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Steam Update Today

Admitting the release over the weekend was "pretty rocky," The Steam News Page (thanks David Cronk) says that today Valve "will release new installers which include the cache files for all of the games available via Steam (Day of Defeat, Team Fortress Classic, the dedicated server, etc). If you haven't already done so, please use the installer that includes Counter-Strike and Half-Life." The update goes on to point out: "We know that the conversion process has been anything but smooth for many of our users. We're going to get this fixed. We've done our best to support the Half-Life community over the past 5 years, and we're still committed to doing whatever it takes to make the community happy."

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62 Replies. 4 pages. Viewing page 1.
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62. Re: Monthly Subscriptions.. Sep 23, 2003, 13:23 Duc
 
I may be a fool, but I honestly don't believe that Steam is the start of pay for play based CS,I think that it was stated somewhere that Valve was planning to release HL2 at a lower cost via steam, and also to sell the mp / sp parts seperately. Frankly several methods of payment could work out in our (the consumers) favour. However, no sp offline, steam itself and the paranoid tendancys of the gaming comunity as a whole make it seem like valve has caught the 'english disease'.

 
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61. No subject Sep 21, 2003, 17:47 chili pepper
 
Valve has become a very wealthy and successful company by distributing HL 1 and CS the CONVENTIONAL way. No doubt HL2 would be incredibly profitable if it were distributed strictly by traditional means. And without the side effect of pissing most of your customer base to no end. It could have been a win-win situation for customer and company as it always has been.

But that ain't good enough for Valve anymore. Now they want to try to squeeze their customers through monthly fees. Bunch of greedy fucks. Valve wants to gamble away a sure thing and piss everyone one off. I hope they lose their collective shirts.

 
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60. No subject Sep 21, 2003, 17:36 chili pepper
 
"...and we're still committed to doing whatever it takes to make the community happy."

What Vavle really means is, "...and we're still committed to doing whatever it takes to squeeze as much money out of customer's pockets as possible."

It's pretty fucking obvous that is exactly what Steam is designed to do. Worse, it is making people waste countless hours and energy just trying to get it to work! I honestly haven't seen software, beta OR final, this buggy in my entire life! I don't mind a few minor bugs, but Steam's problems are FAR, FAR form minor.

Fuck HL2. I wouldn't play it if they GAVE it away if its going to force me to use Steam. We must not give Valve our money if they are going to us this way.

Giving Valve your money under these circumstances will only encourage them to try to wring even MORE money out of you. Buying HL2 will only encourage Valve to eventually make it IMPOSSIBLE to play their games unless you are a monthly paying customer!

 
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59. Re: wet panties Sep 18, 2003, 15:41 CrowFeather
 
"I realise that a licensing agreement is very beneficial for you as a publisher, but that does not make it acceptable for you to violate consumer rights."

So, in fact, if Valve ever decided that in order to play multiplayer over Steam you'd HAVE to pay money for it, I'm pretty sure they would be in breach of approximately, what, 7 million or so consumer contracts?


Excellent point, and thank you for backing me up there, but I think that if it were to get to that point, Valve would already be in serious trouble even if they won.

What one is legally permitted to do is one thing. What it is wise to do is quite another.

Businesses live or die by the satisfaction of their customers. No business has ever, will ever, or can ever survive long after alienating its customer base. History is full of the bones of corporations whose officers forgot this lesson.

 
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58. Re: wet panties Sep 18, 2003, 00:07 Creston
 
Crow, check the EULA. Most companies have clauses that protect them from stuff like this

And until ANY judge at ANY point ANYWHERE actually says different, the EULA is a nice piece of written garbage, and not much more than that. Despite all their efforts to trample over your rights as a consumer, every publisher has yet to have a judge uphold their fucking EULAs in court.

If only the Supreme Court would ever get around to debate about it, we'd be rid of the damn EULA, and be free to do with the CD we PAY FIFTY DOLLARS FOR whatever the hell we want. As we SHOULD be able to, as consumers.

I can't remember the name of the judge, but she did say state it very nicely. It went sort of like this : "I realise that a licensing agreement is very beneficial for you as a publisher, but that does not make it acceptable for you to violate consumer rights."

So, in fact, if Valve ever decided that in order to play multiplayer over Steam you'd HAVE to pay money for it, I'm pretty sure they would be in breach of approximately, what, 7 million or so consumer contracts? (just a guess, I have no idea how many copies they sold.)

Eagerly awaiting the day when EULAs are no more,

Creston

 
Avatar 15604
 
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57. Re: Mirror Sep 17, 2003, 16:13 CrowFeather
 
(Note: Would you please have mercy on my eyes and separate quoted text from your own text somehow?)

I deny that you bought the CS 1.5 / HL GUI and WON system rather than the EULA right to the game content.

Some other people have made EULA-related remarks as well. While the EULA is not totally insignificant, there is something important going on here that you may not be aware of.

The EULA does not constitute the sales contract between you and the software vendor. It is not a statement of what rights you do or not have. It is just something the company wrote, usually for two purposes:

1. To demonstrate an ongoing effort to maintain their copyrights. (Otherwise they would lose them.)

2. To give them something to point at in court if they are sued for various reasons (their software damages something, has a security flaw, etc ).

While #2 does carry some legal weight, courts have struck down EULAs and 'shrink-wrap' licenses repeatedly when they violated the implict sales contract, state or federal law, or just plain common sense.

The same is also true of waivers and agreements that other businesses might try to make you sign.

Please, people, as a general rule, don't let sellers intimidate you into thinking you have "signed away" your rights. You cannot "sign away" a right, and most of these "agreements" are not worth the paper they are (or are not) printed on.

You can be melodramatic all you want but Steam (when it works ) enables you to access exactly the same games through a different launcher.

And I would not make an issue of this, save that said launcher is malware.

But I do have a right to make an issue of it. When I purchased CounterStrike, Sierra/Valve and I made an agreement. I agreed to pay them X amount of money, and they agreed to give me in return a product that would perform as advertised. (That EULA may contradict that, but it's not allowed to. That's black-letter law.)

Hmmmm I'd love to know where you found out enough about me to label me a nihilisitc corporate apologist

I don't recall having said that, although in this specific instance you do seem to be attempting to defend a particularly virulent piece of nonsense. I don't know, and do not alledge, that you make a habit of this.

What Valve is doing is just silly. Even if they had a clear-cut legal and moral right to do it (they don't), annoying your customers is a bad business move, and lately, I see annoyed people. They're all around us.

Valve's best move, at this point, would be to release small patches that tie their games into the new ID system without the need for Steam, thus making Steam totally optional. If it truely is superior and nifty and good for users (instead of malware, or the thin edge of a paid-monthly-subscription wedge), then users will voluntarily migrate to it.

The fact that it has *not* been made totally optional makes me profoundly suspicious of Valve's motives.

 
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56. Half-Life 2 will be delayed!!! Sep 17, 2003, 02:38 thwart
 
Steam will hold back the release of Half-Life 2 until 2004. You heard it here first. Unless someone else said it before me of course. Let's face it. I'm probably at least the 27th person that has said it by now. I mean, there are like trillions of people on this planet. The odds are good that 26 people have said this already.

Ah screw it!

 
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55. Re: Mirror Sep 17, 2003, 02:25 Waldo555
 
Woah there CrowFeather way to go on a tangent.

'I want the option not to use Steam at all. I am the customer. Give me what I want.'
I never denied you're a customer I deny that you bought the CS 1.5 / HL GUI and WON system rather than the EULA right to the game content. You can be melodramatic all you want but Steam (when it works ;P) enables you to access exactly the same games through a different launcher.

'Why is it that whenever a company is criticized for doing something dirt-stupid, underhanded, or both, some joker always says "They're just trying to make money!", as if this goal were somehow more noble than the quest for a cancer cure. I know they're trying to make money. I take exception to the manner in which they go about it.'
Hmmmm I'd love to know where you found out enough about me to label me a nihilisitc corporate apologist, really I would! Bah - and you had the nerve to call some throw away lines I made about infantile justifications for software piracy childish and ad hominem. HA!

'And there is where you are wrong. They most certainly do. They sold me a product. They owe me that it will perform as advertised for as long as I care to use it. If they cannot deliver, then whose fault is that?'
No again it is a EULA right to game content. You might not like Steam but you are not legally entitled to the WON system nor the older GUI.
This comment was edited on Sep 17, 02:29.
 
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54. Mirror Sep 17, 2003, 02:01 trog
 
Another mirror: http://www.ausgamers.com/files/details/html/8344

I've added a Torrent and set up a few high-bandwidth seeds - get the Torrent URL from the download page.
This comment was edited on Sep 17, 02:33.
 
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53. Full installer Sep 17, 2003, 01:54 Splurge
 

There's a new 723 megs Full Steam Installer at

http://www.steampowered.com/getsteamnow.htm

still looking for a torrent...

 
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52. Re: wet panties Sep 17, 2003, 01:37 Undead Scottsman
 
Ahh.. I found it..
"SIERRA, ID SOFTWARE AND SIERRA’S LICENSORS EXPRESSLY DISCLAIM ANY WARRANTY FOR THE PROGRAM, EDITOR, AND MANUAL(S). THE PROGRAM, EDITOR, AND MANUAL(S) ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND/OR NONINFRINGEMENT."

There goes your legal basis for warezing Besides, your Counterstrike will (theoreticly) still work, it's just not Valve's problem you have issues with what they're providing you with. And if you bought Counterstrike within the last 90 days, you can just return the bloody thing to Sierra anyway.

Sincerely,
Jeremy Dunn

This comment was edited on Sep 17, 01:45.
 
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51. Re: wet panties Sep 17, 2003, 01:17 CrowFeather
 
nice post. why don't you make it longer next time.

I apologize for the excessive length. I had rather a lot to say.

 
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50. Re: wet panties Sep 17, 2003, 01:15 Undead Scottsman
 
Crow, check the EULA. Most companies have clauses that protect them from stuff like this. I don't have the standalone version of Counterstrike so I can't look at that particular one, and I can't find one in my HL folder and I don't feel like looking for the CD to go through the installer

Sincerely,
Jeremy Dunn

This comment was edited on Sep 17, 01:16.
 
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49. Re: wet panties Sep 17, 2003, 01:03 waxthirteen
 
nice post. why don't you make it longer next time.

 
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48. Re: wet panties Sep 17, 2003, 01:02 CrowFeather
 
Let us ignore, for a moment, your use of characterizations, straw-man arguments, and ad-hominem attacks, and address whatever content may be left in your self-described "rant":


Valve admitted they screwed up and underestimated the demand and didn't have enough servers up. They also said they're going to try to fix this asap. What more do you want?

I want the option not to use Steam at all. I am the customer. Give me what I want.

Of course there are still issues that I'd like addressed like any other discerning gamer - eg. additional gui feedback, better handling of mods, better responsiveness to timeouts, and local casting support ..... but this shrill 'wet-panties' whinging is just nauseating.

More nauseating than childish ad hominem? Or about the same?

They are a company like any other trying to make money

Why is it that whenever a company is criticized for doing something dirt-stupid, underhanded, or both, some joker always says "They're just trying to make money!", as if this goal were somehow more noble than the quest for a cancer cure. I know they're trying to make money. I take exception to the manner in which they go about it.

and set up a new method of software distribution, authentication and cheating control that hopefully ends up benefiting everyone

Bravo for trying. Maybe they'll eventually succeed. But if it were really good for me as well as for them, wouldn't it be sufficient to make it optional?

As for people saying that they're going to pirate it because of this - grow up! Valve has an EULA with you.

Indeed. Which they are about to violate.

They don't owe you the use of their 5 year free WON service

And there is where you are wrong. They most certainly do. They sold me a product. They owe me that it will perform as advertised for as long as I care to use it. If they cannot deliver, then whose fault is that?

Certainly not mine.

Aditionally, WON is most certainly NOT free. I paid for it when I paid for CounterStrike. Is it too expensive to keep running those authentication servers? Too bad. Shoulda charged me more. Not my fault if their planning was poor.

they don't owe you the specific old CS launching GUI

Yes, they do. That was what they sold, and that was what I bought. Now if they wish to implement an alternative that I like, I am unlikely to complain or make an issue of it. But that is up to me, not them.

and they certainly don't owe you an alternative to steam if you're too stupid to get it to work.

Well, I haven't noticed myself drooling lately. (Nor foaming, for that matter, which is more than can be said for some.) In fact, whether I can get it to work or not is not the issue. I don't want to get it to work. I don't want it.

Is that sufficently clear?

*OMG they owe me a CD teh phuck3rs!* PLEASE.

Yes in-deedy. I am childish enough to believe that if I pay for something, I should get what I paid for. Why am I so inconsiderate of the rights of corporations to change what they sold me after I bought it? I must have been raised improperly.

Besides HL2 retail will be offline non-steam version until you choose to activate it.

That statement had not escaped my attention. However, it is not relevent to what is being done to HL multiplayer, and to CounterStrike.


Really, people, this whole thing reminds of nothing more than that Monty Python sketch:
-----------------------------------------------------------
Cut to a smart dinner party. There are two couples in evening dress at the table. Candles burning on the polished wood, a fire burning in the grate. Muted music and sophisticated lighting.)

Hostess (R. Davies): We had the most marvellous holiday. It was absolutely fantastic.

Host (M. Palin): Absolutely wonderful.

Hostess: Michael, you tell them about it.

Host: No, darling, you tell them.

Hostess: You do it so much better.

(The doorbell rings.)

Host: Excuse me a moment.

(The host goes and answers the door of the flat, which opens straight into the dining room. Standing at the door is a large grubby man carrying a tin bath on his shoulder. There are flies buzzing around him. He walks straight in.)

Man (J. Cleese): Dung, sir.

Host: What?

Man: We've got your dung.

Host: What dung?

Man: Your dung. Three hundredweight of heavy droppings. Where do you want it? ('he looks round for a likely place)

Host: I didn't order any dung.

Man: Yes you did, sir. You ordered it through the Book of the Month Club.

Host: Book of the Month Club?

Man: That's right, sir. You get 'Gone with the Wind', 'Les Miserables' by Victor Hugo, 'The French Lieutenant's Woman' and with every third book you get dung.

Host: I didn't know that when I signed the form.

Man: Well, no, no. It wasn't on the form - they found it wasn't good for business. Anyway, we've got three hundredweight of dung in the van. Where do you want it?

Host: Well, I don't think we do. We've no garden.

Man: Well, it'll all fit in here - it's top-class excrement.

Host: You can't put it in here, we've having a dinner party!

Man: 'Salright. I'll put it on the telly.

(He brings it into the dining room. The guests ignore him.)

Host: Darling... there's a man here with our Book of the Month Club dung.

Hostess: We've no room, dear.

Man: Well, how many rooms have you got, then?

Host: Well, there's only this room, the bedroom, a spare room.

Man: Oh well, I'll tell you what, move everything into the main bedroom, then you can use the spare room as a dung room.

(The doorbell goes and there standing at the door which hasn't been closed is a gas board official with a dead Indian over his shoulders.)

Host: Yes.

Gas Man (G. Chapman): Dead Indian.

Host: What?

Gas Man: Have you recendy bought a new cooker, sir?

Host: Yes.

Gas Man: Ah well, this is your free dead Indian, as advertised...

Host: I didn't see that in the adverts...

Gas Man: No, it's in the very small print, you see, sir, so as not to affect the sales.
------------------------------------------------------------

 
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47. Re: XP Product Activation Sep 17, 2003, 00:21 Frax
 
Well, they could always release a patch that disables it. At least in Half-Life 2's case, they could.

As far as WinXP...if MS goes out of business, and there's not a *real, working, user-friendly* competitive OS on the market, you'd better be praying for all of PC gaming, period. Because Linux sure as hell isn't going to pick up the slack if that happens.

 
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46. Re: No subject Sep 16, 2003, 21:51 Bucky
 
Thankfully, that's not the case. You'll be able to play HL2 SP offline. At the moment, it's true, HL SP can only be played over Steam if a connection is present, but there was an interview with Gabe Newell recently confirming that this is only a temporary issue. I have no idea whether the same applies for LAN play though.

Excellent. In that case the only things I can bitch about now will be fixed one or two patches down the road, and that's fine by me.

 
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45. Re: XP Product Activation Sep 16, 2003, 21:28 Mechanik
 
Here is a thought re: product activation/authentication (this applies to any software, not just Windows or Steam based stuff).

What happens to you five or ten or however many years down the road, when the company doesn't exist anymore, or decides that they no longer want to support a ten year old product, or any number of any things? If the activation servers stop being up at some point for whatever reason, your software is now completely and utterly useless.

How many of you have friends/relatives that have (or heck, even they themselves have) really ancient computers (or even not-so-ancient computers) kicking around running DOS, Windows 3.1, Win95, DOOM for DOS, etc.? If they had product authentication built in, chances are you wouldn't be able to use them anymore, even though they are perfectly suited for certain tasks and are all certain people need. Mark my words, in ten years time or so, XP and HL2 are going to be abandonware, and you're not going to be able to use them, even though you paid hard earned money for them.

Personally I don't like the idea of buying software that someone else can arbitrarily decide down the road that they aren't going to allow to run anymore. I paid for it, and so long as I have hardware capable of running it, it goddamned well better run whether your company has gone bankrupt or not.

The only way you might convince me that it's ok is if the company agrees in the license agreement that if they ever are going to take the authentication servers offline permanently, that they will either a) release a final patch that does away with the authentication entirely, or b) open source the server software so that the community can either run their own servers or come up with a client side patch on their own. Even then it's a bit of a scary proposition.



Mechanik

 
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44. Re: XP Product Activation Sep 16, 2003, 20:50 Frax
 
" Everyone screamed bloody fucking murder when Microsoft announced that whole product activation nazi'ism for Windows XP"

I'd just like to state for the record that I thought it was a brilliant idea from the outset. It's utterly and completely painless compared to what people said about it at the outset, and I guarantee you that the one guy that said he spent 20 minutes on the phone with him is an abberation. Out of the ~8 times I've 'activated' over the last year, I've only been asked ONCE why I was reactivating, and that was after my hardware profile completely changed due to a massive upgrade.

Mabye he wouldn't spend 20 minutes on the phone if he wasn't activating it on five completely different machines? LOL

Oh, and just FYI, they're still requiring product activation when your hardware changes and you reinstall. If you don't change hardware or move anything around, you'll be able to activate over the internet. (Four years later, and people still don't get the concept...lol.)

 
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43. Re: No subject Sep 16, 2003, 20:39 Frax
 
"Besides, Half-Life costs less than a tenner these days! I saw it a few months ago for £6 in EB!"

I don't pay for games that have crap online multiplayer twice. I'd rather use that money on Halo PC, or an Xbox game with Live support.

UPC + original CD = Proof of Purchase = I have a licence to use that software. The CD-key is merely a shit method of 'piracy control' that never has worked, and never will work, hence we now get Steam. Where you -=theroretically=- can NOT lose access to a game you paid for.

 
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