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Op Ed

Ten Ton Hammer - The Cult of Star Citizen's Delays.
These delays come rapidly, over and over again, with every single update. It can range from a month to a six months to more of delays while features like towels are added to the hanger module. Even these delayed updates are just… micro-updates filled with some random content they’re rolling out and more stuff to sell in the store.

It’s so hilariously transparent that this isn’t about making a game anymore, but more so about exploiting a community of zealous fans who will spend as much money as humanly possible to make sure that they’re right. Chris Roberts tapped into a group of extremely proud loyal warriors who will fight the good fight for the game, and take any blow as a success - nay a victory.

The harsh reality is that Chris Roberts isn’t making vaporware, he’s making cash. He’s making a lot of it and the community is fully supporting his actions, like some kind of weird religion where paying to Chris Roberts absolves you of your sins buying lollypops in Candy Crush Saga.

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36 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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36. Re: Op Ed Sep 2, 2014, 09:09 InBlack
 
Well the camp is sort of divided over that but yes a lot of people agree with you and nin. This is however beside the point, the point being that Freelancer turned into the game we all played only after Microsoft stepped in, removed Chris Roberts and then instructed the developers at Digital Anvil to scale the game down and focus on finishing it. Even then it still took them nearly another two or three years to finish the game.  
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35. Re: Op Ed Sep 2, 2014, 08:51 Prez
 
InBlack wrote on Sep 2, 2014, 04:37:
nin wrote on Sep 1, 2014, 21:53:
[VG]Reagle wrote on Sep 1, 2014, 21:47:
Don't you guys dare talk bad about Chris Roberts. He would never make off with the loot? He has NEVER pumped up the crowds and released vaporware before RIGHT?

Oh wait FreeLancer ....shit he has done EXACTLY that before.

HAHAHA HOOKERS AND YAUGHTS I CALLED IT!!!




Freelancer was a great game, and reviews back that up.

You might want to rethink your strategy...



Sorry nin, I can't agree. Freelancer was 10% of the game it originally claimed to be. Microsoft pumped shitloads of money into that project, only to nearly cancel it. Finally they removed CR as lead on that project, and released an action/arcade game that didnt even support joysticks properly. It was a huge dissapointement after the likes of Starlancer or Freespace2.

I thought Freelancer was great as well.
 
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34. Re: Op Ed Sep 2, 2014, 05:36 jdreyer
 
Slick wrote on Sep 2, 2014, 00:50:
2) making your $35 entry fee look like chump change, making you a second-class (third-class?) citizen.

Maybe I'm not a Star Citizen anymore. Maybe I'm an Asstroid Citizen.
 
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"Microsoft is the absent minded parent of PC gaming" - Verno
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33. Re: Op Ed Sep 2, 2014, 05:12 headshot
 
world of warcraft was in development for 4-5 years. it inarguably changed the acceptance of (mmo)(rpg)s and the way they would be played.

star citizen was officially funded nearly two years from now. all the time during production, blizzard didn't let people partake in the design and/or testing process, let alone speak directly to the masses or taking suggestions. or releasing early clients for that matter.

more than a decade ago games would just pop up and be there. today we witness the whole process of building those games, and we act nervous when the just backed project isn't available in the promised timeframe. so far i think that we should lower our expectations, as we didn't even knew about a game being made a few years ago. and we should let go of the constant checking if the game is in one's individual state and bash devs and fans alike when they find it isn't.

slow down, life is to be savoured!
 
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32. Re: Op Ed Sep 2, 2014, 04:37 InBlack
 
nin wrote on Sep 1, 2014, 21:53:
[VG]Reagle wrote on Sep 1, 2014, 21:47:
Don't you guys dare talk bad about Chris Roberts. He would never make off with the loot? He has NEVER pumped up the crowds and released vaporware before RIGHT?

Oh wait FreeLancer ....shit he has done EXACTLY that before.

HAHAHA HOOKERS AND YAUGHTS I CALLED IT!!!


Freelancer was a great game, and reviews back that up.

You might want to rethink your strategy...



Sorry nin, I can't agree. Freelancer was 10% of the game it originally claimed to be. Microsoft pumped shitloads of money into that project, only to nearly cancel it. Finally they removed CR as lead on that project, and released an action/arcade game that didnt even support joysticks properly. It was a huge dissapointement after the likes of Starlancer or Freespace2.
 
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31. Re: Op Ed Sep 2, 2014, 00:50 Slick
 
jdreyer wrote on Sep 1, 2014, 21:40:
Slick wrote on Sep 1, 2014, 21:15:
oh my bad, i didn't realize they recently added a $325 ship/package for sale.

325 fucking dollars for a game which is nowhere near finished yet?

325 bucks and you barely have any game to play with your shiny new ship anyways.

pay2win fail.

I paid $35 or so during the kickstarter. I could see paying $100 for some goodies or something. I really don't understand anyone who pays much more than that. I guess those people are funding it for the rest of us.

$35 seems reasonable.

I should hope that the game is well past fully funded already, as it stands this is shaping up to have half the budget of a GTA game, one of the notoriously most expensive projects in the industry. At this point $325 ships are:

1) padding their wallets

2) making your $35 entry fee look like chump change, making you a second-class (third-class?) citizen.

i see it as buying a lvl 80 WoW toon before WoW has even left pre-alpha. Also instead of buying it through eBay or other grey markets, the developers themselves are the ones peddling.
 
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30. Re: Op Ed Sep 1, 2014, 23:47 Flatline
 
jacobvandy wrote on Sep 1, 2014, 23:35:
Chris Roberts did not finish Freelancer... From Wikipedia:

In 1997, Chris Roberts began work on a vision he had since he first conceived Wing Commander. He wanted to realize a virtual galaxy, whose systems execute their own programs regardless of the players' presence; cities would be bustling with transports and each world's weather changes on its own time. Commodity prices in each star system would fluctuate, according to the activities of the computer controlled traders, who import and export goods. Roberts envisioned thousands of players simultaneously interacting with and influencing this world through a unique and intuitive user interface never seen before in other games. Each player could pursue a quest set up for their character, and join other players to attempt other missions together without needing to exit the game and start a new mode of play. Artificial intelligence would fly the players' spacecraft, letting them concentrate on combat or other tasks. Roberts intended the cutscenes and gameplay visuals to be of equal quality so players would be unable to distinguish between the two.[35][36]

Sound familiar?

Two years later, the project was officially announced as Freelancer at GameStock, an annual showcase to the mass media of Microsoft's games.[37] The media covered the event, focusing on the features promised for this game. There were concerns about the state of the graphics and uncertainties over the promise of a dynamic economy, but gaming site GameSpot gave Roberts and his company, Digital Anvil, the benefit of their doubts.[38] Initially in 1999, Roberts announced the game would be available on the market by fall 2000.[35] However, the project suffered delays and by Electronic Entertainment Expo (E3) 2000, Roberts said the earliest release for the game was at the end of 2001.[6]

In June 2000, Microsoft started talks to buy Digital Anvil. Roberts admitted that his team required large sums of money, which only a huge company could provide, to continue developing Freelancer with its "wildly ambitious" features and unpredictable schedule; the project had overshot its original development projection of three years by 18 months. Roberts trusted that Microsoft would not compromise his vision for Freelancer, and was convinced the software giant would not attempt the takeover if it did not believe Freelancer could sell at least 500,000 copies when released.[39] Roberts left the company on completion of the deal, but assumed a creative consultant role on Freelancer until its release.[40] Microsoft instructed Digital Anvil to scale down the ambitions of the project and focus on finishing the game based on what was possible and the team's strengths.[14][20]

Star Citizen is what Freelancer was meant to (but failed to) be. It was still a good game, but it was only saved from development hell and actually released in decent shape when Microsoft reigned it in. Who the fuck says "oh man, we need millions of dollars if we're gonna realize this vision," and then bails on the project when that deal is made? Either Chris Roberts cut his losses and cashed out while the gettin' was good, or even a juggernaut publisher wasn't insane enough to throw as much money at the project as he thought it deserved (yet he still made the deal and left). That is precisely the source of my own personal doubts about Star Citizen. This guy is not worthy of being entrusted with tens of millions of dollars, IMO.

Yeah pretty much. SC and Squadron 42 was supposed to be the ramp-up to his dream project, to prove the tech was there and he could do it. As soon as he tapped into the zeitgeist of people dropping hundreds and thousands on the game *concept* (right around when he said he completely abandoned private funding), I think he threw his original idea out the window and just decided to make his baby.

Problem is I backed the project for Squadron 42, which if memory serves according to the kickstarter was the main thrust of the project. I have this gut feeling that S42 is going to be nerfed to hell and back, because I can't see 50 million ever being enough to develop a game the size and scope of SC, and every penny squeezed from other areas is another penny you don't have to raise later.

At this point I can't see how SC is going to be able to be run from a "private server" for free. Maybe an AWS cluster, but who has hundreds or thousands of dollars a month to afford that shit?
 
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29. Re: Op Ed Sep 1, 2014, 23:35 jacobvandy
 
Chris Roberts did not finish Freelancer... From Wikipedia:

In 1997, Chris Roberts began work on a vision he had since he first conceived Wing Commander. He wanted to realize a virtual galaxy, whose systems execute their own programs regardless of the players' presence; cities would be bustling with transports and each world's weather changes on its own time. Commodity prices in each star system would fluctuate, according to the activities of the computer controlled traders, who import and export goods. Roberts envisioned thousands of players simultaneously interacting with and influencing this world through a unique and intuitive user interface never seen before in other games. Each player could pursue a quest set up for their character, and join other players to attempt other missions together without needing to exit the game and start a new mode of play. Artificial intelligence would fly the players' spacecraft, letting them concentrate on combat or other tasks. Roberts intended the cutscenes and gameplay visuals to be of equal quality so players would be unable to distinguish between the two.[35][36]

Sound familiar?

Two years later, the project was officially announced as Freelancer at GameStock, an annual showcase to the mass media of Microsoft's games.[37] The media covered the event, focusing on the features promised for this game. There were concerns about the state of the graphics and uncertainties over the promise of a dynamic economy, but gaming site GameSpot gave Roberts and his company, Digital Anvil, the benefit of their doubts.[38] Initially in 1999, Roberts announced the game would be available on the market by fall 2000.[35] However, the project suffered delays and by Electronic Entertainment Expo (E3) 2000, Roberts said the earliest release for the game was at the end of 2001.[6]

In June 2000, Microsoft started talks to buy Digital Anvil. Roberts admitted that his team required large sums of money, which only a huge company could provide, to continue developing Freelancer with its "wildly ambitious" features and unpredictable schedule; the project had overshot its original development projection of three years by 18 months. Roberts trusted that Microsoft would not compromise his vision for Freelancer, and was convinced the software giant would not attempt the takeover if it did not believe Freelancer could sell at least 500,000 copies when released.[39] Roberts left the company on completion of the deal, but assumed a creative consultant role on Freelancer until its release.[40] Microsoft instructed Digital Anvil to scale down the ambitions of the project and focus on finishing the game based on what was possible and the team's strengths.[14][20]

Star Citizen is what Freelancer was meant to (but failed to) be. It was still a good game, but it was only saved from development hell and actually released in decent shape when Microsoft reigned it in. Who the fuck says "oh man, we need millions of dollars if we're gonna realize this vision," and then bails on the project when that deal is made? Either Chris Roberts cut his losses and cashed out while the gettin' was good, or even a juggernaut publisher wasn't insane enough to throw as much money at the project as he thought it deserved (yet he still made the deal and left). That is precisely the source of my own personal doubts about Star Citizen. This guy is not worthy of being entrusted with tens of millions of dollars, IMO.
 
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28. Re: Op Ed Sep 1, 2014, 23:29 Cutter
 
As much as I hate the word, the buyer's remorse on this thing is going to be epic.

Edit: Or for shits and giggles, it would have been a great game before it took an arrow to the knee.
 
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27. Re: Op Ed Sep 1, 2014, 21:53 nin
 
[VG]Reagle wrote on Sep 1, 2014, 21:47:
Don't you guys dare talk bad about Chris Roberts. He would never make off with the loot? He has NEVER pumped up the crowds and released vaporware before RIGHT?

Oh wait FreeLancer ....shit he has done EXACTLY that before.

HAHAHA HOOKERS AND YAUGHTS I CALLED IT!!!


Freelancer was a great game, and reviews back that up.

You might want to rethink your strategy...


 
http://store.nin.com/index.php?cPath=10
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26. Re: Op Ed Sep 1, 2014, 21:47 [VG]Reagle
 
Don't you guys dare talk bad about Chris Roberts. He would never make off with the loot? He has NEVER pumped up the crowds and released vaporware before RIGHT?

Oh wait FreeLancer ....shit he has done EXACTLY that before.

HAHAHA HOOKERS AND YAUGHTS I CALLED IT!!!
 
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I am MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH better now.
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25. Re: Op Ed Sep 1, 2014, 21:40 jdreyer
 
Slick wrote on Sep 1, 2014, 21:15:
oh my bad, i didn't realize they recently added a $325 ship/package for sale.

325 fucking dollars for a game which is nowhere near finished yet?

325 bucks and you barely have any game to play with your shiny new ship anyways.

pay2win fail.

I paid $35 or so during the kickstarter. I could see paying $100 for some goodies or something. I really don't understand anyone who pays much more than that. I guess those people are funding it for the rest of us.
 
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24. Re: Op Ed Sep 1, 2014, 21:15 Slick
 
oh my bad, i didn't realize they recently added a $325 ship/package for sale.

325 fucking dollars for a game which is nowhere near finished yet?

325 bucks and you barely have any game to play with your shiny new ship anyways.

pay2win fail.
 
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23. Re: Op Ed Sep 1, 2014, 20:28 Slick
 
fully agree. never seen a pre-alpha game selling $200 ships, and having them move so fast.

I could take a gamble on a $60 game, but $200 just to play "one class" before the game is anywhere near complete is just silly.

still, there's no shortage of people willing to part with their hard-earned dollars, so fuckit hope they get $200 worth of enjoyment, or realise 5 minutes in that they hate this ship, and would have rather bought a different one, oh well! only another $200 away!

E:D looks much more promising, both in gameplay and realism, all in the right places.
 
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22. Re: Op Ed Sep 1, 2014, 20:04 Kosumo
 
Aero wrote on Sep 1, 2014, 19:43:
yuastnav wrote on Sep 1, 2014, 19:12:
I'm still curious, what was the reason to use the CryEngine for this game? I thought that a space sim would require its own engine more than any other genre.

It's a bit of a puzzler, but the Cryengine does do some very impressive and efficient rendering.

And you can easily make HD prerendered videos with it to sell people stuff.
 
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21. Re: Op Ed Sep 1, 2014, 19:43 Aero
 
yuastnav wrote on Sep 1, 2014, 19:12:
I'm still curious, what was the reason to use the CryEngine for this game? I thought that a space sim would require its own engine more than any other genre.

It's a bit of a puzzler, but the Cryengine does do some very impressive and efficient rendering. If they planned on making the first person stuff important, it would make sense as it would be easier to adapt an fps engine to a space engine rather than the other way around (see X-Rebirth) or building them both up from scratch. Were it just a space game, it would likely be easier to start from scratch. An FPS engine is a pretty specialized affair, whereas a space engine is more or less just moving static objects around.

Squad has done an impressive job of making a space sim out of the Unity engine. After seeing the results of that (particularly with some of the mods that add higher definition textures and volumetric clouds), I'd be inclined to chose that if I were making a space sim.

Anyways, there probably wasn't any obvious off-the-shelf engine to use and they'd be doing a lot of their own development either way, so Cryengine is likely as good a choice as any.
 
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20. Re: Op Ed Sep 1, 2014, 19:34 saluk
 
I've seen this "Well ED is a smaller game so of course they are further along" bunk before. The huge problem I have with that is that what is striking about comparing the two projects is the disparity in their milestones - not in some mythical end product. At each step of development comparatively, ED appears to make a lot more progress than SC. And with each milestone, the visible progress on SC seems to be moving slower and slower.

This article is pretty trollish, but they are right that as long as people keep donating to the project, they are actually incentivized to NOT release anything or make more progress. If new fish in the aquarium adds 2 mil to the bank account, why work on anything harder than a new goldfish?

I backed SC and not ED, and I love the wing commander series, freelancer etc; and never got into the elite series. But the SC team has jerked me around so much I really lack any trust or faith in it at all, and I'm surprised so many people still do.
 
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19. Re: Op Ed Sep 1, 2014, 19:12 yuastnav
 
I'm still curious, what was the reason to use the CryEngine for this game? I thought that a space sim would require its own engine more than any other genre.  
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18. Re: Op Ed Sep 1, 2014, 19:06 The Half Elf
 
I'm not taking either side, but the author has some points. Do I want to cuddle Star Citizen as my 1st born and brag that I have 1000 hours into the game less then a year after it releases? Of course, but considering how many teams are doing so many different parts of the game, they REALLY need to be showing some progress beyond 2 hangers, the ships, and crap that goes in the hangers.  
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17. Re: Op Ed Sep 1, 2014, 18:58 GameAnger
 
I learnt my lesson with Mech Warrior online. Promises were made and broken.

After the initial sales started to dry up, Piranha Games angled the game to a new broader audience (3rd party view among other broken promises) while shunning their initial backers.

Unfortunately a lot of people will learn their lesson with this game. I do want it to succeed but history has a tendency of repeating itself.
 
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