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Hitman 2 & Sikhs Follow-up

The Hitman 2 front page (thanks Boba Fart) now has a link to a pop-up "corporate statement" following up on the recent uproar concerning the use and treatment of Sikh and Dalit imagery in the hired assassination sequel (story), and The Sikh Coalition Website has likewise been updated to reflect their satisfaction with this outcome. Here is a portion of the statement from Eidos:

In recognition of the concerns and sensitivities which have been raised, Eidos and the developers, IO Interactive, have responded in both a socially and commercially responsible manner by:

  • removing from the Hitman 2 website all relevant images and content;
  • taking steps to amend the game on all existing platforms; and
  • adapting the next edition of the game due out for the GameCube platform.

Eidos and IO Interactive would like to stress that no offence was intended but would like to apologise to the Sikh community and other persons for any offence taken.

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112 Replies. 6 pages. Viewing page 1.
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112. No subject Nov 22, 2002, 10:37 WayneHarrow
 
[This comment was edited on Nov 22, 10:44.

This comment was edited on Jan 30, 2013, 14:52.
 
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111. Re: hmmm... Nov 16, 2002, 15:37 Quaternion
 
It looks like better judgment has silenced Del. It's probably time for us to stop prodding him and trying to get him riled up. If we keep going, we're no better than him. It's time to just leave him alone and let bygons be bygons.

 
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110. Re: hmmm... Nov 16, 2002, 07:29 Von Helmet
 
NOLF2...
I'm just playing through that at the moment. Few things in games have made me laugh as much as the Indian policemen falling over on the banana skins, complete with comedy Tom & Jerry cartoon style slipping-on-banana-skin noise. It's genius.

 
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109. No subject Nov 16, 2002, 02:13 teh mane mahn
 
I made those. It was in one-on-one chat.

-----

"But perhaps I will see the light someday..."

"...it will not be a light for Atheists or Christians..."

"...it will be a chest-bursting, silence-deafening, bright light that will surge through the air at speeds not destined for travel..."

"...and it will be in a blaze of glory not only for man but for everything that had to endure the long suffering of life."
 
_____

The possible pain, suffering and sacrifice of discovery are by no means an excuse to remain ignorant.

The bartering of things sought earned are by a means which only little men can abide by and hope to achieve.
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108. Re: No subject Nov 16, 2002, 01:23 Metacritic
 
teh mane mahn,

What/Who are your nihilistic signature quotes from?

 
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107. hmmm... Nov 15, 2002, 19:43  schmenigan 
 
If Dr Del based his opinions on the screenshots, then what's his take of No One Lives Forever 2? Right on the inside cover of the game box is a Sikh "comically" slipping on a banana peel that the user throws at him as a "silent weapon"... foot's in the air, all cartoonish-like, clumbsy ol' Sikh... ha ha ha.

In fact, Sikh's are more prevelant and more inappropriately racially portrayed in NOLF2 than they ever were in Hitman 2... so fair's fair, right? Shouldn't the Sikh Coalition be attacking Sierra just as vigilantly, if not moreso, for THAT game and it's portrayal of the average Sikh as they did Eidos?

Just curious as to what your stance is on that one there, Del. You ready to jump on the bandwagon and start demanding the banning of NOLF2 as well? What about the game after that?

As Charlie Sheen says to Michael Douglas in Wall Street... "when is it enough?"

 
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106. No subject Nov 15, 2002, 19:31 teh mane mahn
 
The Catholic references in this game did not fit at all. They only helped to diminish the atmosphere of the game.


-----

"But perhaps I will see the light someday..."

"...it will not be a light for Atheists or Christians..."

"...it will be a chest-bursting, silence-deafening, bright light that will sure through the air at speeds not destined for travel..."

"...and it will be in a blaze of glory not only for man but for everything that had to endure the long suffering of life."
This comment was edited on Nov 15, 19:32.
 
_____

The possible pain, suffering and sacrifice of discovery are by no means an excuse to remain ignorant.

The bartering of things sought earned are by a means which only little men can abide by and hope to achieve.
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105. Re: #101 Nov 15, 2002, 07:35 quazar
 
any Germans in here?
I found the biggest German Fansite on Hitman 2 there is.. its even powered by eidos!

http://www.hitman2.de

 
--- CptQuazar ---
www.3DWARS.de
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104. #101 Nov 15, 2002, 03:30 Von Helmet
 
When you look at screenshots, how much can you honestly tell about the gameplay? A lot? A little? There's only so much you can construe about the content and how the game will actually play from screenshots alone.
Myself, I look at screenshots primarily to see what the graphics are looking like.
If you want to know how a game actually plays, or what the content of it will be, you have to look at movies or read reviews. Del doesn't seem to have done either. I'm not sure any Hitman 2 movies were even released, and if they were he's not mentioned seeing them. He's seen a friend play the game, but not the particular level in question, so that's null and void. As for reviews... I very much doubt any review is going to include the text "There's one level which involves you infiltrating a Sikh temple and brutally murdering all those evil bastard Sikhs". They might, on the other hand, say "There's one level which involves you infiltrating an Indian temply and subtly murdering a terrorist leader." which is rather different.

So... um... yeah.

I wouldn't say it was hypocritical really. Whether a game is racist or not isn't really going to come out of looking at screenshots alone. Hell, I'll wager I could find you a Half Life screenshot showing one of the black marines getting shot to pieces. Is that racist?

Discuss.

 
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103. Re: Blah Nov 15, 2002, 00:18 Quaternion
 
If he were being civil, then obviously no one would would have a problem with him.

Exactly! It's not what he's saying, but how he's saying it that's getting everyone all riled up. I can discuss and debate with people who have different opinions. But not with Del. His behavior makes it clear that he's not willing to discuss.

 
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102. Re: Blah Nov 14, 2002, 23:46 Xombie
 
Why is it that some people blast Del for doing the same when it comes to his opinions of the game?
Because he's taking a stance on a very serious issue about a very specific part of the game. You can't form a very reliable opinion with general knowledge of a precise subject.
The problem is that he's be a jackass. No one cares if he has an opinion, it's that he's touting his opinion as fact, without doing enough research. Notice that everyone in the thread who has played the game first hand is disagreeing with him.
If he were being civil, then obviously no one would would have a problem with him.
 
Xombie x0mbie x0mb|e Xombie
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101. Re: Blah Nov 14, 2002, 23:33 Nagumo2001
 
Here's one more observation. Many of us either subscribe to a magazine, IGN (which is now a pay site for the good stuff - or Gamespit if you will), or something of the like. We view screenshots, movies, and form a generalized opinion of the title.

Why is it that some people blast Del for doing the same when it comes to his opinions of the game? Is he not doing what we as gamers do more often than not? Forming an opinion about cintent and gameplay from screenshots and movies? Seems a bit hypocritical to me. While I don't agree that HM2 is racist, he is forming his opinions on the game from the same means many gamers do.

Lets put it this way. Why so many acerbic comments towards Del (it seems he only attacks the individuals who flame him)? Just express why you feel the game is not racist, and leave the lambastic commentary out. Simple, sucinct, and easy to follow.

 
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100. Re: Spicy food purveying peasants Nov 14, 2002, 19:28 JediLuke
 
Dr. Del-

I won't waste time restating my low opinion of your personality as others have. However, how can you attempt to use logic to prove a point and at the same time maintain that watching someone play part of one level of a game is enough to judge it? That's akin to passing two people on the street, hearing one sentence of their conversation, and then starting a fight because you were offended by what you heard. But I guess that's the kind of thing you would do, as you've already shown your propensity for removing quotes from context, mutilating them, and then trying to use them to prove something.

The point, as everyone has already stated, is that within the context of the overall game, the modern world, and common sense, the "offending" section of Hitman 2 was *not* racist. All of your tangential ramblings about linguistics or whoknowswhat still won't change that fact. You have not played the game. You do not grasp the circumstances. You overreacted and spoke foolishly. Please rid us of your prescence.

~Jedi

 
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99. Spicy food purveying peasants Nov 14, 2002, 13:39 drivelsadvocate
 
back in the good old colonial days, Dr del would have been soundly thrashed and made to pick tea from the thorniest bushes for his impudence. In fact, i'd go as far as to say that only the hottest chicken korma with a side helping of the crunchiest poppadoms would have sufficed in warding off his own death, and the hunger pangs of his (white) caucasian master.

This comment was edited on Nov 14, 13:50.
 
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98. Re: Blah Nov 14, 2002, 04:46 markv
 
Dr. Del;

Your big words confuse me, because you are so smart. Actually, you wrote a tonne of utter shit, which you could have summed up in 2 sentences.

As for you having viewed someone play Hitman 2 - not once in the other thread, nor have I seen in this thread, UNTIL NOW, that you had even seen the game being played. Your basis for your original arguement was the fact that:

A) You read what the Sikhs were doing and decided to jump on the band wagon.
B) You saw screen shots

With those 2 points you hopped on the bandwagon, and with bandwagon jumping like that someone might actually consider you to be a Leafs fan (gotta get my Leaf hate propoganda in there somewhere since it's hockey season and all that!). The Sikh petition and what the point they are trying to make would be considered BIASED information, and your screen shot viewing would be considered only a PARTIAL picture, and can be taken any way someone would see fit. So making your arguement from that alone (which is what you did from your original statement in the past thread) shows you as a true troll.

As for Eidos 'incorrectly portraying the Sikh community'. The game mentioned a cult, not the Sikh religion directly. Sikhs chose to assume that anyone in the game wearing a turban is Sikh, so with that assumption I guess that if I wear a turban I am now magically a Sikh? Yes there was a Sikh Temple in the game, but was it a place where people planned to cause umpteen million deaths and or shown in any way a bad light? No.

I will give you credit though, Dr. Del, this is the first post where I've seen you show any sense of intelligence. Next time though you might want to take into consideration that brevity has its place in life, and spewing off 3 paragraphs to make one point doesn't show that you're smart, just that you can type bunches n bunches of stuff.

EDIT - Btw Dr. Del - I love how you don't even give my entire quote, thanks for your news media sound bite quoting style!
This comment was edited on Nov 14, 05:07.
 
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97. Re: Blah Nov 14, 2002, 01:20 Quaternion
 
Treating others the way they treat you? Whatever! You go out of your way to pour gazoline on the fire to keep the flames alive. You love confrontation and you always have to have the last word. If you hadn't been so damn confrontational with everyone, these 2 threads wouldn't have gotten this far. That first post of yours on the first thread...Now that was a real winner. What did you expect? Coming to a site for this type of game and flaming Hitman2 as if it was a KKK game or something!? Can you say "exageration"? How about "blowing this whole thing way out of proportion"? That second one is a tad more difficult, but I'm sure you can do it. You know, it IS possible to prove a point without lying, exagerating and pissing everybody off. What about that "HA! IN YOUR FACE!" crap you've been spewing forth ever since Eidos caved? Oh yeah! You're real popular now, boyo! Keep on fighting people instead of just getting along. I learned to get along with others in kindergarten. But I don't get along with pissy little, trash talking jerks whose only purpose in life is to make everybody else's life miserable.

I'm rude? Nah! I'm just blunt and I speak my mind. I'm just trying to pound a clue into that thick skull of yours before you make a fool of yourself like Bernard Shifman did. I'm sure some people here have heard of that nimrod. You got what you wanted. Eidos caved. Now why are you still bitching? Why are you still talking trash? Now what the fuck, may I ask, are you still trying to accomplish here? Do you have a purpose other than fanning the fire?

PS: I noticed that in post #88. I neither have the time nor the inclination to read everything that gets posted on Blue's News.

 
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96. Re: Blah Nov 14, 2002, 00:17 Dr.Del
 
Shadow,

no, I just treat others the way they treat me.

People treat me with respect, I treat them with respect.
People treat me rudely, I do the same back.

I think you should re-read your post #95 and realize what a rude individual you are being.

You seem to have some anger issues to resolve.

PS: I have answered your question in #73 numerous, numerous times in this thread and the original thread.

- Dr. Del
http://www.SuperBlog.com
AMD XP 2200+, ATI Radeon 9700 Pro, 512 RAM, 19" ViewSonic LCD flat panel, 120 G WD HDD 8meg cache, WinXP Pro SP1

Mothers Are Everything. Jan 1, 1943 - Oct 19, 2002.
This comment was edited on Nov 14, 00:19.
 
Avatar 10723
 
- DrDel
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95. Re: Blah Nov 13, 2002, 23:05 Quaternion
 
Much as I hate to say it, arguing over semantics when we all understand exactly what the other person is saying, is a fucking waste of time.

I see Del's been his lovely, friendly self again. Keep it up coolio! You're so phat! What a 1337 d00d!

Seriously though, Del, you are deficient in all that lends character. You have the personality of wallpaper. You are dank and filthy. You are asinine and benighted. You are the source of all unpleasantness. You spread misery and sorrow wherever you go.

P.S.: You are hypocritical, greedy, violent, malevolent, vengeful, loathsome, despicable, bigoted, arrogant, lame, self-righteous, libelous, ignorant, clueless, harmful, destructive, manipulative, suppressive, controlling, restrictive, malignant, deceptive, stifling, uncaring, grim, unsympathetic, evil, abusive, socially-retarded, clueless, and generally Not Good.

Lighten up or go away!

 
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94. Re: Blah Nov 13, 2002, 17:14 Von Helmet
 
Much as I hate to say it, I'm with Del on this one. The game of semantics is a complex one.

All the forms I've ever filled out specify white caucasian and various other caucasian types, so caucasian is not a blanket term for white people.

But in the bigger argument... The whole Sikh thing is absurd. Bah I say. And bah again.

 
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93. Re: Blah Nov 13, 2002, 16:42 Dr.Del
 
/AgentD's Parent Mode On
ignore our child and he will go away.
/AgentD's Parent Mode Off

I probably work more hours than you do and still have time to post at Blue's. I won't be going anywhere in a long time... and I have been here for a while, ever since the www.panix.com days.... just usually posted anonymously over the years until the recent login requirement.

PS:, AgentD:

...too busy copying dictionary quotes and eating paste to get a job.

what is "eating paste"???

- Dr. Del
http://www.SuperBlog.com
AMD XP 2200+, ATI Radeon 9700 Pro, 512 RAM, 19" ViewSonic LCD flat panel, 120 G WD HDD 8meg cache, WinXP Pro SP1

Mothers Are Everything. Jan 1, 1943 - Oct 19, 2002.
This comment was edited on Nov 13, 17:11.
 
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- DrDel
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