Torment: Tides of Numenera Gameplay Video

The newly launched Torment: Tides of Numenera website now offers a new video with a first look at inXile's upcoming throwback RPG. Here's the description:
The video contains 3 minutes of pre-alpha footage from Torment: Tides of Numenera, which is currently wrapping up preproduction as inXile’s Wasteland 2 launches September 19, 2014. A cross-section of Torment gameplay, this first-glimpse shows an example of the narrative and choice-based focus of the upcoming cRPG.

Thanks to its more than 80,000 backers, Torment: Tides of Numenera continues the thematic legacy of the critically acclaimed Planescape: Torment. Set in Monte Cook's tabletop role-playing world, Numenera, the newest Torment asks: What does one life matter? With this #1 most funded Kickstarter video game, inXile is creating a rich RPG experience that explores deep, personal themes.

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45.
 
Re: Torment: Tides of Numenera Gameplay Video
Sep 19, 2014, 15:24
Sho
 
45.
Re: Torment: Tides of Numenera Gameplay Video Sep 19, 2014, 15:24
Sep 19, 2014, 15:24
 Sho
 
jdreyer wrote on Sep 19, 2014, 13:42:
@Sho. Let's have this conversation again when the game is done.

Yah, let's wait and see :).

About to fire up Wasteland 2 btw!
44.
 
Re: Torment: Tides of Numenera Gameplay Video
Sep 19, 2014, 13:42
44.
Re: Torment: Tides of Numenera Gameplay Video Sep 19, 2014, 13:42
Sep 19, 2014, 13:42
 
@Sho. Let's have this conversation again when the game is done. I noticed that the graphics of Divine Divinity improved immensely over the last 6 months of its development. While some of the things you point out, like the lack of ambient occlusion, I agree with, many of the others I don't agree or don't see. I honestly doubt most people are even going to notice the things you point out. Your choice of occupation give you the technical knowledge that most people lack.

I do appreciate the rather technical discussion of graphics tho.
If Russia stops fighting, the war ends. If Ukraine stops fighting, Ukraine ends. Slava Ukraini!
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43.
 
Re: Torment: Tides of Numenera Gameplay Video
Sep 19, 2014, 00:51
Sho
 
43.
Re: Torment: Tides of Numenera Gameplay Video Sep 19, 2014, 00:51
Sep 19, 2014, 00:51
 Sho
 
Acleacius wrote on Sep 19, 2014, 00:33:
I really don't see the comparison, of course PST looks aesthetically better it's hand painted background, not a free 3D world environment. Hopefully you will be able to enjoy the game for want it is, not what you imagine it should be based on some impossible criteria.

I know I'll enjoy it, not only for the amazing achievement of it's development but also as an incredible game. Mwahaha

The only time I referenced PST directly was in a paragraph about TTON, and both use pre-rendered backgrounds (though TTON has a lot of dynamic lighting and shading going on PST didn't). Wasteland 2 only entered the discussion because it forms inXile's track record and the TTON vid has some similar aesthetics and quality control problems on display. I also felt Wasteland 2 is interesting with regard to how the visuals in an inXile production evolved throughout development, because it's the only example of their project management style we have to draw from.

Not ruling out enjoying W2, nope. Didn't have much time with the beta so I have no final opinion on the game yet.
42.
 
Re: Torment: Tides of Numenera Gameplay Video
Sep 19, 2014, 00:33
42.
Re: Torment: Tides of Numenera Gameplay Video Sep 19, 2014, 00:33
Sep 19, 2014, 00:33
 
I really don't see the comparison, of course PST looks aesthetically better it's hand painted background, not a free 3D world environment. Hopefully you will be able to enjoy the game for want it is, not what you imagine it should be based on some impossible criteria.

I know I'll enjoy it, not only for the amazing achievement of it's development but also as an incredible game. Mwahaha
Scorpio Slasher: ... What about you boy, what do hate?
Marcus: ... Bullies. Tiny d*ck egotists who hurt people for no reason, make people lock their doors at night. People who make general existence worse, people like you.
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41.
 
Re: Torment: Tides of Numenera Gameplay Video
Sep 19, 2014, 00:06
Sho
 
41.
Re: Torment: Tides of Numenera Gameplay Video Sep 19, 2014, 00:06
Sep 19, 2014, 00:06
 Sho
 
Acleacius wrote on Sep 18, 2014, 23:43:
Cool, can you name a single 3D game made for $4 million, which has better graphics?

Make sure to watch that graphics vs. aesthetics video I linked earlier. I haven't helped the issue much by lazily writing graphics a lot, sorry. After watching it I'm sure you can think of many examples of cheaper 3D games with higher quality aesthetics yourself; plenty of indies of recent years have a more cohesive look and visual polish than Wasteland 2. Say, Dear Esther.

The diff between the to games is of course that Wasteland 2 has a much bigger scope and needs many more assets than Dear Esther. So you can't expect the same level of fidelity, no. But that's not tightly coupled to craftsmanship. What's wrong with Wasteland 2 isn't lack of fidelity, it's that it's (imho ...) badly put together at the level of fidelity it's at.

The connection to budget there is maybe lack of pre-production time to iterate and nail down a look and an asset pipeline that consistently achieves implementing it. The only way to save some time there is a staff and especially an art director with experience, and good people are of course again expensive.

Maybe you're right and it can't easily be done for the money, dunno. You just hope you get lucky and the right people are in the right place at the right time to make the right decisions. inXile just doesn't seem that lucky, at least on visuals.
40.
 
Re: Torment: Tides of Numenera Gameplay Video
Sep 18, 2014, 23:43
40.
Re: Torment: Tides of Numenera Gameplay Video Sep 18, 2014, 23:43
Sep 18, 2014, 23:43
 
Sho wrote on Sep 18, 2014, 23:39:
Acleacius wrote on Sep 18, 2014, 22:37:
Sho you do realize your comparing PST a setview range graphics, which enable the drawing of maps, with much greater detail. Verses W2 which is completely different in that it's 3D with variable camera view ranges and angles..right?

I'm a software engineer with a computer graphics background. I haven't done any game dev (beyond an attempt at reimplementing Tomb Raider once, which got as far as loading and rendering the environments - thanks to others reverse engineering and documenting the map format), but I'm pretty clear on the different approaches to putting things on screen, aye.

Acleacius wrote on Sep 18, 2014, 22:37:
If you realize this, I'm not sure why your going into such detail comparing two completely different graphic renderings.

Because I feel the problems I'm pointing out are systemic and examples of a general weakness in inXile's output. It's correct the different approaches pose different challenges, but they're not hitting attainable quality targets in either for me, aesthetically and craft-wise.

As for why I'm invested in talking about it ... well I am invested, with money, in both games ;P.
Cool, can you name a single 3D game made for $4 million, which has better graphics?
Scorpio Slasher: ... What about you boy, what do hate?
Marcus: ... Bullies. Tiny d*ck egotists who hurt people for no reason, make people lock their doors at night. People who make general existence worse, people like you.
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39.
 
Re: Torment: Tides of Numenera Gameplay Video
Sep 18, 2014, 23:39
Sho
 
39.
Re: Torment: Tides of Numenera Gameplay Video Sep 18, 2014, 23:39
Sep 18, 2014, 23:39
 Sho
 
Acleacius wrote on Sep 18, 2014, 22:37:
Sho you do realize your comparing PST a setview range graphics, which enable the drawing of maps, with much greater detail. Verses W2 which is completely different in that it's 3D with variable camera view ranges and angles..right?

I'm a software engineer with a decent computer graphics background. I haven't done any game dev (beyond an attempt at reimplementing Tomb Raider once, which got as far as loading and rendering the environments - thanks to others reverse engineering and documenting the map format), but I'm pretty clear on the different approaches to putting things on screen, aye.

Acleacius wrote on Sep 18, 2014, 22:37:
If you realize this, I'm not sure why your going into such detail comparing two completely different graphic renderings.

Because I feel the problems I'm pointing out are systemic and examples of a general weakness in inXile's output. It's correct the different approaches pose different challenges, but they're not hitting attainable quality targets in either for me, aesthetically and craft-wise.

As for why I'm invested in talking about it ... well I am invested, with money, in both games ;P.
38.
 
Re: Torment: Tides of Numenera Gameplay Video
Sep 18, 2014, 22:37
38.
Re: Torment: Tides of Numenera Gameplay Video Sep 18, 2014, 22:37
Sep 18, 2014, 22:37
 
Sho you do realize your comparing PST a setview range graphics, which enable the drawing of maps, with much greater detail. Verses W2 which is completely different in that it's 3D with variable camera view ranges and angles..right?

If you realize this, I'm not sure why your going into such detail comparing two completely different graphic renderings.
Scorpio Slasher: ... What about you boy, what do hate?
Marcus: ... Bullies. Tiny d*ck egotists who hurt people for no reason, make people lock their doors at night. People who make general existence worse, people like you.
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37.
 
Re: Torment: Tides of Numenera Gameplay Video
Sep 18, 2014, 20:54
Sho
 
37.
Re: Torment: Tides of Numenera Gameplay Video Sep 18, 2014, 20:54
Sep 18, 2014, 20:54
 Sho
 
jdreyer wrote on Sep 18, 2014, 20:21:
@ Sho.

1. I think it looks about as good as NWN2. Definitely better than 90s level BG or PS:T.

2. Although I'm not seeing everything that you are, I'm wondering what you're expecting for $4M?

3. What's a game that does this better? Diablo 3?

1. I actually think it looks worse than PS:T. This is a graphics vs. aesthetics thing. Of course TTON has more modern graphics, and because of the greater computational resources available now and the general advance in rendering tech, it gets a lot of nice things "for free" that PS:T couldn't do. There are some other improvements that are the result of a combination of advances in craft, tech and tooling - e.g. PS:T had to resort to tiled materials a lot more (especially on the floor layers). But the overall aesthetics are noticably worse right now, I think. Check out random PS:T screenshots, and notice how those scenes tend to feel richer and deeper because there's more contrast/layering between floors and walls, furniture and characters. There's also some really bad environment modelling in the TTON vid; the divding wall in the video still is a good example, doesn't feel organic or fit the concept of the location at all, that very polygonal opening looks awkward, and so on. I feel like PS:T did better on this stuff within the fidelity envelope possible at the time ...

I normally wouldn't be this concerned, but Wasteland 2 never came together visually so I'm not-so-sure anymore about "they'll work it out".

2. For $4M I'm expecting a lack of issues that can be addressed by hiring well and planning ahead, I guess. No, it's not easy, and it's the nature of the game that many projects never get so lucky. FWIW, note that they imported technology from Pillars of Eternity ... I'm sure Obsidian got some money for that, but I'm also sure that was effectively a cost-saving opportunity for inXile which makes their budget looks a little better.

3. Harebrained managed to pull off excellent graphics at a similar budget with Shadowrun Returns. I think there's a few reasons for that. The SSR level design system enforces much tighter constraints on the shape assets can take and how they can be put together - it's a fairly rigid tiles-and-decals system. That means there's less flexibility in putting environments together, but it also creates a clear set of parameters within which their artists could let loose and churn out high-quality stuff. They also did really, really well on visual consistency across all the assets - density, rendition style, coloration and so on. They figured out what they could afford and executed extremely well.

You can make an argument that having more ambitious locations like The Bloom is still a good thing even if you "fail" at them and require the gamer to make it look better in their heads, of course. And again: If the writing is at the level of PS:T, and they manage to pull off their gameplay ideas (which sound absolutely fantastic on paper), I'll love playing this even if nothing improves over this video. A story-driven RPG with infrequent but meaningful combat in an conceptually interesting setting? Hells yes. I'd still back this today.

This comment was edited on Sep 18, 2014, 21:13.
36.
 
Re: Torment: Tides of Numenera Gameplay Video
Sep 18, 2014, 20:21
36.
Re: Torment: Tides of Numenera Gameplay Video Sep 18, 2014, 20:21
Sep 18, 2014, 20:21
 
@ Sho.

1. I think it looks about as good as NWN2. Definitely better than 90s level BG or PS:T.

2. Although I'm not seeing everything that you are, I'm wondering what you're expecting for $4M?

3. What's a game that does this better? Diablo 3?
If Russia stops fighting, the war ends. If Ukraine stops fighting, Ukraine ends. Slava Ukraini!
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35.
 
Re: Torment: Tides of Numenera Gameplay Video
Sep 18, 2014, 19:08
35.
Re: Torment: Tides of Numenera Gameplay Video Sep 18, 2014, 19:08
Sep 18, 2014, 19:08
 
Thanks for the info Sho, hopefully it's something that will be addressed, by release if not soon after.
Scorpio Slasher: ... What about you boy, what do hate?
Marcus: ... Bullies. Tiny d*ck egotists who hurt people for no reason, make people lock their doors at night. People who make general existence worse, people like you.
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34.
 
Re: Torment: Tides of Numenera Gameplay Video
Sep 18, 2014, 19:02
Sho
 
34.
Re: Torment: Tides of Numenera Gameplay Video Sep 18, 2014, 19:02
Sep 18, 2014, 19:02
 Sho
 
Acleacius wrote on Sep 18, 2014, 17:08:
Several of you seem to be disappointed with Wasteland 2.

I think the Wasteland 2 graphics are terrible, and they actually got worse since the first video was shown. This has concerned me greatly vis-a-vis Torment (which I care a lot more about) for some time.

Note I don't mean "looks cheap" (re Creston), I mean "badly crafted". I think Wasteland 2 has a lot of problems with bad materials and bad ambience effects. It's a quality control thing, e.g. the density/resolution/noise level of the materials seems to vary a lot and gives the game a pieced-together appearance. The scene compositions also don't tend to do much in the way of foreground/background layering to create depth.

The Torment video has similar craftsmanship issues. There's lots of badly mapped and stretchy textures, a plasticky sheen on everything, next to no ambient occlusion (e.g. look at the well and the tree in the outdoor location), some noisy bump/normal maps, the resolution of the geometry is uneven (smooth in some places, polygon-y in others), ... one thing both games have in common is really, really and washed-out location lighting.

I'm just concerned at this point that inXile doesn't have a competent art staff. Or maybe they just lack a good art director who has a handle on the game's overall look and nails down some parameters for the asset pipeline.

This doesn't need to be a death blow to either game (for one, it might just get fixed in time). Quality writing and gameplay trumps all. I can get over bad graphics if my suspension of disbelief is guaranteed by those things. I can even find bad graphics charming. But it'd be nicer with good graphics ...

This comment was edited on Sep 18, 2014, 19:14.
33.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Sep 18, 2014, 18:56
33.
Re: Out of the Blue Sep 18, 2014, 18:56
Sep 18, 2014, 18:56
 
MoreLuckThanSkill wrote on Sep 18, 2014, 12:30:
Hrm, I am tempted to buy that. where is g2a based, and I assume you have used them a couple of times? Any weird issues with their website/service?

Apparently Wasteland 2's official release date is tomorrow, is the Steam price going to stay 60 dollars?

*EDIT* Apparently based out of Poland. Still, I assume you've used them before, any issues?

Yeah poland, I've never had a problem with them. Half a dozen games ordered as pre-orders via them and I've gotten them all just fine. I tossed in a pre-order for it last night and got the key two hours later. I've had more problems with GMG and keys being late or given out after release then I have with g2a.
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and it is always wrong."
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32.
 
Re: Torment: Tides of Numenera Gameplay Video
Sep 18, 2014, 18:51
32.
Re: Torment: Tides of Numenera Gameplay Video Sep 18, 2014, 18:51
Sep 18, 2014, 18:51
 
Acleacius wrote on Sep 18, 2014, 17:08:
Several of you seem to be disappointed with Wasteland 2.

I'm only disappointed that I'll have to wait until some unspecified time in the future for my signed collector's edition. Just as well, since I've just started Divinity Original Sin (I had waited for the new companions patch).
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31.
 
Re: Torment: Tides of Numenera Gameplay Video
Sep 18, 2014, 17:08
31.
Re: Torment: Tides of Numenera Gameplay Video Sep 18, 2014, 17:08
Sep 18, 2014, 17:08
 
Several of you seem to be disappointed with Wasteland 2. While, I'm blown away by Wasteland 2 and not sure what I missed. Just counting down the time till release, hopefully I can get started by Saturday. Woohoo
Scorpio Slasher: ... What about you boy, what do hate?
Marcus: ... Bullies. Tiny d*ck egotists who hurt people for no reason, make people lock their doors at night. People who make general existence worse, people like you.
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30.
 
Re: Torment: Tides of Numenera Gameplay Video
Sep 18, 2014, 15:41
30.
Re: Torment: Tides of Numenera Gameplay Video Sep 18, 2014, 15:41
Sep 18, 2014, 15:41
 
I'm very happy with the look and feel of this game... but it needs a transparency option for the text bubbles.
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29.
 
Re: Torment: Tides of Numenera Gameplay Video
Sep 18, 2014, 14:16
29.
Re: Torment: Tides of Numenera Gameplay Video Sep 18, 2014, 14:16
Sep 18, 2014, 14:16
 
Looked like one script was Russian, but has an excellent rep with Web of Trust
Scorpio Slasher: ... What about you boy, what do hate?
Marcus: ... Bullies. Tiny d*ck egotists who hurt people for no reason, make people lock their doors at night. People who make general existence worse, people like you.
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28.
 
Re: Torment: Tides of Numenera Gameplay Video
Sep 18, 2014, 12:30
28.
Re: Torment: Tides of Numenera Gameplay Video Sep 18, 2014, 12:30
Sep 18, 2014, 12:30
 
Mashiki Amiketo wrote on Sep 18, 2014, 05:12:
btw anyone who's looking for a copy of wasteland 2 g2a has it on for ~$30 USD right now.

Hrm, I am tempted to buy that. where is g2a based, and I assume you have used them a couple of times? Any weird issues with their website/service?

Apparently Wasteland 2's official release date is tomorrow, is the Steam price going to stay 60 dollars?

*EDIT* Apparently based out of Poland. Still, I assume you've used them before, any issues?

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27.
 
Re: Torment: Tides of Numenera Gameplay Video
Sep 18, 2014, 11:28
27.
Re: Torment: Tides of Numenera Gameplay Video Sep 18, 2014, 11:28
Sep 18, 2014, 11:28
 
Better than expected, and it looks like Mark Morgan is on track for another legendary soundtrack.

While I have no idea how this non-combat 'crisis' based exp system will work, especially on subsequent playthroughs, the visuals and character animation utilization in Unity is so far slightly superior to Pillars of Eternity. The UI is also superior.

26.
 
Re: Torment: Tides of Numenera Gameplay Video
Sep 18, 2014, 11:21
26.
Re: Torment: Tides of Numenera Gameplay Video Sep 18, 2014, 11:21
Sep 18, 2014, 11:21
 
Sho wrote on Sep 18, 2014, 11:00:
Creston wrote on Sep 18, 2014, 10:59:
How much money did you put in the Kickstarter?

$125. The "All Digital" pick, not much for trinkets to stack around the place.

Okay, up your pledge by ~ 5 million, and I'm sure they can be convinced to make better graphics.
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