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More Knight of Honor & Daemon Tools

SUNFLOWERS sends along another follow-up to reported problems with Knight of Honor and Daemon Tools (story and story), clarifying the cause of the problem, a workaround for the moment, and plans for a permanent fix going forward:

By starting Knights of Honor the copy protection checks for CD-emulation-programs such as "Daemon-Tools".
Due to a bug in the checker-routine the file "daemon.dll" is renamed to "daemon.bak", if it has been locked by the user, which it is not by default.
This is a known issue and will be fixed in the upcoming patch. To have "Daemon-Tools" working agin, the file "daemon.bak" has to be renamed back to "daemon.dll", which is located on the harddrive in the main directory of Windows (e.g. C:\Windows).

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30 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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30. Re: Impossible for it to be a bug Oct 6, 2004, 18:46 MyRealName
 
BUSTED

Anyone who would play ball with these guys after this is out of their mind. And any other company that would try such a thing after this is suicidal.

 
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29. No subject Oct 6, 2004, 18:15 instant
 
I wonder what their fix will be.

Just deleting daemon tools perhaps?
or renaming it back, just so noone will notice.

Bah, I was REALLY interested in KOH, but once again the FUCKED UP copy-restriction regime ruins any chance of me purchasing this game (i'll still play it though).


 
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28. Too bad, actually. Oct 6, 2004, 17:56 DukeP
 
Because www.sunflowers.de looks just like one of those "smallish" studios that might end up making some very good games.

Then, I always vote for the little guys, so it might just be me.

~~DukeP~~

 
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27. Guys, guys... Oct 6, 2004, 17:10 Kevlar
 
Come on now, the real bug to them is that they didn't cover their tracks effectively enough for us to not find out about it.

"Due to a bug in programming, our completely unintentional sequence of copy-protection steps that results in attacking your system without your knowledge or consent has now been made obvious. We will release a patch soon to fix the overtness of this attack."

 
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26. Hands off other developers' files! Oct 6, 2004, 17:06 Riley Pizt
 
The bottom line is that the developers of this game have no right to tamper with another developer's proprietary files or code. If I were the developers of Daemon Tools, I would sue Sunflower right now to set a precedent and collect some punitive damages.

 
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25. Re: No subject Oct 6, 2004, 16:32 Vek
 
Copy protection is generally added on by a third party company, as per the Publisher's wishes.

Developers rarely have any say in who makes the copy protection for their game, and what it does. They dont even get to see the code, or okay it.

However... please keep in mind here that the 'bug' was that they forgot to COVER UP their already illegal action of renaming the DLL to BAK by renaming it back to DLL after poking at it.

Its like a wallet thief putting your wallet back after he's already taken it and messed with it. It doesn't make it suddenly not a crime just because you put it back to the way it was.

The bug in this case was that they forgot to (or were unable to) cover their tracks.

 
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24. Re: No subject Oct 6, 2004, 16:28 FourPak
 
It's an interesting bug that manages to search out and rename a specific file.
yeah curious that some programmer(s) have the time to Write Code to check this stuff. Did the programmer(s) do this all by themselves? Or were they told to do this by someone else?

How did they manage to Schedule a couple days/weeks into an already tight MS Project task list for this?

Sounds r-e-a-l fishy to me.

 
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23. Re: Impossible for it to be a bug Oct 6, 2004, 15:04 Tom
 
Did these guys screw up? Ya, no doubt about it. I just think you may be giving them too much credit. I think this is a glimpse of just how dumb the people working on copy protection systems often are.

 
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22. Re: Impossible for it to be a bug Oct 6, 2004, 14:57 nin
 
They claim that this is part of a check for CD emulation programs. Attempting to rename daemon.dll is a very simple method of determining whether or not emulation is enabled in Daemon Tools. The bug is failing to rename it back afterwards.



They still lied when they said:
This is caused by Daemon-Tools itself, if it is running while being unlocked.



www.muse.mu
 
http://www.nin.com/pub/tension/
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21. Quick note Oct 6, 2004, 14:56 Vek
 
AS you can see below, there is no excuse for doing this.

However, I'm pretty sure the developer didn't choose their copy protection. Generally, the publisher tacks it on, and the developer has NO CHOICE. Additionaly, due to some regulations in the EU, sometimes even the publisher has no choice.

 
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20. Re: Impossible for it to be a bug Oct 6, 2004, 14:52 Vek
 
It doesn't matter. Permission to mess with another applications functionality was never given.

Put it this way... it messed with a DLL it didn't own.
What if some company takes your email (.eml) folder and thrashes it because of a 'bug'. When their program has nothing at all to do with email? What about if it 'forgets' to un .bak a critical system file it just arbitrarily decided to look at?

It is IMPOSSIBLE to rename it to .bak in the first place 'by mistake'. They intentionally touched the DLL.

If the 'bug' is that they forgot to rename it BACK to .dll after renaming it to BAK, thats just as bad, because thats saying "The bug is we forgot to cover up our crime." - Renaming it to .BAK in the first place WAS WRONG!


This comment was edited on Oct 6, 14:54.
 
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19. Re: Impossible for it to be a bug Oct 6, 2004, 14:19 Tom
 
Sorry guys, but as sketchy as this is, it IS possible for this to be a bug. A bug is, by definition, "an unexpected defect, fault, flaw, or imperfection." The implication is that the bug is a result of a mistake on the part of the programmer. They claim that this is part of a check for CD emulation programs. Attempting to rename daemon.dll is a very simple method of determining whether or not emulation is enabled in Daemon Tools. The bug is failing to rename it back afterwards.

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

Is it possible that it's malice? Yes. Is it possible that it's stupidity? Yes. Therefore, it is possible that it is really a bug. Who are you to judge the probabilities (let alone possibilities) so harshly when you haven't even seen the code?

 
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18. Re: Impossible for it to be a bug Oct 6, 2004, 14:04 SquirrelZero
 
The fact that it screws with 3rd party software to begin with doesn't even bother me as much as their attempts to mislead people. Their statement is pretty much the opposite of what they said the other day.

Nice going.

---------
Pandora Studios programmer
creator, Frag.Ops
http://www.frag-ops.com
http://squirrel.frag-ops.com
 
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17. Re: Impossible for it to be a bug Oct 6, 2004, 13:05 Overon
 
They are liars. Sunflower lied. Sunflower sucks. Their game sucks too. A bug that renames a file. ROFL. Please who are they trying to fool. You can't have a bug that accidently renames a file. I wish one of these days these pathetic copy protection schemes would be taken to court over what they do to a user's system without their knowledge or approval. I so much wish that one person did this and then that would finally put a stop to this bullshit.

 
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16. Impossible for it to be a bug Oct 6, 2004, 12:41 Vek
 
As a programmer myself, I can vouch that it is impossible for a file to just 'mistakenly' get renamed.

They shouldn't even be poking at that DLL in the first place.

To rename a file in C++, (and other languages) you speicifically have to do it. There is no command that might 'accidentaly' rename a file to .bak. This is easily provable in court, too.

 
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15. Re: Convenient bug! Oct 6, 2004, 12:36 StaTik
 
"Ooohh, here comes a funny man waving a weapon at you. Oooohhh, scary and exciting!! Ooooohhh!!!!"

LMAO

Last time I looked Deamon is freeware there is no need to buy it just download.

 
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14. Re: No subject Oct 6, 2004, 12:12 nin
 
thats funny, theres a bug on my PC that causes it to download the Knights of Honor CD clones


Exactly!

www.muse.mu
 
http://www.nin.com/pub/tension/
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13. Re: Convenient bug! Oct 6, 2004, 11:55 Mr Gar
 
Ooohh, here comes a funny man waving a weapon at you. Oooohhh, scary and exciting!! Ooooohhh!!!!

WTF

 
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12. Convenient bug! Oct 6, 2004, 11:46 denniz
 
That's one hell of a convenient bug for Sunflower corp...
And is that the best story they could come up with after more than a day?! Shows how 'creative' they are: the game prolly sucks big time. Ooohh, here comes a funny man waving a weapon at you. Oooohhh, scary and exciting!! Ooooohhh!!!!
 
Computers and airconditioners have one thing in common; they both stop working when you open windows
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11. Re: No subject Oct 6, 2004, 11:28 Mr Gar
 
They have to say it's a bug to avoid legal liability.

I'm sure the EULA that comes with Knight of Honor gives them permission to do whatever they want, be it intentionally or accidentally with a "bug" and not be held responsible.

 
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30 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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