41 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 1.
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| 41. |
Re: No subject |
Nov 6, 2004, 17:17 |
tacomodo |
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Not everyone. I thought it was horrible
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| 40. |
Re: No subject |
Nov 6, 2004, 17:00 |
Fillem |
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Look it up on google its called RYLonline
is there also an English version? 
edit:
nm, found these:
http://www.rylsanctuary.com/index.php
www.ryl.net
hope the game is in Engrish...;)
This comment was edited on Nov 6, 17:09. |
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"Porno laughs are not funny, ok?"
-David Brent- |
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| 39. |
Re: No subject |
Nov 6, 2004, 14:09 |
Cheese |
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Well put mystic i do agree with you. I was playing a VERY early beta build like beta 1 i think so ive heard that they adjusted the gameplay for hardcore ppl like you and myself,
I cant wait for them to release it and i still have hopes for EQ2 as well.
Oh btw there is a great little gem of a mmorpg out atm its called RYL and they are having a open beta as im playing it atm, its a good little game that has a marvelous system and all who are testing it LOVE it so far.
Look it up on google its called RYLonline. peace 
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| 38. |
Re: No subject |
Nov 6, 2004, 12:50 |
mysticgeek |
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I agree quite a bit with what you have to say Arcoril. But don't you agree, it finally comes down to what the person playing the game likes. If YOU like EQ2, then nothing I can say about how great WoW is over EQ2 will turn you. And vice versa really.
One thing I can't agree on is your liberal use of "serious gamers" or "hardcore MMORPG players". I'm about as hardcore as a person can get...but you seem to generalize everyone into Hardcore=EQ2, Casual=WoW which is just too simplistic. Having played both the EQ2 and WoW beta, I'm only buying WoW. OH, and BTW Paludal Caverns was added in the Luclin expansion...some 2 years ago. So it's been in the game for quite a while now.
Also, as you know, the leveling get's slower as you progress. If you personally can get to level 30 in 3 days, does that mean you could get to 60 in 6 days? Have you tried? True, the high end isn't all there, but I have faith in Blizzard as they've yet to let me down on a game...unlike SOE/Verant. Of course, there is always a first time for everything.
And do you really think that EQ2 is all that new and exciting and worthy of your money each month? I personally don't. When they actually finish the game in about 6 months...using your dollars to fund their development...then maybe I'll have another look. But this past month on the beta has been nothing but me swearing and saying "I can't belive they are putting this out now".
Good luck to you, I hope it works out. There IS room for more than one online world out there.
This comment was edited on Nov 6, 14:21. |
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| 37. |
No subject |
Nov 6, 2004, 12:21 |
instant |
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Most of the people who play EQ have no life.
ANd if they continue playing the will have no wife, job or house either.
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| 36. |
haha |
Nov 6, 2004, 10:19 |
Cheese |
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I'll put it this way I will prob buy EQ2 just to see if its any good and i will buy Wow cause i think they will prob address alot of the content and problems before launch I do put alot of faith in Blizzard cause they rarly get things wrong.
If i sounded like i didnt like Wow please forgive me as i was play testing a early beta and not the final so things prob changed.
This comment was edited on Nov 6, 10:46. |
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| 35. |
honers vs. forgers |
Nov 6, 2004, 09:29 |
rist3903 |
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There used to be a lot less incentive to grouping in diablo II as well, but Blizzard worked on the problem and came up with a pretty decent solution. People have complained that Blizzard never does anything groundbreaking, but they are missing point about the company- Blizzard is a honer. They take an existing idea and fine tune it and make it better than the other guys product. They are not forgers by any stretch of the imagination.
That said, they continue to be honers after their games are released, meaning they recognize flaws in said games, many of which have been listed in this thread, and take steps to change their product- to unlock its full potential. The only downside to this is that it takes them freaking forever for their patches to come out, considering how much they realize how important those are.
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| 34. |
Re: No subject |
Nov 6, 2004, 09:12 |
Arcoril |
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Most of EQ2s income will come from players from Europe who has to wait for WoW.
And who cares about the hardcore players?? They are, what? 2% of the overall subscribers?
87.1378% of statistics are made up on the spot.
And most of the 400,000+ people currently playing EQ Live and Dark Age of Camelot would be self-described hardcore gamers. There is a market for hardcore gamers out there and it's a substantial one. Hardcore gamers are solid gold for MMORPG publishers--they're addicted and they maintain long-term subscriptions. So yes, companies are extremely interested in keeping the hardcore gamers addicted and playing their game.
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| 33. |
Re: No subject |
Nov 6, 2004, 08:57 |
tacomodo |
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Most of EQ2s income will come from players from Europe who has to wait for WoW.
And who cares about the hardcore players?? They are, what? 2% of the overall subscribers?
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| 32. |
Re: No subject |
Nov 6, 2004, 08:34 |
Arcoril |
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As polished and well put-together WoW is, the challenge just wasn't there for me . I found myself taking stupid risks all the time because there was absolutely no penalty for death except for a run back to my corpse. It just reiterates my point--WoW is casual. This is not a game for hardcore MMORPG fans. That's not an insult, mind you. The market has room for an MMORPG targeted at casual players and WoW fills that role quite well.
Blizzard is so afraid to introduce anything into the game that's not fun. That's an admirable philosophy, but be careful what you ask for--you just might get it. People who play through WoW have fun at most every corner and never really run into any frustrations or setbacks. This is good if you're a casual gamer. If you're more of a serious player, all of your achievements somehow feel hollow. Things are handed to you on a silver platter because you're never placed in a situation where you're challenged or have anything to lose. Even the misanthropic no-grouping-skills player next to you has the same gear that you have simply because he was persistent enough to repeatedly try encounters until he or his pickup group was successful.
As much as people hate frustration in games, getting any sort of real satisfaction isn't possible unless there was some risk involved. Unless you stand to lose something, anything you win will just feel hollow. Along with the poor state of grouping, this is where WoW fails in the eyes of more serious gamers.
Also, you preface your statements with the "pre-nerf Dwarven Mage". It's not the case anymore.
I'm not referring to any nerfed skills. In fact, mages today are roughly the same as when I played them months ago. By "pre-nerf Dwarven Mage", I'm referring to the change that removed the Dwarven Mage as a possible racial combination. Existing characters would be allowed to continue, but no new ones could be created. And really, a Gnome or Human Mage would be a far better choice as far as stats go. A Dwarven Mage isn't über--I chose it simply based on aesthetics. Regardless of the race/class combination, quickly leveling to 30 as a mage is still as much of a reality as it ever was.
I know how to powerlevel myself. Cheese made it seem like from casual playing he got to 30 in 3 days, which just isn't true. Then he deleted it from his HD? Doesn't that sound just a tad bullshitish to you? Why did he agree to beta test something, then just delete it 3 days later, and all of a sudden knows everything about the game?
But to address the fast leveling problem, I can level myself very quickly on any game for that matter. In EQ I could get to level 20 in a day...that's it...a day. One zone...Paludal Caverns. Does anyone complain about EQ being too quick to level?
I don't care what he said, but you flat out denied that 30 in 3 days was possible. I simply had to point out that it is in fact possible and that many people have done it.
Paludal Caverns doesn't really apply to this argument. That was added in, what, the LDON expansion? That zone has the highest experience modifier there is because it was designed that way. Much like DAOC, EQ is a mature game that's very content-heavy at the upper end. To help people get there, both games have introduced artificial ways to level your character through the lower levels. Camelot has the /level command (plus the free weekly levels) and EQ has high experience dungeons.
Both EQ and DAOC were different during their release, though. Leveling was relatively slow because much like WoW, the endgame wasn't in place yet. The difference in WoW is that it has the rapid leveling curve of a mature game without the high-level content. And considering the slow pace at which Blizzard added the little high-level content currently in beta, there's no way they can keep up with the pace at which serious gamers level and go through content.
This comment was edited on Nov 6, 08:45. |
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| 31. |
Re: No subject |
Nov 6, 2004, 07:56 |
mysticgeek |
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Yes I was being rude to Cheese on purpose because he seems to go out of his way to be rude to everyone else.
Also, you preface your statements with the "pre-nerf Dwarven Mage". It's not the case anymore.
And as I stated before, I specifically started a new character this week to see just to test how long it took, on average, to level. I play all day long, over 8 hours a day, and he's only at level 16 after 5 days. And this is just doing quests. This is just playing, it's not trying to powerlevel myself to see how fast I can get nor am I in a race.
I know how to powerlevel myself. Cheese made it seem like from casual playing he got to 30 in 3 days, which just isn't true. Then he deleted it from his HD? Doesn't that sound just a tad bullshitish to you? Why did he agree to beta test something, then just delete it 3 days later, and all of a sudden knows everything about the game?
But to address the fast leveling problem, I can level myself very quickly on any game for that matter. In EQ I could get to level 20 in a day...that's it...a day. One zone...Paludal Caverns. Does anyone complain about EQ being too quick to level?
But it all comes down to this, if you like EQ2 in it's present state, by all means buy it and play it. I've played WoW for months now and I'm buying it...but not EQ2. It's a personal thing when it just comes down to it. Good luck to you people going to EQ2 and I certainly wish you the best.
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| 30. |
Re: No subject |
Nov 6, 2004, 07:49 |
Awesome Spume |
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People suck tat this game because the game doesn't promote grouping. In fact, it encourages soloing. Experience is so much slower in a group that it's not even funny. What does this mean? The majority of people will still be n00bs at 60. The other day I met a 40 warrior who didn't know how to taunt. Priests commonly overnuke and draw aggro. Not to mention they go OOM and can't heal. Really, I mean, WTF?
EQ had (when I left about 3 years ago) the best group game going. I haven't seen anything since that really required you to play in a balanced team to the same degree (possibly DAOC. Actually it was so like EQ it wasn't funny. Lasted all of a month there before wiseing up).
What you're saying about WOW is 100% true for the majority of player. Most BETA tester seem to have come from a Diablo/Warcaft background, rather than a strict MMORPG. Nothing wrong with that but most groups I've been in a just a bunch of guys who target the same mob, if you're lucky. Partly because of this and partly because of my nature I've enjoyed soloing, and because death penalties are non-existent (compared to most RPGs) I've had fun just exploring sometimes.
Time and experience will correct problems with WOW grouping but I suspect nothing will correct problems with Sony.
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| 29. |
Re: No subject |
Nov 6, 2004, 07:31 |
Arcoril |
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Also, Cheese, you're simply lying if you say that you got your character to level 30 in 3 days in WoW. Yes, it's a bold face lie. If you wish to promote EQ2 then fine, promote it, but do NOT resort to blatent lying to do it. If you got your character to level 30 in 3 days, please, enlighten us on HOW you did that. What race/class combo did you use? Where did you go? How did you level so fast? Details? Hm...?
mysticgeek, I'm not speaking for Cheese, but I've also been able to level to roughly 30+ in around 4-5 days. 3 is certainly possible if I dedicated more time to it.
For instance, here's how I pulled it off as a pre-nerf Dwarven Mage:
My first character was a human, so I felt most comfortable outside of Stormwind. I left Ironforge for Stormwind as soon as I could and did random quests in Elwynn until I got to level 5. After level 5, I moved around to the area south of Goldshire and killed kobolds and random woodland creatures until 10 or so.
From 10-15, I went to Westfall and was grinding bandits and golems.
From 16-21, crossed over to Duskwood and killed wolves and spiders along the coast from Raven Hill to Darkshire.
From 22-26, killed undead inside the gates of Raven Hill. I also headed up to Southshore and killed bears and spiders in the surrounding area.
From 27-30, I went to Stonetalon and killed harpies in the valley.
If you can dedicate 8+ hours a day, this can easily be done in 3 days. You can also find complementary quests that ask you to kill the things you're grinding on. Harpies, golems, and wolves come to mind. Outside of those, though, doing any other quests will just slow you down because of the excessive travel time and poor experience rewards. After all, why spend 20 minutes doing a quest that nets 1200 exp when you could net the same 1200 exp in 10 minutes by killing 12 mobs that give 100 exp each?
And really, there's no need to be as rude to Cheese as you were. I'd like to point out that just because you can't pull off 30 in 3 days it doesn't mean that it can't be done. It can be done and I've certainly seen it done during the original stress test when people were competing to get the highest level characters. I'd also like to point out that the highest leveled people during the stress test all got there solo. Outside of killing the occasional hard mob, grouping was completely ineffective when it came to leveling.
This comment was edited on Nov 6, 08:14. |
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| 28. |
Re: About EQ2... |
Nov 6, 2004, 05:32 |
Valtyr |
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The problem is, they started overhauling things not even 4 weeks before launch. Now take their most recent game in mind, which is Star Wars Galaxies. SWG too shipped in an more then unready state, and the problems which simply ruin the game still aren't fixed. And considering what state EQ2 is shipping in, the problems it has now, will remain there for a .... well, let's say a while. Because the same people that made SWG, made EQ 2. Well, a lot of them anyways.
But after all, I guess it's all about what YOU like to play, and whatever game suits your style, have fun!
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| 27. |
About EQ2... |
Nov 6, 2004, 05:23 |
D4rkKnight |
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I needed a break from WoW after Beta, it was very easy, and I hit level 29 in a few days. The PvP was fun as hell, and we had some major wars (like 75+ people fighting sometimes) but the PvE had just lost its charm. I dont remember one single challenge during those 29 levels, and I was loosing interest in the constant questing, it seems thats all you do is look for more quests then go kill stuff.
I want to see interesting locations, temples, dungeons, exotic hunting areas. WoW had some of these, but they were all replicas of each other, with very little artistic style thrown in. I cannot speak for EQ2 in this regard, but I played EQ1 a ton and I know the land, so it will be very fun to get to see whats changed since then.
I look forward to EQ2 because its harder, and it DOES enforce groups...this is a social game and the concepts work best when your in groups of friends or guildies.
Obviously there's times when you want to solo, and the dev's have stated you will be able to solo, no matter the class (I hear priests are the best solo'ers ) , it just wont be as fast as group exp, which is supposed to be the main attraction...its like that to encourage you to group.
The Dev's have been listening to the fans as well. They have started a major overhaul to allow diversity between classes and races, to individualize each character. They already have an awesome character generator (that allows you to adjust stuff like bone structure in the face), and now they are adding stuff like:
Traits:
Sturdy - Your durability is the stuff of legend. This trait makes you more robust by increasing your total health.
Hygienic - Plague and illness are for the weak. This trait enhances your vigor by allowing you to avoid the effects of disease.
Healthy - Others marvel at your recuperative ability. You improve the rate at which your health recovers.
Insightful - You have traveled far and wide. This trait aids your journey to enlightenment by making you wiser.
Tactics:
The EverQuest II Tactics Advancement Path lets you pick certain types of enemies for which your character feels a particular dislike. By learning about these opponents, you gain special abilities that allow you and your party to do extra damage against them in battle.
Traditions:
Dark Elves -
* Shadow Shroud – The world is a dangerous place and life as a dark elf is never easy. By slowing your breathing and freezing in place, you are able to hide and escape detection by most foes.
Erudite -
* Ward of Glyphs – Years of arcane study have imbued the erudites with an innate defense against magical damage. By steeling your mind, you can call a protective ward into existence and guard yourself against harmful spells.
This comment was edited on Nov 6, 05:25. |
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| 26. |
Re: No subject |
Nov 6, 2004, 04:58 |
mysticgeek |
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I'm a MMORPG veteren of EQ/DAoC/AC/AO/SWG. I've played EQ on and off for almost 5 years, the others less so with DAoC and AO lasting over a year. I was on the EQ2 beta and the WoW beta. I kinda know what I'm talking about when it comes to these types of games. Also, I don't work (long story, but I'm handicapped) outside the home...which frees up a large amount of time to play and test these games.
Now, it's all subjective I suppose. I mean, if you like one game over the other, then so be it. No one is going to tell you that the one you choose is wrong because that only makes you defensive and it's not every constructive.
Having said that, I can only go by what MY experiences are with these two games. EQ2 just doesn't have it. It's lifeless. It's boring. Let me repeat that, it's boring. EQ2 has the feel that it was just put together by employees punching a clock. No life, not fun...just...blah. Also, putting this game out next week when it's in the state it's in shows that they don't really care about the game, all they look at is the bottom line. The numbers. "Let's get this game out now so we don't get bitten by WoW...we'll fix it later but let people start paying now for us to fix it". That's their attitude.
Also, Cheese, you're simply lying if you say that you got your character to level 30 in 3 days in WoW. Yes, it's a bold face lie. If you wish to promote EQ2 then fine, promote it, but do NOT resort to blatent lying to do it. If you got your character to level 30 in 3 days, please, enlighten us on HOW you did that. What race/class combo did you use? Where did you go? How did you level so fast? Details? Hm...?
To put it into perspective for you, I recently started an Undead Rogue on WoW this past week to track how long it took to level. On average this past week I played around 7 to 8 hours daily. Here at Saturday Morning I've only gotten him to level 16. That's it....16. After 5 days. By your calculation's Cheese I should be about level 50.
The thing is, I don't notice it. I'm not always striving to "make one more level" or "I really need to get a _______ (insert item here) so I can look better". It's not a leveling treadmill. And again, it's FUN. Remember fun? Fun is the REASON we play these games.
Now on to grouping. In EQ2 you have to group...no two ways about it. Grouping in WoW is needed on certain things that is a given. When you're doing Elite mobs for instance. When your taking down a major named mob you need a group. There is just no way to take them down unless you have a group. An instanced dungeon is another. Sure, you can solo all of this if you wait quite a while to level up about 15 levels above the instanced dungeon you want...but that's true of just about any game until you get into the high-end of the game.
But bottom line...I've been on the WoW beta for about 7 months now, the EQ2 beta for a month....I'm not at ALL tired of WoW but EQ2 is just...zzzzzzzz. By your account I should be bored with WoW now and wanting the "deeper content" of EQ2...but again, your experience may be different(though we now know Cheese hasn't played WoW yet).
This comment was edited on Nov 6, 05:01. |
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| 25. |
Re: No subject |
Nov 6, 2004, 02:18 |
Arcoril |
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Well Arcoril, if you prefer a game that forces grouping to gain any experience and discourages Noobs & casual play you can always play EQ2.
I for one LOVE the way they made WOW easy to play. It's the casual players MMORPG, but appeals to the hard core players as well to some extent.
Hey, I'm certainly not bashing WoW. It's a fun game and it's great for what Blizzard intended for it to be--a casual MMORPG. It's an easy game and it's not frustrating. Depending on what side of the fence you're on, this might be a good thing or a bad thing.
I can already tell that you're going to have a blast in WoW, and more power to ya. WoW was made with casual gamers like you in mind, and you're going to love being able to do things at your own pace and not be at the mercy of finding a group all the time.
I have tried EQ2, and I'll say straight up that it's not as fun as WoW. The difference is that EQ2 has been holding my attention for some months now. Does this mean that I'm encouraging people to play EQ2? Oh hell no. Chances are that if you're the kind of person who'd enjoy EQ2, you're already planning on playing it.
I'm not out to convert people to EQ2. I didn't even mention it in my last post. I don't think it's better than WoW. In fact, it could learn a lot from what WoW has done correctly. But for the people who are willing to listen, I am trying to point out WoW isn't everything the fanboys are saying it is. If you're serious about MMORPGs, you will have a ton of fun in WoW, but you'll burn out and get bored of it quickly.
Are you joking?!? WoW has excellent incentives to group. Every time I turn up to an area to complete a certain quest, I always find a few other people who also want to do it. Grouping with them takes a second, exp is shared, there are various settings for loot sharing, and most importantly quests can be completed simultaneously. ie: if we kill the boss and need to retrieve his head, then everyone in the group gets a copy of the boss's head - it's not realistic, but much more rewarding.
Although XP is halved when teamed with another player, I found that we cut through mobs much much faster, more than making up for that.
In fact, as I see it, there is no reason *not* to team up in WoW.
Collection quests are slower when grouped because the number of quest items you need to loot is multiplied by the number of people in your group. Keep in mind that the drop rate stays the same the entire time. And while other quests can be completed more quickly when grouped, there just aren't enough cooperative quests to keep you grouped all the time.
The point about things dying more quickly when grouped is moot. Things already die far too quickly and mobs in an area simply don't get repopulated quickly enough to support more than one person. Back when I was level 36, I was soloing all of the raptors that spawned near Refuge Pointe. This area was barely able to support one person, never mind two or more. And this isn't an isolated case either. It was the same thing everywhere--Desolace, Strangethorn Vale, you name it.
I could go on and on about what's wrong with grouping in WoW, but one of the most active members of the WoW community already made a very detailed post about it. If you're open-minded about listening to what we feel are serious flaws with the game, you can see the write-up here: http://www.fohguild.org/forums/showthread.php?s=140a616309e7f793d4acd7e136972e65&threadid=12685&perpage=15&pagenumber=2#post233063 (mirrored there since the WoW boards were wiped for the open beta/stress test)
This comment was edited on Nov 6, 02:30. |
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| 24. |
Re: No subject |
Nov 6, 2004, 01:33 |
Cheese |
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People who are veterans of EQ/AC/DAOC and other challenging MMORPGs are already bored with the game and have lost interest because they've already done everything that the game has to offer. And while Blizzard promises raid content post-release, people will blow through it very quickly. Considering the length of time it took Blizzard to add non-raid content during the beta, it doesn't look promising that they can keep up with the rate that even moderate gamers go through content.
WoW is fun if it's played casually. If you consider yourself anywhere between a moderate and hardcore gamer, you're going to be disappointed in the long run. Unlike what many fanboys want you to believe, WoW is not the greatest thing since sliced bread. WoW fills a niche in the MMORPG market, but unless you only play for 30 minutes a day, you're not going to be playing it for as long as you've played previous MMORPGs.
I couldnt agree more with this cause i was in beta and got to lvl 30 in like 3 days LOL and then i got bored with it all and uninstalled.
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| 23. |
Re: Uneventful? |
Nov 6, 2004, 00:24 |
Stin |
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Sony knows better than to launch a game with not enough servers to handle the stampede.
I take it you didn't play Star Wars when it was launched . . .
This comment was edited on Nov 6, 00:24. |
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| 22. |
Re: Everquest Rushed |
Nov 6, 2004, 00:23 |
Stin |
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Yeah, I felt the timing of the Beta closure was suspicious at best.
They have good reason to be worried - I played a bit of the stress test and thought it was well done, even at that stage. More importantly, my brother really got into it and he's a non-technical person (history grad). WOW has the opportunity to really hammer EQ's market share, if not knock them out of the running for top spot. |
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