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On DOOM III Video & Linux

John Carmack made a pair of posts on Slashdot about video hardware as it relates to the engine for their upcoming DOOM III (thanks Jacek Fedoryñski). The first post warns against misinterpreting things he's said or trusting paraphrased quotes that goes on to point out that the ATI 8500 is faster than a GeForce4 on paper, but not in real life, and pointing out the hardware they demonstrated the game on at E3 was not the 8500. The second post offers a bit more, discussing the impact of hardware limitations on game design, and going on to describe the kind of shelf life they expect for the DOOM III engine as well as good news for those hoping for a Linux version. Here's the part that covers those last two points:

Our "full impact" platform from the beginning has been targeted at GF3/Xbox level hardware. Slower hardware can disable features, and faster hardware gets higher frame rates and rendering quality. Even at this target, designers need to be more cognizant of performance than they were with Q3, and we expect some licensee to take an even more aggressive performance stance for games shipping in following years.

Games using the new engine will be on shelves FIVEYEARS (or more) after the initial design decisions were made. We had a couple licensees make two generations of products with the Q3 engine, and we expect that to hold true for DOOM as well. The hardware-only decision for Q3 was controversial at the time, but I feel it clearly turned out to be correct. I am confident the target for DOOM will also be seen as correct once there is a little perspective on it.

Unrelated linux note: yes, there will almost certainly be a linux binary for the game. It will probably only work on the nvidia drivers initially, but I will assist any project attempting to get the necessary driver support on on other cards.

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23 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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23. No subject Jun 2, 2002, 00:13 anon@210.49
 
When linux supports all the games that Windows does THEN and ONLY then can you call it superior. As a gamer I couldn't half a toss about linux.  
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22. No subject Jun 1, 2002, 20:05 Pete
 
Im no technical genius ( hard to tell eh?) but I have used linux and its not that dificult to get up and running. True there is a learning curve, steeper than windows. But because I started out in Windows, and really cant be bothered to learn new stuff I will stay until they dumb down linux a few notches.
And if you can understand that garbled mess that i just wrote, then You are the genius.

 
Doin' it Big
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21. Re: ewww Jun 1, 2002, 12:56 Anvil
 
By shell, I'll take it to mean a GUI interface of some kind. A shell to a unix person is a CLI(Command line interface). Bash on linux kicks MS command.com any day of the week.

By shell I mean interface. The windows GUI is easier to use and a lot more intuitive than the KDE or any other GUI I have seen for linux.

bash (or ksh or csh) are indeed far richer environments than command.com - thats kinda irrelevant to you average secretary / finance clerk who just wants to get things done though. Linux will be a serious player in the desktop market when people who don't know how to use it can use it.

The problem with 'some of the brand names are missing' is the brands that are missing. Star office is not MS office. GIMP is not Autocad, etc.

FWIW by profession I'm an Oracle DBA so I'm hardly going to be a *nix basher. In fact I want to see more take up of the likes of linux and FreeBSD, but the only *nix based OS that is usable by the non-computer literate is OsX on the mac.





Anvil
 
Anvil - from the land of warm beer and mad cattle.
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20. Re: ewww Jun 1, 2002, 12:20 anon@193.10
 
But when Linux gets easy to use and all that, I think the real linux hardcore users are moving to another nonfriendly OS, just to have something to do  
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19. Re: ewww Jun 1, 2002, 11:48 mohaine
 
#18
<i>and when it gets some decent apps and a shell that idiots can use, and some decent marketing not people extolling its technical virtues - it'll be a windows killer on the desktop. server only til then.</i>

By shell, I'll take it to mean a GUI interface of some kind. A shell to a unix person is a CLI(Command line interface). Bash on linux kicks MS command.com any day of the week.

As for the gui, you just point and click. Linux can be a little harder to setup new hardware, but normally this completely automatic.

As for apps, linux as MANY more apps then windows. Some of the name brands are missing, but the apps are there and of good quality.

You can use windows if you like it. I don't.

This comment was edited on Jun 1, 11:50.
 
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18. Re: ewww Jun 1, 2002, 09:46 Anvil
 
it's not about putting up with shit from windows users... it's just that linux is really quite superior.

and when it gets some decent apps and a shell that idiots can use, and some decent marketing not people extolling its technical virtues - it'll be a windows killer on the desktop. server only til then.





Anvil
 
Anvil - from the land of warm beer and mad cattle.
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17. Yeah Jun 1, 2002, 08:47 theyarecomingforyou
 
Honestly, I am more excited about the 4200s going for $200 or so. You get the 128MB of ram and should be able to overclock it to 4600 levels (out of all my Nvidia cards, my GF4 has been the most successful at overclocking).

Yeah... £150 (UK) for 128RAM GF4 4200, TV-out, DVI-out, etc. It's also the same price for the Gainward card, which is a pretty red, pink, birhgt colours, and come with TV-out and TV-in and lots of other cool stuff... but only 64mb. The extra RAM is only useful though for really high resolutions like 1600x1200, and my screen doesn't support that anyway.

 
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16. Re: No subject Jun 1, 2002, 08:41 World war 3
 
#13: Still thinking of the fun times I've had there.

_______________________ __ _

» http://www.worldwar3.cjb.net « Updated April 4th
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» http://www.worldwar3.cjb.net « Updated April 17th 2009
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15. Re: GF4 Ti4200 @ $150 Jun 1, 2002, 05:30 Ray Marden
 
Honestly, I am more excited about the 4400s going for $200 or so. You get the 128MB of ram and should be able to overclock it to 4600 levels (out of all my Nvidia cards, my GF4 has been the most successful at overclocking).

Loving all the extras MSI tossed in with it,
Ray

Edit: Woops, wasn't thinking-meant to say 4400.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
May 24, 2000: The day I learned that Looking Glass was no more.

This comment was edited on Jun 9, 08:56.
 
Avatar 2647
 
Anna. Anna? Anna...is that you?
http://www.youtube.com/blacklily8
I love you, mom.
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14. Re: No subject Jun 1, 2002, 02:05 Chance
 
#13: "sigh... God I miss STOMPED's comments."

That makes two of us.

 
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13. Re: No subject Jun 1, 2002, 00:53 anon@67.33
 
sigh... God I miss STOMPED's comments.  
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12. No subject Jun 1, 2002, 00:02 anon@68.51
 
I just downloaded their doom demo..

I can see what they mean about having high requirements.. This game looks like SH1T on my computer!
 
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11. GF4 Ti4200 @ $150 May 31, 2002, 23:50 Xombie
 
http://www.target-sale.com/tusa/items/videoagp/i03080.html

 
Xombie x0mbie x0mb|e Xombie
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10. Re: No subject May 31, 2002, 23:21 anon@64.252
 
Matrox Parhelia. Three monitors supported on one gfx card! Surround gaming... I want to drive F1-2002 with the GT mod v3 with three 21" monitors to get peripheral vision. That is going to really revolutionize the level of immersion that a race sim can offer.  
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9. Re: ewww May 31, 2002, 22:54 anon@65.26
 
Indeed, there are many "elitest" there, but what did you expect at a geek site?

Seriously though, not every Linux fan is an elitist. I for one believe in writing games that run good on *all* platforms, not just Linux, or windows, or Mac OS...

Games are fun, the more people to play them, the merrier
 
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8. Re: No subject May 31, 2002, 22:43 anon@24.65
 
I've never trusted ATI ever since my 1st ATI card a looong time ago, and it remains the same. ATI does horrid driver dev and they've proved this will never change many times. Matrox is no different and what looks good on paper never works out to be the same performance in real world testing and use.
nVidia on the other hand has done nothing but make quality product from day 1 and has always had great driver dev. It's not surprising that they were the main reason 3dfx's intellectual property was acquired by them before they went bankrupt. None of the other 2 companies had the vision to see what they saw.
 
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7. No subject May 31, 2002, 22:19 Pete
 
So what should my next video card be? nVidia, ATI or Matrox? I've heard some sweet things about the new Matrox card, "P" something or other. Any card that shares the frist letter with my name must be good.
(im thinking of upgrading in about 6 months, my current card is a geforce 2 mx 64mb sdr)

 
Doin' it Big
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6. Re: ewww May 31, 2002, 21:53 Cicatrix
 
it's not about putting up with shit from windows users... it's just that linux is really quite superior.

 
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5. Re: ewww May 31, 2002, 21:32 anon@24.162
 
Linux users have to put up with enough shit from Windows users that I think their justified in indulging in a bit of elitism. Windows users have always laughed at Linux.  
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4. ewww May 31, 2002, 21:22 Hump
 
One of the replies to Carmacks post at Slashdot:

I am very interested in the linux version, as my only box that is powerful enough will never be lowered to running MS Windows outside a virtual machine...

talk about the stereotypical elitest Linux user....

 
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"Both the “left” and the “right” pretend they have the answer, but they are mere flippers on the same thalidomide baby, and the truth is that neither side has a clue."

- Jim Goad
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