24 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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| 24. |
Re: No subject |
Mar 8, 2003, 06:18 |
Flo |
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Wow. Mad Max RW is such a angry little troll.
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| Supporter of the "Chewbacca Defense" |
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| 23. |
Re: No subject |
Mar 8, 2003, 02:11 |
Chance |
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I agree. To disagree  It's whatever you have fun with SMA. I play paper and pencil and NWN and enjoy both -- although obviously the experience is different. My "perfect game" is still a ways off of course. Have to be FP perspective among other things...
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| 22. |
Re: No subject |
Mar 8, 2003, 01:56 |
Scottish Martial Arts |
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Whatever the official campaign was or wasn't, the modules are what you, both as a designer and player, make of them. I've played paper and pencil RPGs since 1975 (and still do) and it's pretty much the same there. If you want more than just hack and slash you have to adventure with the right people, and play -- or design -- the right adventures.
*edit* For clarity's sake...
My complaint isn't with NWN itself. It's with the content Bioware produced. The Official Campaign is not a good game. Had Bioware just released a singleplayer game without modding capability they would have been laughed out of town. Yes, Bioware made a decent engine (I find some of its rule implementation highly questionable however) but in order to have fun with the game you have to venture beyond what they made. Bioware as a result deserves no credit for any sort of fun that might come out of the game.
It's like saying the maker of DaVinci's paint is just as ,if not more important than, the artist himself. It just don't work that way.
I know the response to my complaint with NWN is to check out the toolset and the DM client. I did, and felt it was no easier to design a GOOD module than it was to design a GOOD Quake level. The adventures I've designed for PnP have proven to be fun for me and my friends. Attempts to transfer them into NWN were met with my being stifled by both the Toolset and the DM Client.
Well, I know I won't be able to dissuade you of your opinion of NWN I won't be dissuaded from mine so I won't take this any further.
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| 21. |
Re: No subject |
Mar 7, 2003, 23:06 |
Chance |
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Whatever the official campaign was or wasn't, the modules are what you, both as a designer and player, make of them. I've played paper and pencil RPGs since 1975 (and still do) and it's pretty much the same there. If you want more than just hack and slash you have to adventure with the right people, and play -- or design -- the right adventures.
*edit* For clarity's sake...
This comment was edited on Mar 7, 23:07. |
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| 20. |
Re: No subject |
Mar 7, 2003, 22:38 |
Mad Max RW |
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I forced myself to play through the singleplayer game once. Nothing but cliches and bullshit. For some reason I still felt it had a chance so a friend and I started work on a Hexen TC. We pretty much finished the first "episode" type deal until it was decided NWN was too boring to waste our time with. We're debating whether or not to finish the first part of the TC, release it then quit.
Don't get me started on multiplayer. It's nothing more than Quake unless you play with 2 or 3 people you know personally. But, you can do the same thing with classic pen and paper RPG's and isn't as ridiculous.
Oh, and the first thing I ever did with NWN was make a Darksun tileset. But, I don't see why I should jump through hoops for you people to prove I'm not bullshitting. If you wanna be a smartass and make assumptions, then be my guest.
This comment was edited on Mar 7, 22:44. |
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| 19. |
Re: No subject |
Mar 7, 2003, 22:34 |
Chance |
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*18: "I have a strong feeling that you either don't own the game, or never invested in it more than 5 hours."
Took the words right out of my mouth -- thanks for saving me the time...
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| 18. |
Re: No subject |
Mar 7, 2003, 22:19 |
Cheshire Cat ^..^ |
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There's nothing "ingenius" or whatever about Bioware. NWN is a simple hack and slash game with less depth than Diablo or just about any cookie-cutter MMORPG. The best description is a top down Quake with swords and magic missile. I have a strong feeling that you either don't own the game, or never invested in it more than 5 hours.
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| 17. |
Re: I'm failing to see the problem.... |
Mar 7, 2003, 21:09 |
patient |
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Uh... Microsoft did not make Halo.
Bungie did, which Microsoft acquired with its pocketchange
and yanked the PS2 release, the Macintosh release and the PC release...
Why? You do the math.
Microsoft's games are insipid, lacking in creativity and the good ones... are not even theirs.
Their tactics for the gaming market? Not make better games, but buy the small, talented, creative think-tanks that produce them. If you don't understand this, go to Japan and see how poorly the XBOX is doing, a country whose gaming devs produce games because of the loyalty to their fans, not empty pockets.
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| 16. |
The little guys |
Mar 7, 2003, 20:55 |
Lord Dakushna |
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I have an Xbox and I have a PC. As long as Bioware keeps producing quality titles for both, I'm happy. I would hope that Bioware's track record would allow them some leeway with Microsoft internally though. I've dealt with Microsoft in that respect before and if MS doesn't like your company or think you're not making them enough money they sic some corporate Game Designer wannabe on your ass to make decision for you and ruin your game. I would hope that Bioware has earned the equivalent of "final cut" in movies and if they are acquired by Mircrosoft they will still have the final say on their products.
What is happening to the landscape of PC gaming though. Is it now the objective of a developer to someday be acquired by a bigger developer? This model seems to work ok for console games where every 2 out of 3 games is produced by one of 10 large publishers. Where does it leave the little guy though? The best part about PC gaming is the prospect that anyone with enough talent and drive can do their own thing. In a world of big names only will upstarts be possible or will we run the risk of standardizing game development and becoming stagnant. Then again, there's always a Miramax, Image, or GoD Games around the corner with a way for the little guy to stand out. It would be a shame to lose the democracy of PC gaming though. |
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---------------------------------------
Lord Dakushna
"Laugh while you can Monkey Boy!" - John Lithgow in Buckaroo Bonzai |
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| 15. |
Microsoft is NOT buying BioWare |
Mar 7, 2003, 20:48 |
Bob |
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| 14. |
Re: No subject |
Mar 7, 2003, 20:46 |
Dr.Del |
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"There's nothing "ingenius" or whatever about Bioware. NWN is a simple hack and slash game with less depth than Diablo or just about any cookie-cutter MMORPG."
maybe you should try playing the game again... it is way above the bar set by Diablo... make your own worlds? host your own persisten world? DM client... man.. methinks you need to PLAY all features of the game ...
- Dr.Del
(this is the real Dr. Del - user id#10723, people can fake your user accounts here at Bluesnews so be careful...) |
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| 13. |
Re: I'm failing to see the problem.... |
Mar 7, 2003, 20:38 |
Hiro_Antagonist |
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Someone said:
"You're forgetting the fact that they are working on a Linux version of Neverwinter Nights. MS buying Bioware would axe all future cross platform development!"
I doubt that's the case, but it probably does mean that Bioware won't make any more PS2 or GC titles.
Just like MS has always allowed their games to be released or ported to Mac, I wouldn't see why Linux is any different. Especially if they're buying BioWare, I would expect Microsoft would want as optimal a return on the investment as they can, which would mean finishing the linux code. Plus, since NWN behaves in a network-economy fashion (i.e. the more people that have it, the more valuable each copy is), MS would probably want it on as many platforms as possible to increase market share and incent continuing sales. (See Half-Life for a roughly analagous example of this principle.)
-Scott
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| 12. |
Re: No subject |
Mar 7, 2003, 20:37 |
wasrad |
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[Insert Summoner reference here]
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| 11. |
Re: No subject |
Mar 7, 2003, 20:34 |
Mad Max RW |
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You don't have to work for Microsoft or EA to be a crappy developer. They keep putting together these multi million dollar projects that need funding from somewhere. Then you get strict deadlines, so the game is pushed out the door unfinished more than half the time.
There's nothing "ingenius" or whatever about Bioware. NWN is a simple hack and slash game with less depth than Diablo or just about any cookie-cutter MMORPG. The best description is a top down Quake with swords and magic missile.
This comment was edited on Mar 7, 20:35. |
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| 10. |
No subject |
Mar 7, 2003, 20:20 |
wasrad |
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I wish M$ and EA would just fucking collapse.
These companies are ass fucking the gaming industry and all the fucking sell outs, Digital Anvil for example, arent helping at all.
Damn it I REALLY miss when devlopers were artists and not god damn productionists.
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| 9. |
Re: Wasn't... |
Mar 7, 2003, 20:17 |
Unmaker |
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Well if everything has to belong to either Microsoft or EA, God help me, but I'd rather it went to Microsoft.
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| 8. |
No subject |
Mar 7, 2003, 20:13 |
Xombie |
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If this story were true, then BioWare would have ceased their work on the Linux NWN client. They have not.
It's not like this is the first time that CVG has lied outright. |
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Xombie x0mbie x0mb|e Xombie |
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| 7. |
Re: I'm failing to see the problem.... |
Mar 7, 2003, 20:10 |
Synic |
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You're forgetting the fact that they are working on a Linux version of Neverwinter Nights. MS buying Bioware would axe all future cross platform development!
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| 6. |
I'm failing to see the problem.... |
Mar 7, 2003, 20:04 |
Nighthawk |
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Bioware has ingenuity, Microsoft has money...
It's not as if all the creative talent is suddenly going to disappear.
Microsoft has had some great successes in terms of gaming...
Halo (from what I've been told), all the flight sims, Age of _______ series, Allegience (which was cool, although not too popular), the _______ madness series.
Shal I go on?
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| 5. |
Re: Oy Vey |
Mar 7, 2003, 19:35 |
Mad Max RW |
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Maybe with a little more cash Bioware will be able to make a real RPG.
hahahahahahahaha I kill me. Bioware doesn't have enough talent to make a real RPG.
This comment was edited on Mar 7, 19:36. |
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24 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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