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Return to Castle Whatsis

A post on XGR outlines the changes that will be made to Return to Castle Wolfenstein to allow it to be released in Germany. Citing "my source over in Germany," they report, the German version of the game will have "replaced the Nazis with a cult called The Wolves" and "renamed Heinrich Himmler to Heinrich Höller." Update: A post on Shacknews quotes is CEO Todd Hollenshead who basically confirms the story, going on to explain the fairly obvious reasons behind the move.

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89 Replies. 5 pages. Viewing page 1.
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89. Re: Congratulations, you're a dumba$$ Dec 12, 2001, 19:34 anon@24.203
 
I saw DEREK SMART, Ph.D, and quote in a post and it immediately triggered this:

http://www.pathcom.com/~kenl/dsquotes.htm
 
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88. Re: Congratulations, you're a dumba$$ Dec 12, 2001, 19:14 Pagan
 
"I don't see the fuggin word "evil" in there. I agree it is, and the whole argument is one of semantics. But again, your sources are in question. But that's ok... if you misquote enough, it will be come fact, right? "

No doubt if you botch a quote, especially one that famous, it raises doubt of the validity of your other "factual" arguments. Your credibility isn't helped when you then proceed to question another's sources. Maybe I should stick to nice safe uncontroversial game topics. Boy is that Derek Smart an obnoxious bastard or what?


 
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87. Re: Congratulations, you're a dumba$$ Dec 12, 2001, 17:01 anon@216.231
 
"Read post # 79, he already caught his mistake (wrong vs evil) and admitted it..."


my bad: must engage brain before activating Reply() function.
 
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86. Re: Congratulations, you're a dumba$$ Dec 12, 2001, 15:39 anon@65.114
 
"Yeah, revisionist history again."

Read post # 79, he already caught his mistake (wrong vs evil) and admitted it...
 
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85. Re: Congratulations, you're a dumba$$ Dec 12, 2001, 15:28 anon@216.231
 
Yeah, revisionist history again.

Here's the real deal: Lincoln began his statement, "I am naturally anti-slavery. If slavery is not wrong, nothing is wrong. I can not remember when I did not so think, and feel. And yet I have never understood that the Presidency conferred upon me an unrestricted right to act officially upon this judgment and feeling."
I don't see the fuggin word "evil" in there. I agree it is, and the whole argument is one of semantics. But again, your sources are in question. But that's ok... if you misquote enough, it will be come fact, right?

[fCo]Karate_Kid

http://www.fightcompany.com
 
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84. Re: Congratulations, you're a dumba$$ Dec 12, 2001, 15:10 anon@216.231
 
Since I prolly shouldn't have started this whole thing by replying to someone else's stereotypical attack on Southerners; I'm gonna keep this short, and get back on topic.

Reading the subsequent thread regarding the history of the South, I see that revisionist history has permeated public schools to the point of heightening slavery as the prime cause of the succession. You touched on (but downplayed) the real reason... and the reason many are opposed ot the banning of the Confederate flag in tax-supported areas - the encroachment of the rights of the individual states by the federal government. But apparently, my "fellow Texan" did not fully grok his "Texas Secession" history. But I'm not going to go there.

To get back on topic, I lived in Berlin for several years. While I agree wholeheartedly that Nazism and its related forms of racist extremism are evil and must be discouraged; I also believe the Bundes-whatevers (various government divisions) take this too much to the extreme. Besides, the laws aren't stopping the proliferation of either the ideals of these groups, nor even the sale of items containing such rhetoric or history.

While in Berlin, I was able to walk ot take the U-Bahn (subway) to Brandenberger Tor (Brandenberg Gate... that really cool gate you see in New Year's celebration pix from Berlin) and buy Nazi daggers, pins, coats, etc from the street vendors in the markets. You just have to look for the small table behind the vendor covered with a cloth.

Anytime there is a shortage of something, that will become in greater demand. The ban on Nazi paraphernalia, etc, has actually created a higher demand as humans are affected by this little characteristic we all seem to have (desire for more information). Well, not ALL of us have it... some simply choose to listen and accept rather than study... they're usually called "liberals" or "sheep".

BlEaT

Reading various posts on USENET or "listening" in IRC, I noticed an immediate outcry from those in .de for a copy of the American "pure" version of RTCW... not just because they wanted a pirate copy to play while they were waiting for the release in Europe, but more because they wanted that which was "illegal". Many of the discussions I saw were to the effect of "I want the Nazi version even if I cannot play it online... I'm gonna buy a legit version so I can play online... but I want the real thing for the novelty of it and because I cannot have it here".

I just think the policy in general is having the opposite effect from that which the German government desires. Do I have a solution? Not really, because I haven't been tasked to really think about it... but I am certain this all-out ban is ineffective, unenforceable on a large scale, and when it comes to a game... just plain stoopud, heheh.
[fCo]Karate_Kid

http://www.fightcompany.com
 
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83. Re: Congratulations, you're a dumba$$ Dec 12, 2001, 13:07 anon@216.54
 
Amazing what DUMBFUCKS societies produce. Hmm. Let me See. The U.S. has a cutthroat capitalist economy. We have the greatest amount of freedom to assemble, religion, Spout idiotic views (See message that spawned this) etc, etc. I have lived in West Germany, Norway, Japan, Puerto Rico, Korea, and the U.S. Thanks, I'll take the U.S.

Moron.
 
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82. Re: Congratulations, you're a dumba$$ Dec 12, 2001, 12:43 anon@65.114
 
"if you study modern economics you will find out that modern capitalism is no different than slavery."

you learned that in economics? i think that was cynicism 101...
 
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81. Re: Congratulations, you're a dumba$$ Dec 12, 2001, 11:57 anon@24.203
 
You have to love, those short, inflamatory sayings.

I have my marshmallows ready because this one is roasting!
 
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80. Re: Congratulations, you're a dumba$$ Dec 12, 2001, 11:51 anon@65.31
 
if you study modern economics you will find out that modern capitalism is no different than slavery.  
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79. Re: Congratulations, you're a dumba$$ Dec 11, 2001, 23:53 Pagan
 
"if slavery is not evil then nothing is evil"

Dammit, I think Lincoln's quote has the the word 'wrong' instead of 'evil' . Guess I'm the dumbass.

 
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78. Re: Congratulations, you're a dumba$$ Dec 11, 2001, 22:51 Cyrezar
 

I'm sorry if that ruins your "Gone With the Wind" romantic notions of the Civil War but there was nothing romantic about it. The war started not because of slavery but secession. The secession was caused by primarily slavery.

Do you feel as i have mistreated you? i have not instulted you. Please quote where i said the civil war started over slavery. in fact, that was the whole point of the post, that it was used as political fuel to get the north moving.

cold-blooded non-moral capitalistic kind of way

Most would call saving money 'common sense'.

Leaving it up in tax-funded areas is wrong. It is no different than flying a swastika over a government building in Brooklyn. If you want it stuck on your pickup truck, God bless you. To many others it actually symbolizes the closest thing to a holocaust that we have had. Wellllll, unless you want to talk about the American Indian. We'll save that for another game related thread that we can invade with our rambling.

Heh. Negative.
It is an important part of American history, like i said before. To compare it to a the holocaust does a great injustice to those who were affected by it. I know ill have to elaborate later, but im tired.

 
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77. Re: X| Hilfe... X| Dec 11, 2001, 22:23 anon@24.203
 
Overall he says it's stupid to have to always release a different (censored) version for germans.

There's more to it, but babelfish it if you want it, I've done my fair share of translating for today plus I have german exams soon, so I'm not really in the mood!
 
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76. Re: X| Hilfe... X| Dec 11, 2001, 20:50 Pagan
 
I have no idea what you said but man, you sound pissed.

 
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75. Re: Congratulations, you're a dumba$$ Dec 11, 2001, 20:49 Pagan
 
"You may want to cross check your sources"

You may want to read my post. I said Lincoln was willing to allow slavery to stand in order to avoid secession and war. The South didn't buy it because of Lincoln's well known opposition to slavery and the cries from the Republicans in Congress to abolish it. The South split and the war started. There were several reasons for the secession but underneath it all was the fight over the individual state's right of legal slavery. I'm sorry if that ruins your "Gone With the Wind" romantic notions of the Civil War but there was nothing romantic about it. The war started not because of slavery but secession. The secession was caused by primarily slavery.

"It would soon have been cheaper to do it without the slaves"

Yes in a cold-blooded non-moral capitalistic kind of way, the free market would have made slavery inefficient. On the farm anyway. There was still plenty of work available involving manual labor as there is today. If there had been no emancipation, would you be in favor of slavery until the free market comes up with self-cleaning homes so that we no longer need house cleaning staff?

The South was in favor of gradual emancipation? I'm sure there were many people in the South opposed to slavery but the ones in power sure as hell weren't as I noted in the previous post. I'd like to see your source for that one.

"Taking the flag down is wrong, it symbolizes the start of government power skyrocketing. "

Leaving it up in tax-funded areas is wrong. It is no different than flying a swastika over a government building in Brooklyn. If you want it stuck on your pickup truck, God bless you. To many others it actually symbolizes the closest thing to a holocaust that we have had. Wellllll, unless you want to talk about the American Indian. We'll save that for another game related thread that we can invade with our rambling.

This comment was edited on Dec 11, 22:29.
 
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74. X| Hilfe... X| Dec 11, 2001, 20:01 anon@62.225
 
Ich hab es satt Spiele zu spielen, in den anstatt Soldaten Robotter rumlaufen, die dann wenn sie getroffen sind rufen: "Hilfe! Ich verliere Servo-Öl!!"
Oder grünes Blut... Nein; ich finde es doof das es immer eine zensierte Version für uns deutsche geben muß!!

CU [***]Steiner(GER)
 
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73. Re: Congratulations, you're a dumba$$ Dec 11, 2001, 19:46 Cyrezar
 
Speaking as a fellow Texan, I have to disagree with you on the underlying meaning of the Confederate flag. The South seceded over the issue of states' rights but that particular 'right' was the freedom to purchase and own slaves. When Lincoln became president, southerners assumed he would abolish slavery and voted to secede. While Lincoln despised slavery ("if slavery is not evil then nothing is evil") he was willing to allow the practice to remain in the southern states while banning it in the territories and new states if it meant keeping the south in the Union and avoiding war. Once the South left, the war was on and Lincoln abolished slavery a couple of years later.

You may want to cross check your sources. There were many more contributing factors that led to the secession. Also, Lincoln used the Anti-Slavery agenda as a tool to promote northern cooperation. He was not basing the war on the ownership of slaves until later on. This can and has been well documented.

I think to many, the Confederate flag represents the yearning to be free of an oppressive federal government. Most of the southerners who fought in the war probably felt this way. They weren't slave owners or even landholders. However, the people who voted to secede were. They were the rich plantation owners and farmers who didn't want to face the economic cost brought about by the demise of slavery. Their motive was pure greed and because of them, four years of slaughter and butchery commenced. This is hardly anything to honor today. I don't think the flag should be banned like the swastika in Germany but I would like to see it removed from flagpoles and buildings at government sites.

Slaves were by no means economical. It was a huge investement. You have to remember that at this time farm machinery was growing, and the machines were cheaper and offered greater efficiency and speed.
It would soon have been cheaper to do it without the slaves. The difference was in the North and souths methods of reintroducing the slaves into the general population. The Northern anti slavery sympathizers primarily wanted immediate emancipation, while the South propsed gradual emancipation, where the slaves were educated and taught Christianity before they were set free.

Taking the flag down is wrong, it symbolizes the start of government power skyrocketing.


 
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72. Castle wolfenstien, or is it just castle Dec 11, 2001, 18:45 BadKarma
 
Banning nazi symbols is the choice of the German people, but understand this. You can ban a symbol, stop public support for such organisations, but this will never stop them from existing, in fact banning something like this usually has the opposite effect, people are easily drawn to secret societies. .

You cannot change the past, but you can change the future, but that means not hiding from it, embracing it and coming to terms with the actions of those who have gone before us. We do this by allowing free speech; by allowing all sides to say what they believe is right. We will never have a free society until we allow all parts of it a voice.

My personal belief is that people who insight racial hatred should have certain parts of their anatomy removed if they themselves cause physical harm or insight someone into physical harm, but I would never want the government to quiet their voice, freedom of speech is the only thing we have left and once we start taking away those rights from the worst of us, it won’t be long before the best of us loose those rights to.

We have seen how people can easily bend the truth, take the movie u571, in it the Americans captured the enigma code, this film is a terrible and shameful injustice to those people who really risked their lives to capture it. I wonder how many Americans watched that film and believe it to be true. So I wonder how many German people face up to the war when all reference to it in Germany is disappearing.

I firmly believe that the game should not have been released at all in Germany if they thought it would cause offence, and by changing everything and abiding by the laws of Germany I can only think this to be true.

The only reason they have for doing this is money, I have nothing against that, but its seems like they can give the rest of the world the nazi hun, but not Germany, kinda makes you feel cheap doesn’t it. why didn' they just do what they are doing for the germans for all of us, we could have taken on the wolves' or did they know it would sell better with a nazi symbol to shoot at.


In finishing, its just a game, get over it, or we might as well stop reading books, watching television, playing computer games or going to the cinema, because I guarantee you, all of the above create things that someone finds offensive.

BK

Utbuilder


 
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71. Re: Congratulations, you're a dumba$$ Dec 11, 2001, 17:59 Pagan
 
Just more off-topic crap.

"We from the South still value our confederate flag NOT because of the racist implications, but because it stands for a great injustice that was done against the entire US, but more close to home - to the South."

Speaking as a fellow Texan, I have to disagree with you on the underlying meaning of the Confederate flag. The South seceded over the issue of states' rights but that particular 'right' was the freedom to purchase and own slaves. When Lincoln became president, southerners assumed he would abolish slavery and voted to secede. While Lincoln despised slavery ("if slavery is not evil then nothing is evil") he was willing to allow the practice to remain in the southern states while banning it in the territories and new states if it meant keeping the south in the Union and avoiding war. Once the South left, the war was on and Lincoln abolished slavery a couple of years later.

I think to many, the Confederate flag represents the yearning to be free of an oppressive federal government. Most of the southerners who fought in the war probably felt this way. They weren't slave owners or even landholders. However, the people who voted to secede were. They were the rich plantation owners and farmers who didn't want to face the economic cost brought about by the demise of slavery. Their motive was pure greed and because of them, four years of slaughter and butchery commenced. This is hardly anything to honor today. I don't think the flag should be banned like the swastika in Germany but I would like to see it removed from flagpoles and buildings at government sites.

One can be proud of being an American but yet still acknowledge her sins and faults. Unlike some, I don't dwell on them or allow them to blind me to the many virtues.

This comment was edited on Dec 11, 18:02.
 
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70. Ach! Dec 11, 2001, 14:35 anon@24.203
 
The situation of Wolfenstein in Germany is very complicated, and I agree to the modifications for very different reasons than those laws.

It would be unacceptable to release a game like RtCW in Germany, not because of Nazism or anything of that nature, but because they are germans! Sure to you it's all fun and games to shoot at Nazis, but in Germany this could be a very different picture. Those Nazis were the fathers and grandfathers of the people who play the games. Sure they bear a Hackenkreuz, but blood is thicker than all that. For absolutely no reason would I fire on my family, would it be Christ, a Nazi, Adolf Hitler, George W. Bush or the Antichrist himself.

Germany was hit hard by wars two times in one century, and still managed to come out "on top" of things. This is no laughing matter, and if anything they deserve a large quantity of respect. At least they have mine.

I don't know how people in america would react to a game that was the exact opposite of wolfenstein, a "divine" SS hunting down (alone) all americans, who are "evil" "wicked" and "bad", trying to resurrect the evil "George Washington".

I play RtCW because I find it is a good game and I am attracted by the graphics (who isn't?). But I prefer to think of B.J. Blaskowicz (what the hell?) as a killer rather than a soldier. I convince myself that if there was an allied soldier by my side I'd kill him too, and it all makes it easier to swallow.
 
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