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DICE NY Closed

This Digital Illusions' Press Release (thanks Frans) announces that DICE is closing their New York offices. DICE New York was the arm of the Swedish developer formed upon the acquisition of Trauma Studios, developers of the Desert Combat modification for Battlefield 1942. According to the announcement, the dozen employees of DICE New York are being offered the opportunity to relocate to Sweden, and that DICE Canada will continue to operate, focusing on expansion packs. The wording of the announcement makes it sound like this move enables DICE to renege on a scheduled payment:

Digital Illusions will not pay the supplement payment of 200,000 USD as agreed upon at the time of the acquisition of Trauma Studios. The total payment is thereby 300,000 USD. Following the adjustment for the default of payment of the additional supplement payment, the SEK 1.3m remainder of the value of goodwill is written down during the second quarter of 2005. Other costs of liquidation are diminutive.

Update: Gamecloud has a reaction from Frank DeLise of Trauma/DICE NY saying those not relocating to Sweden are being provided with severance packages, and he personally was taking a vacation before returning to game development.

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175. Re: No subject Jun 13, 2005, 15:29 JediLuke
 
Well, I'm not necessarily campaigning for it to be closed, if that would truly have worse repercussions; I haven't done much reading on that.

I agree that some progress has been made, but the only way to keep making progress is to make sure more people understand what's being done in their names. If people continue to not give a shit about lies, human rights violations, etc., things aren't going to get better.
 
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174. Re: No subject Jun 13, 2005, 15:20 cappy
 
JediLuke - Gitmo has been under more and more scrutiny. It's certainly not open access, but attorneys and even the media do have limited access to detainees. You're not going to get that with the rendering. The administration is very close-mouthed about the whole "extraordinary rendering" stuff, and the host countries will be exceedingly uncooperative for the status of detainees.

I consider Gitmo the lesser of the evils.

Your ideal situation would be that the detainees be either turned over to or at least afforded a similar form of justice as the American criminal system currently has. It's not going to happen overnight, which is why various groups have been steadily pressing on Gitmo, opening up new access here, changing the opinions of the public and career government officials (who realize they will still need to maintain a career after Bush and much of his administration effectively retire in just 3.5 years), etc.

Granted, progress hasn't been what people have hoped, but it has been made. That goes away if Gitmo is closed, and anyone who fights against this sort of thing starts back at square one, with a handicap, and a far harder uphill battle.

Trust me, anyone fighting for either the rights of any of the detainees or even a sense that America can treat even the worst criminals equitably despite their crimes, does not want Gitmo closed. Better to keep it open, keep the pressure on, and gain more access, and try to effect change in a more frustratingly slow manner than basically not at all.

 
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173. Re: No subject Jun 13, 2005, 15:03 JediLuke
 
Gitmo is the lesser of the evils and one that people are, to a controlled degree, keeping an eye on.

I'm not sure what you mean. Who is keeping an eye on it? And how is it the lesser of two evils? And is that supposed to excuse the human rights violations? As in, "Hey, at least we aren't as bad as the Soviets?"

You're also posing a false dilemma when you say that if it's closed things will only get worse.

What this discussion is about is the systematic, sanctioned abuse of prisoners who (if this Government believed in what America stood for),by all rights, should be completely Constitutionally protected. This discussion is about torturing people who should be considered innocent before proven guilty through due process as well as protected under the Geneva Convention. Offering alternative definitions of "torture" and "prisoner of war" are just weak, malicious attempts at creating loopholes and exceptions by which we can dehumanize and control individuals, entire segments of the society, and entire races of people.

Currently, citizens, green-card holders, tourists, illegal-immigrants, and anyone else who is detained on US soil are all entitled to Constitutional protection. Even if a US agency apprehends someone overseas, under US jurisdiction or custody, they're entitled to all of the legal protection that you and I enjoy. But these people in Guantanamo and Abu Graib, for some reason, are not. They're in US controlled territory in the custody of a US agency, aren't they? If we deny these people Constitutional protection, all of our rights are in jeopardy. Remember, it's not just a legal system that can be manipulated, it's a code of inalienable human RIGHTS that our founding fathers believed all people to be entitled to. If we deny these people their human rights, we are effectively labeling them as "not humans." Once that occurs, we can not occupy any kind of even remotely righteous moral highground. By dehumanizing them, we are dehumanizing ourselves.

http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/42719#955304


This comment was edited on Jun 13, 15:05.
 
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172. Re: No subject Jun 13, 2005, 14:56 cappy
 
I'd rather they keep Gitmo open than close it.

If they close it, the detainees will be sent "elsewhere" and not freed, and certainly not moved to an American prison.

"Elsewhere" is going to mean Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Pakistan, etc. Especially in the case of the former two, they sort of consider even the Abu Ghraib stuff to be Rated G stuff compared with what they do.

Hyperbole aside, Gitmo cannot be compared with a Soviet gulag or any of the successor prisons of the former Soviet states (such as in Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan). I was surprised Amnesty International used that terminology, because it either grossly exaggerates Gitmo's abuses or de-emphasizes the real ones that occurred in the gulag system.

Unfortunately, things being what they are, Gitmo is the lesser of the evils and one that people are, to a controlled degree, keeping an eye on.

Frankly, with the administration's preference for not answering questions on this sort of thing, I'm surprised they didn't shut it down long ago and say, "Detainees? Oh, we rendered them. Where? Sorry, can't say."

But then again, another aspect of the administration is mulish stubbornness.

 
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171. Re: No subject Jun 13, 2005, 14:50 JediLuke
 
it does not changre the fact that your argument is weakened by a lack of objective, credible sources.

What's an objective source, to you? Amnesty International isn't good enough? Help me believe that you don't just dismiss any information that conflicts with your pre-concieved ideas as biased and therefore invalid. Because that's sure what it seems like you're doing. How exactly is a news story about prisoner abuse left-leaning or Bush-bashing? Is that the standard these days? To be against torture is to be a Bush-bashing liberal, and therefore untrustworthy?


This comment was edited on Jun 13, 14:55.
 
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170. Re: No subject Jun 13, 2005, 14:42 Prez
 
Massacre of Vietnamese Civilians... I think you meant the Vietnam War and I think you're over simplifying what happened over there.

Tumbler, I believe you have misread what I wrote. The Vietnam war was not what I was speaking of. There are at least 2 recorded cases of American units killing vietnamese civilians. (As it happens, the scene in Oliver Stone's film "Platoon" is loosely based on one such event).But I would not generalize the entire war as a massacre. This misunderstanding is admittedly my fault, as I was not clear in my post. Apologies.

I think you're under the mistaken impression that I was having a coversation with you, Tumbler. I have no interest in your uninformed opinion on these things, I'm just posting them as a matter of record. And the "20th hijacker" didn't actually hijack anything.

Jedi, your going to have a hard time convincing someone that your opinion has merit when you resort to condesencion such as this. Post all the left-leaning, Bush-bashing sources you want - it does not change the fact that your argument is weakened by a lack of objective, credible sources. Also, I apparently have to share your unfounded, irrational cynicism in order to not be "blinded". Sorry, not going to happen.

As has become clear to everyone by now, this thread is going in circles, so this will be my final post. However, I hope to converse with you guys again soon. Or debate, whatever the case may be.

This comment was edited on Jun 13, 14:49.
 
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169. Re: No subject Jun 13, 2005, 14:13 JediLuke
 
I think you're under the mistaken impression that I was having a coversation with you, Tumbler. I have no interest in your uninformed opinion on these things, I'm just posting them as a matter of record. And the "20th hijacker" didn't actually hijack anything. However, for clarity:

"Some of M.C.'s descriptions match accounts given not only by other detainees, but also by former guards and interrogators who have been interviewed by The New York Times."

But clearly any evidence inconsistent with your worldview is a lie, etc.
This comment was edited on Jun 13, 14:15.
 
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168. Re: No subject Jun 13, 2005, 13:40 Tumbler
 
"One lawyer said that his client, a Saudi of Chadian descent, was not yet 15 when he was captured and has told him that he was beaten regularly in his early days at Guantánamo, hanged by his wrists for hours at a time and that an interrogator pressed a burning cigarette into his arm."

Lawyers lie.

Frankly I just don't believe this boy or his lawyer. Sorry. I think the log of treatment of the 20th hijacker, someone I would have expected to receive far worse treatment than a 15 year old boy, is extremely tame and I would expect this boys acutal treatment to be far lighter than the 20th hijacker.

 
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167. Re: No subject Jun 13, 2005, 13:11 JediLuke
 
"One lawyer said that his client, a Saudi of Chadian descent, was not yet 15 when he was captured and has told him that he was beaten regularly in his early days at Guantánamo, hanged by his wrists for hours at a time and that an interrogator pressed a burning cigarette into his arm.

The lawyer, Clive A. Stafford Smith, of London, said in an interview that the prisoner, who is now 18 and is identified by the initials M.C. in public documents, told him in a recent interview at Guantánamo that he was seized by local authorities in Pakistan about Oct. 21, 2001, a few months shy of his 15th birthday, and taken to Guantánamo at the beginning of 2002."

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/13/politics/13gitmo.html?ex=1276315200&en=9dd1b075e5c81c00&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss
 
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166. Re: No subject Jun 13, 2005, 13:02 JediLuke
 
"Basically, I accepted the point, at least as far as the struggle against Al Qaeda and its imitators was concerned, but it's striking how often the hard men who make the hard decisions to fight it out in the shadows snatch the wrong people, then fail to follow through. Only after a new commanding officer had arrived and official inquiries had issued their reports did we learn that 40 percent of those penned up at Guantanamo never belonged there in the first place. At Abu Ghraib in Iraq, the record was even worse: two-thirds of the detainees were eventually said to have been innocent of terrorist links. At least when they were picked up. Who knows what leanings they developed or links they forged during and after their interrogations?"  
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165. Re: No subject Jun 13, 2005, 12:57 Tumbler
 
The interrogation techniques included refusing al-Qahtani a bathroom break and forcing him to urinate in his pants.

Afterward, interrogators began their sessions with al-Qahtani at midnight and awakened him with dripping water or Christina Aguilera music if he dozed off, the magazine article reported.

The magazine said the techniques approved by Rumsfeld included "standing for prolonged periods, isolation for as long as 30 days, removal of clothing, forced shaving of facial hair" and hanging "pictures of scantily clad women around his neck."

Hagel said such treatment should offend the sensibilities of "any straight-thinking American, any straight-thinking citizen of the world."
I'm sorry but I don't find a lot to be outraged about here.
He peed his pants, he stood for a long time, had to take his clothes off. Sounds reasonable considering he's the 20TH FUCKING HIJACKER THAT WE CAPTURED IN AFGHANISTAN.

If that makes me an ignorant brute, so be it.

And on a side not my GF burst out laughing when the news talked about this last night and said, "good, serves them him right." So the comment about straigh-minded people being outraged about this treatment I find ridiculous.

And to dive further into defending this I have to say if this is the worst of what they did down there, humiliation and making them uncomfortable, I have no complaints. They acted in a manner I would call acceptable under the circumstances. I don't particularly care for President Bush but if this is how we conducted ourselves I have to say bravo.

This comment was edited on Jun 13, 13:03.
 
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164. Re: No subject Jun 13, 2005, 12:48 Tumbler
 
Jediluke I have just realized how humorous the name you've chosen is. I think you're consumed with rage over what you see as an injustice. And rage as we all know is a path to the dark side... Mabye your name should be SithLuke.

No one is calling you a traitor or calling you names at all, at least I'm not, but each time someone responds, you come back with attacks and telling everyone else how foolish they are because we don't see things your way.

From where I sit you're the one pretending. Things aren't perfect but they are not nearly as bleak as you present them.

As far as Identifying myself with my country well, you're right. Americans have a fierce sense of nationalism. And I hope it stays that way. I think of being an american like being married. Even if America does something very wrong I'm sticking with her and defending her as best I can. That doesn't mean we won't talk about it behind closed doors.

 
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163. Re: No subject Jun 13, 2005, 11:53 JediLuke
 
This is not a black mark on our country. Shit happens.

I thought you had gotten enough sense to bow out of this discussion. Is your intention to make yourself sound more ridiculous?

Whatever, I'm going to take my own advice. Knock yourselves out guys. USA! USA! USA!

Edit: June 13, 2005: WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay drew fresh criticism Sunday following a Time magazine report on a logbook tracing the treatment of a detainee who officials believe was intended to take part in the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

"I don't know why we didn't learn from Bagram," she added, referring to a U.S. base in Afghanistan. "I don't know why we didn't learn from Abu Ghraib [prison in Iraq], but here we are in Guantanamo with many of the same things surfacing."

"Right now they have no particular legal framework with it," he said. "We want other countries to adhere to the rule of law, and at Guantanamo, we are not."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/06/12/gitmo.time/index.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/12/magazine/12TORTURE.html?


This comment was edited on Jun 13, 12:42.
 
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162. Re: No subject Jun 13, 2005, 11:49 Tumbler
 
The Mexican American War. Slavery. Massacre of Vietnamese civilians. Closing a blind eye to genocide in Rwanda.

Massacre of Vietnamese Civilians... I think you meant the Vietnam War and I think you're over simplifying what happened over there.

Closing a blind eye to Genocide in Rwanda? Isn't the UN responsible for that? Why didn't the countries in Europe respond? This is not a black mark on our country. Shit happens.

I am full aware of the history of this country
It sure feels like you are not because our history is almost the opposite of the way you talk about it. Can you think of 5 things we did that are not black marks?

 
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161. Re: No subject Jun 13, 2005, 11:24 JediLuke
 
You're only reinforcing my point. You're blinded by pride for your country. You're so invested in the idea of America always being right that you quickly dismiss any evidence to the contrary. That's the only reason you'd say things like "My country is better than that," which makes absolutely no sense. No country is better than anything. Countries are just made up of people that come and go. And the fact that you refer to it as your country speaks to how much you identify it with yourself, which makes it even harder for you to think of it as doing something wrong, because that would make you wrong by association. America is just an idea, and it's a damn good idea, but we don't have a history of living up to that idea very well, and we certainly aren't doing very well right now. But I guess it's easier to just pretend that nothing is wrong, and all of the people who think so are traitors, and none of this info is credible, and our government knows best.

Dissent is a much more American concept than blind allegiance. But hey, do whatever helps you sleep at night...
This comment was edited on Jun 13, 11:39.
 
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160. Re: No subject Jun 12, 2005, 23:29 Prez
 
That is your opinion. There have been things the U.S. has been involved in throughout history that I'm not proud of. The Mexican American War. Slavery. Massacre of Vietnamese civilians. Closing a blind eye to genocide in Rwanda. Many things. I am full aware of the history of this country, but these black marks stand out BECAUSE they are so much in contrast of what America stands for. I AM NOT ashamed in any way about the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, and in fact I am quite proud that the U.S. had a hand in freeing the citizens of 2 countries from oppressive regimes. And please, spare me the remarks about trading one opressive regime for another. If you don't see a difference between America and the Taliban, I don't know if I really wish to continue conversing. Call me what you will, but my country IS better than that.

 
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159. Re: No subject Jun 12, 2005, 23:08 JediLuke
 
The U.S. always has been and always will be better than that.

I don't think you're stupid, but I do think you're in denial.


This comment was edited on Jun 12, 23:09.
 
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158. Re: No subject Jun 12, 2005, 23:06 Prez
 
It's not that I'd rather brush it aside, but I do not consider it a bastion of objectivity. And yes, I know what metafilter is. It is a gathering place of like-minded Bush-bashers among other things. I have no doubt that left-leaning like-minded individuals enjoy it - it is CERTAINLY NOT the kind of place I would enjoy hanging out. I did read the articles, including the BBC one, btw. Oh yes. The BBC. The british media outlet that lost all credibility with me when they deliberately reported facts about the war wrong. I have heard all these same wrong-headed arguments before. Look, just because a federal judge rules one way in the prisoner matter does not prove anyone's case either way. Many of the previous rulings have gone in favor of the current U.S. policy, and I suspect any further ones will as well. Furthermore, I tend to believe my own military about the treatment of detainees before I take the word of one former detainee about whose agenda I have no idea. I'm sorry, but no amount of arguing is going to convince me that my government's standard operating procedure is to torture and mistreat inmates. The U.S. always has been and always will be better than that. Isolated incidents are just that - isolated. I didn't mean to sound dismissive about your point of view. We are going to have to agree to disagree, I'm afraid.

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157. Re: No subject Jun 12, 2005, 17:26 JediLuke
 
Metafilter is nothing like Rush Limbaugh. It's a community of over 20,000 users. There is no enforced agenda there, and there are plenty of users with differing points of view. What's more, metafilter doesn't generate the content, they just link to it. If you'd actually clicked the links, you would see that they were stories consisting of links to other sites, like the BBC. You could've read the stories and the ensuing discussion and had the full context, but I see you'd rather just brush it aside with a totally invalid analogy.


This comment was edited on Jun 12, 17:30.
 
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156. No subject Jun 12, 2005, 17:14 Prez
 
I have heard of Metafilter before. They are EXTREMELY anti-Bush, and hardly an objective source of information. I am not pro-Bush, but pro-American. I have no use for such slanted sites. Just as I imagine you would scoff if I put up a whole bunch of links to articles on Rush Limbaugh's site.

 
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