy which makes those dialogue trees available in the first place - a power-gamer who likes to wade in and melee/destroy everything in their path is quite likely never to see those dialogue options anyway).

So rather than having the usual simple choice available in your typical FPS - big boss-battle, you ended up with choices - in Planescape you could battle the big boss by yourself, with a single party member or more party members (depending on choices), kill yourself which also destroys the end-boss, or use varying degrees of logic.

The Master's unique goals and characteristics were akin to Nomad's in the old Star Trek episode, and very susceptible to certain forms of logic.

You've basically been going down two paths with your arguments:

1) That you don't apparently like the concept of a boss who can be brought down with logic. In that case, if you ever play Fallout or Planescape, you can play it the way you want. The developers were kind enough to give a range of choices for a range of players.

2) That certain types of bosses aren't vulnerable to logic. That's correct, but those are the bosses in your typical FPS, in the IWD games, Diablo, Dungeon Siege, etc. For whatever reason, the developers of Fallout and Planescape chose to make these particular bosses have a weakness because their entire entity was built around a faulty form of logic.

I understand you're arguing realism and pyschology, but realism doesn't necessarily translate to games or other forms of entertainment, and psychology is not always terribly predictive due to the changes the human mind undergoes throughout time and the events a person is exposed to.

The Achilles heel or critical hubris that a particular villain has is deeply embedded in human entertainment throughout recorded time, along with the way that they were defeated through the discovery of that flaw.

Take Max Payne 2 - you can't kill Vladimir Lem at the end, no matter how many rounds you pump into his body (a tad unrealistic, but so are many rocket launcher battles). Instead, you have to knock out pins holdings his platform up to drop him to his death (similar requirement for ending Max Payne 1).

Developers have done myriad forms of defeating end-bosses by requiring the player to do more than shoot-dodge and pump tons of rounds into their adversary - destroy X-gadget and end-boss becomes weakened. Um, whatever, but it's a common convention used.

I don't see much difference with the end-boss having a critical flaw in logic, particularly if the end-boss' entire existence is based upon the flawed logic. And again, the developers in the cases of Fallout and Planescape were kind enough to allow different types of gamers to defeat the end-boss in different ways.

 
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51. Re: No subject Jun 12, 2005, 16:44 Jarek Forhanon
 
Let me guess. You haven't actually played Planescape : Torment have you, and decided to have a whine on principle? Because if you had, you'd realise that it DOES make perfect sense to talk to the end "boss", considering what it is.

You are correct, I have not played Planescape. In my post, I was actually referring to Fallout, but regardless, Planescape's villain must be very atypical for conversation to work against him.

Captain Kirk should have fought Nomad instead of using logic...

Sorry, don't watch Star Trek so I have no idea who Nomad is. I'm assuming you are trying to be sarcastic though, so in that vein...

Luke Skywalker should have used logic against the Emperor instead of fighting him...

Luke should have also used logic against the Yeti thing in The Empire Strikes Back instead of killing it...

etc etc etc

As I've said before, if a villain has no emotions or ego, then it is plausible that they could be convinced into committing suicide or surrendering. Otherwise, any villain with power will cling to that power, despite any engaging conversation you may throw at it.


 
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50. Re: No subject Jun 12, 2005, 14:03 cappy
 
Captain Kirk should have fought Nomad instead of using logic...

 
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49. Re: No subject Jun 12, 2005, 13:18 PHJF
 
Planescape's boss was far, far more... *unique* than other bosses.

Talking it to death was a much more viable option than, say, talking a Lich to death. Or undeath. Or redeath. Whatever.

------
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48. Re: No subject Jun 12, 2005, 11:34 Beamer
 
Planescape was ok visually, but felt clunky. Running across a town could be lengthy, and you were never certain if you were missing something, if you'd been in a building, etc. Fallout had a similar problem.

Newer games are less likely to have it thanks to different camera options (and more variation in the way areas look.) Some sadly still have it.

Truthfully, though, you get used to it after playing for a while. So it sets you back to start only.

 
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47. Re: No subject Jun 12, 2005, 10:58 Fion
 
The patch is unsupported because the company who made the game no longer exists people. Sheesh before blindly suggesting that it's pitiful that the devs didn't put out a patch, do a little research because they did before falling through.

As to Planescape. I agree, best CRPG I've played. Fallout is great but Planescape was better IMHO. Oh and yes, even though the game is years old, it's visuals are superb. I especially loved the spell effects.. no game has done them better.

As to Vampire: Bloodlines (the subject of this talk after all). You really have to be a player of the Pen & Paper RPG Vampire: the Masquerade or any other World of Darkness based RPG to REALLY get an idea of how good Bloodlines is. Yes it's buggy, yes it's combat system isn't the best for sure. But the RPG in this is wonderfully done and offers moment after moment that resonates with any Vampire: the Masquerade player. Oh and just for the record.. I was very successful with melee in the final battles. My Brujah was able to handle all the end bosses with ease.. save only the Sheriff.

 
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46. Re: Another Mirror Jun 12, 2005, 10:40 Muscular Beaver
 
Is there a high-rez mod for BG1? 'Cause I really enjoy the feel of it, but after BG2 and NwN, I find the blockiness a little off putting, to the point of not really enjoying replaying it...

I had the same feelings about it, and I fear it will be exactly the same with Planescape.

http://www.pocketplane.net/mambo/
Its BG1tutu. As said before, you need to have BG2 installed for it to work.

Planescape doesn't need a resolution shift, the visuals are the more stunning aspect of the game. All the animations are just done perfectly.

I heard a while back it was also more difficult to mod than other IE games for coding reasons...

Well, I am using an 22" monitor, and everything below 1024x768 looks awful to butt-ugly, no matter how good the graphics are.

________
I'm not... gonna... cry... you... dumb... doo-doo brain!
 
Avatar 12928
 
Oh that is so lame... You will PAY for your use of inappropriate dialogue!
- Mojo Jojo
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45. Re: Another Mirror Jun 12, 2005, 10:00 jsmith1994
 
Too much choice becomes absurd. There should remain some semblance of reality, some notion of logic.

Let me guess. You haven't actually played Planescape : Torment have you, and decided to have a whine on principle? Because if you had, you'd realise that it DOES make perfect sense to talk to the end "boss", considering what it is. And you DON'T spend most of the came destroying his minions and foiling his plans, you know. Planescape isn't your typical stupid "adventurer saves the world" rpg. You aren't fighting to save the world, rescue the princess or recover the sacred amulet of super powerness. You're trying to solve a mystery about your identity.

This comment was edited on Jun 12, 10:00.
 
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44. Re: Another Mirror Jun 12, 2005, 09:56 Mad Max RW
 
Is there a high-rez mod for BG1? 'Cause I really enjoy the feel of it, but after BG2 and NwN, I find the blockiness a little off putting, to the point of not really enjoying replaying it...

There is, but you need BG2 installed. Essentially it converts the entire game over.

 
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43. No subject Jun 12, 2005, 09:55 Prez
 
I am grateful to those who made this patch - unsupported as it is. I love it when people band together and refuse to let a good game die.

 
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
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42. Re: Another Mirror Jun 12, 2005, 07:44 MysterD
 
Vampire: BL is the best RPG I've played since Planescape and Morrowind.

 
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41. Re: Another Mirror Jun 12, 2005, 04:49 Jarek Forhanon
 
Challenging a mastermind to a game of logic, or something, and then beating them at the game would be a fitting ending. The mastermind's ego can't handle it, he loses it, and kills himself/herself.

Fair enough. But what if the final boss isn't a mastermind? What if he is simply a tyrant, a warlord or some other powerful being who has grown corrupt and abuses his power? Such characters are driven purely by ego and will destroy anything that challenges this ego, so the likelihood of them even considering your words is about as likely as them surrendering or committing suicide. Hitler killed himself because he realized that he had lost the war and he refused to allow himself to be captured and persecuted by the Allies. Were Hitler an extremely powerful being, capable of defeating all who stood before him with ease, do you honestly think he'd take the time to sit and talk with you?

The thing with strong villains is that they have convictions. These convictions almost always override logic and rationality, so you can't win any argument or debate against them. Now, if the villain is an A.I. construct, then it would be plausible that they could be convinced to destroy themselves because they are governed by rules of logic. However, any villain with emotions would never be so practical. Ultimately, just as in reality, when words fail, brute force prevails.

Also, in Silence of the Lambs, is the person who Lecter convinces mentally unstable? On medication? Depressed? I know that in Hannibal, Lecter persuades some drugged up guy to tear off his own face, but that has more to do with the drug influence than psychology.


This comment was edited on Jun 12, 04:59.
 
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40. Re: Another Mirror Jun 12, 2005, 04:38 .Drifter
 
Too much choice becomes absurd. There should remain some semblance of reality, some notion of logic. If you encounter a a Dark God of Destruction, you shouldn't be able to convince him to change his ways. Likewise, if you encounter a flesh-eating zombie, you shouldn't be able to engage in a civil discussion and turn him into a hippy. The final boss of any game should be your greatest adversary. You should fear him/she/it and become giddy with excitement as you take your final steps towards the final encounter. If the final boss can be dissuaded from annihilating you through simple words, what kind of a threat is he? The absurdity of persuading a final boss to stand down is only augmented when you consider that throughout the game, you are constantly foiling his plans, destroying his minions and generally being a pain in the ass.

Hanibal Lecter.
In Silence of the Lambs he talks someone into killing themselves by attacking them psychologically. With words.
And if the vilian is a mastermind, coming up with traps, minions, and other such things to stop or kill you, how is this mastermind resorting to a physical beatdown any more based on reality than talking him to death? I mean seriously, if he/she were the mele type, you would have fallen under a direct attack from them a lot sooner in the game than at the end.
Challenging a mastermind to a game of logic, or something, and then beating them at the game would be a fitting ending. The mastermind's ego can't handle it, he loses it, and kills himself/herself.

 
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39. Re: Another Mirror Jun 12, 2005, 04:31 Gen. Hospital
 
Is there a high-rez mod for BG1? 'Cause I really enjoy the feel of it, but after BG2 and NwN, I find the blockiness a little off putting, to the point of not really enjoying replaying it...

 
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38. Re: Another Mirror Jun 12, 2005, 02:27 Saint Proverbius
 
Depends... If you consider arming a nuclear device violence,
no. Otherwise yes.

That depends on how you go about it. If you use stealth and lock picking, you can arm the device without fighting anyone, but you're still going to nuke a bunch of burned out LA. However, if you talked with the Brotherhood of Steel doc about mutants and how they can't reproduce and your speech skill is fairly decent, you can talk the Master in to killing himself. That way, the Master sets off the device instead of you.

Geneforge also was pretty good about allowing a player to kill off bosses with a high speech skill, but Geneforge is way more combat heavy than Fallout.


 
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37. Re: Another Mirror Jun 12, 2005, 01:17 PHJF
 
Planescape doesn't need a resolution shift, the visuals are the more stunning aspect of the game. All the animations are just done perfectly.

I heard a while back it was also more difficult to mod than other IE games for coding reasons...



------
“The closer you get to being a pro, the closer you can get to the client. The knife, for example, is the last thing you learn. Ok?"
 
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Steam + PSN: PHJF
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56 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 1.
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