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More on the WTC Disaster (Updated)

Of course this is not game related (we do not expect to be doing any further game coverage today), but with the legit news sites being almost impossible to access at times today, we've been getting loads of requests for more information about what's been going on. Here is the latest as of about 9:00 PM EDT:

  • President Bush addressed the nation 8:30 PM EDT. Here's a wire report: WASHINGTON (AP) - A grim-faced President Bush condemned ghastly attacks in Washington and New York on Tuesday and vowed to "find those responsible and bring them to justice." In the second Oval Office address of his presidency, Bush said the United States would retaliate against ``those behind these evil acts,'' and any country that harbors them.

To recap:

  • In two separate attacks, hijacked planes struck both main towers of the World Trade Center in Manhattan this morning, and both of the "twin towers" subsequently collapsed.
  • A hijacked plane struck the Pentagon in Washington, D.C. and part of it has collapsed as well.
  • A hijacked plane crashed in western Pennsylvania, near Pittsburgh. Reports indicate the hijackers planned to crash this plane into Camp David in Maryland.
  • 47 Story WTC building seven, one of the five (relatively) smaller buildings in the World Trade Center also later collapsed from ancillary damage.
  • The White House, the Pentagon, and the Capitol Building were all evacuated, all domestic flights in the US have been grounded through at least noon tomorrow.
  • Other closings include most federal offices, the stock markets, the Disney theme parks, and the cancellation of today's Major League Baseball schedule. The President's speech announced that all federal agencies will be open for business tomorrow.
  • Broadcasts out of Afghanistan showed evidence of missile attacks and antiaircraft fire, but what connection this has to today's apparent terrorist attacks in the US is not clear at this point. The US has denied involvement in these attacks.
  • In the first hints of any sort at the scope of casualties, the New York City Fire Department has estimated that as many as half of the 400 firefighters dispatched to the scene are missing. CNN has said that 78 Police officers are missing. Also, the death toll from those on the four hijacked planes has been placed at 266. The number of dead and injured at the Pentagon has been widely reported as about 100. No estimates of the number of victims from the World Trade Center have been made.
  • People throughout the United States have are being urged to donate blood to help offset significant shortages in New York and Washington. The American Red Cross in Greater New York or the American Red Cross are places to contact about donating blood or money, or both.
  • Some news sites seem to be back online. Here are some links that have been more reliable: CNN.com; CNET.com; Yahoo; The New York Times; washingtonpost.com; usnews.com; ABCNEWS.com; FOXNews.com; MSNBC; and BBC News Online.

All of our thoughts go out to the victims of these attacks and their families and friends in what must be an incredibly difficult time.

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654 Replies. 33 pages. Viewing page 1.
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654. Re: No subject Jan 23, 2007, 07:27 Lactose The Intolerant
 
So it goes

 
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653. Re: No subject Jun 27, 2004, 17:26 JoeCool
 
Well its been a while but it looks like Bush is a failure and the Iraq war was based on lies.

 
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652. No subject Oct 28, 2003, 20:49  Wookieballs 
 
sup?

 
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651. Re: Just out of curiosity Aug 4, 2003, 02:00 ExcessDan
 
hi

"The" Dan
http://users.ign.com/collection/Danteloupe
 
ExcessDan
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650. Re: Just out of curiosity Apr 17, 2003, 11:40 Jobz
 
hello

 
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649. Re: Just out of curiosity Sep 19, 2001, 09:32 Cyrezar
 
You speak the truth. However, it isnt the act of terrorism which scares me. It is the response. I have already heard several people announce that they would gladly give up their 'civil liberties' for government protection. Now, ID checks are everywhere. There will certainly be many new rules and regulations imposed by our government to 'keep us safe'. However, i do not believe for one second that the government will be able to protect anyone from terrorism. It is quite disgusting to see this attack turned into a power grab. Terrorism hurt us in the attack, but the reverberations will do far more harm i fear.

Edit: The sig seems extremely appropriate now, no?
"They that would give up freedom to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither freedom nor safety."--Benjamin Franklin
This comment was edited on Sep 19, 09:33.
 
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648. Re: Just out of curiosity Sep 19, 2001, 05:53 Regnak
 
DigitalSin

Quote:
A terrorist is usually associated with committing criminal acts of a generally violent nature against civilians. We would think of hijackings, taking hostages, blowing up buildings, and the like. Now, if you look at the history of the IRA, we would see that they primarily target British and Loyalist military personnel and installations. Granted there have been cases where civilian buildings were targeted, but almost all if not all of which were targeted at a time where the population of that building was virtually nill. This does not show the intent to actually do harm to civilans directly.
EndQuote:

I have to disagree with this point. There have been numerous cases where the IRA have directly targeted civilians - Omaugh being the prime example (30 killed, 300 injured - all civilians). The bombing of the Rememberance Day ceremony at Eniskillin (11 killed) hardly classes as a military target either. Canary Wharf (a tower block in London - hmm!) was also targeted.
Admittedly the most recent of these was in 1998.
But this doesn't alter the fact that the IRA is a terrorist organization which has targeted innocent civilians.
Yes, they are currently under a ceasefire (though this does not appear to prevent punishment beatings, kneecappings and the training of foreign terrorists), but they have yet to give up a single bullet or grain of explosive in terms of decommissioning, so forgive me for being rather sceptical about their sincerity.
Money you give them today may be used for a valid political function, but it may equally go into a bank account to be spent on a shiny new rocket launcher if the peace process breaks down.

Did you know that because of the IRA, we don't have trash-cans on our railway station platforms. The IRA put nailbombs on timers in them an then strolled off an waited for them to blow up. Think about that next time you see a NorAid collector shaking his tin on a street corner.

Edit:
And now I come to think about it - are you saying that it's only terrorism if it's against a civilian target? So the Pentagon attack was a legitimate act? Or rather, it would have been had the plane not had any passengers? By that definition, OBL could hire a 747, stuff it full of explosives and crash it into the Pentagon and not be considered a terrorist. If only he'd known!

Look forward to your reply

General point to all you flag-wavers who want to bomb something:

Question:
When does a 'terrorist' become a 'freedom fighter'?
Answer:
When you agree with his politics!

It seems to me that if we are truly going to wage war on terrorism then we have to be consistant in our definition of what a terrorist is. It's easy for GWB to stand up and declare war on terrorism, but that means pretty much anyone who has a gun.
The Kosova Liberation Army were fighting against the Serbian government - technically they were terrorists. NATO helped them and bombed the shit out of the Serbian army. Doesn't that make NATO guilty of supporting terrorism.

Life ain't black and white - the good guys aren't all blond haired and blue-eyed with clean shiny teeth.

Think about it

The artist formerly known as anon@158.152

This comment was edited on Sep 19, 06:38.
 
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647. Feel free to correct me. Sep 18, 2001, 19:05 Thomas
 


 
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646. Re: This War Sep 18, 2001, 18:51 anon@217.5
 
"Remember these fundamentalists are attacking our morals and our integrity. We must fight them with integrity and high morals."

Well actually you wouldn't be fighting us with high morals as that is just what we would like to see
 
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645. Re: This War Sep 18, 2001, 17:46 Dolo
 
Our humanity will progress with or without the acceptance of religion or God into our lives.

We can't let this be about religion. The enemy will win if we let this theme go in that direction. The theme of the war is about sensless and brutal attacks -- and justice.

The fundamentalists would love us to take an anti-religious stance, because it fuels their fire. Saying people will survive without God only proves we are heathens meant to be purged from the Earth. Remember these fundamentalists are attacking our morals and our integrity. We must fight them with integrity and high morals.

Chalk it up to world-wide growing pains, and as a world we are facing severe growing pains now that select people from the middle east have successfully attacked two prime targets in the west.

We must retaliate. The questions remain -- who, what, where, how and when?

The interesting part of this mess, to me, is that paranoia could have prevented the attack. If we were a little more skeptical of everyone, we might design a plane or better yet, a means of mass transit that does not involve sitting conscious while you travel. Maybe a "people-cargo" plane needs to be invented that uses a form of knockout gas to render people unconscious before they fly. Or maybe a cryo-tube type aparatus. Surely we would recover the cost on efficiency, since you could stack passengers and fill a plane right up!

I think it's down the road, and the same kind of technology would be required for deep space travel. I think we need to find a way to also use virtual offices more, to spread out our population so it isn't such a lush target for terrorism.

Just a few thoughts, really.

~dolo

 
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644. Re: First post Sep 18, 2001, 17:32 Dolo
 
Clearly your grasp of the English language is lacking.

 
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643. First post Sep 18, 2001, 17:18 Thomas
 
What should Bush do? He got about four choices...



First he could do nothing. He could just improve the US safety and leave this incident alone, simply because he has no concrete target. Nobody know if it is Osama bin Laden and nobody want a war. Choosing to do nothing will change the image of US to a weak country.

Second he could say it is Osama bin Laden(since we don't have other known target) and could try to get him throught diplomacy. However do you really believe someone like Osama bin Laden will surrender? There is no way on earth he will, since he knows he will get killed by "accident", or will get to face an one-side jury.

Third Bush could go for a quick war: Atomic bomb? Neutron bomb... which a lot of American want. It is obvious... it is the US policy... it is an eye for an eye, blood for blood. Now this idea will killed more than one innocent person. He will destroy the ecology of the country, and I strongly believe no country on earth will support US after that.

Fourth, Bush could decide to attack strategic targets. That sounds much better than the 3rd option. But what are you going to target? Military bases? Done by the soviet. Some suspect buildings? Done already. Schools? Done too. Actually Afghanistan is a very poor country. There are not much left to destroy but rocks or cheap houses. Would you waste a few rockets that cost thousand $$ to destroy a $10 house? Well we are right now wasting money by using the most high tech equipment, and by moving troops around for a possible war. We are really using the best equipement and probably everybody is laughing at us. Who will send an invisible to radar jet to a country that don't even have a radar? Who will send some troops to a country you don't even know, against some people who have nothing to lose and have many years of experience in war. The Soviet and the English people tried to beat them. They lost! And now I keep on hearing that people want revenge. All you will get is a lot of blood on both sides, a lot of money wasted to get or kill one guy, and US will get a very bad image from the rest of the world. Not only we are already appearing to the world as the fat guy who go to the Burger King everyday, but we are on top arrogant and stupid. This solution is completly worthless but it looks like most people I read about believe in(http://www.shacknews.com/).



Account: yes4me banned by some extremists in the http://www.shacknews.com/.

 
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642. Re: No subject Sep 18, 2001, 15:56 anon@217.81
 
#631 "We need to give people more credit to having the common sense not to follow hate (Hitler being the exception)."

That's the unfortunate thing. If history has taught us one thing, it would be that we do not learn anything from history. Hitler was treated as a god in Germany.

Don't get me wrong, events can teach us many things and they can be remembered, but in time - unfortunately they seem to be forgotten. I can only say I believe (personally) that many of these things are spiritual in nature. I do not wish to rub salt in the wounds of the American people here or anyone else for that matter. This is my personal view and I respect everyone else has the right to believe in what they want - or even flame me in the mean time for this post. That is your God given right. I just mean that if you look at the many images of Hitler, you will see a reverence in the peoples eyes that is only synonymous with worship, which brings me to this 'spiritual' relationship.

http://www.hitler.org/images/fuhrer.speaks2.jpg

Maybe there are many people on earth like this? Maybe another one in particular will rise? If that is the case, maybe we are in trouble? Now the world has become so interdependent that if one nation goes down, in all likelyhood, they could bring down the rest with them. Nations are merging (EU and other regional mergers in Asia etc.) that this could provide a springboard for the next Hitler. Except this time the world would be under this persons control.

This was such a disgusting act of horror and I am trying to see it from another side. Sorry if I may have offended anyone here by mentioning things that many do not believe.
 
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641. Re: This War Sep 18, 2001, 15:37 Cyrezar
 
It certainly is strange how many posters here express such animosity towards God and Christianity.

"They that would give up freedom to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither freedom nor safety."--Benjamin Franklin
 
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640. Re: This War Sep 18, 2001, 13:46 anon@64.162
 
Americans are being sent to Afghanistan to take care of business. This is no longer about hate or revenge. It is about justice. From what I have seen, justice transcends concepts like revenge. Justice can be considered the ultimate revenge, but it is not revenge. Justification of terrorist attacks is not needed to see that they are inheritly evil. These anti-american, anti-people, anti-peace terrorists DO come from other countries. They breed fighters and they preach war. To them, Their fight is for God. For us, the fight is for us. we don't need God to understand that something tragic has occured, and needs to be fixed.

Our humanity will progress with or without the acceptance of relegion or God into our lives. Obviously these terrorists came from 'somewhere' they left a trail, and our agents are doing the best they can do (perhaps more) to track down the orchestrator of this world terrorist attack.

If there has been one thing I have learned about people, during my time on Earth. Some love the Earth, some don't care for it, and some don't care to think about the Earth, they have too much on their minds. No matter what we are doing, what is happening, we could be having the times of our lives, or suffering somewhere in a hole, we must remember that the Earth is a blue sphere in a vast interstellar that is our universe. What we do, as a people, as a species, and as individuals, will reflect on how we will conquer our fears in the future, and how we will prepare for and repair those unforseen, ungodly tragedies yet to come.

We are americans. We do not want to die yet. We want to live. We are also Earthlings. We are of this place, and we share it with the billions of our brothers and sisters. No matter how we feel about theworld, theworld will be there to take care of us, involuntarily, and unconditionally.

Removing the world-killer WILL will heal our Earth.

God willing or not.
 
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639. Re: This War Sep 18, 2001, 12:26 anon@213.122
 
You see the work of God in this?  
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638. Re: #614 Sep 18, 2001, 12:06 anon@62.30
 
I'm not arguing over words with you, although you could look this one up "fuck off"

You are missing the point.
 
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637. To Anyone Conected with the Attack... Sep 18, 2001, 10:54 anon@207.75
 
You guys blew it. That attack hurt alot, yes. But, you had the power to defeat America in your hands, and used it to simply give us a black eye. Before Tuesday, 1000 people working together would have had the power to defeat the entire USA by simply buying plane tickets and box cutters. You could have waited and gotten many people in place, and destroyed virtualy every major building in the USA in a matter of hours. Anyone with half a brain would have taken that idea, and realised it was the answer. Now, you spent your idea on a simple few attacks. Painfull as they were, they will not stop us. You had to power to bring us to our knees, and instead used it to wake us up to the danger. Because of your actions we have a safer nation, are now aware of what was the greatest danger to our security, and you have doomed your cause. Thanks.

U S A
 
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636. Re: Just out of curiosity Sep 18, 2001, 10:31 DigitalSin
 
I honestly would have to say that to apply the label of terrorists using today's context to the IRA would not be fair. Seriously give this consideration for a moment. For sake of argument lets exclude the Real IRA, RHD, UVF, etc.

A terrorist is usually associated with committing criminal acts of a generally violent nature against civilians. We would think of hijackings, taking hostages, blowing up buildings, and the like. Now, if you look at the history of the IRA, we would see that they primarily target British and Loyalist military personnel and installations. Granted there have been cases where civilian buildings were targeted, but almost all if not all of which were targeted at a time where the population of that building was virtually nill. This does not show the intent to actually do harm to civilans directly.

Would you say this behavior is more akin to military strategies, as opposed to fanatical criminals out to do nothing but kill people? Just using terms from recent events, the words "IRA demilitarization" or "IRA ceasefire" would be more appropriately applied to military forces, not rogue terrorists.

I think the whole situation is very much like when the British had to get the Romans out, or the US war for independence.

Now finally, to disregard terrorists acts committed by almost all military forces around the world including American and British is unfair. It really is an unfortunate tactic that is used, but we don't consider American or British soldiers terrorists do we (although had the word been around during the 1700s, the British would have applied the terrorist label to Americans)?

I hope the parallels I've drawn there between terrorism and war make some sense (hey, its early in the morning here ) As I said, I would never support acts of violence against Irish or British common citizens.

I feel for the British people and what they've gone through with the turmoil in Ireland. Interestingly enough, a recent poll showed a majority of Britons supported pulling out any British interests in Ireland. I can certainly dig that information up if you'd like to see it.

Thanks for your lively and mature debate

 
====================
You wouldn't care what people thought of you if you realized how seldom they do
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635. Re: This War Sep 18, 2001, 04:49 anon@213.177
 
God bless the world !
(please don't give me the God bless America sentence it implicitly says "and not the rest of the world))
 
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654 Replies. 33 pages. Viewing page 1.
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