Send News. Want a reply? Read this. More in the FAQ.   News Forum - All Forums - Mobile - PDA - RSS Headlines  RSS Headlines   Twitter  Twitter
Customize
User Settings
Styles:
LAN Parties
Upcoming one-time events:

Regularly scheduled events

Derek Smart vs DreamCatcher

A post to the Battlecruiser Online Forums by 3000AD's Derek Smart (thanks uberneuman and Voodoo Extreme) expresses unhappiness at the value price point Universal Combat has been tagged with, saying: "We [3000AD] fully intend to litigate this because this is just ridiculous." He also describes how this impacts support of the product:

Because of how the deal is structured and given how we are paid, we stand zero chance of making ANY money on this game, let alone turn a profit for our efforts. And with that, we certainly won't have the money to allocate resources to its support. Which means, this particular UC game - unless this matter is resolved prior to the game going to retail - will be the one and only version released. No patches. No tweaks. Nothing. In other words, its Take Two all over again - except that in the case of this game, it actually works.

View
50 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 1.
< Newer [ 1 2 3 ] Older >

50. Re: No subject Jan 31, 2004, 18:37 Arac
 
Looks like you hit a nerve, WaltC, t'is the boy wonder himself.

"Now STFU and siddown."

You. Utter. Pillock.

This comment was edited on Jan 31, 18:38.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
49. No subject Jan 31, 2004, 11:28  dsmart 
 
n this case it would "appear" that DS signed a contract without reading the terms. Whatever his reasons for doing so, he did so on a completely voluntary basis, and that should not be forgotten. Since obviously DS didn't think putting in the retail sale amount per copy was important at the time the contract was signed, one wonders at his sudden interest in that at a time far too late to do anything about it. Also, one wonders, since DS knows that talking about it publicly won't change anything relative to the sellling price, what's DS's intention in talking about it?

Think about that, and you'll see that all of this DS's lame way of "publicizing" his own DC game, and absolutely nothing more. He's using the "selling price issue" as a vehicle to talk up his DC game in the hopes that more people will buy it because of the publicity he generates for it in this manner.

Complete. Utter. Rubbish.

What amuzes me the most is that you came up with this half-cocked summary written in a matter of fact manner.

Fact: you haven't seen the contract. As such, you have NO idea what it does or does not contain.

Fact: I only became aware of the price change three days ago, sparked by this post on the DC forums. And which prompted our investigation.

http://dreamcatchergames.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14319

Fact: You don't spend two years and tons of money developing a budget priced game. And nobody who has seen and played it, would even think of calling it a budget game.

Fact: My attorneys legal response is obviously quite clear on this pricing issue

http://www.3000ad.com/press/Cease_and_desist_letter_to_Dreamcatcher.pdf

Now STFU and siddown.

 
Avatar 9141
 
Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living. If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead
...but don't be surprised if we don't uphold them
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
48. Re: Lack of Smarts... Jan 31, 2004, 09:28 WaltC
 
You all fail to see the big picture here. When developers get their legs chopped out from under them to satisfy the greed of the publishers, the real losers are the developer who has put in the hard work and effort to create the game and the customer who buys games. Don't you see that when the publishers get greedy that the end result is games that are released too soon in an unfinished state with numerous bugs and etc. I'll bet the same ones here bashing Derek will be the first ones crying foul when their favorite title ships full of bugs.

Apparently, you don't understand the relationship between a game developer and a publisher. The developer needs the publisher as much as the publisher needs the developer, very much like what happens between book authors and their publishers.

When the author of a book or software program signs a contract with a publisher, generally it is on the strength of an uncompleted work, and the publisher advances, in good faith, money to the developer against the contract amount which both the developer and the publisher agree on at the time of the contract. The developer, or author, is then free to complete his work without any worry over selling it to make money, because the publisher has agreed to pay him and to pay for the marketing, packaging and distribution of his software without any financial assistance from the developer. IE, whereas the developer risks his time, it is the publisher who risks the money.

The point to understand is that contracts are voluntary instruments. Whatever contract DS signed with DC he signed voluntarily. Ditto DC--whatever agreement they made with DS they made voluntarily. For either party, after the contract is signed it's a bit late to second-guess it, and the time for doing that is before you sign it.

What DS is doing here is, in my view, analogous to buying a new car and signing a finance contract at the time you buy it which allows the finance company to set your monthly payment and term, and then complaining about the result when you receive the first bill because the monthly payment and the term of the contract are higher and longer, respectively, than you "thought" they should be. At that point, you have lost the right to complain as it is far too late.

In this case it would "appear" that DS signed a contract without reading the terms. Whatever his reasons for doing so, he did so on a completely voluntary basis, and that should not be forgotten. Since obviously DS didn't think putting in the retail sale amount per copy was important at the time the contract was signed, one wonders at his sudden interest in that at a time far too late to do anything about it. Also, one wonders, since DS knows that talking about it publicly won't change anything relative to the sellling price, what's DS's intention in talking about it?

Think about that, and you'll see that all of this DS's lame way of "publicizing" his own DC game, and absolutely nothing more. He's using the "selling price issue" as a vehicle to talk up his DC game in the hopes that more people will buy it because of the publicity he generates for it in this manner.

Theoretically, neither DS nor any developer should "need" a publisher, if they feel the publishers are "greedy" as you put it. Nothing is stopping any developer like DS from putting up his own web site and selling his own software for $80 a copy, is it? But by far most developers choose not to do this, don't they? Instead, they voluntarily seek out publishers and voluntarily enter into contracts with them, which include terms they voluntarily choose to agree to at the time they sign. And, they voluntarily take whatever advance payment the publisher provides and deposit same in the bank, don't they? You might want to think about why 99.9% of game developers seek out publishers as opposed to selling and marketing their own software themselves, the next time you'd like to paint the publisher/developer relationship as adversarial. They are quite in bed together, if you didn't know.

 
Avatar 16008
 
It is well known that I do not make mistakes--so if you should happen across a mistake in anything I have written, be assured that I did not write it!
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
47. Re: Lack of Smarts... Jan 30, 2004, 23:53 Taulin
 
As one who is privatly developing a game, I understand where DS is coming from....

HOWEVER!! He still reminds me of the prick over confident freshman CS majors I had to put up with every year at college.

HOWEVER!!!!! At least DS has FINISHED a game..Two games? During the time of DNF development.


 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
46. Re: Lack of Smarts... Jan 30, 2004, 20:35 Gum
 
"Here's a tip, Derek: Try READING all those contracts before you sign them."

Derek did read his contract. The problem here is that Dreamcatcher is not doing what they agreed to do. I suspect they will lose this court battle big time.

I really don't understand why you all bash Derek so much. He is working very hard to make a good game that he likes to play and hopes that others like as well. If you don't like his game than move on and buy something else. Its simple really.

You all fail to see the big picture here. When developers get their legs chopped out from under them to satisfy the greed of the publishers, the real losers are the developer who has put in the hard work and effort to create the game and the customer who buys games. Don't you see that when the publishers get greedy that the end result is games that are released too soon in an unfinished state with numerous bugs and etc. I'll bet the same ones here bashing Derek will be the first ones crying foul when their favorite title ships full of bugs.

Derek, I applaud your efforts and hope that you nail Dreamsmasher to the wall and hold them up as an example for all the other seedy greedy suits who are ruining the gaming industry for the sake of their pocketbooks.

 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
45. Re: ohhhh, SNAP!!! Jan 30, 2004, 16:46 nin
 
You guys are all so smart I almost feel stupid in you holy e-presence.

DS is the little guy here, and the guy that makes the games, and when he loses, you lose.

You should be happy he actually talks to you fools, and gives you insights to things you wold otherwise no nothing about.

Everyone, please welcome Derek's dad to the board. Please make him feel at home. Thank you!

http://www.thecure.com
 
http://store.nin.com/index.php?cPath=10
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
44. Re: ohhhh, SNAP!!! Jan 30, 2004, 16:27 Pr0nestar
 
Wow, all you idiots talk like you actually know what you are talkking about. So many attornies and game developers here! Cognoscenti de-fucking-luxe. You guys are all so smart I almost feel stupid in you holy e-presence.

DS is the little guy here, and the guy that makes the games, and when he loses, you lose. You are all just jealous that DS makes his living doing what he likes. So he make MMOG rather than FPSs. To each his own. There sure seems to be a market and a following for it. If you don't like the game, don't play it. What's the point of cutting on someone for getting a raw deal from a big corp?

The only reason you pick on the guy is because he opens his mouth on the net, unlike most of the devs who never say a fucking word. You whine about that too, hypocrites. You should be happy he actually talks to you fools, and gives you insights to things you wold otherwise no nothing about. God DS must be such a prick to have the nerve to talk to you idiotfaces. I would have an ego too, if I knew that most of the people I talk to are so fucking stupid as all of you. I would feel better than everyone else too.

 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
43. Re: ohhhh, SNAP!!! Jan 30, 2004, 14:01 Michael Bolton's hair dresser
 
In my case,in a pinch, I have access to more money than I know what to do with

LOL

Must be nice having a rich mum to bail your ass out everytime you fail at your ventures.

 
Dr. Michael Bolton's Hairdreser PhD, MD, LLP, DDS
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
42. Re: Enormous brain Jan 30, 2004, 12:35 Enahs
 
Was not Serious Sam a budget title? They made lots of money, and still supported the game.
Stop being a stupid, incompetent ass and blaming it on everybody else.


_____
Enahs Secret Text!
 
Avatar 15513
 
I am free of all prejudice. I hate everyone equally.
- W. C. Fields
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
41. Re: Lack of Smarts... Jan 30, 2004, 12:00 nin
 
Hey, I'm sure there was a lot of asskissing involved to get the title "Head of Diplomacy Fleet"...


http://www.thecure.com
 
http://store.nin.com/index.php?cPath=10
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
40. Re: Lack of Smarts... Jan 30, 2004, 11:53 Grounded
 
HOW GAY:


Time for the happy lawyer dance.

They love it when they make money because someone is trying to screw someone else.

Go get 'em SC, nail them to the wall!!

--------------------
Offensive Advisor Jaguar
GMV Prosterno(bringer of Destruction)
Gammulan War Council
Head of Diplomacy Fleet
Recruitment Officer, Gammulan Military

This comment was edited on Jan 30, 11:53.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
39. Re: Lack of Smarts... Jan 30, 2004, 10:11 nin
 
I love reading BC threads...the amount of ass-kissing over there is a riot...every once in awhile he'll slam one of them, and then the poster tries extra hard to suck up. Or Derek will post his life story in 27 paragraphs, and then everyone there tries to console him. Ah-hahahahahahaha...

http://www.thecure.com
 
http://store.nin.com/index.php?cPath=10
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
38. Re: Lack of Smarts... Jan 30, 2004, 09:55 Apathy Curve
 
Making fun of Derek Smart is like hunting cattle with a Barrett .50 caliber sniper rifle-- just way too easy.

That said...

Derek, who is the "we" you're referring to? You got a mouse in your pocket, son?

edit: grammar

This comment was edited on Jan 30, 09:56.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
37. Re: ohhhh, SNAP!!! Jan 30, 2004, 09:49 Bronco
 
and that is just a teeeny tiny little taste

I tried to cut and paste his entire post and the board told me I was banned!

-TPFKAS2S
http://www.braglio.org
 
Avatar 10139
 
-TPFKAS2S
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
36. Re: Lack of Smarts... Jan 30, 2004, 09:41 weeds
 
This is fucking hilarious.
You know, I'm seriously thinking Derek Smart may actually be Derek Dumb.
He had me convinced for a while that he was a pretty smart guy. A huge ego problem but still fairly smart.

Holy crap.
You make NO MONEY on this deal?????!!!??????

What a farking m0m0.
good lord

 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
35. ohhhh, SNAP!!! Jan 30, 2004, 09:41 space captain
 
from the desk of taco supreme, D.S.:

"Its 6AM and I'm going to get this out of the way very quickly because today is going to be a very busy day for me - with the possibility that I might end up at my attorney's office in Canada later today.

What I don't sign on for, is to be mistreated, manhandled, abused, LIED TO (by Dreamcatcher, day in and day out) and whatnot. In short, I don't sign on to be anybody's bitch. I am a highly productive albeit eccentric developer. Thats my lot. Not only do I like who I am, but the high regard I have for myself means that I never have and never will stand and allow someone to push me around because they THINK they can. This is my archilles heel - I never met a fight I didn't like - especially if I'm on the unjustified receiving end.

And when a publisher has your game - and your money - you are left with very little to fall back on. In my case,in a pinch, I have access to more money than I know what to do with. Iff I wanted to launch a massive lawsuit (as was started yesterday) in defense of my properties, that is EXACTLY what I will do.

The discrepancies on the BCM Gold sales stands at at staggering 62% shortfall. Once the legal briefing is filed in Canadian courts, I will ensure that they are not sealed and urge my attorneys to make the game deal points, LOI, LOI extension, contract drafts, final contract, royalty statements and indeed the projected corrected one they sent back in December, a matter of record. This will permit me to post them online verbatim.

The LOI clearly stated that the MSRP for the game would be mutually discussed. There are no less than nine emails and two documents - not to mention verbal discussions in which the pricing for BCM Gold and BCG were discussed and set. BCM Gold, being a re-release of a 2001 game, always has a lower $29.99 price point. It stayed at that price upon its release in March 2003. BCG was targeted at $49.99 and then in discussions we dropped it to $39.99 in order to keep it at the level of games in the niche category. This was agreed up and I have it in several writings. As most have seen, and we have EACH ONE printed, this was the price point ($34.99 to $39.99) that was set and communicated to the retailers by the sales team at Dreamcatcher. Even the Dreamcatcher pre-order page - as of this moment - has the original pricing of $39.99. And even some retailers have not yet made the change. Given the events of this past month, this price drop to $19.99 was done without communicating with me and without reason or merit. It was not an act of good faith and it is yet another example of how THIS publisher has treated us. And once again, the very first time I found out about it, was by a total stranger (and fan of the series) who found it odd that the game would be priced at $19.99. Now, if you are a BC fan and know how much time, effort and money we put into our games - pre and post release - you too would find it odd."


and that is just a teeeny tiny little taste


_____________________________________________
Give me slack. Or kill me.
 
______________________________________________
"When the bomb drops it'll be a bank holiday
Everybody happy in their tents and caravans
Everybody happy in their ignorance and apathy
No one realizes until the television breaks down..."

- SUBHUMANS
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
34. hehehe Jan 30, 2004, 09:30 space captain
 
"I AM SMARTACUS!"

_____________________________________________
Give me slack. Or kill me.
 
______________________________________________
"When the bomb drops it'll be a bank holiday
Everybody happy in their tents and caravans
Everybody happy in their ignorance and apathy
No one realizes until the television breaks down..."

- SUBHUMANS
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
33. Lack of Smarts... Jan 30, 2004, 09:19 nin
 
Here's a tip, Derek: Try READING all those contracts before you sign them.

You took the words right out of my mouth...you'd think Derek would do his homework after this happened the first time, but no, not Derek. It's ALWAYS someone elses fault, and never his...

Poor, poor, Derek...his lack of common sense is amazing. As is his ego...


DEREK LOOK OUT FOR THAT POP MACHINE!!! AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!





http://www.thecure.com
 
http://store.nin.com/index.php?cPath=10
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
32. Re: No subject Jan 30, 2004, 09:13 DDI
 
old man murray is still around... they dont update very much tho

Hell they haven't updated since the start of the war in afghanistan. Erik/Chet have turned into qt3 and game reviewer whores.

 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
31. From the Gone Gold Forums: Jan 30, 2004, 09:05 Bronco
 
I tried cutting and pasting the SC latest update but the board seems to dislike large posts


http://www.gonegold.com/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=14;t=002640;p=2


-TPFKAS2S
http://www.braglio.org
 
Avatar 10139
 
-TPFKAS2S
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
50 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 1.
< Newer [ 1 2 3 ] Older >


footer

Blue's News logo