NKD wrote on Nov 6, 2014, 20:23:beremot wrote on Nov 6, 2014, 19:50:
Are Wu, etc, really going on twitter and saying "I'm getting all these rape and death threats, and that is EXACTLY the same as if I were actually being raped and murdered?"
No that's not what she is saying. And I don't believe that there's anything fundamentally wrong with saying "These two things are both related to misogyny." because that's absolutely true. But that's not what was said.
Here's the link to the Tweet.Police investigating 4chan link to murdered woman. Gamergate, tell me again how my life isn't in danger
She suggests that this case lends credibility to the online threats she received. Even though there were no online threats that we know of, the man was the woman's live-in boyfriend, and had a documented history of domestic violence and threats. The dynamics of this problem are different, so the solution and the conversation must also be different. History and statistics show us that domestic violence is a clear and present danger for many women. Being murdered by an anonymous Twitter user is not. There simply isn't a history of people making good on these threats. It's everyone's right to have an irrational fear not backed up by the numbers. You can't help being afraid of whatever you're afraid of. You can't shut it off.
But when you start voicing that fear publicly, don't be surprised when people accuse you of fear-mongering and generalization.
I have no objection to her stating that these things are related vis-a-vis misogyny, which they are. But the timing and context of her tweet are in poor taste and make it look like she's making it about herself and somehow comparing her situation to the situation of an actual abuse victim who probably lived every day in fear of a known credible threat who shared her home.
If she had simply linked to the story and said "This is scary shit!" or something, the entire tone of her tweet would have been different. But no, she had to name drop Gamergate, which immediately colors things differently.
beremot wrote on Nov 6, 2014, 19:50:
Are Wu, etc, really going on twitter and saying "I'm getting all these rape and death threats, and that is EXACTLY the same as if I were actually being raped and murdered?"
Police investigating 4chan link to murdered woman. Gamergate, tell me again how my life isn't in danger
Beamer wrote on Nov 6, 2014, 14:39:Pigeon wrote on Nov 6, 2014, 13:10:Beamer wrote on Nov 6, 2014, 11:46:Pigeon wrote on Nov 6, 2014, 11:30:Beamer wrote on Nov 6, 2014, 11:00:NKD wrote on Nov 6, 2014, 09:48:
That murderer guy turned himself in to police rather than suicide-by-cop as he originally planned, so he is in custody now. Though the "4chan link" stuff is overstating it a bit. 4chan is where the dude posted his sick pictures after the fact. As far as anyone can tell, there was no other involvement by anyone on 4chan.
The best part was when ol' Brianna Wu decided to go on Twitter and link this to Gamergate or hold it up as an example of how serious online threats are. Except there were no online threats. This guy did his threatening in the real world, had a history of domestic violence and threats against law enforcement, and killed his girlfriend who he lived with, not some random woman on the Internet.
Sick of the people in this world who do that kind of shit. Comparing your trivial online threats to the very serious problem of domestic violence, god damn. Shameless.
Yup.
Had he killed someone over an argument on 4chan, fine, but he killed someone then bragged on the most convenient place on the internet. The steps to how he killed and ended up on 4chan aren't the same as anything else being discussed.
The truth never stopped anyone from twisting a tragedy to meet their own agenda.
No offense, but you're the one doing that.
Briana, Zoe and Anita have had numerous 4chan threads discussing ways they should die. Don't you think this hits a little close to home for then? It doesn't make them right, but I'm certain they're honest in being concerned that a message board obsessed with killing them has a thread bragging about killing a woman.
But I won't let understanding where people come from stop your personal agenda.
What's my agenda? [/quote
Diminishing death threats, apparently.
My original point was that people will use tragedy to prove a point regardless of the facts involved. This was a case of domestic violence, it wasn't random, and it wasn't from some anonymous stranger on the internet. Perhaps there's a lesson in there about misogyny, I don't know if the guys motivations were ever stated or if he was just completely bat-shit insane and did it just because.
It's not that I don't understand where she's coming from, but as someone who has been a public face of the anti-GG movement (her not me), I think it's a poor comparison for her to have made. This was a domestic abuse situation, and the danger from someone who you know and/or live with threatening you is a lot higher and more immediate than some asshole on the internet. I'm not trying to diminish the terribleness of internet death threats, but I think it's disingenuous to artificially inflate the threat by pointing to a domestic abuse case and saying 'SEE I WAS RIGHT'. That kind of rhetoric is great for your supporters, but it drives away people who realize it wasn't a case of online harassment, and it further cuts-off meaningful dialogue with your detractors, because it is seen at an attempt to demonize them.
From reading the article what I did see from the supposed GG people was disbelief, they thought it was a hoax, and horror/disgust at the act and sympathy for the victims. I've not looked at 4 chan or reddit so I don't know if that's an accurate representation of the general population or not.
What particularly bothers me is I agree with her on a lot of basic points. Online threats aren't funny or harmless, women tend to get targeted online for harassment because of their gender, and there's a good deal of misogyny in games (though with some caveats on that last one).I think what he takes exception to, and he can correct me if I'm wrong, is the same thing I take exception to. That is, comparing bullshit anonymous online trolling to the very real threat of domestic violence.
That's probably a way better explanation than all my rambling.
Task wrote on Nov 6, 2014, 15:49:
With the threats of those other people (non related to that gruesome murder), are they talking out of their ass trying to sound tought with threats or are they serious is the question.
There is a huge line an individual has step going from bullying to straight up pre-meditated murder. That murder that is listed is someone that is already crazed and obviously snapped.
beremot wrote on Nov 6, 2014, 14:30:Pigeon wrote on Nov 6, 2014, 11:30:
The truth never stopped anyone from twisting a tragedy to meet their own agenda.
That agenda would be ... what? Tying misogyny online to misogyny in the real world? Tying misogyny online to the way some men abuse women in the real world? Like there could be no actual connection between those things?
Pigeon wrote on Nov 6, 2014, 13:10:Beamer wrote on Nov 6, 2014, 11:46:Pigeon wrote on Nov 6, 2014, 11:30:Beamer wrote on Nov 6, 2014, 11:00:NKD wrote on Nov 6, 2014, 09:48:
That murderer guy turned himself in to police rather than suicide-by-cop as he originally planned, so he is in custody now. Though the "4chan link" stuff is overstating it a bit. 4chan is where the dude posted his sick pictures after the fact. As far as anyone can tell, there was no other involvement by anyone on 4chan.
The best part was when ol' Brianna Wu decided to go on Twitter and link this to Gamergate or hold it up as an example of how serious online threats are. Except there were no online threats. This guy did his threatening in the real world, had a history of domestic violence and threats against law enforcement, and killed his girlfriend who he lived with, not some random woman on the Internet.
Sick of the people in this world who do that kind of shit. Comparing your trivial online threats to the very serious problem of domestic violence, god damn. Shameless.
Yup.
Had he killed someone over an argument on 4chan, fine, but he killed someone then bragged on the most convenient place on the internet. The steps to how he killed and ended up on 4chan aren't the same as anything else being discussed.
The truth never stopped anyone from twisting a tragedy to meet their own agenda.
No offense, but you're the one doing that.
Briana, Zoe and Anita have had numerous 4chan threads discussing ways they should die. Don't you think this hits a little close to home for then? It doesn't make them right, but I'm certain they're honest in being concerned that a message board obsessed with killing them has a thread bragging about killing a woman.
But I won't let understanding where people come from stop your personal agenda.
What's my agenda? [/quote
Diminishing death threats, apparently.-------------
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http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
Pigeon wrote on Nov 6, 2014, 11:30:
The truth never stopped anyone from twisting a tragedy to meet their own agenda.
“I keep pursuing it and I keep being stuck,” he said. “It’s to the point where I’m kind of at a loss as to what else I can do other than continue down the same path. But my state senator has gotten donations from Time Warner… Chuck Schumer is one of my [US] senators. His brother works for Time Warner. Not to say that they would be overwhelmed by a donation that they received from a corporation, but I just don’t see my voice as being as loud as theirs.”
Beamer wrote on Nov 6, 2014, 11:46:Pigeon wrote on Nov 6, 2014, 11:30:Beamer wrote on Nov 6, 2014, 11:00:NKD wrote on Nov 6, 2014, 09:48:
That murderer guy turned himself in to police rather than suicide-by-cop as he originally planned, so he is in custody now. Though the "4chan link" stuff is overstating it a bit. 4chan is where the dude posted his sick pictures after the fact. As far as anyone can tell, there was no other involvement by anyone on 4chan.
The best part was when ol' Brianna Wu decided to go on Twitter and link this to Gamergate or hold it up as an example of how serious online threats are. Except there were no online threats. This guy did his threatening in the real world, had a history of domestic violence and threats against law enforcement, and killed his girlfriend who he lived with, not some random woman on the Internet.
Sick of the people in this world who do that kind of shit. Comparing your trivial online threats to the very serious problem of domestic violence, god damn. Shameless.
Yup.
Had he killed someone over an argument on 4chan, fine, but he killed someone then bragged on the most convenient place on the internet. The steps to how he killed and ended up on 4chan aren't the same as anything else being discussed.
The truth never stopped anyone from twisting a tragedy to meet their own agenda.
No offense, but you're the one doing that.
Briana, Zoe and Anita have had numerous 4chan threads discussing ways they should die. Don't you think this hits a little close to home for then? It doesn't make them right, but I'm certain they're honest in being concerned that a message board obsessed with killing them has a thread bragging about killing a woman.
But I won't let understanding where people come from stop your personal agenda.
Pigeon wrote on Nov 6, 2014, 11:30:Beamer wrote on Nov 6, 2014, 11:00:NKD wrote on Nov 6, 2014, 09:48:
That murderer guy turned himself in to police rather than suicide-by-cop as he originally planned, so he is in custody now. Though the "4chan link" stuff is overstating it a bit. 4chan is where the dude posted his sick pictures after the fact. As far as anyone can tell, there was no other involvement by anyone on 4chan.
The best part was when ol' Brianna Wu decided to go on Twitter and link this to Gamergate or hold it up as an example of how serious online threats are. Except there were no online threats. This guy did his threatening in the real world, had a history of domestic violence and threats against law enforcement, and killed his girlfriend who he lived with, not some random woman on the Internet.
Sick of the people in this world who do that kind of shit. Comparing your trivial online threats to the very serious problem of domestic violence, god damn. Shameless.
Yup.
Had he killed someone over an argument on 4chan, fine, but he killed someone then bragged on the most convenient place on the internet. The steps to how he killed and ended up on 4chan aren't the same as anything else being discussed.
The truth never stopped anyone from twisting a tragedy to meet their own agenda.
Beamer wrote on Nov 6, 2014, 11:00:NKD wrote on Nov 6, 2014, 09:48:
That murderer guy turned himself in to police rather than suicide-by-cop as he originally planned, so he is in custody now. Though the "4chan link" stuff is overstating it a bit. 4chan is where the dude posted his sick pictures after the fact. As far as anyone can tell, there was no other involvement by anyone on 4chan.
The best part was when ol' Brianna Wu decided to go on Twitter and link this to Gamergate or hold it up as an example of how serious online threats are. Except there were no online threats. This guy did his threatening in the real world, had a history of domestic violence and threats against law enforcement, and killed his girlfriend who he lived with, not some random woman on the Internet.
Sick of the people in this world who do that kind of shit. Comparing your trivial online threats to the very serious problem of domestic violence, god damn. Shameless.
Yup.
Had he killed someone over an argument on 4chan, fine, but he killed someone then bragged on the most convenient place on the internet. The steps to how he killed and ended up on 4chan aren't the same as anything else being discussed.
NKD wrote on Nov 6, 2014, 09:48:
That murderer guy turned himself in to police rather than suicide-by-cop as he originally planned, so he is in custody now. Though the "4chan link" stuff is overstating it a bit. 4chan is where the dude posted his sick pictures after the fact. As far as anyone can tell, there was no other involvement by anyone on 4chan.
The best part was when ol' Brianna Wu decided to go on Twitter and link this to Gamergate or hold it up as an example of how serious online threats are. Except there were no online threats. This guy did his threatening in the real world, had a history of domestic violence and threats against law enforcement, and killed his girlfriend who he lived with, not some random woman on the Internet.
Sick of the people in this world who do that kind of shit. Comparing your trivial online threats to the very serious problem of domestic violence, god damn. Shameless.