Men of Valor: Vietnam Q&A

The Men of Valor: Vietnam Q&A on Voodoo Extreme chats with 2015 development director John Whitmore about their upcoming Vietnam War shooter. They discuss plans for the game in detail, including an unusual dose of sociology for an action game:
The player takes the role of Dean Shepard, a young African American who joins the Marines out of school and is sent to fight in Vietnam. Vietnam is the first war where Americans of all colours fought alongside each other as putative equals, and the game portrays some of the tensions surrounding this new state of affairs. As the war progresses, volunteer soldiers like Dean were supplemented by draftees, some of whom were reluctant to go to war on Vietnam - Dean's younger brother among them. The conflicts between black and white and military and non-military cultures adds drama to the overall storyline.
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23.
 
Re: Men of Valor v. Call of Duty
Jun 12, 2003, 00:59
23.
Re: Men of Valor v. Call of Duty Jun 12, 2003, 00:59
Jun 12, 2003, 00:59
 
Assuming it's going to suck is as silly as assuming it'll work. Few people will know how successfully 2015 can pull something like this off until the game hits the streets.

Still, I'm a definite proponent of games having an involving story, plus I'm always keen to see people tackling issues in their art (and my entertainment).. so basically I'm hoping this is handled deftly and with a great deal of deft.

-----
I'm not even angry. I'm being so sincere right now, even though you broke my heart and killed me.
22.
 
Re: Men of Valor v. Call of Duty
Jun 11, 2003, 13:05
22.
Re: Men of Valor v. Call of Duty Jun 11, 2003, 13:05
Jun 11, 2003, 13:05
 
Be my guest and do better and ship it, euni.

21.
 
Re: Men of Valor v. Call of Duty
Jun 11, 2003, 03:17
21.
Re: Men of Valor v. Call of Duty Jun 11, 2003, 03:17
Jun 11, 2003, 03:17
 
I think the one thing you're missing with both of those games is that neither had an original story. Both were cliché ridden with token characters. What they did so well was integrate the story into the gameplay. From the looks of MoV, they have the cliché ridden storyline part right, now we'll see how well it's integrated into the gameplay.

Avatar 13977
20.
 
Re: Men of Valor v. Call of Duty
Jun 11, 2003, 02:04
20.
Re: Men of Valor v. Call of Duty Jun 11, 2003, 02:04
Jun 11, 2003, 02:04
 
eunichron, there's a concept called "making a game with a fucking story"[TM]. Valve tried it with Half-Life and Remedy tried it with Max Payne. It worked out pretty well for these guys. Maybe you've heard of them before? Others have tried it too and succeeded.

19.
 
Re: Men of Valor v. Call of Duty
Jun 11, 2003, 01:51
19.
Re: Men of Valor v. Call of Duty Jun 11, 2003, 01:51
Jun 11, 2003, 01:51
 
I wasn't really interested in Men of Valor OR Call of Duty when I first heard of them. Another war game, yawn...but I have to admit, some of the previews and screens I've seen lately are slowly changing my mind. I skipped the first two Vietnam games that came out, but 2015 I've liked ever since they did the Sin expansion pack.

I'll probably wait to read some reviews, and add me to the list of people who don't find "racial issues" a very compelling form of gameplay...
-LordSteev

Supporter of the "Unleash the Fredster!!" Fan Club
18.
 
Re: Men of Valor v. Call of Duty
Jun 11, 2003, 00:48
18.
Re: Men of Valor v. Call of Duty Jun 11, 2003, 00:48
Jun 11, 2003, 00:48
 
I wonder how this "discussion" of important issues could be presented in such a game.

Naturally having the characters just sit down and talk like in a movie would be intrusive, but this wasn't uncommon just a few years ago. Other games (NOLF and DX in particular) have dealt with this by scattering little bits of the discussion around the level. Bits that can be freely picked up by the player at his leisure or simply ignored. Then there's the diary option they had in VietCong, but this by it's nature is too cumbersome to access and too lenghty for the average player to bother with.

My best guess is that the charcters in MoV will occasionally mouth out relevant sound bites when not blowing stuff up. Press "Pause" to contemplate.

BTW the interview itself is a pretty good read. The questions were concise and the answers very informative.
This comment was edited on Jun 11, 01:04.
"Nothing livens up a robotic hymn of doom more than an amazing pair of jugs." - Brak
17.
 
meh
Jun 10, 2003, 22:40
17.
meh Jun 10, 2003, 22:40
Jun 10, 2003, 22:40
 
I'm already sick of Vietnam FPS games, what have we had, 2 or 3 already this year? Next...
-----------------------------------------------
I like pie.
16.
 
Re: Men of Valor v. Call of Duty
Jun 10, 2003, 18:46
16.
Re: Men of Valor v. Call of Duty Jun 10, 2003, 18:46
Jun 10, 2003, 18:46
 
Medal of Honor was The Suck. This one holds more promise, however.

And I think this new dimension could make the story a tad more interesting. This sort of thing has been done before. NOLF dealt with sexism. It adds more realism and helps the atmosphere along.

This comment was edited on Jun 10, 18:49.
There was only one catch and that was Catch-22
15.
 
Re: Men of Valor v. Call of Duty
Jun 10, 2003, 17:13
15.
Re: Men of Valor v. Call of Duty Jun 10, 2003, 17:13
Jun 10, 2003, 17:13
 
Ok...

But was MoH any less of a good game? If I wanted a realistic portrayal of history and reality I'd watch a documentary.

And it's not just MoH... Vietcong was still a good game, it didn't need "racial tension" in the plotline.

I'm at least glad they outright said this would be a game about race, now I won't waste my $50.

[EDIT]
I agree with Anon, though I would've preferred it be said a bit more eloquently.
This comment was edited on Jun 10, 17:18.
Avatar 13977
14.
 
Re: Men of Valor v. Call of Duty
Jun 10, 2003, 17:10
14.
Re: Men of Valor v. Call of Duty Jun 10, 2003, 17:10
Jun 10, 2003, 17:10
 
"Uhmmm... allow me to quote THE VERY NEXT SENTENCE in the interview for you:

"Vietnam is the first war where Americans of all colours fought alongside each other as putative equals, and the game portrays some of the tensions surrounding this new state of affairs. As the war progresses, volunteer soldiers like Dean were supplemented by draftees, some of whom were reluctant to go to war on Vietnam - Dean's younger brother among them. The conflicts between black and white and military and non-military cultures adds drama to the overall storyline."


This makes no diference whatsoever too making the game good or bad, its totally pointless when actully physically playing the actuall game.

Tell me how The conflicts between black and white is going to be implemented into a game?

To me you are all americans not african american not italian american just plain fucking american. Maybe if u stopped acting like u each needed some special title then ppl might get on better.

13.
 
Re: Men of Valor v. Call of Duty
Jun 10, 2003, 17:08
13.
Re: Men of Valor v. Call of Duty Jun 10, 2003, 17:08
Jun 10, 2003, 17:08
 
Games that deal with such important topics as war should be realistic and respectful of how a soldier's life really was. This is why movies like Saving Pvt Ryan are much more highly regarded by actual veterans. I don't think the average veteran wants people going into some Rambo-like movie, they don't want you to glorify war. And so, MOHAA, and games and movies like it are the ones that are tainted. They're tainted with an insulting portrayal of history and reality, in an attempt to boost profits and enjoyability.

Vietnam, according to the accounts of those who fought there, is mostly long stretches of boredom with the occasional moment of terror. This not a great design for a fun mission.-- Creating a satisfying player experience is our aim, and the research we've done helps us do that by constructing realistic elements, but realism is not the ultimate goal of the game.

I don't think this game will be that far removed from MOH:AA or, for that matter, any other FPS, gameplay wise. I'm pretty sure you'll be doing some very Rambo like things in it. I don't think you'e going to be spending half the game digging a foxhole or peeling potatoes. It is designed for a console and PC for people who like to go around and shoot at things. I admire their attempts at a deeper story line but I believe if your sensibilities are such that they are offended by products like MOH:AA then I think you need another hobby.

Don't you think that MOH:AA or DOD triggered several young minds to look into WWII and appreciate the sacrifices that were made by their grandparents or great grandparents? I have the utmost respect for Vets (my father in law fought through Italy and Holland, his brother landed at Normandy and his other brother was taken prisoner in Hong Kong in 1940 and spent 5 years as a POW. Talk about Saving Private Ryan!!! Fortunatley all made it home) and I know I could probably never do what they did but I don't think that the game itself (MOH:AA) does them a disservice. It only trivializes war in a trivial mind.

P.S. There were a lot of movies before Saving Private Ryan came along... starting in 1930 with All Quiet On The Western Front.

Edit: Included my father-in-law's brothers experience. I find it amazing the sacrifices that were made.

This comment was edited on Jun 10, 17:30.
12.
 
Re: Men of Valor v. Call of Duty
Jun 10, 2003, 16:34
Wolfen
 
12.
Re: Men of Valor v. Call of Duty Jun 10, 2003, 16:34
Jun 10, 2003, 16:34
 Wolfen
 
Jerry, all I can say is, that was very well put. Im humbled by your comments.

11.
 
Re: Men of Valor v. Call of Duty
Jun 10, 2003, 16:02
11.
Re: Men of Valor v. Call of Duty Jun 10, 2003, 16:02
Jun 10, 2003, 16:02
 
I think 2015 is trying to finally move games out of simple entertainment to something bigger, something closer to what we usually see in television and film media. Especially regarding war. Take a look at Platoon, Full Metal Jacket, and Band of Brothers. They all show people being people, with pride and prejudice of their own. Platoon's got black and white issues, BOB has jewish issues. Another thing is that 2015 may have seen their MOHAA games as too Indiana Jones-ish. It's like a comic book war game, the music swells up as you heroically drop two dozen German soldiers without a sweat.

I think the other guy's post about how the game is now "tainted" is a bit shortsighted. Games that deal with such important topics as war should be realistic and respectful of how a soldier's life really was. This is why movies like Saving Pvt Ryan are much more highly regarded by actual veterans. I don't think the average veteran wants people going into some Rambo-like movie, they don't want you to glorify war. And so, MOHAA, and games and movies like it are the ones that are tainted. They're tainted with an insulting portrayal of history and reality, in an attempt to boost profits and enjoyability.

If you're not going to treat the loss of millions of REAL lives with this respect, you shouldn't try to make money off of their corpses.....

10.
 
No subject
Jun 10, 2003, 15:58
Ras
10.
No subject Jun 10, 2003, 15:58
Jun 10, 2003, 15:58
Ras
 
There were integrated units during the Revolutionary War, and it was actually the Korean War where the practice was resumed.

9.
 
Blek
Jun 10, 2003, 13:05
9.
Blek Jun 10, 2003, 13:05
Jun 10, 2003, 13:05
 
The conflicts between black and white and military and non-military cultures adds drama to the overall storyline.
I was interested until I read that.

Call me racist, bigot, whatever, but I'm sick of storylines involving "tensions" between races. Never thought I'd see it in a game, and now one of my top 3 hobbies has been tainted.

Avatar 13977
8.
 
Re: Men of Valor v. Call of Duty
Jun 10, 2003, 12:17
8.
Re: Men of Valor v. Call of Duty Jun 10, 2003, 12:17
Jun 10, 2003, 12:17
 
"'The player takes the role of Dean Shepard, a young African American who joins the Marines'

what relevence does this have to the game? i dont seem to remember Lara Croft being described as a white British women who goes on an adventure.

How about some more important detail like gamplay.




Uhmmm... allow me to quote THE VERY NEXT SENTENCE in the interview for you:

"Vietnam is the first war where Americans of all colours fought alongside each other as putative equals, and the game portrays some of the tensions surrounding this new state of affairs. As the war progresses, volunteer soldiers like Dean were supplemented by draftees, some of whom were reluctant to go to war on Vietnam - Dean's younger brother among them. The conflicts between black and white and military and non-military cultures adds drama to the overall storyline."

geez.

-----
I'm not even angry. I'm being so sincere right now, even though you broke my heart and killed me.
7.
 
Re: Men of Valor v. Call of Duty
Jun 10, 2003, 11:32
Quboid
 
7.
Re: Men of Valor v. Call of Duty Jun 10, 2003, 11:32
Jun 10, 2003, 11:32
 Quboid
 
I think both games fit that description. About half (22 to be exact but I don't know how many made MoH) left for some reason and set up Infinity Ward.

Cheers,
Quboid

War isn't about who's right, its about who's left.
Avatar 10439
6.
 
CoD and MoV
Jun 10, 2003, 11:32
Wolfen
 
6.
CoD and MoV Jun 10, 2003, 11:32
Jun 10, 2003, 11:32
 Wolfen
 
My input. The guys at Infinity ward are very very talented, as we all know from the great product Moh. I still wish I had the chance to work with them as well, and after seeing the latest shots of the game, my fears are gone. All I can say is, I have confidence in there product.

MoV. Well, I worked on it for a bit. Also I know its come a long way since I left 2015. John Whitmore is a good visionary, he has a lot of good ideas. The team at 2015 working on MoV are very talented, I would go as far to say that they have just as much potential to be as good as the original team. They have a strong interview process, are very selective of who they hire. They know there way around there tools. Its just an office of talent.

That aside, dont forget, that one is in Unreal, the other is in Quake3. Im not sure if infinity's game will be on xbox, but remember that 2015's game will be xbox first. This makes it quite possible that, when they port to PC, the game may get a repass at graphics.

The xbox is very limiting at what Unreal Warfare can do in it versus the pc. Personally, Ill wait for the pc version hehe.

Anyways, the whole point is, its two different groups, both groups are extremely talented, they are both working in different engines that have different ups and downs, and both products will probably be pretty good sellers.

I say good luck to the both of them, and cant wait to see the final products.

(edit: oops, fixed a MOH to be MOV where it should have been instead of MOH luckily not COD, cause then i might have put MOH again anyways, well.... nevermind.)

This comment was edited on Jun 10, 11:37.
5.
 
Re: Men of Valor v. Call of Duty
Jun 10, 2003, 11:31
5.
Re: Men of Valor v. Call of Duty Jun 10, 2003, 11:31
Jun 10, 2003, 11:31
 
"The player takes the role of Dean Shepard, a young African American who joins the Marines"

what relevence does this have to the game? i dont seem to remember Lara Croft being described as a white British women who goes on an adventure.

How about some more important detail like gamplay.

4.
 
Re: Men of Valor v. Call of Duty
Jun 10, 2003, 11:03
nin
4.
Re: Men of Valor v. Call of Duty Jun 10, 2003, 11:03
Jun 10, 2003, 11:03
nin
 
This whole thing confuses the hell out of me...I want the game that the guys that USED to work at 2015 are working on (and are now Infinity Ward or something like that?)...


Supporter of the "A happy fredster is a muted fredster" fanclub.

http://www.originaltrilogy.com/
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