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More on the WTC Disaster (Updated)

Of course this is not game related (we do not expect to be doing any further game coverage today), but with the legit news sites being almost impossible to access at times today, we've been getting loads of requests for more information about what's been going on. Here is the latest as of about 9:00 PM EDT:

  • President Bush addressed the nation 8:30 PM EDT. Here's a wire report: WASHINGTON (AP) - A grim-faced President Bush condemned ghastly attacks in Washington and New York on Tuesday and vowed to "find those responsible and bring them to justice." In the second Oval Office address of his presidency, Bush said the United States would retaliate against ``those behind these evil acts,'' and any country that harbors them.

To recap:

  • In two separate attacks, hijacked planes struck both main towers of the World Trade Center in Manhattan this morning, and both of the "twin towers" subsequently collapsed.
  • A hijacked plane struck the Pentagon in Washington, D.C. and part of it has collapsed as well.
  • A hijacked plane crashed in western Pennsylvania, near Pittsburgh. Reports indicate the hijackers planned to crash this plane into Camp David in Maryland.
  • 47 Story WTC building seven, one of the five (relatively) smaller buildings in the World Trade Center also later collapsed from ancillary damage.
  • The White House, the Pentagon, and the Capitol Building were all evacuated, all domestic flights in the US have been grounded through at least noon tomorrow.
  • Other closings include most federal offices, the stock markets, the Disney theme parks, and the cancellation of today's Major League Baseball schedule. The President's speech announced that all federal agencies will be open for business tomorrow.
  • Broadcasts out of Afghanistan showed evidence of missile attacks and antiaircraft fire, but what connection this has to today's apparent terrorist attacks in the US is not clear at this point. The US has denied involvement in these attacks.
  • In the first hints of any sort at the scope of casualties, the New York City Fire Department has estimated that as many as half of the 400 firefighters dispatched to the scene are missing. CNN has said that 78 Police officers are missing. Also, the death toll from those on the four hijacked planes has been placed at 266. The number of dead and injured at the Pentagon has been widely reported as about 100. No estimates of the number of victims from the World Trade Center have been made.
  • People throughout the United States have are being urged to donate blood to help offset significant shortages in New York and Washington. The American Red Cross in Greater New York or the American Red Cross are places to contact about donating blood or money, or both.
  • Some news sites seem to be back online. Here are some links that have been more reliable: CNN.com; CNET.com; Yahoo; The New York Times; washingtonpost.com; usnews.com; ABCNEWS.com; FOXNews.com; MSNBC; and BBC News Online.

All of our thoughts go out to the victims of these attacks and their families and friends in what must be an incredibly difficult time.

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654 Replies. 33 pages. Viewing page 6.
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554. OT sorta...Nostradamus Sep 14, 2001, 12:45 anon@64.220
 
Lest anybody out there still think that Nostradamus predicted any of the events that occurred this past week...please go here ---> http://www.snopes2.com/inboxer/hoaxes/predict.htm It's not a joke or satire in any way. It's the simple facts of what Nostradamus REALLY predicted.

And more on topic, my American brother or sister who posted #546 was right on the money. "As Americans we will weep, as Americans we will mourn, and as Americans, we will rise in defense of all that we cherish." How right this is...
 
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553. Re: Feh Sep 14, 2001, 12:35 anon@130.86
 
Persh, I would like to remind you of a couple things.
1. Dropping the bomb had nothing to do with Europe. We dropped it on Japan. Definately did perk up the ears of the countries who hated us...but it was mostly for Japan's sake. By the time we were going to drop the bomb on Japan, we had already beaten back the Axis powers, and the war in Europe was pretty much over...just cleaning up.
2. I serriously doubt us as Americans would be speaking German if we didn't get involved...most of Europe maybe...but not us here in America. If anything...we'd be speaking Japanese...but they weren't even considering invading us...they just wanted to get our presence out of the Pacific so they could expand their empire there.

Was WWII important? Hell yes! Was the Atomic Bomb imporant? Hell yes! Just please try to refrain from generalizaitons, these are what breeds hate and anger.

In the situation we are in where the enemy isn't clear, I think we are taking the right measures to ensure that we don't make any hasty mistakes. In WWII we knew who the enemy was, and what he looked like, in this situation we don't. They used our own planes against us, and pretty much destroyed a lot of evidence in the process. Of course we are all angry and demand vengence for what went on. But how stupid would us as Americans look to the world if we bombed the hell out of Afganistan to find out it was one of our own, or China, or any other country for that matter. As evidence mounts, it seems more and more to be like it was Osama bin Laden, but we can't do much until we know for sure.

My prayers are with the families and anyone affected by the horrible actions.
 
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552. Quote Sep 14, 2001, 12:00 anon@66.136
 
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." --John Stuart Mill  
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551. Re: To All Who Hate Americans Part 2... Sep 14, 2001, 11:58 anon@66.136
 
#546

BRAVO!
 
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550. Re: To All Who Hate Americans Part 2... Sep 14, 2001, 11:55 anon@24.4
 
You know what? Why don't all you peace-loving maggots go sift through the body parts at WTC? Why don't you hand over the shattered remains of a victim to their loved ones waiting beyond the rubble?! Tell THEM how violence is bad, and it's a darned shame their family members were ripped to pieces and burned...but gee whiz we just CAN'T hit back, because it's a "no-no".

"Peacemaking is what is called for here."
That's kind of jackass-mentality that would have let Hitler walk across the earth doing whatever he wanted, you morons.

"Ooooo..Hitler is mean! He's mass murdering everyone, but violence is bad."

Goddamn makes me sick.

Bin Laden is gonna die for this.
 
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549. Re: Ireland Sep 14, 2001, 11:47 anon@24.4
 
A trial! Oh yeah...that's JUST what we need. I'm sure that will bring about change in the world.

Terrorists are mad dogs that must be put down. I am sickened by the comments of all you people who think "hurting people back is bad". Grow the F up. It's time for some retribution and viloence is the only language these sub-human bastards understand.
 
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548. In mourning Sep 14, 2001, 11:44 anon@162.33
 
On this day, a post with no political or religious comment, just thoughts of those lost, and those in pain.

Friday, September 14th, 2001.
 
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547. Re: To All Who Hate Americans Part 2... Sep 14, 2001, 11:44 Anvil
 
Now we don't know for sure who did this, but suppose just suppose you were a Palestinian arab who had seen years of rocket attacks by helicopter gunships in reply to stone throwing, who had seen land they considered holy and the land of your ancestors removed fgrom you by force, who was occupied by a hostile and aggressive force. and you knew that all of this was impossible without the help of the US Great Britain and their allies. Might you not say

What was it you hoped to teach us? It occurs to me that maybe you just wanted us to know the depths of your hatred. If that's the case, consider the message received. And take this message in exchange: You don't know my people. You don't know what we're capable of. You don't know what you
just started.

But you're about to learn.

Violence begets violence and to an extent violent retribution is certain and called for. However it is no conincidence that judaism,christianity and islam all hold 'Blessed are the peacemakers'.

Peacemaking is what is called for here.

Anvil

 
Anvil - from the land of warm beer and mad cattle.
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546. To All Who Hate Americans Part 2... Sep 14, 2001, 11:24 anon@12.9
 
Since my last post generated so much commentary I thought I would share this as well. Sadly I do not know who is responsible for writing this excellent piece. I know it moved me and accurately expresses my feelings. Beware those who rouse the sleeping giant.

Anyway here is the article...

They pay me to provide words that help make sense of that which troubles the American soul. But in this moment of airless shock when hot tears sting disbelieving eyes, the only thing I can find to say, the only words that seem
to fit, must be addressed to the unknown author of this suffering.

You monster. You beast. You unspeakable bastard.

What lesson did you hope to teach us by your coward's attack on our World
Trade Center, our Pentagon, us? What was it you hoped we would learn?
Whatever it was, please know that you failed.

Did you want us to respect your cause? You just damned your cause.

Did you want to make us fear? You just steeled our resolve.

Did you want to tear us apart? You just brought us together.

Let me tell you about my people. We are a vast and quarrelsome family, a family rent by racial, social, political and class division, but a family
nonetheless. We're frivolous, yes, capable of expending tremendous emotional energy on pop cultural minutiae -- a singer's revealing dress, a ball team's misfortune, a cartoon mouse. We're wealthy, too, spoiled by the ready
availability of trinkets and material goods, and maybe because of that, we walk through life with a certain sense of blithe entitlement. We are fundamentally decent, though -- peace-loving and compassionate. We struggle to know the
right thing and to do it. And we are, the overwhelming majority of us, people of faith, believers in a just and loving God.

Some people -- you, perhaps -- think that any or all of this makes us weak. You're mistaken. We are not weak. Indeed, we are strong in ways that cannot
be measured by arsenals.


IN PAIN

Yes, we're in pain now. We are in mourning and we are in shock. We're still grappling with the unreality of the awful thing you did, still working to
make ourselves understand that this isn't a special effect from some Hollywood blockbuster, isn't the plot development from a Tom Clancy novel. Both in terms of the awful scope of their ambition and the probable final
death toll, your attacks are likely to go down as the worst acts of terrorism in the history of the United States and, probably, the history of the world. You've bloodied us as we have never been bloodied before.

But there's a gulf of difference between making us bloody and making us fall. This is the lesson Japan was taught to its bitter sorrow the last time anyone hit us this hard, the last time anyone brought us such abrupt and monumental
pain. When roused, we are righteous in our outrage, terrible in our force.
When provoked by this level of barbarism, we will bear any suffering, pay any cost, go to any length, in the pursuit of justice.

I tell you this without fear of contradiction. I know my people, as you, I think, do not. What I know reassures me. It also causes me to tremble with dread of the future.

In the days to come, there will be recrimination and accusation, fingers pointing to determine whose failure allowed this to happen and what can be done to prevent it from happening again. There will be heightened security,
misguided talk of revoking basic freedoms. We'll go forward from this moment sobered, chastened, sad. But determined, too. Unimaginably determined.


THE STEEL IN US

You see, the steel in us is not always readily apparent. That aspect of our character is seldom understood by people who don't know us well. On this day, the family's bickering is put on hold.

As Americans we will weep, as Americans we will mourn, and as Americans, we will rise in defense of all that we cherish.

So I ask again: What was it you hoped to teach us? It occurs to me that maybe you just wanted us to know the depths of your hatred. If that's the case, consider the message received. And take this message in exchange: You don't know my people. You don't know what we're capable of. You don't know what you
just started.

But you're about to learn.
 
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545. Re: Feh Sep 14, 2001, 10:42 anon@24.19
 
"In short, we're already destroying our planet at an accelerating rate... and if we do destroy it, then the terrorists have won. Remember this is the world your children and grandchildren will have to grow up in, and they won't know what happened on Sept. 11 2001 .. They will be too busy trying to fix the mess we left them. "

Amen to that brother. It's a shame about the people who must be stopped and reminded of this, for I fear that we cannot save the whole of the world from this ignorance.

"An eye for an eye, and the whole world goes blind-
Mahatma Ghandi"
 
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544. Re: Feh Sep 14, 2001, 10:29 Armadas
 
We must refrain from using nuclear weapons. The short term effect may accomplish the goal, but in the long term, the environment and any carbon based lifeform (everything) is affected with a high degree of hazzard.

It is already a known fact from the effects of nuclear fallout from a certain nuclear satellite launched by the US in the mid to late '60s (I forget the name of this satellite). The satellite went dead and re-entered the earths atmosphere releasing all of its radio-active properties into the atmosphere. Apparently every living organism carries a peice of this radiation with them... in fact you can take a radiation ticker up to someone and get a reading of radiation from this satellite.

And people wonder why things like cancer seem to be on the rise, even on those that eat healthy, don't smoke, and have no history of cancer in the family.

In short, we're already destroying our planet at an accelerating rate... and if we do destroy it, then the terrorists have won. Remember this is the world your children and grandchildren will have to grow up in, and they won't know what happened on Sept. 11 2001 .. They will be too busy trying to fix the mess we left them.

My 2 cents,
Armadas
Canada

 
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543. Re: Ireland Sep 14, 2001, 10:26 Ewigekraft23
 
Well, said. This is the first article of any kind that I've seen that truly shows how big the world impact is in deaths alone.

Some of in America are smart enough to realize that this is not just our tragedy, and that there are just as many that feel sorrow abroad as there are here.
 
--Ewigekraft23
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542. Re: Ireland Sep 14, 2001, 09:26 DigitalSin
 
Well said, and thanks for that info.

Erin go braugh

God Bless the USA


 
====================
You wouldn't care what people thought of you if you realized how seldom they do
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541. Re: Feh Sep 14, 2001, 09:12 anon@155.178
 
Reminder: If the US did not drop the bomb in World War II we would all be speaking German and there would only be one race. The Germans were not far off from their own ATOMIC Bomb. True dropping the bomb killed many CITIZENS in Japan... my question is how many did it save? If NATO does not wipe the Terrorists off the planet we are all in danger. Not just here in the USA, but all over the world. We must stand as one!

Persh
 
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540. Re: No subject Sep 14, 2001, 08:24 anon@212.199
 
Hi,
Well, Palestinians couldn't have been calebrating about jenin because the Israelies entered Jenin in the night *after* the attack on WTC.

Sorry to blow your arguments away... I know there are palestinians (probably the more educated) who didn't want this to happen - but the true face of the same people who celebrated when Iraq sent skads to Israel have been discovered.

The #534 post is part of elaborate palestinian propaganda , part of which is the fact that videos which was taken in the day after the WTC attack have been censored by the palestinian authority. The censorship in the palenstinian authority been known for quite some time and unearthed when an italian news company videod the happenings in Rammalah when a croud of "innocent palestinians" butchered two Israely reserve soldiers after that the Italian news agency published an apology to the palestinian authority, fearing no more broadcasting be allowed... they even fired the poor news guy responsable...

Blue, I am sorry I am doing this at your site - but this post have been published, so I feel I have to respond.


 
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539. Ireland Sep 14, 2001, 08:14 ColinDotCom
 
I'd just like to mention as many americans are probably not aware of it, that there is a national day of mourning in Ireland today. The country has virtually shut, with the exception of emergency services and companies dealing with the states.

We sympathise immensly with our american brothers and sisters, In fact, many Irish and irish-americans were killed in the tradgedy (i.e. many of the fire-fighters and police were of irish descent). However that's not the point. Alot of people have been upset by how many americans died. I'd ask those to be upset simply because PEOPLE died. And that goes for both sides of the atlanic. If you think it doesn't affect you or your country, well here is a report from the irish times.
IRELAND: said three Irish people have been confirmed dead.

BRITAIN said nearly 100 of its citizens were confirmed dead. Foreign Secretary Mr Jack Straw said "the total number of British deaths is unlikely to be less than the middle hundreds and maybe higher."




**************************


ARGENTINA said two of its nationals are missing.
AUSTRALIA said three of its nationals were confirmed dead. Another 90 who were in the vicinity of the World Trade Center at the time of the attacks were unaccounted for.

BRAZIL said five of its nationals are missing.

BANGLADESH said at least 50 Bangladeshis were killed in the carnage at the World Trade Center, where many worked in restaurants and offices.

CHILE said one of its nationals is missing.

CHINA said two Chinese, a man and woman both in their 60s, died aboard the plane that was sent into the side of the Pentagon. The government was trying to confirm a family's report that a 32-year-old was also killed in the attacks. A 41-year-old Chinese person was missing.

COLOMBIA said two citizens died on one of the four hijacked planes. The Colombian Red Cross said 116 others are missing.

DOMINICAN REPUBLIC said three of its citizens are missing.

EGYPT said one of its nationals was confirmed dead and at least three others are missing.

EL SALVADOR said one of its citizens died on one of the four hijacked planes, and 18 others are missing.

FRANCE said a small number of its nationals working in the World Trade Center are not accounted for.

GERMANY said over 700 German nationals are on an official list of people missing, a spokesman for the interior ministry said today.

INDONESIA said one of its citizens died on one of the four hijacked planes and 12 to 15 others are missing.

ITALY said seven Italians are missing. Six of them worked in the World Trade Center.

JAPAN said two Japanese died on the hijacked planes, and that another 20 who were in the World Trade Center were missing.

MALAYSIA said seven of its nationals working in the World Trade Center were missing.

MEXICO is missing 11 nationals in the attacks on the World Trade Center, according to the Mexican consul in New York, quoted by media. The consul, Mr Salvador Beltran, said 150 Mexicans worked in the centre, though media said hundreds more worked in the restaurants on the lower levels and in the immediate vicinity.

Tepayac, a network of Mexican community organizations, said as many as 500 Mexicans are feared dead in the collapsed towers.

PARAGUAY said two of its citizens are missing.

PERU said at least five of its citizens are missing.

THE PHILIPPINES said seven Filipinos were missing.

PORTUGAL said three Portuguese were believed to have died in the World Trade Center attacks while around another 20 were missing.

SOUTH AFRICA media reported that at a 41-year-old South African man living in the United States died aboard the first aircraft flown into the World Trade Center while two other South African men in the WTC for business around the time of the attacks were missing.

SOUTH KOREA listed 27 of its nationals as missing.

SWEDEN said one of its citizens was missing.

SWITZERLAND said four of its citizens were killed: two on board one of the planes that smashed into the World Trade Center, and two who were in the towers. Another two who were in the vicinity were missing.

TAIWAN said nine Taiwanese were missing.

ZIMBABWE At least five Zimbabweans were known to have been working at the World Trade Centre, while one worked in the Pentagon as an engineer.

this is about all of us. I just hope Bush realises that killing more innocents won't bring back the dead. Those involved must stand trial and be made to face the world.

 
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538. Not a day to argue Sep 14, 2001, 07:00 anon@158.152
 
My sincere condolences to all those affected by these atrocities.

Maybe today is a good day to put aside politics, there'll be time enough to debate tomorrow.

To those in the US, can I say that there seems to be a unanimous sense of shared grief and support for you here in the UK. I cannot remember an event that has extended those feelings across the seas in this way.

Paul
 
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537. Re: Someone Sent Me This Sep 14, 2001, 06:39 anon@193.133
 
#441.

Urm, the Canadians need to do a little more research......... Their are lot of plain wrong and 'mis-leading' facts in that article.

Lastly - I am pro America...

Once again my heartfelt sympathies go out to all those affected by this tragedy.

In the UK today we held a 3 minute silence across the land for those affected.
 
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536. Feh Sep 14, 2001, 05:26 anon@216.175
 
"429. Re: Why shouldn't we?! Sep 12, 16:31 anon@129.196

Just a reminder to those who have forgotten history. I would not use war on Japan as a reference to why we should fight now. You do recal what happened when we declared war right? yeah the Americans in all their righteousness decided to use atomic warfare (an atrocity all on its own) against the CITIZENS of Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Gee, that sound familiar? Bombing innocent civilians. Or perhaps you'd like to put all the people of MIddle Eastern decent into internment camps just like the Japanese. War breeds all sorts of ugliness as a side-effect, and should not be something you jump right into. What we need now is careful consideration of our options and not a bunch of irrational people screaming for blood."

What it boiled down is that Japan attacked us, an invasion of mainland Japan would have meant the loss of many more lives of our own and the Japanese would have bitterly fought to the very last man. I'm sure you think you have the right answer to what should have been done in that situation, but you don't. I'd also like to remind you that the Japanese showed no mercy to anyone they invaded and had little problem with killing civilians.

Did that make it okay to kill them? No. It's never okay. You have to remember however that war is a crime, like it or not, and in that situation it's either you or them. People like you are more likely to point out the few terrible actions committed by the U.S. and to completely ignore the many atrocious deeds committed by it's enemies. In the end it came down to what would have ended the war and yet at the same time prevented the extreme loss of life on our side. What can I say? The world sucks.

I don't think any solution you could present today would have been any better.

Mr. Jojo
 
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535. To all forum posters ... Sep 14, 2001, 03:59 anon@62.30
 
Is it just me or is this discussion going off at bigger and bigger tangents ? I've read some truly moving posts on here, a few have brought tears to my eyes, I've been personally affected by this tragedy with people I know who will never be coming home, as I'm sure have people on this forum... but the forum now seems to be degrading into politics, slurs and trolls and totally pointless arguments... I won't be coming back.

Thousands have died in the biggest single act of violence since the last war, and I'm sickened to the core, it's affected every right mined human on the planet - there is no excuse for this act, and the people who brought this about, must be held to account or our brothers and sisters will have perished for nothing.

Let us all pray that there will be a resolution to this crisis.

David.
 
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