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Deus Ex: Invisible War Demo

Considerably earlier than expected, the public version of the Deus Ex: Invisible War demo is now available for download. Here's word: "Only one event has been more anticipated than the December 3rd release of Deus Ex: Invisible War, and that is the release of the pre-release playable demo for Deus Ex: Invisible War. The demo gives an incredible glimpse into the unique player choice gameplay. Alex D needs transport in a jet held by Sophia Sak, mercenary. There are many ways to resolve the challenges in getting your ride, it's up to you how to choose to make it happen. You've got a few biomods and a few weapons at your disposal, but are they necessary. Will you use wits or brawn? And do you have enough of either to make it happen?" The 224 MB demo can be found on the Eidos Interactive Website, and mirrored on 3D Downloads, 3D Gamers, Boomtown (registration required), Computer Games Online, DeusEx2Files, FileFront, Filerush, FileShack (registration required), Gamer's Hell, Games Fusion, GameSpot DLX (registration required), GameTab, IGN, Loadedinc (registration required), NWSGaming, Pixelrage.ro, and Worthplaying.

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352 Replies. 18 pages. Viewing page 5.
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272. Re: Ratty, Please Respond Nov 24, 2003, 16:41 kanniballl
 
When I played the demo the first time and at the end when the pilot said he would meet me at the landing pad I thought maybe there would be a door or something that was now open where I could find this new area, this landing pad. Then when I actually saw his tiny little jet squeezed into that pad no larger than my patio I laughed out loud. You have GOT to be kidding me! But who knows, maybe there are more spacious maps in the full game.

It should be mentioned that the demo has a "locked" portion of the map.

If you make it to teh "maintenence" building, a little turd of a place behind "her" building, there is a door inside. When you walk up to it and try to use it, it says "unavailaable in the demo" or something to that affect.

I HOPE that doesn't mean there's yet ANOTHER pocket to the level that requires reloading like that bar did. That was pretty pathetic. I mean, even with the Greasel-fight arena, that place wasn't really big, and I don't see why that couldn't just be one big level. Heck, combined they'd equal a small level in the original DX.

 
"Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you."
-Fry, Futurama
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271. Re: a few points Nov 24, 2003, 16:22 JediLuke
 
Follow me slowly. There's no real clip system. There's this unified ammo setup. There are no clips to reload and therefore no reloading. If there were clips of different ammo for different guns, then maybe a reload system would make sense. If they're going to throw down a silly design idea like this, they might as well spare us from reloading too.

Sigh... dude, you're assuming your conclusion as the basis for your argument. The game does separate the ammo into clips. These clips are clearly displayed on the HUD. Even if this was not the case, that's still no excuse for reloading. You seem to see an intrinsic connection between unified ammo and lack of reloading which isn't there. Having the same ammo for every gun does not lead to the conclusion that one should never have to reload.

So in real-world terms, according to your argument, I could say something like "I have three pistols that all fire 9mm ammunition. Because they use the same type of ammo, I can fire one of these pistols endlessly without reloading."

I can't believe you're still trying to argue that.

The unified ammo system and lack of reloading are both poor design decisions and there's still no good excuse for them. The first game had a deeper and more believable system.

~Steve

This comment was edited on Nov 24, 16:29.
 
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270. Re: Ratty, Please Respond Nov 24, 2003, 16:08 Ratty
 
I really doubt they'll change it much. It sure would be nice if we could use the mouse
I dunno. I still hold out hope they may change this. Unlike unified ammo and the skill system, AI, etc., it's the one thing they could do most easily. I assume it's all in the game code (too bad they won't release the SDK).

I liked one person's comparison of the old interface vs. the new. They pointed out what it took to upgrade a weapon in the old system vs. what it took in the new. In the old system it was one step. Just drag the upgrade onto the weapon and you're done. I don't even remember how you do it in the new system but it sure as hell was more than one step.

Really I think it's only the interface that's personally keeping me from considering buying the new game (and yes, I tweaked the ini files to death and forced myself to play completely through the game several times). I wish I wasn't so picky, but I am. Oh well.

There's a lot of little things about the gameplay which, collectively add up to great suckage, but I can get past those. I hesitate to comment on them because it's mostly pointless without knowing more about the full game. But I've decided I don't like the unified ammo system. I don't HATE it but, well, here's an example. When I was going to take out that lady I wanted to use my by far favorite weapon of choice, the mini crossbow. Er, the boltcaster I guess it's called now. Unlike the first game, a single shot doesn't eventually knock someone out even if you wait long enough (but there's those weapon upgrades and biomods to consider!). So I knew I would need about 3 to do it. I started to agonize a bit over this (should I waste three shots of my favorite ammo or should I look for a different way to take this lady out?). Then I remembered it didn't matter anymore! So I just pumped her full of four or five and after a bit, nighty night lady. Strangely, instead of feeling exhilarated, I was disappointed that it turned out to be so easy. Then I just went around and shot everyone that way, hid a few seconds for them to drop, and that was that. Oddly, I didn't really like the boltcaster so much after that.

But that's definitely not a showstopper for me, just a little, tiny letdown.

Another thing which is really useless to speculate about without knowing more about the full game, but I will anyway. The incredibly tiny size of the maps. When they said the maps would be smaller I thought to myself, Okay, Liberty Island was kind of big and there was a lot of running around. It didn't bother me, I liked it, but okay, I can see the point. No HUGE levels. But I never expected what was in the demo. It was positively claustrophobic and rather unpleasant. Somebody mentioned that this was due to the dynamic lighting (I have no idea whether this is true). There is simply no way to dynamically light a large area [and have it be able to run on the XBox, I add]. So I rather suspect the entire game will be cramped, because this seems like a very reasonable and likely explanation. When I played the demo the first time and at the end when the pilot said he would meet me at the landing pad I thought maybe there would be a door or something that was now open where I could find this new area, this landing pad. Then when I actually saw his tiny little jet squeezed into that pad no larger than my patio I laughed out loud. You have GOT to be kidding me! But who knows, maybe there are more spacious maps in the full game.

I hesitate to add this at the end, but, just my own personal opinion and playstyle, I liked not having to worry about reloading. Please, don't hit me! I bruise easily!

This is definitely the last I'll post on the demo. I have to just let it go now and see how things turn out in the end.
This comment was edited on Nov 24, 16:29.
 
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269. Re: a few points Nov 24, 2003, 15:19 RegularX
 
If there are clips, they need to take time to reload.

Follow me slowly. There's no real clip system. There's this unified ammo setup. There are no clips to reload and therefore no reloading. If there were clips of different ammo for different guns, then maybe a reload system would make sense. If they're going to throw down a silly design idea like this, they might as well spare us from reloading too.

From the first day they were saying that the player could take any approach to this game that he/she wanted - not allowing them to do this drastically affects the open endedness of everything.

Killing everyone in the bar wouldn't create any new options for solving the mission, and if anything would eliminate the possibility of finishing it. If you want that option, take the flamethrower and set yourself on fire. Look, gee, it's open ended again.

You seem to be nothing but a fanboy with blind allegiance to ION Storm. This game was obviously made for the console and very little consideration was made for the PC. That's an insult.

There are things about the demo I don't like, and I've mentioned them, so I'm hardly a fanboy. I'm just willing to look past some questionable design changes and see that the core of DX is still there. Most people here seem too hung up on the differences to care about any of the similarities.

 
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268. Re: Ratty, Please Respond Nov 24, 2003, 15:16 Ratty
 
Just so you know, I'm not a dev so what do I know? I'm only reading several sources.

As far as the interface goes, all we have to go on is that Chris Carollo said basically that there were several excellent suggestions and they would be looking into the interface.

 
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267. Re: Ratty, Please Respond Nov 24, 2003, 15:16 JediLuke
 
Any idea if the interface is still being worked on?

I really doubt they'll change it much. It sure would be nice if we could use the mouse to get around the menus though. And maybe they could take advantage of the technological marvel known as... "drag and drop."

~Steve

 
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266. Re: Some facts Nov 24, 2003, 15:15 JediLuke
 
Hacking is trivially easy in the demo because the devs gave us a full complement of hacking biomods. I have no idea how hacking will work in the full game without all of the biomods, but there you are

You can edit the .ini files to give yourself different biomods. If you don't have the neural interface biomod, you cannot hack at all. I haven't tried to see what happens with lower levels of the biomod (the demo gives you level 3). Either way it's still annoying that they had to "streamline" systems like that completely unnecessarily.

Seeing the effects of the different biomods gives me a little more faith, but I still think some of their decisions were screwy and more significantly I think the 1st game did it better. You shouldn't have to specialize in stealth to be able to quickly take someone down with the riot prod or baton.

~Steve

 
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265. Ratty, Please Respond Nov 24, 2003, 15:14 kanniballl
 
Any idea if the interface is still being worked on?

IE, hacking the security terminal brought up a very lame screen of options, as opposed to the very cool screens from the first DX?

Also, any idea if the inventory and mod screens are reflective of the final product?

This comment was edited on Nov 24, 15:15.
 
"Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you."
-Fry, Futurama
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264. Some facts Nov 24, 2003, 15:03 Ratty
 
  • Locational damage is in. Yes, you can kill with a head shot. IS has said the demo doesn't accurately reflect this and some tweaking is likely called for. See next point:

  • Weapons are intended to be used with the biomod/weapon upgrade system. This is not reflected in the demo, so, yes, many of the weapons seem weak and watered down, but as you progress through the game they will become more powerful **if you use the appropriate biomod upgrades**. This is very much like the skill system of the old Deus Ex

  • Stealth is also intended to be used with biomods. The demo did not reflect the actual stealth that will be available in the game because all of the stealth modules and upgrades were not available

  • Yes, the new riot prod is useless. However the baton is significantly improved from the old Deus Ex for those silent, stealthy takedowns

  • Hacking is trivially easy in the demo because the devs gave us a full complement of hacking biomods. I have no idea how hacking will work in the full game without all of the biomods, but there you are

  • You CAN bind your keys. The demo was released with a bug that made the user.ini file read-only. Obviously this will be fixed in the next demo/full game

  • Many more video options, e.g., 32 bit textures, volumetric lighting, detail textures, etc., are available to tweak in the .ini file via a text editor. No, it doesn't seem that they can be changed through the in game options menu. No idea whether the next demo/full release will be tweaked for PC

  • You can ctually edit the ini file to give yourself a variety of different biomods and upgrades, if you want to experiment with how the full biomod system will work as the game progresses (thanks JediLuke!)


  • I still hate the demo and won't buy the full game unless there's significant changes for the PC, but I just wanted us all to at least get our facts straight.

    There are rumors that the demo shipped with lower quality textures to save space but I've never heard this attributed even informally to a dev.
    This comment was edited on Nov 24, 15:19.
     
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    263. Re: a few points Nov 24, 2003, 15:01 Fleer
     
    And it takes no time for them to do so. Hence reloading = useless.

    What kind of response is that? It is so illogical and makes no sense. If there are clips, they need to take time to reload.

    Not letting you kill people in a bar doesn't break their gameplay philosophy one bit

    That's totally incorrect. From the first day they were saying that the player could take any approach to this game that he/she wanted - not allowing them to do this drastically affects the open endedness of everything. In Deus Ex 1 you could go into the bar in Hell's Kitchen and kill everyone you wanted to.

    You seem to be nothing but a fanboy with blind allegiance to ION Storm. This game was obviously made for the console and very little consideration was made for the PC. That's an insult.

     
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    262. Re: HOLY SHIT!!! Nov 24, 2003, 14:51 NeOCidE
     
    BTW, I dont know about you who like the game, but most of you said that you didnt like it when you played it the first times, but later you sort of got used it. I mean, are you supposed to play a game so much until you can accept everything that's wrong with the game? I almost envy you to be able to see past everything that makes this game so bad, and find something to enjoy. For me there are too many things that I simply cant overlook, ignore, and get used to, to make this game enjoyable.

    Panick, I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH YOU!!!! You would have to suffer from serious brain fade to put up with how poorly this compares to DX1. This game should either be redesigned or lose the DX in it's name!!!
    Because this is not the Deus Ex we all know and love.

     
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    261. Re: a few points Nov 24, 2003, 14:48 JediLuke
     
    And it takes no time for them to do so. Hence reloading = useless.

    You're missing the point completely, again. I'm tired of this, your logic is absurd and the only one you're convincing is yourself. If you can't see the flaws in your reasoning from all the posts below, I guess you're not going to.

    ~Steve

    This comment was edited on Nov 24, 14:52.
     
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    260. Re: a few points Nov 24, 2003, 14:28 RegularX
     
    They're just somehow fed into your weapon automatically

    And it takes no time for them to do so. Hence reloading = useless.

    It completely contradicts their gameplay philosophy and doesn't make any sense fictionally.

    Not letting you kill people in a bar doesn't break their gameplay philosophy one bit - it just shows that you are in an area about dialogue, not action. They could have just not let you pull out any weapons, or ended the game if you killed sid, or had cops appear from nowhere, or any other construct that would also "not make any sense fictionally". Lots of games pull things like this, it's hardly a bug. And any of those options, people would probably still be bitching about it. They had to pick some lame construct, this is as good as any.

    Yea it is.

    No it's not. If people tried to learn it instead of bitching about how "console" it is, they'd get it pretty quickly. I got used to the setup quicker than some other games and once I did there was little in the game that wasn't a breeze to do - inventory control, selection, etc. The only thing that's a real pain in the ass is weapon modding, and even that's easy after the first time you do it.


     
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    259. Re: XBox conspiracies Nov 24, 2003, 13:45 Yakumo
     
    "Matt Baer: Well, Deus Ex was conceived as a PC game with no intention of heading to a console. But we decided to do a PS2 version of the game, and it was obvious that this was going to be no small task. For one thing, PCs generally have much more memory than consoles. So, we had to optimize our systems and content to fit in a very small memory footprint. Then, we had performance problems. We had to do a lot of custom coding in order to really tap into the power of the console. And finally, the interface was a huge issue. Consoles really force you to think about your interface and make it as streamlined as possible, otherwise your game suffers dramatically. We pretty much had to throw out the PC interface and come up with something entirely new.

    So, when we started working on Invisible War, we targeted the console from day one. This time it wasn't an afterthought.Every decision we made along the way considered that we would be running on a console. And I think you'll notice the difference."

    lol, damn right we do..

    source http://rpgvault.ign.com/articles/440/440693p1.html


    This comment was edited on Nov 24, 13:48.
     
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    258. Re: XBox conspiracies Nov 24, 2003, 13:27 XEON
     
    Yup Ratty totally agree with you, sadly

    "Despite constant warnings you have never met anyone who's had their arm broken by a swan"
     
    ===
    B: Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?

    P: I think so, Brain, but where are we going to find a duck and a hose at this hour?
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    257. Re: a few points Nov 24, 2003, 13:22 JediLuke
     
    Because there are no clips. Without clips, reloading makes no sense.

    Yes there are. They're displayed on your HUD too. They're just somehow fed into your weapon automatically. And that's a dumb answer anyway. Reloading is important and should be in the game.


    This has to be the most annoying complaint I've heard. Gimme a break. So you can't go stabbing people in a bar, at least they've tried to give some explanation for it.

    How's that? It completely contradicts their gameplay philosophy and doesn't make any sense fictionally. Stop making excuses for them.

    The interface isn't nearly as bad as people are raving about

    Yea it is. You didn't mention a lot of the other big problems too.

    ~Steve

    This comment was edited on Nov 24, 13:25.
     
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    256. XBox conspiracies Nov 24, 2003, 13:07 Ratty
     
    DX2 on the other hand is based on the same version of Unreal as Splinter Cell and UT2K3 (as far as I can tell) and runs like a dog

    Okay, I'll say it.

    That's because they optimized the thing to run at 640 x 480. Any further optimization would be pointless. Nobody plays their XBox games at any higher resolution than that. Same with Pixel Shaders 1.1. Why should they support anything below that if it works great on an XBox?

     
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    255. Re: HOLY SHIT!!! Nov 24, 2003, 12:54 Panick
     
    god damn, that's alot

    BTW, I dont know about you who like the game, but most of you said that you didnt like it when you played it the first times, but later you sort of got used it. I mean, are you supposed to play a game so much until you can accept everything that's wrong with the game? I almost envy you to be able to see past everything that makes this game so bad, and find something to enjoy. For me there are too many things that I simply cant overlook, ignore, and get used to, to make this game enjoyable. I have tweaked it so much and played it at least 20 times now. For me the game got worse and worse, especially the AI seemed to get more and more stupid for some reason. And I stopped more often to look more closely at things and that made the whole game more ugly...

    I really hope IS are reading all these forums because they are packed with people who give lots of good reason why they dont like this game and what could have been better and how. Maybe they still have time to make at least a few changes before release, but I doubt it. That means that people will have to dig in the ini file ones more to tweak the game until it's playable. Maybe the game will look a little better with those highres textures though. (BTW could someone post a link to where they said that?)
    But as it is now, this game is just another Red Faction with 2 options, kill or not kill.

    I'm gonna give the retail version a try when it comes out, but I'm not expecting much....

    This comment was edited on Nov 24, 13:06.
     
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    254. No subject Nov 24, 2003, 12:49 Nexus
     
    The AI really is dissapointing - they've got the people doing Thief 3 there too, and I've had the situation where I've disolved the window, unlocked the personal locker of one of the guards and been caught in the room with all the lockers open and the tops open, and the guard just says his normal "get out of here" line. that's hand in the cookie jar stuff, I *want* the guard to realise I'm stealing their stuff. I've also had him watch me hack the security systems and take over the autoguns.

     
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    253. Re: No subject Nov 24, 2003, 12:45 Yutz
     
    thank you floorpie for the info on the read only file

     
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    352 Replies. 18 pages. Viewing page 5.
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