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Unreal II Multiplayer Plans

A post to the Atari Forums by Epic's Mark Rein (thanks Hump) has word on plans for an official multiplayer mod for Unreal II to address the lack of such support in the original game, a sticking point for many. Here's the word:

Lack of multiplayer is a temporary issue with Unreal2.

Legend are currently reviving their XMP design for mulitplayer and it will be released as a FREE downloadable add-on for people who own Unreal2.

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124 Replies. 7 pages. Viewing page 1.
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124. If Moog Made A Game... Jul 12, 2003, 12:50 FuriousBroccoli
 
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This comment was edited on Aug 1, 2010, 01:51.
 
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123. God I love that page Jul 11, 2003, 19:38 RegularX
 
>> I do like interviews, and, though things you say in interviews may be caused by excitement, and understandibly so, comments you make about your product, a product about to be sold on the open market, during those interviews are legally considered advertising, and false claims made, are false advertising<<

No, it's not false advertising. You don't need money - any lawyer will tell you that for free.

 
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122. No subject Jul 11, 2003, 18:09 Nils
 
First off, Legend never was or is filthy rich. If anything, Infogrames would be rich and Legend would still be one of their studios, but as we all know, Infogrames is anything but swimming in money. Epic may have money, but Epic is not affiliated with Legend.

Next, your point that calling up some psychic and getting some fictional reading is considered false advertising is dramatically different than getting a product that matches its own advertising at the time of release as opposed to the marketing it got prior to release. In the example you provided, the service you received was not accurate (fictional made up future predictions) and you could argue that because you actually received a service. In the case of the game, what you received is, in the end, exactly what is advertised, barring the PR mumbo jumbo (just takes a bit of wisdom to work through that junk). So again, this argument isn't sound.

As for talking a game up before its release, I would agree with you that less is generally better. Personally, I don't much care for previews, I don't much like full on movie trailers, preferring instead teasers. Unfortunately, developers don't generally make those decisions themselves. Corporate marketing and PR comes to the developer and says "We've set up interviews with these sites and these publications and you're going to talk to them. We've promised these magazines exclusives in exchange for a cover. We've set up these backdoor presentations with those sites and publications at E3 and you're going to talk to them." Nearly all the "advertising" (which isn't, in fact, advertising, but instead marketing and PR) you see is forced on the developer. I won't necessarily fault corporate marketing, their job is to get the product name on the tongues of the public and generate interest in it. They don't so much care about the details of that interest. They just pick up buzzwords and key phrases and sound bites and regurgitate those. They're just doing their job, as unsavory as it is to the developer and to the gamer.

Anyway, the point is, the product you paid for (were you to actually pay for it) is what is ADVERTISED as in, that is what is advertised on the box and in the ads you see in magazines and on the web. There is nothing false about that advertising. As I think it's been made clear already, if you truly believe what is said two years, one year, six months or three weeks before a game hits shelves and expect that to be in the final product, then you truly have no place even putting forth this argument in the first place.


 
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121. Re: g Jul 11, 2003, 17:06 nightfend
 
#119 -- Hmmm..let's see. Why exactly should a developer care what a software pirate, who will never pay for their game anyway, would think of their game?

Sorry, but the moment you began stealing the game, you lost your credibility. Companies exist to make money first and foremost. Even a company that is doing well is not going to put out a game that loses them money (at least not willingly).

Your upset because a PREVIEW of a game did not turn out exactly like the final version? Uhm, let me guess, you are the same kind of person that complains about Beta-test copies of game being buggy.

 
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120. Re: No subject Jul 11, 2003, 16:24 Moog Operator
 
I do take previews with a grain of salt, and I know it isn't your job to constantly remind me to do so, but it IS your job to ensure claims made before release of a product you are making are responsible representations of reality. I don't generally read previews (situations like SWG) but I do like interviews, and, though things you say in interviews may be caused by excitement, and understandibly so, comments you make about your product, a product about to be sold on the open market, during those interviews are legally considered advertising, and false claims made, are false advertising. I've neither the money, time, or inclination to take anyone to task (court) for it, but damn, man, what's wrong with a little humility from you and fellow developers? With a title like Unreal 2, just the name, and the fact it is coming out are advertisement enough - so why bother with interviews, or stirring up excitement for things which may/may not be in your final product? I think I would have enjoyed Unreal 2 if my expectations, due to hype, were not so unrealistically high. Or maybe it wasn't high expectations, but the subconcious disappointment with the lack of the features that sounded the most interesting?
How's that old saying? Promise low, deliver high? It makes sense in almost every business, excepting government, and based on developers statements during the creation of Unreal 2, the sky was the limit... at most you delivered treetops. Had you promised dirt, treetops would have seemed heavenly.

 
STAY RIGHT WHERE YOU ARE, GET OUT OF THAT BED AND GET DOWN ON THE FLOOR, GET OUTSIDE RIGHT NOW, RIGHT HERE: GET DOWN ON THE CEMENT, I DONT CARE IF YOU'RE NUDE, GET DOWN ON THE CEMENT, I DON'T CARE IF ITS FREEZING! WHERES THE DRUGS, WE KNOW YOU GOT THE DRU
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119. g Jul 11, 2003, 16:04 Moog Operator
 
"a product must be released at some point in an attempt to at least break even."
I don't think, at this point, money is a concern for Epic/Legend, they are filthy rich from liscensing their engines. Furthermore, the fact they are working on a non-profit feature now should indicate to you budget isn't a real concern.
A year? I remember the announcement to cut a lot of content (xmp) coming in July 2002, and the lauding of XMP, the most advanced AI etc. continued up until June. Either way (6 months, or three years), the way XMP was presented was not speculative, it was advertising, and cutting an advertised feature from a product to facilitate it's release is false advertising. Regardless of when along the development of U2 this false advertising took place, it should not have happened.
When I phone a "Jamaican witch doctor" and later discover she is a fraud, I certainly do not need a Signed, notarized, contract to have been defrauded via false advertising. The case is the same here.
I have been playing online since it was possible (remember BBSs? so fun) and have been watching with dismay this trend in game development; that is, the trend of talking shit up for months and months, and cutting a lot of content right (oh, sorry, I mean a world of time - six months) before release, or releasing before even touching the promised, advertised content. I don't want this trend to continue, which it is as we speak.
I am not complaining about the game Unreal 2, but the development practices employed leading up to it's release. The developers were irresponsible with their advertisements, and that is what I have at issue with Epic. I am a developer myself, and if I lied to my clients, er, told them over and over about the best, most suprising, advanced feature which I am including in my software, then released without it, I'd be screwed. Epic has the money to afford that kind of fun fun fun, and will not notice how stupid it was, unless people complain and complain a lot about it.


 
STAY RIGHT WHERE YOU ARE, GET OUT OF THAT BED AND GET DOWN ON THE FLOOR, GET OUTSIDE RIGHT NOW, RIGHT HERE: GET DOWN ON THE CEMENT, I DONT CARE IF YOU'RE NUDE, GET DOWN ON THE CEMENT, I DON'T CARE IF ITS FREEZING! WHERES THE DRUGS, WE KNOW YOU GOT THE DRU
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118. smart or smart ass? Jul 11, 2003, 13:54 space captain
 
The size of most peoples vocabulary is even funnier.

 
______________________________________________
"When the bomb drops it'll be a bank holiday
Everybody happy in their tents and caravans
Everybody happy in their ignorance and apathy
No one realizes until the television breaks down..."

- SUBHUMANS
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117. Re: No subject Jul 11, 2003, 01:59 EvilJebus
 
LOL it's funny when people use words like "abhor" to try and sound intelligent =)
I agree with your post though. Although you could have said it in like 3 lines.

 
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116. No subject Jul 10, 2003, 18:54 Nils
 
I am most confused by this purported lying. The big "lie" put forth is that Unreal2 didn't have multiplayer. However, it was clearly stated more than a year before the game was released that there wouldn't be multiplayer. This is fact. This is truth. Truth != Lie. Just because, at one point, a feature was touted does not mean that feature will exist in the final release. Stuff happens, things change, a product must be released at some point in an attempt to at least break even.

It would be more fair to say that the features YOU wanted weren't included in the final release, but it is NOT a lie when it is clearly stated that those features are not in the final product. Just because I'm curious, what other features were you promised in a written, signed and notarized contract from Legend that you didn't receive? Were these features listed on the box as being there and weren't actually there? Were these features listed in the final release advertisement and weren't there in release?

The fact is, you're paying for the released product, not the three year old preview. If you are disappointed the final product doesn't have the features you wanted, then don't buy it. If you are worried that a final product might not have the features you hope for, read a review (not a preview) and find out. In fact, I suggest you read several reviews, because quite frankly, the media often doesn't know what it's saying. It's quite common for a review to describe a product without knowledge of the facts. That is not the fault of the developer. That happens MUCH more often than you can ever comprehend. I'm sure developers would love to do something about that, but unfortunately, they depend on the media to sell their products, and the media depends on the developers to have something to write about... a vicious circle to be sure.

...and this is much longer than I had intended. Point being, this lying you so vehemently abhor is, as near as I can tell, an unfortunate figment of your deluded imagination, until you can more adequately demonstrate the nature of these lies that have so wronged you.

This comment was edited on Jul 10, 18:57.
 
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115. Re: No subject Jul 10, 2003, 18:04 Langsuyar
 
#113: That's one of the best responses to the general internet bitching (as shown in previous posts) that I've read. Too bad that the people you're trying to educate will probably never appreciate it.

#111: Sorry, it's not MY job to remind you time and again that you should take previews of our games with a grain of salt, or that the plans that we had a year before release might not all have made it into the final product. When did previews stop coming with that inherent disclaimer?

 
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114. Re: holy schmokes Jul 10, 2003, 16:57 Scottish Martial Arts
 
As far as Halo goes, bungie jumped right into bed with Microsoft, and I won't supporting them either.

So you fault a company for wanting to stay alive? Bungie would not exist and Halo would not exist in any form, the original PC Design or XBOX-lite Design, had Bungie not been bought out by Microsoft. They had no money to continue operating with so they accepted the deal Microsoft offered them.

I'm as pissed as any other gamer that Halo didn't get to be the game it was meant to be but I don't blame Bungie for the decision they made. I'd much rather have them continue to make games than not.

 
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113. Re: holy schmokes Jul 10, 2003, 14:30 RegularX
 
>>I am bitching becuase Unreal 2 is part of a large trend of this kind of shit.<<

Previews are written before a game is done. Developers are often joyous and excitable about what they are trying to create. Expectations and reality often differ, it's what the word "expectation" means. Most of the logical world realized a long time ago that what they read in a preview may very well not be what they get.

>>You say overadvertising is common place and I should just watch TV for some good examples?<<

Actually I'm just saying that you should read reviews before (not) buying games and base your expectations on the game when it's released, not when there is still months left in it's development and lots of things could go right or wrong.

>>as I was lied to about the product from the get-go anyway<<

No, you can't understand the difference between someone saying "this is what we are trying to make" and a review saying "this is what they made".

>>reducing their profits is my responsibility in a free market system.<<

You know, I really don't have much against pirates or warez. I understand it's part of an electronic commodity. But I really find it annoying when pirates either a) bitch about something they stole or b) try to make it sound like they're doing something noble.

Your responsibility in a free market system was to either pay for something you wanted, or not pay for it and not get it. Stealing is never a responsibility in a free market system, it's a crime and a detriment to a free market system. If you don't believe me, look up such simple concepts like "TANSTAAFL" and "Buyer Beware". In the meantime, get off your high horse like you just stood up to the system.

>>Developer: "The last game we made sucked shit and is not being played by anyone, and we are losing money because people are stealing it." RegularX: "QUICK! Make another crappy game, that'll do it!"<<

Profits make games. Pirates lower profits. Enough people steal from the developer's till and they'll have to cut the margins on their next cycle. The result is someone trying to make the next Deer Hunter instead of the next Half-Life. A cheap game for low risk and high profit, not an expensive one that "rebels" like you probably just end up downloading from KaZaa. It's pretty simple economics, actually - but you don't care because you're too busy being pissed off because someone "lied" to you.

>>being a thief does not change my attitude about people lying to me, or the principle of lying to me<<

It's game development. Things change between previews and reviews. Get that in your head and stop being such a victim about something that did you and the community no harm.

 
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112. Re: holy schmokes Jul 10, 2003, 12:01 Panick
 
*sigh* ...man I'm skipping Moog's posts, it's starting get a little boring.

Yes, It's not a great game, got it. I think we all knew that. Move on, try out the mp when it comes, move on again...

 
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111. Re: holy schmokes Jul 10, 2003, 10:04 Moog Operator
 
RegularX, you still don't get it; I am not bitching because I feel hard done by because of Unreal 2 - I am bitching becuase Unreal 2 is part of a large trend of this kind of shit. You say overadvertising is common place and I should just watch TV for some good examples? I do, and I see fake Jamaican psychics getting their asses sued off... for what? False advertising, and lying to her consumers. Since in our market, no one will take these lying devs to task (ie court), our only defense against this type of crap is consumer end. Like a boycott, or like not buying their games, or writing letters to them pointing out that after lying to us...
I don't give a sweet fuck if Unreal 2 ruined some peoples day... I do give a fuck that it is yet another game we were all lied to about. By not paying for software, obviously I am screwing someone, but in this case, as I was lied to about the product from the get-go anyway, reducing their profits is my responsibility in a free market system. I don't mean to imply that the screwing over the community is recieving is a financial one (I sympathise with you if you wasted $50 on Unreal 2), but the premise of being able to lie to consumers with no recourse is one I would not like to see instituted in a market I have a lot of fun because of. You idiots who keep saying "Oh, whatever", or "I can't agree with a theif", or "It's AOK everyone else does it" have caused this trend to become more and more commonplace.
I also do not see the connection here - Developer: "The last game we made sucked shit and is not being played by anyone, and we are losing money because people are stealing it." RegularX: "QUICK! Make another crappy game, that'll do it!" huh? If anything, voiciferous protest to shit games, coupled with low profits if any, would cause a developer to slap himself in the ass and make good and certain he released a much better game next time.

And one more thing - being a thief does not change my attitude about people lying to me, or the principle of lying to me.

 
STAY RIGHT WHERE YOU ARE, GET OUT OF THAT BED AND GET DOWN ON THE FLOOR, GET OUTSIDE RIGHT NOW, RIGHT HERE: GET DOWN ON THE CEMENT, I DONT CARE IF YOU'RE NUDE, GET DOWN ON THE CEMENT, I DON'T CARE IF ITS FREEZING! WHERES THE DRUGS, WE KNOW YOU GOT THE DRU
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110. Re: re: post #85 Jul 9, 2003, 21:56 Chance
 
Moog Operator: "Well, I am not foolish enough to purchase Unreal 2. I downloaded it."

So, we have a thief complaining that he's been lied to. Go figure.


 
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109. Re: holy schmokes Jul 9, 2003, 19:23 DrEvil
 
There's no such thing as responsible advertising, never has been, never will be. Pay attention the next commercial that comes on, or stay up late one night to watch the truckloads of bullshit that comes on in the early morning hours, video game hype doesn't hold a candle to that shit.

 
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108. Re: holy schmokes Jul 9, 2003, 17:31 RegularX
 
Oh please. You're bitching because a game you didn't pay for isn't what a preview said it would be. Boo freaking hoo. It didn't ruin anything for anybody who bother to read a review of it before buying it. If the gaming community is getting screwed by anyone, it's probably people not willing to pay for their games, which in turn causes lower profits for developers and makes shovelware all that more interesting to them.

Why don't you go find some more free stuff to complain about? I think you've kicked this one to death.

 
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107. holy schmokes Jul 9, 2003, 17:09 Moog Operator
 
You need to read my comments, never once was I bitching I got ripped off, I am simply saying, that as in ANY specialty market, responsible advertising must be enforced, and if not legally, than by the consumers. You are one of those consumers, and accepting lies about games, then saying it's ok for them to do that, will lead to the total ruin of our market. It happened to cars, TV, soap, cereal, airliners, shipping, food...
Lying and hype are what (p)reviews are for? As I knew it, reviews and previews were for community insiders to share their OPINIONS on games. I have no problem with hearing opinions (for example, RWS claims that Postal 2 was the best game ever), as they are easy, very easy to distinguish from fact. I think/9 out of 10/whatever from a review is opinion - that's what they are for. When the developer THEMSELF says "This WILL have x or this will have y, and x and y together are the best damn xy you have ever shimmied", and then delivers neither x, nor y, that is beligerent lying, and can not be accepted. Moreover, your acceptance of that crap is going to guarantee that we have a lot of it to deal with (SWG anyone?). Youse Americans always suprise me with how little logic you apply to anything, and suprise me even more with your complacency in the face of liars. As far as Halo goes, bungie jumped right into bed with Microsoft, and I won't supporting them either. Shit, even if a company of good repute, like iD lied blatantly to me I would stop supporting them. I guess doom 3 will be their test.
Wheel of Time good? I never tried it, but with recommendation like that, I will happily. 40 weapons sounds like a newbie-removal system of great efficiency I wasn't giving up on their programming abilities, but I won't give a company with a track record of terrible lying money for garbage. If WoT is really that good, I may end up buying it.
As far as warez, and having no opinion after Warezing... This is just a forum where my opinions are relavent... it makes no difference that I warezed U2, I never complained that Epic was ripping me off, just screwing me over (by screwing with this community). Get a fucking clue, and read the arguments before replying.

 
STAY RIGHT WHERE YOU ARE, GET OUT OF THAT BED AND GET DOWN ON THE FLOOR, GET OUTSIDE RIGHT NOW, RIGHT HERE: GET DOWN ON THE CEMENT, I DONT CARE IF YOU'RE NUDE, GET DOWN ON THE CEMENT, I DON'T CARE IF ITS FREEZING! WHERES THE DRUGS, WE KNOW YOU GOT THE DRU
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106. Don't count Legend out just yet. Jul 9, 2003, 14:50 Kurtz
 
This is probably irrelevant at this point, since the discussion has moved on, but I wouldn't discount Legend's ability to create a very fun multiplayer game. Yes, it's coming late. Yes, U2 wasn't the best game. Yes, they over promised and under delivered.

However, their previous project, Wheel of Time, offered the best multiplayer play I have ever experinced (and I have experienced a fair amount). Some people will disagree, but my guess is that those people were not willing to spend a few hours and learn how to use the 40 weapons, about 30 of which are actually necessary/useful in the course of a game. Talk about depth. In my opinion, WoT's standard "deathmatch" is far better than any other deathmatch, and the "capture the flag" is better than any objective-based game like BF1942.

 
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105. Re: Bah. Jul 9, 2003, 14:42 RegularX
 
Sadly no, but I do have a server that I swap in between that and Invasion. I'll gladly set up the server for anyone who wants to organize a game. Despite some press (RW was PC Gamer's mod of the month a bit ago), the Unreal crowd doesn't seem too hot to support some of the smaller mods that have been released for UT2k3.

Just post to the RW forums if you want the server changed up.

 
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