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Out of the Blue

I am surprised to note that it's now been eight years now that I've been on the hardware accelerated bandwagon (I guess it's safe to assume the trend is here to stay). It was right about now in 1996 that I got my Vérité-based Rendition Reactor with which to play Quake. In these days when my current video card has more RAM than NASA did back then, it's fun to recall the joys of first pounding out the polygons with that sort of horsepower... I have to confess I still check out my framerates in Quake II after big upgrades to recreate those moments. Yeah, I'm a geek.

Link of the Day: Curiosities of Biological Nomenclature. Thanks Ant.
Stories of the Day: George Lucas to Receive 33rd AFI Life Achievement Award.
Sunday Halloween Irks Some in Bible Belt.
Science!: Japan 2005 Expo to Display Frozen Mammoth.
Global amphibians in deep trouble. Maybe soon it'll be frozen frogs?
Media of the Day: Barney - Rap Dragon at Kontraband. Thanks Dan K. Adult Lyric Advisory.
Thanks Mike Martinez.

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123. Re: Halloween on Sunday Oct 19, 2004, 12:30 Sixis
 
Perhaps it would be germane to point out that Bush is not, in fact, a born-again Christian, or Southern Baptist, or fundamentalist.

Before the flamers rise, let me say that I hate his fucking guts, hope he loses, and then hope that he is tried for war crimes for disregarding the geneva conventions. Not to mention all the other insane shit he's done.

On the religion issue, he's really still a Congregationalist like the rest of his family. There isn't any organized religion or major line of religious thought he follows. His "religious" decisions fall into three catagories:
1. Pandering to the base (stem cells, gay marriage) He really doesn't care about these, but his base is insane, and they do
2. "God-Complex" - He thinks the only way an idiot loser like himself could come to lead America during this crisis must be because God wants it. This makes him a loony, but not a fundamentalist, baptist, or anything else.
3. Normal political use of religious langauge to affect emotions and sound high-minded when you really aren't. This is as old as rhetoric.

If you don't like Bush because of his stance of religious issues, what you really don't like is the fact that the poor part of the Republican base has gone insane (they've been insane for a while now, but they used to be democrats before the party shakeup caused by the civil rights movements) and that Bush knows his position is so unlikely that God must be behind it (I prefer Satan as the Prime mover in this one).

Who am I kidding? No one reads posts that are a day old.
 
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122. Re: Halloween on Sunday Oct 19, 2004, 11:34 Enahs
 
Your all a bunch of naive tools’ of the man and the man trying to fight the man, thus’ becoming the man.


Company not talking about radicals, fundamentalist and hypocrites in a radical fundamentalist hypocritical way excluded (read:nobody that was in this conversation).


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Enahs
That’s a deep kiss too, like the Europeans. You know the French they have to unhinge their jaw to show love.
 
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121. Re: Halloween on Sunday Oct 19, 2004, 10:22 JediLuke
 
that's where i'll disagree 100%. if you have a religious belief, a true and real one, then that should be the most important thing in your life.

And you're wrong, as several people have just pointed out pretty clearly. That's one reason Bush is making a mockery of the presidency and is not fit to lead this country. The United States is not a theocracy, therefore by definition a President is responsible to his country before his religion, as Kerry seems to understand and Bush does not. Again I refer you to the NY Times article.

yes!, i just don't like absolutes like that. to say "*everyone* does or thinks this or that" is always a statement that falls flat.

It's not an absolute. That's like saying "Everybody has his own criteria for what makes a beautiful painting." Everyone believes what he wants to believe, whether that belief was inherited or not. The point is, 99.999% of the time, saying "I'm (insert religion)" doesn't mean "I follow every tenet and obey every commandment of (insert religion) and believe every letter of (insert holy book)." Fortunately, there are plenty of rational Christians who understand that the bible is a flawed document and who do not agree with every teaching of their religion.

Our nation is not affiliated with any religion, and attempts to twist around religious belief in order to wield greater political power, something done more and more often in the country today (and basically what warhawk was trying to do in this thread) are wrong.

but just because he says something that goes against your beliefs, or something that you find incredulous, doesn't mean he's trolling.

Give me a break. Just because he said something you agree with doesn't mean he isn't trolling. He derailed the thread with an unfounded and unnecessarily snarky personal comment about John Kerry. Hence, trolling.

~Steve

This comment was edited on Oct 19, 10:26.
 
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120. Re: Halloween on Sunday Oct 19, 2004, 10:07 Zathrus
 
I don't think Bush would describe himself as evangelical, just as a religious man who actually follows the tenets of his church. HUGE difference.

And if his church is fundamentalist and/or evangelical? IIRC, he's technically Southern Baptist. And while that's a very large denomination, it's also very broad. It ranges from congregations that only go with the Southern Baptist Council in name -- because there are perks in belonging to such a large organization -- to ones that are just this side of zealotry. I have no idea where Bush's congregation/pastor lies on this spectrum.

We are not waging the crusades in Iraq

Heard a piece on the news yesterday that some of Iraq's neighbors aren't so sure about that anymore. No WMD, no ties to Al'Qaida, and a vast ignorance of how the area works and what the people believe.

No, I don't believe that was the intention. But if you listened to Bush's rhetoric from their point of view, you might not be so certain.

Kerry just says he's a Christian and doesn't follow the teachings of his church. He's a hypocrite, just like most "Catholic" democrats in politics today.

What a load of crap. Are you Catholic? Were you raised Catholic? How much do you actually know about the Catholic church? If all you know about the Catholic church is from the news media and other denominations then I'm guessing that you know very little and that a large percentage of what you do know is simply wrong.

I was raised Catholic. If every Catholic who didn't follow every edict and tennant passed down from the Church hiearchy was "not a Catholic" then around 95% of the US Catholic Church would disappear. I'd also guess that most of Europe and a large portion of the rest of the world would also be disqualified. And I'm not talking about doing something wrong by intent or accident and confessing it. I'm talking about outright disagreeing with the Church and actively ignoring the official dogma.

Saying that most Catholic Democrats are hypocrits is stupid. If you want to state that, then you better follow it with saying that most Republican Christians are as well, given the biblical statements on how you should treat the poor, the downtrodden, open your house to your neighbor in time of need, and so forth.

 
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119. Re: No subject Oct 19, 2004, 08:33 hordak
 
Hey Warship. If you're saying Kerry can't be catholic because he doesn't agree with catholicism on some of it's issues, then by your logic, the only true Christians in the world are those who are generally attributed the term "Christian Reconstructionists". If you don't know who they are, they want the Bible to be law, including but not limited to, capital punishment for homosexual behaviour, stoning of witches, etc.

Assholes, basically, who want a theocracy, - the "Hey, it's in the Bible!" line of thought.

Your logic states that Christianity is an either/or situation. By that account, the Bible is either all true, or none of it.

Thankfully, you're wrong about that. Otherwise you'd just have given Halsy the equivalent of 500 gallons of fuel, and made him right.

This comment was edited on Oct 19, 08:35.
 
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118. No subject Oct 19, 2004, 07:27 Hump
 
OK, so what is your problem? Who is forcing/dictating anyone to do anything? You are free to worship or not worship any being or non-being to your heart's content. Where is all this persecution you are obviously feeling? How is Bush "limit(ing) (your) choices in reality" in any way? How are you personally affected?

I know you were'nt addressing me but I can't resist.

Off the top of my head theres Stem Cell research, Gay marriage and one can go on from there. Neither one affect me personally but theres certainly millions it does affect. Both are a direct result of his religious beliefs.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
What Would Fred Do?
This comment was edited on Oct 19, 07:28.
 
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"Both the “left” and the “right” pretend they have the answer, but they are mere flippers on the same thalidomide baby, and the truth is that neither side has a clue."

- Jim Goad
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117. Re: Halloween on Sunday Oct 19, 2004, 04:34 Tango
 
The job Kerry is applying for demands (even if not in writing, in reality) that he protects freedoms. Even if he was an evangelical Christian, all that should mean is that if his wife got pregnant unexpectedly, (to use abortion as an example) he doesn't get an abortion. To do otherwise would defy his religious beliefs and, as Warhawk says, make him a hypocrite. To defy his beliefs in his personal life is hypocritical.

However, as a Senator or even as a streetsweeper, Kerry has an obligation to vote according to his concern for every American (and, as President, every citizen of the world). Not according to his religion. He may be vehemently anti-something for his religion, yet he should be able to realise that the choice to follow a religion is just as personal and unrestricted as the choice to join one. That is to say if anyone can choose any religion, they should be able to live in America under the tenets of that religion, not under the tenets of their leader's religion.

To vote in the house against your religion is not to be hypocritical. In fact, to vote specifically for stuff, based on religious beliefs or religious group pressure, is wrong.

Just because your leader is Catholic shouldn't mean abortion gets banned. Just because your leader is muslim shouldn't mean automatic handing out of the Koran (or whatever - poor example). All it should mean is that your leader lives his life as his religion asks. If he chooses to do that to the letter, fine. If not, equally fine. Cherrypicking happens, of course it does.


______________________
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This comment was edited on Oct 19, 04:35.
 
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116. Re: Halloween on Sunday Oct 19, 2004, 02:44 Gervaise
 
Semantics, all semantics.

hypocrite

n : a person who professes beliefs and opinions that he does not hold

Kerry says he's a catholic but that he believes in seperating his religion from his public policies. Those are his beliefs that he blatantly advocates and he holds them. So he is not a hypocrite by definition.

What you are arguing is whether someone can himself catholic and not let his religious beliefs guide his public policy.

By your definition, catholics have to follow every tenet, otherwise they are a hypocrite. So if I say I'm a catholic but believe people should be allowed to buy birth control pills and condoms, then I'm a hypocrite. Your statement is quite a sweeping one. Do you see how it is troll-like?

 
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115. Re: Halloween on Sunday Oct 19, 2004, 02:02 Orogogus
 
The question isn't whether or not they approve. The question was, can he call himself a Catholic? Has he quit? No. Has the Church excommunicated him yet? No. What else can he call himself?

Not necessarily "the drefining doctrine", but the protection of innocent life/"Thou shalt not murder" is pretty darn high on the list of things that Catholicism espouses. It even made the Top 10 list.

"Thou shalt not murder" is high on the list of all Judeo-Christian doctrines, as far as I know. EDIT: Forgot to get back to this point, which was... but if you believe that Christ died for your sins, what else can you call yourself but a Christian? I don't know if it's been stated outright, but it seems to me that Kerry hasn't advocated abortion Tuesdays or anything. His sin, such as it is, is that he obstensibly refuses to make laws that outlaw abortion. There does not seem to be a contradiction here, except that the current Catholic Church seems to be intent on seeing its tenets enforced through the force of secular law. Is this a core doctrine, or not? Because it seems to me that this is really the key issue.

(This edit is getting out of control, but oh well. It seems to me that free will was a Catholic doctrine, as well. Thou shalt not covet your neighbor's property is a core doctrine, too, isn't it? Fast forward three hundred years, when mind control devices are a reality. Would it be a sin, by these doctrines, to refuse to mandate mind control beams to zap covetousness out of every citizen's head?)

And as I alluded to before, putting the Earth at the center of the universe was a core doctrine, too. Were people who refused to believe that back in the day non-Catholics, too? How much wiggle room was there, back then?

But this is basically pointless until Kerry either renounces the Catholic Church or it kicks him out. Until then, he should call himself Catholic because, for the time being, it's an accurate description.
This comment was edited on Oct 19, 02:15.
 
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114. Re: Halloween on Sunday Oct 19, 2004, 01:30 Warhawk
 
Normally, yes. And yet... he certainly seems to be calling someone a hypocrite based on his own interpretation of the other person's beliefs, which he doesn't profess to share.

I think there is little left to "interpretation" on most of the core beliefs of the Catholic religion - they were set out quite a while ago and haven't changed all that much.

we're talking about abortion, right?

That is the major break that I know of between Kerry and the Catholic church.

And this is meant to be the defining doctrine of the Catholic Church, right?

Not necessarily "the drefining doctrine", but the protection of innocent life/"Thou shalt not murder" is pretty darn high on the list of things that Catholicism espouses. It even made the Top 10 list.

John Kerry, a Catholic politician whose votes on abortion and gay marriage are at odds with the church's teachings, met privately Thursday with Cardinal Theodore McCarrick, the Washington archbishop heading a task force examining whether there should be church sanctions for such politicians.

Aides to Kerry said the meeting had been in the works for months, but it came just days after McCarrick, in a national television interview, raised the specter of punishing Catholic politicians who break with the church in supporting abortion rights and stem-cell research.

Bishop Raymond Burke, the archbishop of St. Louis, has said he would refuse to give Kerry communion because of his support for abortion rights. Kerry's own archbishop, Sean O'Malley of Boston, has endorsed that principle without naming the senator.

The task force was established after the Vatican issued a decree that said Catholic politicians have a duty to uphold the church's "nonnegotiable ethical principles" — specifically mentioning opposition to both legalized abortion and recognition for same-sex couples.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/president/2004-04-15-kerry-catholic_x.htm

Sounds like the Catholic church doesn't really approve of Kerry's personal beliefs to me.

As discussed in the following linked site, there are some who feel that abortion and politics are hard to justify with each other at times, but based on the statement from the Vatican quoted above, there is no wiggle room on some issues.

http://www.ewtn.com/vote/Catholic_Politicians/index.asp


*************
* Warhawk *
*************

I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid.
 

Have I lied to you? I mean, in this room? Trust me, leave that thing alone. - GLaDOS

Did IQs just drop sharply while I was away? - Ripley
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113. Re: Halloween on Sunday Oct 19, 2004, 01:13 Warhawk
 
Oh, I suppose you're right. I guess I assumed he was because of when he attended that evangelical bible study class. Bah! I'll have to be more careful in the future.

I attended a Mormon get-together right after 9/11 to be with one of my friends. That doesn't make me Mormon. You see where your arguement falls apart?

Are you sure it's not a crusade?

If you mean crusade as a religious cleansing/conversion, then yes, I mean it. We are killing terrorists, not Muslims in general, despite what the radical left may claim. If you mean it as a generic term for an important cause (as Bush did), then obviously, no. Based on the Kerry/Christianity discussion, I assumed the term was used "religiously" - if I assumed incorrectly, it was my error, but understandable.


*************
* Warhawk *
*************

I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid.
 

Have I lied to you? I mean, in this room? Trust me, leave that thing alone. - GLaDOS

Did IQs just drop sharply while I was away? - Ripley
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112. Re: Halloween on Sunday Oct 19, 2004, 01:04 Warhawk
 
No, it's not hyprocrisy at all. It's called respecting other people's beliefs and choices.

If you can't acknowledge the commonly understood meaning of a simple word, I can't help you.

Simply because you don't agree doesn't mean you deny other people those choices.

What in the world am I denying anyone? I'm saying that he is a hypocrite for saying one thing about his religious beliefs and repeatedly (and willingly and proudly) openly defying his religion's tenets. It's the truth, no matter how you try to twist it.

When you force people to live by your beliefs, in spite of what they believe or think, that's called dictatorship. Bush, and his fundy friends, are trying to dictate how others should live. I don't have a problem with them not agreeing with my views, but when their beliefs limit my choices in reality then we have a major problem.

OK, so what is your problem? Who is forcing/dictating anyone to do anything? You are free to worship or not worship any being or non-being to your heart's content. Where is all this persecution you are obviously feeling? How is Bush "limit(ing) (your) choices in reality" in any way? How are you personally affected?

To me real christianity is about humility, compassion and forgiveness

To a certain extent, I agree, however there are beliefs, not just behaviors, that define being a Christian. You can rewrite whatever requirements you want to in your own head to your heart's content, but here in the real world, there are set definitions for a lot of these things, including what it means to be a Christian.

something none of the fundies like Bush and pals know nothing about, much less actually practice. They're faux chrtistians as far as I'm concerned.

In the real world, how you define Christians doesn't really matter, as the world tends to look at commonly used definitions, not the ones you create for your own personal use. Christianity/being a Christian is generally commonly defined, and if that's not good enough for you, I don't know what to tell you.


*************
* Warhawk *
*************

I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid.
 

Have I lied to you? I mean, in this room? Trust me, leave that thing alone. - GLaDOS

Did IQs just drop sharply while I was away? - Ripley
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111. Re: Halloween on Sunday Oct 19, 2004, 00:57 Orogogus
 
sure, fine. the guy is an active, helpful, enthusiastic, and generally friendly poster at bluesnews. but just because he says something that goes against your beliefs, or something that you find incredulous, doesn't mean he's trolling.

Normally, yes. And yet... he certainly seems to be calling someone a hypocrite based on his own interpretation of the other person's beliefs, which he doesn't profess to share.

I don't know if I'm breaking some kind of taboo, but we're talking about abortion, right? And this is meant to be the defining doctrine of the Catholic Church, right? Just like the sun going around the earth was in Galileo's time. Now, abortion's not going to be conclusively disproven, but the point was that there are core doctrines and then there are core doctrines. As far as I know, Kerry hasn't denied the Savior or the Church or the authority of the Pope or whatever.

And further, I thought the Church itself had rules and rituals about these things. Aren't you a Catholic by definition if you've been baptized and confirmed and gone through the rest of it? Kerry might be anathema to the NRA, but if for some reason he had registered and they didn't kicked him out, then he'd be a member of the NRA no matter what he believed, said or did. My understanding is that there is a procedure for turning Catholics into non-Catholics, excommunication I think, and that until either that happened or he quit, then Kerry would still be a Catholic. Am I mistaken about that?

 
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110. Re: Halloween on Sunday Oct 19, 2004, 00:41 Gervaise
 
I don't think Bush would describe himself as evangelical, just as a religious man who actually follows the tenets of his church. HUGE difference.

Oh, I suppose you're right. I guess I assumed he was because of when he attended that evangelical bible study class. Bah! I'll have to be more careful in the future.

We are not waging the crusades in Iraq....

From the nytimes article linked by Bunko:
It was during a press conference on Sept. 16, in response to a question about homeland security efforts infringing on civil rights, that Bush first used the telltale word ''crusade'' in public. ''This is a new kind of -- a new kind of evil,'' he said. ''And we understand. And the American people are beginning to understand. This crusade, this war on terrorism is going to take a while.''

...further in the article...

In a speech in Alaska two weeks later, Bush again referred to the war on terror as a ''crusade.''

Are you sure it's not a crusade?

 
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109. Re: Halloween on Sunday Oct 19, 2004, 00:39 tron
 
He's an American first and a Catholic second, and that's how it should be.

that's where i'll disagree 100%. if you have a religious belief, a true and real one, then that should be the most important thing in your life. to sell out your own God for anything else on earth is just unthinkable to me. then again, i believe that kerry is a politician first, and american second, and a catholic third.

Are you being sarcastic?

yes!, i just don't like absolutes like that. to say "*everyone* does or thinks this or that" is always a statement that falls flat. there is always an exception to the rule. a great many people simply believe what they are told and never take the time to compare and contrast and analyze any of it. especially involving esoteric matters like religion. the "i believe it cuz my daddy taught me it" mindset.

One doesn't have to be a troll (noun) to troll (verb).

sure, fine. the guy is an active, helpful, enthusiastic, and generally friendly poster at bluesnews. but just because he says something that goes against your beliefs, or something that you find incredulous, doesn't mean he's trolling.


This comment was edited on Oct 19, 00:39.
 
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108. Re: Halloween on Sunday Oct 19, 2004, 00:36 Halsy
 
There is a difference in not "parroting church edicts" and blatantly disregarding the tenets of your professed religion, are there not? Kerry (and others) blatantly advocate against the teachings of the Catholic church. That's hypocracy, pure and simple. He's pandering to a base he doesn't represent by saying he is what he is not.

No, it's not hyprocrisy at all. It's called respecting other people's beliefs and choices. Simply because you don't agree doesn't mean you deny other people those choices. When you force people to live by your beliefs, in spite of what they believe or think, that's called dictatorship. Bush, and his fundy friends, are trying to dictate how others should live. I don't have a problem with them not agreeing with my views, but when their beliefs
limit my choices in reality then we have a major problem.

Believing something yourself does not automatically mean that you must deny other people the right to their own choices in order to support your beliefs. What if I worshipped crocodiles and the highest honor possible in my religion was the sacrifice of a person to my "gods". If we were going to toss you into the croc pond as our next sacrifice how would you feel regardless of us telling you what an honor it is and how you'll end up in paradise through this sacrifice?

To me real christianity is about humility, compassion and forgiveness, something none of the fundies like Bush and pals know nothing about, much less actually practice. They're faux chrtistians as far as I'm concerned.


"I never saw a dame yet that didn't understand a good slap in the mouth or a slug from a .45."
- Bogart, Play it Again Sam
 
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107. Re: Halloween on Sunday Oct 19, 2004, 00:14 Dantastic
 
However, even though we have these differences of opinions we still call ourselves Lutheran. I think it is the same with Kerry.
At least somebody gets it.


u are not allowed to reply to josh's posts like that. u have to phrase your response like "omfg troll stop posting. your posting history shows u are a troll, u troll all u do is start arguments" like everyone else does. please fall in line like the rest of the good sheep. thx

signed,
(omfg)troll

 
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106. Re: Halloween on Sunday Oct 19, 2004, 00:06 JediLuke
 
Kerry (and others) blatantly advocate against the teachings of the Catholic church.

So it would be better for him to try and make policy out of unconstitutional Catholic teachings? I don't think so. He's an American first and a Catholic second, and that's how it should be.

he obviously does not follow or believe in them (at least not all of them) - so therefore he isn't truly catholic, is he?

yep. that is no exaggeration. every last person on planet earth does it. all of them.

Are you being sarcastic? Because it's a basic and obvious truth. Everyone chooses what he wants to believe. There are many many Catholics who do not believe everything the church says, and many people of every religion who do not agree with or believe all of that religion's tenets or do not follow every letter of that religion's scripture. I'd wager that there are far more of these people than people who abide by every last principle of their professed religion. If he says he believes in the Catholic faith, he's Catholic, and it's not your place or mine to say otherwise.

and calling warhawk a troll is just so far away from any conceivable reality that you sound like a troll just by accusing him of it.

One doesn't have to be a troll (noun) to troll (verb). Nice try at twisting it around though.

However, even though we have these differences of opinions we still call ourselves Lutheran. I think it is the same with Kerry.

At least somebody gets it.

~Steve

This comment was edited on Oct 19, 00:08.
 
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105. Re: Wireless broadband Oct 18, 2004, 23:25 Ray Marden
 
Well, there is not much in the residential/$100 range. At that level, unless somebody has a better suggestion, the best I could find was 1.5mb/s down and everything up was through the phone line. If Comcast cannot promise me anything by the end of November, I will go with this satellite service (which has about $400 of up-front cost.)

Wishing there was a "Flat (thread)" viewing option :|,
Ray

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104. Re: Halloween on Sunday Oct 18, 2004, 23:13 Enahs
 
Yeah, but they don't put out.
Ohhhh. So not true.

I am agreeing with Bronco on this one! I would not of said it if they did not.


_____
Enahs
That’s a deep kiss too, like the Europeans. You know the French they have to unhinge their jaw to show love.
 
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