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More on the WTC Disaster (Updated)

Of course this is not game related (we do not expect to be doing any further game coverage today), but with the legit news sites being almost impossible to access at times today, we've been getting loads of requests for more information about what's been going on. Here is the latest as of about 9:00 PM EDT:

  • President Bush addressed the nation 8:30 PM EDT. Here's a wire report: WASHINGTON (AP) - A grim-faced President Bush condemned ghastly attacks in Washington and New York on Tuesday and vowed to "find those responsible and bring them to justice." In the second Oval Office address of his presidency, Bush said the United States would retaliate against ``those behind these evil acts,'' and any country that harbors them.

To recap:

  • In two separate attacks, hijacked planes struck both main towers of the World Trade Center in Manhattan this morning, and both of the "twin towers" subsequently collapsed.
  • A hijacked plane struck the Pentagon in Washington, D.C. and part of it has collapsed as well.
  • A hijacked plane crashed in western Pennsylvania, near Pittsburgh. Reports indicate the hijackers planned to crash this plane into Camp David in Maryland.
  • 47 Story WTC building seven, one of the five (relatively) smaller buildings in the World Trade Center also later collapsed from ancillary damage.
  • The White House, the Pentagon, and the Capitol Building were all evacuated, all domestic flights in the US have been grounded through at least noon tomorrow.
  • Other closings include most federal offices, the stock markets, the Disney theme parks, and the cancellation of today's Major League Baseball schedule. The President's speech announced that all federal agencies will be open for business tomorrow.
  • Broadcasts out of Afghanistan showed evidence of missile attacks and antiaircraft fire, but what connection this has to today's apparent terrorist attacks in the US is not clear at this point. The US has denied involvement in these attacks.
  • In the first hints of any sort at the scope of casualties, the New York City Fire Department has estimated that as many as half of the 400 firefighters dispatched to the scene are missing. CNN has said that 78 Police officers are missing. Also, the death toll from those on the four hijacked planes has been placed at 266. The number of dead and injured at the Pentagon has been widely reported as about 100. No estimates of the number of victims from the World Trade Center have been made.
  • People throughout the United States have are being urged to donate blood to help offset significant shortages in New York and Washington. The American Red Cross in Greater New York or the American Red Cross are places to contact about donating blood or money, or both.
  • Some news sites seem to be back online. Here are some links that have been more reliable: CNN.com; CNET.com; Yahoo; The New York Times; washingtonpost.com; usnews.com; ABCNEWS.com; FOXNews.com; MSNBC; and BBC News Online.

All of our thoughts go out to the victims of these attacks and their families and friends in what must be an incredibly difficult time.

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654 Replies. 33 pages. Viewing page 18.
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314. From CNN Sep 11, 2001, 23:36 Ray Marden
 
Explosives found in van; two to three arrested; no other information (currently) known...

-Ray

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I choose you, Pikachu!!!!!!111
 
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Everything is awesome!!!
http://shoutengine.com/GarnettonGames/
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313. Sympathies Sep 11, 2001, 23:32 anon@207.215
 
Let me begin by sending out sympathies to victims and those others who have been damaged by this atrocity.

I wish to point out that all of us should not jump to conclusions and that blatantly making assumptions is not a healthy thing to do. A lot of posts have already listed a myriad of scape goats - countries, organizations, races, and even class. For those of you who are doing just that - you have already fallen for the plans of those suicide terrorist: this is exactly what they was hoping for. They want their hatred, if any, to spread like a plague.

Well, it doesn't surprise any bit to see these kinds of posts: posts preaching for a war (or even reiterating the history of our wars for some strange reasons); posts debating over nuclear weapons; or any other post for a great change in our society---afterall, Bluesnews is indeed a site for many diehard FPS fans.

Everybody seems to be angry, chanting things like "we must do something" or "let's get our revenge". Oh, you wish to get some justice out of this? And how would you do that when the ones who brought about this atrocity are now dead? They are suicide terrorists and they carried out their wishes. I guess it's a little too late to make them suffer for these injustices. Now there are others who are saying that there are some other individuals who helped harbor this act - that is something that should not be existing in your minds as a fact. And if there really is no target to place all the blame upon, what will you then do? Cower in your corners and weep away, knowing that there is nothing you can do? Knowing that there's nobody or no country to blow up and unleash your anger upon?

The only thing left to do is to hope that the worst is already over. Hope that there won't be any upcoming war, which many of you seem to be overly excited about, and hope that no more lives will be lost in the near future.

A young student told me that even though the word, war, has only three letters - it is still an incredibly huge word.

Remember that.
 
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312. Re: I'll tell you what's going on. Sep 11, 2001, 23:18 JediLuke
 
...And ultimately, the point being is that Palestinian does not equal Muslim, and Isreali does not equal Jew.

Finally! Why do people keep referring to "Palestinians and Jews?" First, use like terms, second, know what you're saying. Plenty of Israelis aren't Jewish. Lots of Jews aren't Israeli. I'm sure the same goes for Palestine and Muslims. Let's not make any generalizations. The various reports of Palestinian reactions do greatly disturb me; however this does not cause me to hate or want to kill all Palestinians, or all Muslims.

~Jedi

 
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311. Re: From .ru Sep 11, 2001, 23:11 anon@24.184
 
I'm Russian too, and to have you know chief.....Mercedes are cheap in Russia especially considering the rubel is worth maybe .5 of a cent. I love Moscow, it has one of the best night lives in the world but it's still dirty and the people are still corrupt. So don't be so judgemental, the wealthiest people in the world do in fact live int he united states including those of which that work in Silicon Valley. Why do you think they chose the US? Theres a better life in this country and thats a fact.  
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310. Re: Let's not make this a witch hunt. Sep 11, 2001, 23:10 JediLuke
 
I experienced the same thing today. It shocks and terrifies me that the same people loudly complaining today because (no joke) the mall is closed and their favorite shows won't be on tonight because of the news may be leading the world soon. These people want some country to hate and annhilate and be done with it. They are as bad as the Palestinians who celebrate in the streets and don't even realize it.

I am saddened that I am too young to donate my blood, I want to help in some way. Action needs to be taken, and unfortunately is was most likely a small group of rebels that attacked us.

I agree, you present many good points and reflect my sentiments very accurately.

~Jedi

 
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309. sorry. Sep 11, 2001, 23:01 sinew
 
america is a grandfalloon, same as every other country and/or religeon in this world. i beg you to send hope for those suffering, not for some illusionary entity. after all, unity is dandy but candy is more realistic. go eat some sugar, it'll make you feel better for a bit.

ahmed shah massoud is probobly dead , he was a tactical benefit, and really photogenic. does this have anything to do with anything? who knows. go have some chocolate and wait for tom brocaw to tell you the truth.

hate begets hate. love begets hate. hate begets willy wonka. willy wonka begets slugworth. is there any hope for us as a species? manu chao may say so.

governments of the world, i beg you. listen to manu chao and don't forget to feed the children.

(good thing slugworth was a phoney. eh, holden claufield?)

remember, you are alive. spread the word and be nice.

sorry.

 
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308. Re: Let's not make this a witch hunt. Sep 11, 2001, 22:53 anon@24.4
 
I believe Robert A. Heinlein once said something to the effect of "The reason humans laugh is because some time it just hurts so much that there is nothing else you can do."

Like I said in my post, not all of the kids were joking about it and apathetic about it. Many, especially the more intelligent, paid close attention with a more somber attitude, realizing the seriousness of this event. My girlfriend was one of the ones that realized the seriousness of the event but found it so depressing that she couldn't talk about it, so she talked about someone else. My Spanish teacher said, "Ever since I first heard about the crashes I have done nothing but file papers. I cannot control the events in NYC and DC, but I can control my papers." Some of the other teachers cried throughout the day. My eyes watered, the tears only held back by the anger within me against those responsible and the fact that I was to young to help in any way, to young to even give my damn AB blood. There were those of us mature enough to care.

There were those at my school that were not mature enough to care. Here's a quote from a friend of mine:
"I turned around to a fellow student who had not understood the enormity of the situation. I asked her, "Do you know what just happened?" I made her slightly angry that I would interrupt her conversation about a note she wrote. She looked at me with blank eyes, and I wanted to reach out and shake her. HOW DO PEOPLE NOT KNOW??!! I explained to her what had happened, and she looked at me with a dubious expression, clearly not believing me."

I saw kids that were genuinely laughing at the plight of others, as opposed to laughing out of pain. These were kids that did not care about others tragedies, as long as they weren't personally hurt it did not matter to them. These were kids that walked through the halls as if nothing happened, complaining about their petty problems. Girls asking if their hair was ok. "You know what john said? Damn I am going to whack that boy upside the head next time I see him." Things like that.

This was a life changing day for many people. Perhaps all of America. It's not a day to be laughed out or joked about. I can see laughing in pain, but there is a difference between laughing in response than joking about it.

Perhaps the best description I've heard all day was a CNN correspondent when the North Tower collapsed: "There are not words."

--Ewigekraft23
 
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307. Replies/2 cents Sep 11, 2001, 22:52 Propagandhi
 
Just responding to individual posts, trying to illustrate how I feel on this issue :-/

7. Yes, jump for joy.. We have a bull-headed president that barely made it through College. Sure, he'll listen to the military: But is that really a good thing? As you said the terrorists knew this and went ahead reguardless, would they really do this without a reason? Maybe the terrorists want the US to retaliate to make the US look more aggresive/evil in the eyes of those living in the middle east (seems obvious to me..)? We don't want to piss off the people that control 90% of the world's oil reserves and thus control whether we get to continue our extravegant American lifestyle's.

Not only that but we don't know even know if it truely was an outside job (remember Oklahoma.) For all we know it was another group of militants trying to up-route the government from within.


10. When you think about it the threat of a nuclear attack isn't really that great, everyone knows we have enough nukes to literally destroy the world and that we will use them if pushed hard enough (well, at least we're the only nation to have used them in the past.) Provoking a nuclear confrontation is not the goal of anyone, there are always basic issues at stake (Palestine's displacement for one, the Iraqi no-fly zone being anouther, and the list goes on.)


15. What exactly is cowardly about this attack? They sacrificed their lives for a cause they believed in, and they did so in a very direct manner (I'm not sure how you could get any more direct, short of trench warfare.)

Dropping a missile out of the back of a plane that's going faster than the speed of sound, now THAT's cowardly and believe it or not we do it every other day somewhere in the Middle East (of course, this isn't news so you never hear about it.)

Also, you seem to be jumping the gun here. Arafat (sp?) is as stunned as anyone else, and more apologetic than most, Osama Bin Laden allegedly doesn't have the resources for a mission this large (despite his millions,) and Saddam would have been more direct/up front about why it was done etc...

In other words it doesn't fit any of the Mid East "Players" profiles so you really shouldn't go blaming the palestinians, iraqies, or any other middle eastern organization at this time. Right now the only people you can blame are the men and women that run the United States government, without them the middle east would not even be in this volitile situation and, if they are indeed responsible, this situation could have been easily avoided.... Hell, a year ago at this time we were on the verge of peace in the middle east.


16. A war may or may not be a possiblity depending on who is responsible (Dubya's comment, made this very night, about not distinguishing between the accused and those who shelter them does make it a very real possibility though, at least in my opinion..)


18. Ok Mike, picture this. A larger, more powerful, yet utterly alien country decides that the Islamic people are the rightful owners of the western sea board, the midwest, and Alaska (just cause..) and tells you that you can either adopt their culture, religion, and form of government or you can move. You can't possibly tell me that you would just sit back, change your religion, your diet, your dress-code, and everything else that makes you you, just because a larger and wealthier nation tells you to.. But, even if you do believe that can you say the same for every single person in all of the United States? There are already militant groups throughout the U.S. which are displeased with the current government, just think what they'd do under the Islamic government!

I pose these questions because this is exactly what we (the UN) did to Palestine (maybe you already knew this, maybe you didn't) after WW2. Now do you see why they're fighting?


22. If Osama Bin Laden is in fact responsible and we do try to sieze or assassinate him then it is very likely that Afghanistan will not relinquish control peacefully. Even if they protest a little I could see Dubya over reacting and sending the troops in (his comment about not distinguishing between the accused and those who shelter them comes into play once again.)


35. I really don't think this is going to end with a Nuke dropping (unless there are further situations), even Dubya isn't that stupid (hopefully.) The reasons I don't see any nuking in our near future are many:

-The West Bank is very small and very close to Isreal, the US's allies.
-Arafat himself likely had nothing to do with this, thus, nuking his country would be like executing a witness.
-No one even knows who carried out the plot, by the time this information is found heads are likely to have cooled off.
-Dubya would not be backed by enough of America to make it worth it (politically.)
-The International community would not support such an action.

There are more reasons, but these are some of (in my opinion) the biggies.


37. The US's missiles have missed: hit schools, hospitals and other such innocent buildings. This is known as collateral damage and is considered common place in most American air strikes, missile bombardments, and other military operations, who are the cowards now (we've even coined a phrase)?


38. Smuggling a weapon onto an airplane (especially within the USA) is a very difficult thing to do, then there's the fact that each plane hi-jacked was a coast to coast flight that never made it across the coast (thus having lots of extra fuel.) The planes arrived at the WTC within very close proximity (time wise) to one another. If the 2nd plane had taken off 5 minutes earlier I'm willing to bet that the 2 WTC buildings would have gone down much faster and the casualties would have been much higher, this deep a strategy reflects a fair amount of planning, especially if those involved were foreigners (getting into the US and with a weapon, or purchasing a weapon while not a legal resident is something that is fairly hard to do.) In my opinion, there was a great deal of planning that went into this operation. Not only that but they almost definately had to teach of their men to fly (in case there were casualties.)


39. If by "political leverage" you mean pissing people off, then you're correct. The United States already have military and economic advantages, it's not a country that's short of "political leverage." It's also not short of enemies, or people willing to become enemies if provoked. Todays situation is a wonderful example of what happens when we provoke a nation a little too far. How would a missile shield prevent this kind of situation? By making people madder? Intimidating them? <sarcasm>Great plan, reverse psychology has always worked flawlessly.</sarcasm>

What I'm trying to show to you is that the US cannot make itself invincibile, it just has to understand that it has to be nice. Being nice, giving people what they want, is not nearly as difficult at preventing that which cannot be prevented. What are we defending if we become a nation whos only goal is to become invincible?


40. Please don't pretend we haven't killed just as many innocent civilians as the next guy. The United States has killed more people than any other nation or organization, and all these people weren't soldiers (kyoto, nagasaki..)


42. Osama Bin Laden does not speak english, so why would he use the english alphabet to establish an incredibly vague reason to destroy the US's economic center? His name doesn't even have the same number of characters in his language as it does in ours.


46. Perhaps the only ones that knew of the plot were on the planes and no longer have the breath to take credit for their actions. The act was terrible, but they did accomplish their goal (whatever it may be.) My guess is that they wanted to stir up the US, get them to figure out who they were, what their cause was, and thus get the greatest amount of plubicity ever concieved of :-/ .


47. Listen to yourself, you have nothing on your mind but destroying all of palestine, reguardless of the loss of civilian casualties! You're no better than the men who destroyed the WTC, in fact, I think you're far worse as you try to justify your actions as retaliation (when in fact that is no doubt why the did what they did!)


---addressed the cowardly business enough---


67. And how would you go about killing them? They're already dead, we have no idea who there leaders are, where they came from or what they look like! Are we jsut going to carpet bomb the middle east and hope those responsible were killed? What if it was an attack from within our own borders? We must be patient and extract those involved individually rather than in massive, sloppy counter-attacks.


72. So it's ok for us to carpet bomb them, killing 100's of thousands of citizens, but one of their people decides we've done a great injustice against them and retaliates and suddenly they're a criminal. What's the difference between them and us if we just hit back?





Ok, I'm too tried to read more, but I think I've covered all my opinions on the major issues of this disaster. Please, don't misunderstand me and assume I have no feeling of saddness or loss towards those who lost their loved ones today. I do not believe that whoever was responsible did the right thing, I just think that this kind of act was innevitable and that we (the US) did nothing (especially in the last year) to try and calm/correct the situation, we deserved what we got because of our hands-off policy towards the middle east (at least when it came to peace talks, bombing is a different matter entirely..)

Well, these are my views...

 
I eat pasta!
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306. Re: I'll tell you what's going on. Sep 11, 2001, 22:42 spyder11
 
The American's quickly pointed fingers at the MUSLIMS, as if Muslims and terrorism are connected.

I am Canadian. I normally wouldn't state what my nationality is.. but under these circumstances, I do so to bring perspective. You contradict yourself by generalizing Americans when you say that they are pointing fingers at Muslims. I for one have met many Muslims, and know, like many others (but admittedly, not all) in both America and Canada, that the Muslim religion teaches respect for all life. Please do not stereotype.

 
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305. C.I.A. vs Terrorists Sep 11, 2001, 22:35 F1
 
Just to re-enforce the...

Answer for All World Problems
~EDUCATION~
If you really really think hard about it. Everything on this Planets and it's future, YES! including yours ALL can be traced back to 1 eroding word in this world if NOT the US.
~EDUCATION~ now a days seems to be less and less "un-cool" to becoming a smarter and better person. I guess joining a gang or a terrist group would be easier and much "cooler."

Christ you would think that maybe someday in the future we can contain and/or prevent. BAD people boarding a plane at the airport, but I am guessing it isn't much of a problem yet.

GRRRRRRR

~ForGoTTeN OnE~
Please wake me when it does become a problem, shheezzzzz.

 
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304. Re: Let's not make this a witch hunt. Sep 11, 2001, 22:33 Uther
 
For the record, I am a teenager who watches Jackass. I have also read the Crucible, and consider myself to have morals. You can't just denounce a whole generation based on the apathetic, amoral view given in the media.

-Uther

 
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303. Re: Let's not make this a witch hunt. Sep 11, 2001, 22:30 Uther
 
Everyone copes with something like this... humor is a common mechanism. Just because someone is joking doesn't mean they're not taking it seriously; you can't criticize someone for taking some time to fully comprehend the magnitude of this disaster. When we feel threatened, many of us compensate with humor; I can't speak for you, but I feel pretty damn threatened.

-Uther

 
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302. How can anyone do something like this? Sep 11, 2001, 22:26 ReverendRyan
 

I just woke up this morning at home in Australia to news of this tragic attack. Just want to send out my condolences to everybody affected by what has happened...I don't know what else i can say.

 
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301. Empathy Sep 11, 2001, 22:20 anon@203.199
 
Hello All,
I just hope you and your families come through this crisis safe.
Ravi B (India)
 
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300. Re: Let's not make this a witch hunt. Sep 11, 2001, 22:08 anon@24.4
 
I wish we had more kids like you. The difference between you and the other students? You obviously were raised with a sense of morals and responsibility. How do I know? It shows in your reaction, your intelligence, and your demeanor. While you are watching the Crucible, they are watching Jackass. What did you really expect from them?

Thank you for the compliment, but I must admit the reason I am different is not because I am watching the Crucible while they are watching jackass, it is that I read the Crucible while others are watching Jackass. It's the reading that makes me the way I am. But once more, thank you for the compliment. I am grateful there are people like you out there that realize the problem of youth apathy instead of being apathetic along with the majority of us.

--Ewigekraft23
 
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299. No subject Sep 11, 2001, 21:57 Amidst_Void
 
This is for you pro-nuclear, trigger happy, NRA member, 13 year old Anarchist idiots. (That sums up FPS players fairly well)

"I know not what weapons World War 3 will be fought, but World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones." -Albert Einstein

 
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298. Hrrm, is this guy in on it? Sep 11, 2001, 21:52 Management
 
Saw this link on shack site - the guy seems like a wacko - but has some peculiar insight into "something happening" 7 days from now (which turns out to be 9/11/01)

http://www.shacknews.com/funk.y?id=1960164

----
Provided by Management for your protection.
 
----
Clint is iterating.
Poor guy.
----
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297. Re: Food for thought. Sep 11, 2001, 21:49 anon@213.122
 
Quote:

People, welcome to the beginning of a new age in world history

urm, perhaps I am being thick but what does this statement have to do with the original post?
 
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296. I'll tell you what's going on. Sep 11, 2001, 21:42 Amidst_Void
 
...And ultimately, the point being is that Palestinian does not equal Muslim, and Isreali does not equal Jew.

I mean, seriously people, get the basics down for God's sake. I don't have to annylise much to figure out who's a fool in this forum. I see people assosiate the Isrealis with "Jews", it just cracks me up, the Isrealis must enjoy that. Think about it this way, I prefer to be called an American or Theist rather than a "Christian" (whatever that is), which is currently the largest religion in America.

Moving onward though, although it is a religious war in the Middle East, we can't blame any particular peoples. The American's quickly pointed fingers at the MUSLIMS, as if Muslims and terrorism are connected. Cleary there is a strong Isreali/Jew relationship with America, the Isrealis essentialy control the media, this has lead to years and years of anti-Islamic behavior coming from the west. The impact on westerners created by this Isreali influence is a pro-Isreali attitude, the Isrealis are always labeled as the "good guys" or the "peace makers" which would clearly be wrong from a learned perspective.

What I'm essentially getting at is, don't blame a whole group of people, in this case Muslims, for the actions of a few people (WTC center bombers). Currently, Islamic countries have a 1% crime rate and we judge 99% of the people based on this one percent, that's unlearned rubish.

"When the doors of perception are cleansed, man will see things as they truly are, infinite." -William Blake

 
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295. Re: Food for thought. Sep 11, 2001, 21:41 anon@65.31
 
People, welcome to the beginning of a new age in world history.  
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