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Half-Life 2 Trailer

IGN's Half-Life 2 Media Page now offers a link to a Half-Life 2 teaser (the link was broken for a bit after being posted, but seems to work properly now). The 11.9 MB movie is in QuickTime format. There are also Half-Life 2 Impressions on GameSpot with a detailed rundown on what they saw, concluding with: "Frankly, we were blown away by what we saw of Half-Life 2 here, and though this was a rolling demo (albeit of real-time gameplay), Valve proceeded to demonstrate the bug bait level in action, which looked just as good as in the rolling demo. Based on the 25-minute Half-Life 2 demo, we can say with reasonable certainty that this is definitely a game worth looking forward to."

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348 Replies. 18 pages. Viewing page 3.
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308. Re: RE: 264. Examples May 21, 2003, 02:11 vajbern
 

I like Corn-Flakes!!

I like Coco-pops as well!!

I like my Corn-Flakes and Coco-Pops mixed together in the same bowl. I like how the graphics and animation parts of the Coco-Pops complement the physics engine and content of the Corn-Flakes. God, it is going to be a good year for cereal.

 
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307. Re: RE: 264. Examples May 21, 2003, 02:02 vajbern
 
Can you explain to me HOW YOU CAN SOMEONE "have a bias...

should read:

Can you explain to me HOW SOMEONE CAN "have a bias...

 
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306. Re: RE: 264. Examples May 21, 2003, 02:01 eXode
 
But... I like Coco Pops aswell.

 
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305. Re: RE: 264. Examples May 21, 2003, 01:57 eXode
 
I like Corn Flakes.

 
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304. Re: RE: 264. Examples May 21, 2003, 01:52 vajbern
 
You've said several times though things like "Doom 3's animations will be better than HL2's". That's most certainly not an all-positive viewpoint. The all-positive viewpoints we see are the ones who come in and say "both these games look superkickass", and that's all. You do indeed have a bias, albeit a scattered one.

I didn't say anything about being all-positive. Just from what I have seen in the trailers, if DOOM3 got a 10 for it's graphics then HL2 would get a 7.5. In terms of animation DOOM3 would get a 10 and HalfLife would get a 7.5 again. In terms of immersiveness DOOM3 might get a 7.5 and HalfLife 2 would get a 9. In terms of storyline, HL2 will probably get about 10 and DOOM3 will probably deserve a 6 on a generous day. I could go on all day tit-for-tat, but the games would proably come off fairly even, or HL2 would be ahead. Now, if I compared any facets of either game with what has gone before then HL2 would kick serious ass on every level (except maybe graphics versus Unreal2). DOOM3 would fail in certain areas, namely story, and kill in nearly every other facet.

So I would say I am very positive about both of these games, and am anticipating HL2 more than D3 right now, but I would not call myself biased in this case.
But I would call you all-negative in regards to DOOM3.

Can you explain to me how you can someone "have a bias, albeit a scattered one."?? It seems to a total contradiction. If you are pro different features in each game then you surely have no bias.

On numerous occasions I have stated that I am anticipating HL2 more than D3. Just because I think D3 has better animations and graphics doesn't necessarily mean that I think it is going to be the better game. In fact the opposite is true. I just don't need to bag D3 because that will also be an awesome game, but for different reasons to some of HL2's reasons.


The rest of your thread is somewhat valid: you make reasonable points, and you tell me a couple of things I didn't know.

Much of what Valve was still working on in the Source engine was cut in September of last year (their own internal deadline for the large engine work) and held off for HL3.

Bring on HalfLife3!!!


My only consolation in knowing that HL2 will not look as good as DOOM3 is that I should be able to play the damned game without buying any new hardware.

Sorry to be the harbinger of bad news once again, but that system that was demoing HL2 at E3 was top-of-the-line. Radeon 9800 and an Intel 3 ghz. And from the looks of it, the framerate didn't seem phenomenal in some of the heavy action sequences.


We should all pray that they were only trying to show the game in it's best possible light and that I will be able to play it reasonably on my Athlon 1600+XP with GF3 Ti200: I don't think so!! If I get a better fps with D3 than HL2 at the same res and qual then I will be royally pissed off.

Thanks for the info, Xombie.

 
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303. Re: RE: 264. Examples May 21, 2003, 01:17 vajbern
 

God, Xombie. You defend Half Life2 with the same gusto that you bag Doom3. It looks a little pathetic.

From what I saw, Alyx was more concerned than agitated. But this is one of those things that we'd have to really view it in its full context to understand.

You sensitive, new-age guy. Maybe they should code in her menstrual cycles to make Xombie even more sensitive to Alyx's needs?? Maybe Alyx is goin g to be the only female company Xombie has this year?? Sorry, Xombie. Just joking.


I know that is what's causing it, but that doesn't mean it makes it any less cartoonish-looking.
Pixel shaders don't do the same thing, which is why we don't see the same problem in HL2.


Give us a break!! It is going to be the first game of it's kind to use this level of lighting. Expect it to look a little overdone here and there, especially because id are going to want you to see that it is definitely in there, and not as subtle as would happen in reality. Remember the game is set on MARS, in an indoor environment, with mainly ceiling-sourced artificial light. Maybe there is this level of sheen when there isn't much ambient light to upset the direct path of the ceiling light to the sweaty forehead of the player model, or the slimy skins or the monsters from hell. You know how fluroscent light looks on a surface when you visit the office at night?? Nothing at all like natural sunlight in the middle of the day.

Remember the G4-GF3 demo that showed off an early prealpha of DOOM3 running on a GF3?? Were the shadows not grossly overdone then?? But now they are done better and more subtly. The lighting could be a lot more subtle by the time the game is finished.

We also had that problem with colored lighting in Q2. Initially every homemade level looked like a casino. But eventually mappers started doing it properly, and made it very subtle and more relevant to the level.

Expect it to be done better by mappers and in mission packs, even if it is overdone when the game is released.



I have played the DOOM3 alpha and I can tell you now, that even though the alpha is close to 2 years old, and even at 640 x 480 x 16, the alpha looks much better than any other game I have played at 1280 x 1024 x 32. The combination of lighting and shadows, and the great use of bump-mapping made the alpha look incredibly realistic when lined up next to anything I have played since. Expect it to have only got better. I can only imagine the graphics quality at higher resolutions. The lighting especially gave the alpha a lot more realistic feel. I didn't notice the sheen. It seemed like the reflection you would expect from fluro tubes.


Well, I could keep pushing the sixth-grade-reading-level gameplay, but far too many people have said "well, duh" to that

How can you even begin to comment on the gameplay unless you have even sat down and started playing the game?? I have played the alph and wouldn't pretend to know how the final game will play. We should have all learned this from the Q2 and Q3tests. My how things changed.

If you are so worried about gameplay being sixth-grade, Xombie, I have some advice. When you play D3 have the mouse in one hand and a copy of anything by any of the Bronte' sisters in the other. That will really impress Alyx.

What grade of gameplay is HalfLife2 going to have?? What grade of gameplay does any game have. After all, they are all only games.


vajbern

 
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302. Re: RE: 264. Examples May 21, 2003, 01:16 Xombie
 
What interests me is what the designers have DONE with the tools at their disposal. HL2 seems to have a much greater variety in terms of locations, characters (monsters) and gameplay. That's enough to convince me that I will enjoy HL2 more.
It seems to me that Carmack is way out in front of the rest of id, and they're trying to trail behind him. His technology always has potential, but it's far more advanced than the technology it needs to truly use it. Just like one can look at Quake 3 and then look at JK2, and it's astounding that it's the same engine. What the Source engine seems to do is use perfectly the current ability of cards, rather than forcing sacrifices in order to achieve innovation in engine tech. It's reinventing the wheel, rather than attempting to create a prototype of what could replace it.
 
Xombie x0mbie x0mb|e Xombie
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301. Re: RE: 264. Examples May 21, 2003, 01:10 Xombie
 
I will admit that my opinions are as biased as the next person's. The difference between me and someone like Xombie is that I like both games and am trying to see the positive side of both and not dwell on the negative of either
You've said several times though things like "Doom 3's animations will be better than HL2's". That's most certainly not an all-positive viewpoint. The all-positive viewpoints we see are the ones who come in and say "both these games look superkickass", and that's all. You do indeed have a bias, albeit a scattered one.

Both are going to have some bad points, but I am not going to go out of my way to identify them before I even play either game because that will ultimately ruin my gaming experience.
That's you, though. I appreciate a game more when I analyze it and argue about it. It helps to see the details that I usually wouldn't notice and be able to appreciate.

Most of his issues are so trivial that, upon reading, I often ask myself, "WHO REALLY GIVES A F**K ABOUT THAT??"
Obviously, I do.

He likes to be the harbinger of bad news, but he gets too much joy in telling us how much this news is going to hurt.
The truth sometimes hurts. And it's not like I've never been proven wrong before. Hell, I certainly got bitchslapped on what I posted in a thread last month as soon as I heard Gabe Newell mention that the lighting in HL2 was using Pixel Shaders.

Xombie won't even accept the argument that we won't know, for sure, the true extent of each games problems until we actually play through them
Only because that's not really an argument. I'm willing to be wrong about stuff. That's the best way to learn things.

refer DOOM3 thread where he harped on about the PCGamer [BIBLE] article from last year when given this argument
All of my comments on the Doom 3 article from PC Gamer are in reference only to what the developers were quoted as saying.
I'd be stupid to trust any of PC Gamer's preview opinions.

I will be hoping the upgrade will be good enough to play any game using the D3 engine. I hope HL3 is one of those games, unless Valve write a game engine that does the best parts of HL2 and D3 at the same time.
Much of what Valve was still working on in the Source engine was cut in September of last year (their own internal deadline for the large engine work) and held off for HL3.

My only consolation in knowing that HL2 will not look as good as DOOM3 is that I should be able to play the damned game without buying any new hardware.
Sorry to be the harbinger of bad news once again, but that system that was demoing HL2 at E3 was top-of-the-line. Radeon 9800 and an Intel 3 ghz. And from the looks of it, the framerate didn't seem phenomenal in some of the heavy action sequences.

Can you please make a list of all the DOOM3 issues you know of so far??
I'll try it tomorrow.
 
Xombie x0mbie x0mb|e Xombie
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300. Re: RE: 264. Examples May 21, 2003, 01:07 Midnight
 
I still want to have a detailed report on how much of the HL2 movie was scripted, how much was AI and how much was the two intertwined. If, indeed, Alyx's animations were completely on the fly then I am quite impressed - this is a significant step forward in animation and it's only a matter of time before we say "Motion capture? How mundane"

But so much of the discussion re: AI and scripting will have to wait untill we've actually got the games in our grubby little hands so we can play it through and see for ourselves. Then the real test will be to play it through a second time and see how that affects the our experience of it.

I have to say that the quality of animation/graphics is not a major issue for me when I compare HL2 and D3. They both look sensational. All the niggling little dtails like low-poly models are there because it's still a GAME being rendered in REAL TIME! Both titles are a far cry better than what we're playing today so I see no reason to complain that they aren't perfect.


What interests me is what the designers have DONE with the tools at their disposal. HL2 seems to have a much greater variety in terms of locations, characters (monsters) and gameplay. That's enough to convince me that I will enjoy HL2 more.

 
http://www.crimsondark.com
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299. Re: RE: 264. Examples May 21, 2003, 00:44 Xombie
 
Mag's got a good point, and one that might also explain the amount of expression Alyx uses. It would seem that, when considering the G-man demo, that Valve programmed the AI with actions that show certain emotions. Alyx's expressions and body language are combonations of things that the AI does to show what appears to be "concern".  
Xombie x0mbie x0mb|e Xombie
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298. Re: RE: 264. Examples May 21, 2003, 00:40 Xombie
 
But you only like focussing on DOOM3's shortcomings and HalfLife2's strong points.
You seem to have missed the several posts in the other thread where I said that Doom has a great lighting engine. You also seem to have missed where I concurred with the oddness in HL2's ragdoll physics, and when I agreed that Alyx's arms being held out looked wrong.

My point here is only that it is possible to find issue with HL2's animation system
And I have agreed with some points on that.

"1-2-3"'s: As Alyx spins around she looks like she is folkdancing in a wheelchair.
You mean how her upper body turns? Look closer, and notice how her right shoulder dips down as she turns. She's actually just pivoting and slightly twisting to look behind her.

"Lara Croft-itis" is where the attractiveness of a female model in a game has more to do with an opinion of the game than the content (a la' "Tomb Raider"). I do not really believe you have it, but you do go on about Alyx's eyes.
I'm using her as an example of the eyes simply because that's the example that sticks out in my head: Not only was she the example used in the majority of articles I've read, but also because that's the only character that one saw for an extended period of time in the GameSpot demo movies (which didn't include the G-man demo). The same eye effect is actually included with every character.

Have you noticed that Alyx's model is significantly better done than the other characters, and I'm not just talking about how beautiful she is.
I think that G-man's model seems to have as much detail as Alyx.

So F**KING WHAT?? Even with this sheen the models are significantly better looking than the models in HL2. When they are moving you will not even notice the flat edges so much so it may not be such a big issue anyway.
If the polys are more obvious, then the models can hardly be said to be "better done".

Oh, Xombie. You have such a high opinion of yourself.
Why would I have a low opinion of myself?

I do not mean to be hostile.
I'm not sure where you grew up, but where I come from, telling someone to "grow some balls", to "get a life", and accusing them of "shooting their mouth off" isn't quite considered friendly.

But should we sit back and let you post your somewhat biased opinions, and then not pull you up about criticisms that can be applied to both games
I'm perfectly welcome to you doing that. I've been perfectly welcome to people disagreeing with me. What I'm not welcome to you doing is outright insulting me. It's unnecessary and serves only to incite a flame war. You do not need to tell me to "get a life" in order to prove your argument.

Anyone could spend their time picking faults with HL2, and there a lot of faults in both games. But who cares??
I do, because I enjoy analyzing games. I enjoy the concept and theory of game design. I like arguing about it. Just like there are people that will argue with you until they're blue in the face that Freddy is better than Jason.

As I said before: "in five years both of these games will look like shit."
And in five years, all of us nerds will be arguing about two different games.
 
Xombie x0mbie x0mb|e Xombie
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297. Re: RE: 264. Examples May 21, 2003, 00:32 vajbern
 

#291. I will admit that my opinions are as biased as the next person's. The difference between me and someone like Xombie is that I like both games and am trying to see the positive side of both and not dwell on the negative of either. Both are going to have some bad points, but I am not going to go out of my way to identify them before I even play either game because that will ultimately ruin my gaming experience. It would be OK for him to identify the issues, but he needs SOME balance in doing that and needs to admit that HL2 has some major issues too.

His biggest problem is not that he only reveals issues within DOOM3, but that he tries to give these facts spin and anticipates, incorrectly the impact these problems will have on everyone else's enjoyment of DOOM3. Most of his issues are so trivial that, upon reading, I often ask myself, "WHO REALLY GIVES A F**K ABOUT THAT??"
He likes to be the harbinger of bad news, but he gets too much joy in telling us how much this news is going to hurt.

Xombie won't even accept the argument that we won't know, for sure, the true extent of each games problems until we actually play through them (refer DOOM3 thread where he harped on about the PCGamer [BIBLE] article from last year when given this argument).


#292. I don't mean to criticise the animations you refer to. I think they look very artificial, but I will be the first person to step forward and admit they are very good. In the context of what I think is going to be the best game released this year a few hiccoughs, like Alyx being badly animated won't matter to my level of enjoyment of this game.

My point was to show Xombie that it is possible to easily find fault in HL2, if you can be bothered to look for it without your HL-blinders on. What content I have seen in the HL2 movies has blown me away, moreso than the animations/models in the D3 trailer. I didn't mean to bag the game because there was an issue, just to prove a point.

I will have the game installed and being played on my computer the first day it is available to me. DOOM3 might have to wait till the end of the year, when I get my finances sorted out and can afford an upgrade. I will be hoping the upgrade will be good enough to play any game using the D3 engine. I hope HL3 is one of those games, unless Valve write a game engine that does the best parts of HL2 and D3 at the same time.


#293. F**K YOU!!! Your are funny. This is the best comment I have seen in this thread so far.


My only consolation in knowing that HL2 will not look as good as DOOM3 is that I should be able to play the damned game without buying any new hardware.

ROLL OVER SEPT 30!!!!!!!!!!!

And Xombie, you are at your best when you give the facts. Can you please make a list of all the DOOM3 issues you know of so far?? I sincerely want to know. I do not want you to list them just to prove any point in this thread. I know about the savegame and no-run issues. (If you do I promise to stop copying your signature line.)

Vajbern vAjbern vAjbERn vajbern

 
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296. Re: RE: 264. Examples May 21, 2003, 00:16 Xombie
 
Xombie...has me convinced its a crap game.
I knew you'd come around.

You've just never seen a real light source reflected off of a 3d object before in a game.
I know that is what's causing it, but that doesn't mean it makes it any less cartoonish-looking.
Pixel shaders don't do the same thing, which is why we don't see the same problem in HL2.

Well, its Doom, you've gotta keep saying something is wrong.
Well, I could keep pushing the sixth-grade-reading-level gameplay, but far too many people have said "well, duh" to that.
 
Xombie x0mbie x0mb|e Xombie
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295. Re: RE: 264. Examples May 21, 2003, 00:11 Xombie
 
A person doesn't jutter like that. It's over-exxaggerated, much more so than an actor should be (Unless your in a play)
And it's the same situation as being in a play. In a movie or other recorded performance, one can assist to convey emotion with controlled lighting angles, camera work, etc. A play is live action, though, and there are many people in the audience with different perspectives. An actor must convey emotion more with using things like hand gestures. Not to mention that we are still miles away from completely photorealistic characters, and thereby facial features should still be supplemented.

It just doesn't look natural, which is what I thought HL2 was going for.
From the interviews and the way they've focused the technology, it would see more to me that they're going more for drawing in the player, and getting him/her to be, to a certain extent, emotionally attached to the characters. One of the things that Valve said they were happily surprised with in Half Life 1 was some players telling them that they had accidently gotten Barney killed, and felt a little guilty about it.
Bringing out emotion is what, in the end, draws someone into a story.

However, since you'll be with Alyx the most, I think it's something they need to work on.. If she would just fold her arms or leave them her hips or something it would look a world better..
I don't think that was what the scene called for, though. From what I saw, Alyx was more concerned than agitated. But this is one of those things that we'd have to really view it in its full context to understand.
 
Xombie x0mbie x0mb|e Xombie
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294. Re: RE: 264. Examples May 20, 2003, 23:41 Chance
 
Interesting point about the animation system Mag, it's definitely a step forward. They still need to work on it though... currently it does generate some awkward looking moves. But then so does real life.

 
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293. Re: RE: 264. Examples May 20, 2003, 23:36 Chance
 
Bunko, there are those who attempt to remain objective, even if they fail, and those who don't. Only someone uninterested in either game could be truly objective. And I doubt we can drag in all two of them for a debate here

 
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292. Re: RE: 264. Examples May 20, 2003, 22:25 Mag
 
Yes her animations are not completely lifelike, but this only excites me more because those actions she's performing are GENERATED IN REAL-TIME!

When she looks over her shoulder, then back at Gordan, it is not simply playing a pre-recorded motion capture sequence, it a piece of code telling the model to look at point A quickly, then look back to point B (Gordan). Do you not see how huge a leap this is over current real time animation systems? She would have looked at that particular point no matter where she was standing in the room, or what she was doing - crouching, typing at computer, whatever. AND she would have looked back to Gordan NO MATTER WHERE HE HAPPENED TO BE STANDING IN THE ROOM!

ITS GENIUS PEOPLE!!!

Personally I am much more excited by the half life 2 animations. Its a credit that they look as good as they do, given that they are being assembled on the fly based on factors within the current environment.


 
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291. Re: RE: 264. Examples May 20, 2003, 22:22 Bunko
 
Whose opinons aren't biased? Yours?  
There was only one catch and that was Catch-22
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290. Re: RE: 264. Examples May 20, 2003, 21:20 vajbern
 

I'm not the only one, obviously. I don't see why you only reply to me.

But you only like focussing on DOOM3's shortcomings and HalfLife2's strong points.

-Artificial as opposed to what? (I'm asking)
-They're exaggerated just like an actor exaggerates, or how a public speaker waves his hands when he's speaking.


My point here is only that it is possible to find issue with HL2's animation system, if you want to take the same effort you take in finding issues with DOOM3's models ("sheen"). I personally think both games look great, but D3 looks better.

I have no clue what that means. (note: That seriously makes no sense to me. what are you talking about?)


"1-2-3"'s: As Alyx spins around she looks like she is folkdancing in a wheelchair.

It's the details that count. When the details are right, the whole thing looks better, especially with something like eyes. When the eyes look better, the entire character looks more realistic (this is a psychology thing).


Can we expand this and say that you think HL2 looks more realistic than D3?? If you believe this then you are a fool. Granted the environments do, but the models do not, no matter how pretty the eyes look.

And I personally have never heard that term used anywhere, nor do I have any idea what you're referring to.


"Lara Croft-itis" is where the attractiveness of a female model in a game has more to do with an opinion of the game than the content (a la' "Tomb Raider"). I do not really believe you have it, but you do go on about Alyx's eyes. Have you noticed that Alyx's model is significantly better done than the other characters, and I'm not just talking about how beautiful she is.

No, I'm not. The "sheen" is apparent on more than just the characters, it's noticable in almost every model the lighting seems to hit. I don't know if it's just because Fred isn't used to doing non-cartoon models or what, but the textures are reflecting the light far too much throughout the entire D3 video and even in screenshots. (note: this is not opinion, this is fact, unless my eyes and the eyes of several people on this board are tricking us)

So F**KING WHAT?? Even with this sheen the models are significantly better looking than the models in HL2. When they are moving you will not even notice the flat edges so much so it may not be such a big issue anyway.

I haven't noticed the same "plastic" effect anywhere in any of the Half Life 2 media. If you have, please point it out.

I haven't noticed it either, but I have noticed some nasty lighting anomalies in some of the HL2 screenshots, but I have accepted that there will be faults in both games, but too many improvements over past games to let them pass by without playing them a few times.

Yes. They could. But based on the records of both companies and even what we've seen and heard so far, it doesn't seem very likely.

HL2 has a better chance of having done this because we have seen whole scenes that have given away a lot more information, whereas the D3 trailer has short clips that each shows very little. If HL2 is 4x longer than D3 you could be right.

Then more power to you. But that doesn't mean I'm not allowed to criticize these games based on what the developers themselves have so far said and released.

I don't take issue with you criticising D3. I didn't realise there were a few important issues with the game that I hadn't read anywhere else. But you are completely unbalanced in your arguments. Some of your arguments are valid (e.g. savegames, no-run, AI issues) but others are really trivial ("sheen", zombie facial animations). I don't remember you saying one positive thing about D3, unless it was so off the cuff that it didn't really count, or it was followed by as many trivial problems you could muster to "make" a somewhat trivial point.

And yet you replied to me, and then replied to me when I deleted my post in hopes to prevent a continued flame war. Apparently that's impossible anyway. It seems that everything I say you'll take personally and in a context of hostility.

Oh, Xombie. You have such a high opinion of yourself. I do not mean to be hostile. But should we sit back and let you post your somewhat biased opinions, and then not pull you up about criticisms that can be applied to both games, but you feel should only be applied to one.
I just want you to be unbiased and stand by what you say. Anyone could spend their time picking faults with HL2, and there a lot of faults in both games. But who cares?? As I said before: "in five years both of these games will look like shit."

Keep it coming, Xombie. I am learning a lot in this thread.

Vajbern vAjbern vAjbERn vajbern

 
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289. Re: RE: 264. Examples May 20, 2003, 21:14 Tony!!!
 
Uh oh, Xombie quit like 200 post ago in a different thread, but he's still going!(So he said) Hmmm. Im going to have to go back and watch the Doom video again. Xombie almost has me convinced its a crap game. And I was thinking HL2 was cartoonish looking and flat compared to Doom (with the exceptions of the excellent character close ups.) BRB.
Ok. Back. Too glossy? You've just never seen a real light source reflected off of a 3d object before in a game. Too glossy. Well, its Doom, you've gotta keep saying something is wrong.

-Tony!!!;)
This comment was edited on May 20, 21:24.
 
-Tony!!!;)
my 360 user name is Robo Pop
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