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UT2003 & UT2004 Incompatible

A post to the BeyondUnreal Forums (thanks nvmax) has a revelation that Epic's Tim Sweeney made to the Unreal Mods mailing list:

Networking won't work between UT2003 and UT2004. We had initially planned to support that, but the network code has changed so much in order to reduce bandwidth, support vehicles, and increase performance, that we couldn't keep the two games network-compatible.

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65. Re: UT 2004 Jan 22, 2004, 17:22 sc4r4b
 
Doh! I see what you are saying... Oh well, hopefully someone found my sarcastic rant mildly entertaining.

Just for the record, I don't recall epic ever "promising" to add the vehicles in a patch or bonus pack.

BTW, I found a UT2003 vehicle screenshot...
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/unrealtournament2003/screens.html?page=50

the best part about life is knowing you put it together
 
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64. Re: UT 2004 Jan 22, 2004, 16:47 RegularX
 
I think you mistook my original post as some response to yours, it wasn't. It was to whoever did the "Epic is a liar because they promised vehicles, and then they promised to put it into patches, and then the bonus pack" rant.

 
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63. Re: UT 2004 Jan 22, 2004, 13:09 sc4r4b
 
Totally missing my point again... Are you that dense or are you just fucking with me? I never said they "promised" shit, nor was I ranting.

[rant][sarcasm]Fuck it... It was all in my imagination the previews the screenshots of the vehicles. They NEVER EVER PLANNED on using vehicles in UT2003 nor UT Championship. I made it all up just so I could bash the developers for making broken promises and so I could debate it on a messageboard. Oh god, how it hurts to be so wrong... [/sarcasm][/rant]


the best part about life is knowing you put it together
 
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62. Re: UT 2004 Jan 22, 2004, 12:19 RegularX
 
so this maybe something put to more use by mod makers than by DE at least in the UT2 release timeframe.

Which is precisely what they delivered.

In both of those quotes it's clear they weren't sure vehicles would make it in and that's before they had even decided on the name, so even saying your expectations were dashed is a bit of a stretch and someone ranting about broken promises is just in neverland.

And saying they promised to put it in a patch, or a bonus pack - is complete and utter BS that was made up for someone's rant.

 
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61. Re: UT 2004 Jan 22, 2004, 11:46 sc4r4b
 
hkm-- Look, all I am saying is that Epic/DE said and/or implied at one point that there would be vehicles in UT2003. Whether the feature was "promised" or not I don't know... My point is that no one was "making shit up." At one point people reading about the game were lead to believe that vehicles would be a part of the actual gameplay.

http://www.homelanfed.com/index.php?id=5340

HomeLAN - There has been some talk about UT 2 having vehicles in the game because of the plans to have vehicles in DE's Xbox title Unreal Championship. Will UT 2 ship with vehicles?

Mark Rein - I'm not 100% sure what role vehicles will play in UT2 if any. I expect they will play a greater role in Unreal Championship. From an engine standpoint we expect to have some pretty cool vehicle support ready for the game (in fact we'll be showing some of it at GDC in about two weeks) so this maybe something put to more use by mod makers than by DE at least in the UT2 release timeframe.

Finally DE confirmed in the XGR interview that vehicles probably won’t be in the initial release due to time constraints:

http://cleaned.beyondunreal.com/UT2FAQ/xgr_irc.htm

Q: Will vehicles take the place of the TL as the more commonly used form of transportation?

Mike Wagner [DE] Vehicles probably will not make it into the initial release, but follow at a later time. And the translocator is still a zippy way to get around a map.
http://cleaned.beyondunreal.com/UT2FAQ/UT2FAQ.htm#_Toc6765519


Whatever... I like pie.

the best part about life is knowing you put it together
 
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60. Re: UT 2004 Jan 22, 2004, 05:08 hkm
 
sc4r4b, where are you reading that 2003 was supposed to include vehicles? The quotes say:

1. It will allow for vehicles. It doesn't say that it will include it.

2. It says that they may be added later.

 
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59. Re: UT 2004 Jan 21, 2004, 14:07 DrEvil
 
"After the firestorm that Epic set off yesterday with the announcement of no network compatibility, Dan Vogel stopped by the forums to clear some things up.
To put this into a bit more perspective - we're talking about 5 MByte worth of source code changes (and this doesn't even include new code) from UT2003 v2225 to the current UT2004 code tree... It's actually quite scary to see how much has changed. We are now at version 3053 which means we had over 800 internal builds since the last UT2003 patch thus far.

Anyone familiar with merging and backporting code will know the dependency game where one tiny feature you want to port will have a dependency on another which then will have a dependency on yet another feature and so on till you realize that to backport it you either had to rewrite it in the old codebase or literally backport everything.

AFAICT Unreal -> Unreal Tournament had fewer code changes than Unreal Tournament 2003 -> Unreal Tournament 2004.

Daniel, Epic Games Inc."

from http://www.unrealops.com/

This comment was edited on Jan 21, 14:08.
 
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58. Re: UT 2004 Jan 21, 2004, 13:51 sc4r4b
 
Whatever man... As far as I know, they never "promised" anything...



the best part about life is knowing you put it together
 
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57. Re: UT 2004 Jan 21, 2004, 12:40 RegularX
 
I'm not missing it. UT2003 was also originally going to have player stats/abilities, powerup stations, more sophisticated squad control, and a more in depth single player. You can quote whatever you like, I've probably already read them.

I just know the difference between what I see in previews and what a company promises will be in the game. They never promised vehicles, they were working on them during previews and they didn't make it in. It happens. It's development. They never said they would patch it in or make it bonus pack. Maybe they said it might get added later, but that's not a promise - now is it? If you take everything you read in previews as a promise you really should avoid them - because they are full of lies and broken hearts for you.

What Epic actually said, when they were actually releasing the game, is that the vehicle code would be there and they hoped modders would do something with it.


 
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56. Re: UT 2004 Jan 21, 2004, 12:20 sc4r4b
 
RegularX-- You are missing it man. I could look up more a few more references on the net but I don't have time. The fact of the matter is that UT2003 was originally going to have vehicles. It was what peaked my interest in the game e in the first place...

the best part about life is knowing you put it together
 
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55. Re: UT 2004 Jan 21, 2004, 11:55 ZzeusS
 
Hrmmm, no clue?

About what? I despise bunny hoppers. Take cover correctly and use teamwork. If I wanted to play Super Mario Jump Like A Fayg all day, I would be doing that.

 
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54. Re: UT 2004 Jan 21, 2004, 11:12 RegularX
 
Impressions don't = promises, and the previews show that. Anyone who thinks what they read in an E3 preview is a promise should avoid reading them completely.

They never said they would patch it in.
They never said it was going to be in a bonus pack.

Epic included vehicle code out of the box with UT2003 with a sample vehicle. Anyone who bought the game should have expected no less and no more.

This comment was edited on Jan 21, 11:13.
 
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53. Re: UT 2004 Jan 21, 2004, 10:11 sc4r4b
 
Doesn't anyone remember how vehicles were supposed to be in UT 2003 right out of the box?

The only vehicle support that was promised for UT2003 was the Bulldog. It was only intended as an example for mod authors wanting to try and implement vehicles in their work. It was never promised to be in the normal game, or any map pack, or any service pack.

Ever. Until UT2004.

I can understand some of complaints people might have, but please avoid just making stuff up.

No one is making anything up... 2003 was supposed to include vehicles.

UT 2003 will also feature a modified physics engine that allows for some very realistic death animations, as well as for vehicles. Vehicles won't be critically important to UT 2003's gameplay, but if nothing else, they'll be a good way to get around quickly.
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/unrealtournament2003/preview_2857300.html

E3 2002Unreal Tournament 2003 more impressions
Despite the generally hectic pace of this year's Electronic Entertainment Expo, we managed to get a second look at Unreal Tournament 2003. (If you haven't already, be sure to check our previous impressions of this team-based shooter sequel.) This second look let us get a bit more into the game's weapons and its pacing--and though we're somewhat disappointed with the developer's decision to not include vehicles in the retail release of the game (though they may be added later), we can safely say that the rest of the game seems to play out nicely.
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/unrealtournament2003/preview_2867787.html

the best part about life is knowing you put it together
 
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52. Re: UT 2004 Jan 21, 2004, 09:51 RegularX
 
Doesn't anyone remember how vehicles were supposed to be in UT 2003 right out of the box?

The only vehicle support that was promised for UT2003 was the Bulldog. It was only intended as an example for mod authors wanting to try and implement vehicles in their work. It was never promised to be in the normal game, or any map pack, or any service pack.

Ever. Until UT2004.

I can understand some of complaints people might have, but please avoid just making stuff up.

 
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51. Re: Survey Says... Jan 21, 2004, 09:45 Beamer
 
I think UT2K3, in general, was a mistake. Every last detail.

Had it been held back, had XMP been released with U2 in the first place, and had UT2K4 been the only UT sequel without this talk of a yearly franchise like sports games I think Epic would still be a widely loved company.

But everyone sees them as greedy. Separating U2 from UT felt like a mistake. Neither was solid enough to be it's own game, they felt like half games. Ignoring multiplayer only works when you have a game that feels right singleplayer, like Deus Ex or Max Payne. U2 lacked that feel. And ignoring singleplayer only works when you give us something more than the average mp/sp game. UT2K3 didn't do that.

Saying people need to buy new ones each year, again, comes across as greed.



Epic is just bungling like crazy. Either UT2K3 and U2 should have been one game, or U2 should have been released with XMP and UT2K4 should have been the game on the horizon for another year and a half after it's release.

 
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50. Survey Says..."X" Part 2 Jan 21, 2004, 08:46 STATIC3D
 
The part that Merlin_[F8S] said about a company doing what it says is right. Anyone who has watched the whole UT200x thing know it's been going on since before E3 of 2002.

Granted, noone likes to hear this or that feature has been dropped from a game they are looking forward to. But there has been a constant stream of mis-information from Epic in reguards to the UT200x games.

As a long time gamer, I have seen the industry continue to gain in technology/capability, but, decline into the typical "business practices" as standard operating proceedure...i.e. if it makes money, then do it. Just look at the Value type game titles. Many (most) of them are not worth playing. But, because a publisher can sucker some poor average joe computer game player into purchasing the game with some kool art and descriptions on the box, they will continue to do it.

Epic was the underdog with UT and came out on top in many ways. Epic also worked real hard to continue that quality/community support image by releasing free content, etc. I think the one thing that many ppl (who supported UT via word or mouth, mod work, etc.) feel let down by is the fact that Epic has essentially now become the "top dog" and acts like they can do what they want (and we, the gaming public, can just accept it).

Sure, they can do what they want, but that doesn't mean we, the "potential" customers, have to like or accept it. UT was my game of choice from the day I first played the demo. But, with the Epic's actions over the UT200x timeframe, they have proven to me, that my money is best spent elsewhere.

 
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49. Re: Gimme DVD Jan 21, 2004, 06:49 Flo
 
A german exclusive review on gamestar.de said it'd contain 6 CDs but I just saw on amazon that the german retail release will also be on dvd. Hope the UK version goes the same way since the german release will be cut (no blood etc.).  
Supporter of the "Chewbacca Defense"
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48. Re: UT 2004 Jan 21, 2004, 03:03 neko_
 
>CounterStrike-kiddie-bunny-hoppery

Hrmmm, no clue?

 
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47. Re: UT 2004 Jan 20, 2004, 23:59 Chance
 
Merlin, the only real "right" that applys here is your right to buy... or not. Vote with your dollars. Or whatever your local currency is Other than that, it's only a game, not your Constituional rights.

 
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46. Re: UT 2004 Jan 20, 2004, 23:39 ZzeusS
 
I'd like a nice clean strategic combat/vehicle game like BF1942.

XMP is still a little too twitchy/CounterStrike-kiddie-bunny-hoppery for me. UT2003 was way too twitchy.. hope they make the maps larger and not dump everyone into a small room.

 
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