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Out of the Blue

Okay, so what did I miss? I just caught a portion of The Matrix Reloaded on the satellite again yesterday, and something stuck in my mind that I hadn't noticed before (let me insert a spoiler warning here in case you have yet to see this one... just skip to the links of the day).

So the Architect tells Neo that they've destroyed Zion six times now, but then later refers to Neo's five predecessors. I they've destroyed Zion six times, wouldn't he be the seventh Neo? If there was a version of this event that didn't include a Neo (or if the Architect was simply lying), I would hope that would be clarified. On the other hand, if this repopulate Zion scenario took place as he described, wouldn't the "old" Neo be part of Zion's current populace? I guess this all speaks again to how disappointed I was in how few further wrinkles about all this were included in Matrix Revolutions.

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166 Replies. 9 pages. Viewing page 1.
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166. No subject Jun 25, 2004, 06:54 Rockn-Roll
 
Ah...I think I see your conundrum. I believe the Architect is speaking as a conqueror and has already included his current battle to the list of victories he has accrued in the war. People who are sure of an outcome frequently speak in terms of the outcome already coming to pass. But, indeed it is a human trait and not something we would expect from a machine. But, then again trait is a word just like confidence.

Well, anyway, that's my slant.

 
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165. Re: Back to... Jun 24, 2004, 12:07 RegularX
 
Yeah, I agree. I want some real Matrix sequels that really expound the concept instead of just raising silly metaphysical questions that don't make sense in the end. The W brothers never fully come clean about the past, about Zion, about Neo, about Smith, about any of it. You are left at the end of the third movie with about as many open-ended questions about why or how someone does this or that the second movie ends with.

IMO, there's the Matrix and the Animatrix. Outside of that is crap.

 
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164. Re: Bush opens mouth Jun 24, 2004, 12:02 RegularX
 
WMD is still being looked for.

Actually, they really aren't. Most of the US WMD team has been reassigned to other tasks.

Why do you insist that Saddam was innocent?

Innocent? Course not. Linked to Al-Qaeda and 9/11 as the Bush Administration suggested to Congress? Doesn't look like that holds up either (and before you say Bush never connected Al-Q to 911 ... you might want to look up that letter). Reasons for Iraq War fading? Well, the stated ones at least.

 
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163. Re: Back to... Jun 23, 2004, 09:14 Ghostface Killah
 
They really are essentially equals. I dunno, but when I saw the end of the 3rd one I wasn't confused. I immediately took it as him being dead.

 
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162. Re: Back to... Jun 23, 2004, 03:49 Ray Marden
 
Everything must come to an end.

Since this was the Uber love hippy Neo that previously had Trinity there to sway his vote, he could be equally hippy and give himself unto Smith.

As smith was made to destroy Neo and Neo effectively (allowing himself to become) dead, that was it for Smith. Otherwise, they are essentially equals that just fight and fight...

Wanting a x800 XT :(,
Ray

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161. Re: Back to... Jun 22, 2004, 22:28 nin
 
If you don't agree with my reasoning please argue it, I love conversing over the events that happened throughout the Matrix movie. Not to say that I'm right, but I'd like to think I have a good grasp of what went on.


See, one of my main gripes about the 3rd movie was it didn't resolve that (what happened to Neo) at the end. We really don't know one way for another (100% sure) and short of the W bros saying (or, eek, another sequel) we'll probably never know.

And I hate endings like that - I want closure. It would be like ending Return of the King with Frodo and Sam on the rock with lava all around them. Cut to black and credits. Did they make it? Who knows? What happened to everybody else? Who cares. Thankfully, that wasn't the case...

I will echo comments made by another poster here on one of the threads (sorry, I don't remember who): Dollars to donuts, I bet you Neo shows up in the MMO game that's coming out. One of the devs will pose as Neo and make rare appearances, and membership will jump through the roof.

There is the theory of the moebius, a twist in the fabric of space where time becomes a loop time becomes a loop time becomes a loop http://www.loopz.co.uk/
 
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160. Re: Back to... Jun 22, 2004, 16:34 Ghostface Killah
 
The Oracle isn't an actual human, it's a representation of a program that runs in the Matrix, so I wouldn't think it applies to that.

And you are right, it doesn't sound correct to say that there isn't anyone in the Matrix anymore because Smith did take over everyone.

However..... My original argument can still be intact in some way. Now lets get back to the movie a little bit here.. Agent Smith took over the Oracle, and when that happened it was visual apparent that he undertook an extreme power by doing so. Now Neo being an anamoly and all, I think it's also safe to say that he was the most powerful of them all to overtake. Another thing we know is that Neo brought some of his powers outside of the Matrix (being able to detect/control sentinels).

Maybe that was an essential part of it... By Smith actually taking over the One he can also assume the powers that Neo had in the outside world. So it wouldn't at all be ridiculous to say that Smith took more of a human form when that happened. Well we see Smith being deleted. Smith is fused with Neo.. Neo seems to be incredible fused to the Matrix (being able to use powers outside of it).

My conclusion is, when the kernel deleted Smith which overtook Neo which was fused tightly with the Matrix. It deleted Smith but at the same time deleted Neo inadverently but essentially. Back to my original formula:

Virus = Smith = Neo = Dead

If you don't agree with my reasoning please argue it, I love conversing over the events that happened throughout the Matrix movie. Not to say that I'm right, but I'd like to think I have a good grasp of what went on.

 
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159. Re: Back to... Jun 22, 2004, 14:34 nin
 
Neo was jacked in through the "kernel" of the Matrix. By allowing Agent Smith to take over his body/mind (copy himself, whatever the hell it is that he does), the essence of Smith overwrote Neo. And the whole goal of that was that since Smith overwrote Neo who was directly jacked in to the kernel, the "virus" was destroyed. So you can conclude that:

Virus = Smith = Neo = Dead


But Smith took over The Oracle and she turned out fine...as did the little kid that was with her.

edit: As a matter of fact, Smith had taken over EVERYONE by the end of the movie. The matrix can't be empty now, with no people in it...

I'd say everyone was restored.


There is the theory of the moebius, a twist in the fabric of space where time becomes a loop time becomes a loop time becomes a loop http://www.loopz.co.uk/
This comment was edited on Jun 22, 14:38.
 
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158. Re: Back to... Jun 22, 2004, 14:11 Ghostface Killah
 
I just have to say that all of this confusion on the outcome of Neo's existence is unwarranted. Neo is dead and that's the bottom line.

Neo was jacked in through the "kernel" of the Matrix. By allowing Agent Smith to take over his body/mind (copy himself, whatever the hell it is that he does), the essence of Smith overwrote Neo. And the whole goal of that was that since Smith overwrote Neo who was directly jacked in to the kernel, the "virus" was destroyed. So you can conclude that:

Virus = Smith = Neo = Dead

Besides, anybody that was overtaken by Smith was labotimized except for one person (and that was only because of the timely occurance of it happening just as that person was jacking out).

 
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157. Re: Back to... Jun 20, 2004, 05:53 Ray Marden
 
Eh, just like all the Lucas atrocities movies of late.

Really, incredibly beautiful worlds...until you turn the sound on or deal with the pitiful acting/plot.

Personally, I thought the story was the most profound aspect of the first movie...

Still wanting a true Matrix sequel :),
Ray

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156. Re: Back to... Jun 20, 2004, 03:00 Stolk
 
Who needs gmail? Yahoo's gotta 100 mb to spare... now.

 
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155. Re: Back to... Jun 20, 2004, 02:16 runab0ut
 
Well, in the 1st movie, people was 'wow-ed' by the plot along with the innovations (like bullet-time) in cinematography and the overall theme. All of us were left with an open-ended story... and almost all really liked it and people really looking forward to the 2nd movie to see what's coming up for Neo. When it came out with a diluted storyline and mis-'connections' from the 1st part, some are miffed by it and said that the "3rd part answers all the questions that we have", but IMO, it still gave the story a backseat.

Either way it did its job, it made people think about stuff and connect all of these 'theories' to the movie. Which is good for me!

Technically the 3rd movie is a step-up, production-wise.

* * *

Any other with a gmail invite to spare?

 
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154. The First Matrix Jun 19, 2004, 15:36 Sleeper6
 
The reason for him saying "five predecessors" instead of six is that, as stated in the first movie, the first matrix was designed as a paradise - that no one would accept, and everyone started trying to wake up from. It didn't last long enough for The One to arise, but instead was a disaster and came unravelled, so it was re-designed to mimic the "real world" of an era past.

I wonder which other eras the other matrixes (matresies?) were patterned after, as opposed to the late 20th century, as Neo's one was. Apparently one was a circa 18th century Transylvania, since there were using vampires and werewolves as agent programs to police the place (as seen in Reloaded - the Merovingian's rogue programs were described as left over from an earlier version of the Marix). Perhaps Van Helsing was originally entitled "The Matrix: Beta Test"?

 
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153. Back to... Jun 19, 2004, 03:14 Stolk
 
the matrix. It is strange to me that the 3rd movie is criticized for its story. I can't think of any other sequel in which it was the story, NOT the quality, that became the source of bad reviews among fans. The movie itself is beautiful, yet because it had more action and less of what was known of the first movie, many didn't like it. This is just damn strange to me and a sentiment I don't get. I mean, we all knew the end was supposed to be a big fight with the machines, right? Did you want them to pause in the middle of fighting and have a meaningful philosophical chat with the sentinels? Perhaps share their interpretations of God?

 
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152. Re: Bush opens mouth Jun 18, 2004, 21:51 JoeCool
 
He is a moderate. Kind of like Joe Lieberman and Zell Miller. My opinion of course.

Lieberman maybe but hehe not Zel. Have you seen his rating with the christian coalition? Its like 98% I believe.

 
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151. Re: Bush opens mouth Jun 18, 2004, 21:35 Bronco
 
I always thought it would be fun to have a Democrat and a Republican face off in the fall, and the "loser" would then become the VP of the winner. The idea being, it would FORCE the 2 parties to learn to work together.

I do believe that prior to the two party system this is exactly how it worked.

I call him "The Democrat in Republican clothing".

He is a moderate. Kind of like Joe Lieberman and Zell Miller. My opinion of course.


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150. Re: Bush opens mouth Jun 18, 2004, 19:25 nin
 
Isn't McCain a Republican? How mind-bending would that be! Best of both worlds, I'd say. People could still vote Kerry, remove Bush, and have a Republican in the White House guest cottage. Everyone wins!


He is. That's part of the appeal (More than a few Republicans feel like Bush sold them out.). That, and just about everything that comes out of his mouth sounds like a Democrat. I call him "The Democrat in Republican clothing".

He also comes across as a pretty honest guy. He doesn't like Bush, which is why you don't see him campaigning for him...

Edit: I always thought it would be fun to have a Democrat and a Republican face off in the fall, and the "loser" would then become the VP of the winner. The idea being, it would FORCE the 2 parties to learn to work together.



There is the theory of the moebius, a twist in the fabric of space where time becomes a loop time becomes a loop time becomes a loop http://www.loopz.co.uk/
This comment was edited on Jun 18, 19:27.
 
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149. Re: Bush opens mouth Jun 18, 2004, 16:49 JoeCool
 
You are not reading everything. You take bits and use them out of context.
I'm not trying to spin anything.

How so?? You have not said anything to back you statements up.

WMD is still being looked for. Why do you insist that Saddam was innocent? Try reading everything before shooting off.

It's been over 1 1/2 years and they haven't found crap. The case for the war was built on the fact that we knew where these stockpiles were and yet nothing has been found. I'ved used statment from the 9/11 comissions debunking any Cooperation between Obl and Saddam. Seems like you need to be the one who starts to read things.

Jay
Those link still don't show any hard proof. Posting a few op-eds don't show hard proof that anything has occured. The fact that chalabie lied damns it even more. Once some sold proof comes out and not just allegations then i'll believe there was something deeper.

Abbas was a none issue since he was exiled.

Zarquawi was working in the kurdished controled portion of Iraq. Like I've said before there has been no proof that Saddam and Al Qaida worked to attack the US and the 9/11 comission agrees with me.

I'm not saying Iraq was sympathetic towards terroism but I am saying and it has been proven that Saddam didn't work with any terrorist to attack the US, its as simple as that.


This comment was edited on Jun 18, 16:51.
 
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148. Re: Bush opens mouth Jun 18, 2004, 16:43 complicity
 
Well, I would fully expect everyone here to endorse you.
Good to know. Although I doubt I'd get even a portion of everyone here. At least I've got your vote, nin, that's a start.
.I still want McCain, dammit.
Isn't McCain a Republican? How mind-bending would that be! Best of both worlds, I'd say. People could still vote Kerry, remove Bush, and have a Republican in the White House guest cottage. Everyone wins!

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and a warning to those who do not.
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147. Re: Bush opens mouth Jun 18, 2004, 16:37 jay
 
"the rumor" Oil for Food UN scandal
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/WNT/Investigation/oil_for_food_ripoff_040420-1.html
http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20040321-101405-2593r.htm
http://www.forbes.com/energy/2004/05/20/cz_ms_0520iraq.html
http://www.economist.com/agenda/displayStory.cfm?story_id=2618260
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120391,00.html
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20040422/news_lz1ed22top.html
Kinda makes ya wonder about the whole France-Germany "principled" opposition thing, doesnt it?
But Im sure you will give the UN the oh-so preferential benefit of the doubt.


Abbas is the terrorist who hijacked an italian liner, then murdered american-jew Klinghoffer, then dumped him in the sea, and ran a pro-palistinian terrorist group from Iraq.
http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9605/10/abu.abbas/
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/04/15/sprj.irq.abbas.arrested/

Zarquawi
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4431601/
In June 2002, U.S. officials say intelligence had revealed that Zarqawi and members of al-Qaida had set up a weapons lab at Kirma, in northern Iraq, producing deadly ricin and cyanide. Some reports say He recuperated from his leg injury in Baghdad.

And I resent the conservative or Rush comment. Would you be annoyed if I said you got all your "rumors" out of Michael Moore's bloated and corpulent ass?


 
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