Jerykk wrote on Jun 11, 2015, 23:40:Axis wrote on Jun 11, 2015, 08:48:
You are wrong, I never said "Divinity has sold more units because it's a better game" Nor did I say anything about Pillars being a failure. You just wasted a ton of your life googling dumb shit that don't matter.
I said Pillars was a good game, and I said better games get better attention for longer. And the subject was length of time on steam charts.
So... you claim you never said that Divinity sold more because it's a better a game, but you did say that Divinity got more attention because better games get more attention. Do you not see the inherent contradiction there? Probably not, actually. I don't think you've put a lot of thought into this.
Axis wrote on Jun 11, 2015, 08:48:
You are wrong, I never said "Divinity has sold more units because it's a better game" Nor did I say anything about Pillars being a failure. You just wasted a ton of your life googling dumb shit that don't matter.
I said Pillars was a good game, and I said better games get better attention for longer. And the subject was length of time on steam charts.
Gimme a fucking break Verno, that's the kind of argument that makes me not take you seriously often.
Obsidian sequeled the Fallout series, SWTOR series, NWN, made SPSOT, Wasteland 2, marketed with constant dips in the Baldurs Gate pool, etc. AND, are going to be making the Pathfinder series. They have some of the heftiest RPG nostalgia factor in the business with plenty of modern mega hits, all before the Pillars hype.
Comparing Obsidian to Larian would be laughable in any normal conversation with most of you "where the wind blows" opinion riders...
CJ_Parker wrote on Jun 10, 2015, 13:20:Jerykk wrote on Jun 10, 2015, 12:42:
Your reading comprehension is lacking. "Pays homage" is not the same as "from the makers of." If you watch the Kickstarter video, they actually give themselves credit for a bunch of RPGs but BG is not among them.
Uuhh... so you are illiterate then? Why did you skip the second paragraph where they clearly state "Project Eternity aims to recapture the magic, imagination, depth, and nostalgia of classic RPG's that we enjoyed making" and "At Obsidian, we have the people responsible for many of those classic games".
Seriously, I'm speechless at your lack of reading comprehension and your profound lack of ability to process information. Then you claiming to "offer facts" (more like grade A bullshit) while ignoring REAL facts presented to you is simply cute at this point.
The facts speak for themselves which isn't very important depending on how they are taken in. It was your "IWD re-release poor sales means BG fans aren't around" that made me realize you were getting desperate.
jdreyer wrote on Jun 10, 2015, 15:03:
Right, that was my contention: did it make enough to justify a sequel. I'm not sure that it did. I guess they could do another KS and see how much they get, but they'd better wait until folks are jonesing again. People are probably pretty satisfied with this kind of game right now given that we've seen a bunch come out: either new IP, or repackages of older games like BG and IWD.
Verno wrote on Jun 10, 2015, 13:42:
Where is this all leading? If PoE sold more copies than D:OS or Witcher 3, would that make it a better game? If it sells less is it suddenly terrible? Jerykk's points seem pretty clear to me and that's coming from someone who has argued with him him countless times in the past. Neither game was a mainstream success and PoEs sales being what they are shouldn't surprise anyone nor is it indicative of its quality (or lack thereof depending on your view). These games are a niche market now and POE is no exception. Perhaps if it was released at a different point or during a Steam sale it would've done better but that's in the past. The bigger question is did it make enough to do a sequel? If not then its unfortunate because I think it has a lot of promise and just needs refinement.
CJ_Parker wrote on Jun 10, 2015, 12:09:Jerykk wrote on Jun 10, 2015, 02:17:
Obsidian never advertised themselves as the makers of BG, which is easily the most well-known of the IE games and the series that received successful remasters across multiple platforms. Here's another fun fact: The Icewind Dale remaster has sold around 45k copies on Steam. Pretty popular, eh? All those mainstream gamers really embracing Obsidian's legendary historical status!
I'm not going to address all of the complete additional bullshit you posted on top of your already very impressive pile but just to illustrate how uninformed you are... here it is straight from the Project Enternity Kickstarter website under the introductory "Welcome to Project Eternity" headline. It's literally the first paragraph on the project:Obsidian Entertainment and our legendary game designers Chris Avellone, Tim Cain, and Josh Sawyer are excited to bring you a new role-playing game for the PC. Project Eternity (working title) pays homage to the great Infinity Engine games of years past: Baldur’s Gate, Icewind Dale, and Planescape: Torment.
Project Eternity aims to recapture the magic, imagination, depth, and nostalgia of classic RPG's that we enjoyed making - and playing. At Obsidian, we have the people responsible for many of those classic games and we want to bring those games back… and that’s why we’re here - we need your help to make it a reality!
^ so... yeah, Obsidian did not advertise themselves as the makers of BG or other Infinity engine games at all, right? Naaaaahhh. Not at all. Why would they?
Jerykk wrote on Jun 10, 2015, 12:42:
Your reading comprehension is lacking. "Pays homage" is not the same as "from the makers of." If you watch the Kickstarter video, they actually give themselves credit for a bunch of RPGs but BG is not among them.
I guess offering facts that undermine your argument makes me a troll?
^ so... yeah, Obsidian did not advertise themselves as the makers of BG or other Infinity engine games at all, right? Naaaaahhh. Not at all. Why would they?
It's also very amusing how you first started calling BS on SteamSpy and are now obviously using SteamSpy numbers to "prove" that IwD only sold 45K copies. Which is it? Is SteamSpy reliable only if it fits your agenda, Mr. Hypocrite?
I was taking you serious at first, but the last few replies you sound like an angry Pillars troll who can't accept that a nobody like Larian beatdown your favorite developer on every front.
Jerykk wrote on Jun 10, 2015, 02:17:
Obsidian never advertised themselves as the makers of BG, which is easily the most well-known of the IE games and the series that received successful remasters across multiple platforms. Here's another fun fact: The Icewind Dale remaster has sold around 45k copies on Steam. Pretty popular, eh? All those mainstream gamers really embracing Obsidian's legendary historical status!
Obsidian Entertainment and our legendary game designers Chris Avellone, Tim Cain, and Josh Sawyer are excited to bring you a new role-playing game for the PC. Project Eternity (working title) pays homage to the great Infinity Engine games of years past: Baldur’s Gate, Icewind Dale, and Planescape: Torment.
Project Eternity aims to recapture the magic, imagination, depth, and nostalgia of classic RPG's that we enjoyed making - and playing. At Obsidian, we have the people responsible for many of those classic games and we want to bring those games back… and that’s why we’re here - we need your help to make it a reality!
Jerykk wrote on Jun 10, 2015, 00:42:
So, all things considered, PoE has done pretty well. Had it launched during a Steam sale, it would likely have numbers pretty close to Divinity's.
jdreyer wrote on Jun 9, 2015, 15:49:jacobvandy wrote on Jun 9, 2015, 15:28:
Breaking even is plenty good enough when you're able to spend a few years making a living off of a passion project. That's a dream situation for anyone even remotely interested in their job as a game developer.
Still, I'm thinking they made a good chunk of profit. What makes you think they spent twice as much as they crowdfunded? Sorry, no, three times as much... $4.1 mil raised beforehand, plus more than $9 mil in sales, and you're saying they only broke even?
Because more than 100 people work at Obsidian, and you're burning through $1M per month easily with that many people. In the past 4 years they've made Pillars, Stick of Truth, and helped with Wasteland. If Pillars generated $12-13M in revenue for Obsidian between KS and post release sales, that's enough to fund them for a single year only. Stick of Truth sold well (1M+), but a lot of that revenue was sucked up by Ubi and Comedy Central. The old saw in game development is that you're only one bad release away from bankruptcy, so I wouldn't be surprised if they're putting all their hopes on Armored Warfare. I doubt they'd be going the free to play microtransaction action game route if their traditional revenue model was doing it for them.
Also, with no RPGs in the pipe, it's no surprise Chris is leaving. There's nothing for him to do on Armored Warfare.
harlock wrote on Jun 10, 2015, 09:09:Axis wrote on Jun 10, 2015, 08:51:
I was taking you serious at first, but the last few replies you sound like an angry Pillars troll who can't accept that a nobody like Larian beatdown your favorite developer on every front.
CJ is 100% correct. So am I.
i bet you were the kind of kid who went around crying "my dad can beat up your dad!"
keep it up guys, your antics goes great with coffee
Axis wrote on Jun 10, 2015, 08:51:
I was taking you serious at first, but the last few replies you sound like an angry Pillars troll who can't accept that a nobody like Larian beatdown your favorite developer on every front.
CJ is 100% correct. So am I.
Jerykk wrote on Jun 10, 2015, 02:17:Again: You started with the "mainstream appeal" so you'd have to defend your use of it and not I.
I already explained my use of "mainstream appeal." I used it the same way anyone would use the term "mainstream." Apparently you're the one exception?
In any case, no, there's not a very high chance of mainstream (and by mainstream, I mean average/casual/non-hardcore) gamers having heard of BG, ID or PST. Go to E3 and take a survey of how many people have played or even heard of PST (the game Avellone is most known for). I'd love to see the results.
The Obsidian brand holds value to people who loved FO1&2, ID and PST. To anyone else, it is meaningless.So if a KS RPG is advertised as "from the makers of BG, IwD and PST", games which have sold in the millions of copies and that have a legendary historical reputation PLUS that have pretty popular remakes that were made available across a wide range of platforms including Steam, GOG, and even mobile crap like iOS, come on... no contest on ALL levels compared to the rather unknown dudes from Belgium with their poorly handled (by their publishers) international releases Divine Divinity or the Dragon Knight Saga.
Obsidian never advertised themselves as the makers of BG, which is easily the most well-known of the IE games and the series that received successful remasters across multiple platforms. Here's another fun fact: The Icewind Dale remaster has sold around 45k copies on Steam. Pretty popular, eh? All those mainstream gamers really embracing Obsidian's legendary historical status!
Again: You started with the "mainstream appeal" so you'd have to defend your use of it and not I.
So if a KS RPG is advertised as "from the makers of BG, IwD and PST", games which have sold in the millions of copies and that have a legendary historical reputation PLUS that have pretty popular remakes that were made available across a wide range of platforms including Steam, GOG, and even mobile crap like iOS, come on... no contest on ALL levels compared to the rather unknown dudes from Belgium with their poorly handled (by their publishers) international releases Divine Divinity or the Dragon Knight Saga.