We're going to remove the payment feature from the Skyrim workshop. For anyone who spent money on a mod, we'll be refunding you the complete amount. We talked to the team at Bethesda and they agree.
We've done this because it's clear we didn't understand exactly what we were doing. We've been shipping many features over the years aimed at allowing community creators to receive a share of the rewards, and in the past, they've been received well. It's obvious now that this case is different.
To help you understand why we thought this was a good idea, our main goals were to allow mod makers the opportunity to work on their mods full time if they wanted to, and to encourage developers to provide better support to their mod communities. We thought this would result in better mods for everyone, both free & paid. We wanted more great mods becoming great products, like Dota, Counter-strike, DayZ, and Killing Floor, and we wanted that to happen organically for any mod maker who wanted to take a shot at it.
But we underestimated the differences between our previously successful revenue sharing models, and the addition of paid mods to Skyrim's workshop. We understand our own game's communities pretty well, but stepping into an established, years old modding community in Skyrim was probably not the right place to start iterating. We think this made us miss the mark pretty badly, even though we believe there's a useful feature somewhere here.
Now that you've backed a dump truck of feedback onto our inboxes, we'll be chewing through that, but if you have any further thoughts let us know.
Silicon Avatar wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 10:06:InBlack wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 08:29:Slick wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 08:24:OpticNerve wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 07:58:Slick wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 07:36:Wow, if you think that's true, then you might be in the wrong business/hobby. If you draw for a company or commission, then yes it is a job.
creating art isn't a job?
You create art to improve yourself and your skills. It's not a job. It's an investment.
I don't even know where to begin... there are no artisans in the world apparently. there are only hobbiests who create "true" art, anyone receiving a paycheque are just hucksters i suppose?. And i was the one being accused of living in a dystopia...
No true artist creates art just to get paid, the lucky ones get to sell some of it. The really lucky ones can live from their art. The very vast majority eats crud. Most do it for reasons other than money, and those that do it just for the money are more often than not untalanted hacks. Ask any artist if you dont believe me.
I have "asked an artist" and you are full of it. Professional artists want to be paid. It can take a hundred hours to make a picture. You think pro artists don't want a return on that time? Wha??
ventry wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 20:30:Slick wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 06:41:
congrats PC gamers! you really SHOWED THE MAN with this one. way to fuck over the little guy!
If the "little guy" wants to make money then mods is the wrong way to do it.
Keep sucking those sour grapes.
Slick wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 06:41:
congrats PC gamers! you really SHOWED THE MAN with this one. way to fuck over the little guy!
Slick wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 08:24:OpticNerve wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 07:58:Slick wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 07:36:Wow, if you think that's true, then you might be in the wrong business/hobby. If you draw for a company or commission, then yes it is a job.
creating art isn't a job?
You create art to improve yourself and your skills. It's not a job. It's an investment.
I don't even know where to begin... there are no artisans in the world apparently. there are only hobbiests who create "true" art, anyone receiving a paycheque are just hucksters i suppose?. And i was the one being accused of living in a dystopia...
InBlack wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 08:10:
@Harlock: Maybe because the status-quo was working out pretty good for all parties concerned?
Creston wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 15:03:Drayth wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 13:10:
They were going to leave the free one up. The new one was to have only new functions added (I think it was just mod menu stuff, mainly something to do with crafting), no changes or improvements over the existing functions of the free one.
I'd have been fine with that.
I'd also be fine if the SkyUI guys make a mod for the next Beth game (FO4;ES6 whatever) and charge for it from the get-go. SkyUI is definitely worth 5 or 10 bucks to me.
But it really needs to be from the get-go, not get switched over after four years.
Drayth wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 13:10:
They were going to leave the free one up. The new one was to have only new functions added (I think it was just mod menu stuff, mainly something to do with crafting), no changes or improvements over the existing functions of the free one.
Quboid wrote on Apr 27, 2015, 21:16:nin wrote on Apr 27, 2015, 21:07:We've done this because it's clear we didn't understand exactly what we were doing.
That's putting it mildly.
Glad they reversed. I have no issue with folks making quality work getting paid, but as it was implemented, it just seemed ripe for abuse. And yeah, it didn't seem very well thought out.
Maybe next time (shudder) how about just an optional donation button.
Well put.
If they do try paid mods again (and I've little doubt that they will) they should launch it with a new title. I can see that they wouldn't want the flak to affect the game's sales, and there would still be plenty of unhappiness, but pulling the rug from under existing players' feet was a dreadful idea.
OpticNerve wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 03:45:
I am curious though. There was a big backlash against certain popular modders who "sold out" and made their Skyrim mods paid only and/or took down their free version from Nexus. One mod that pops into mind is SkyUI. I wonder if this'll affect the community respect and popularity of his mod going forward after this fiasco.
InBlack wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 08:29:Slick wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 08:24:OpticNerve wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 07:58:Slick wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 07:36:Wow, if you think that's true, then you might be in the wrong business/hobby. If you draw for a company or commission, then yes it is a job.
creating art isn't a job?
You create art to improve yourself and your skills. It's not a job. It's an investment.
I don't even know where to begin... there are no artisans in the world apparently. there are only hobbiests who create "true" art, anyone receiving a paycheque are just hucksters i suppose?. And i was the one being accused of living in a dystopia...
No true artist creates art just to get paid, the lucky ones get to sell some of it. The really lucky ones can live from their art. The very vast majority eats crud. Most do it for reasons other than money, and those that do it just for the money are more often than not untalanted hacks. Ask any artist if you dont believe me.
InBlack wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 08:38:
You are using a false analogy yet again. Im talking about modding. Or if you really want to generalise, working on someone else's foundation with their permission. The whole concept of modding is built on this premise. Sort of like open-source. Once you close that shit down, and bring money into the game, bye bye modding. How many games today support mods compared to the games of the 90's? Why do you think that is? IP control. You are naive if you dont believe that is exactly what is going to happen to a rich modding community like Skyrim's once money is involved. Sure the 'big' popular mods will survive, they will even probably be bigger and better. But the community as a whole will wither away, and innovation will be limited by what you can sell and to whom.
Actually money is how the community steers work. (c) Gabe.
InBlack wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 08:54:Slick wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 08:48:
so where's the problem again?
I edited my previous post so you probably didnt catch it. IP control is the problem. People won't be able to build on mods if they become pay-to-play. The mod creators sure as hell wont let others feed off their success free of charge. Do you get what Im saying? You will close off the biggest source of innovation in the modding scene, the true reason why modding is such a huge success, the ability to take someone else's mod and improve upon it.