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Evening Interviews

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86. Re: Evening Interviews Aug 29, 2014, 11:29 ASeven
 
A bit of SJW fun.  
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85. Re: Evening Interviews Aug 29, 2014, 07:24 Cpmartins
 
yuastnav wrote on Aug 28, 2014, 20:24:
Cpmartins wrote on Aug 28, 2014, 20:14:
[...]
The only video I linked was to Anita's one.

It would be nice? Why'd it be nice? So every writer out there should include both sexes in relevant positions because that'd "be nice?". And here we come to the problem don't we. I don't want people to be nice. I want them to be good. If someone makes a game about a woman murdering every single men out there for her own enjoyment I wouldn't try to tell them that's wrong. I just maybe wouldn't buy it (who knows, it may be a good enough game, and I might even do buy it), and move on. I don't believe for one second anyone would be influenced by it and would start showing misandry towards men because of it. And that's the whole point in anita's videos. She told us barefaced that the games ARE influencing us. I don't know about you, but I am no sheep.

First of all, you will be influenced. But I am nit-picking because I am not saying that you will be influenced in any noteworthy way. But we're all always influenced by the media we consume, regardless of how much it changes. Again, just nit-picking.

One problem with what you described is is that sexism (and racism etc.) is asymmetric. Historically speaking women were suppressed and that's why a game about a woman murdering men wouldn't be as problematic as the opposite.
Remember that you are circling out one group, one particular group, for whatever messed up reason you thought out. If it's a guy killing black dudes, it's racist. If it's a guy killing women, it's sexist. Women and black people were thought of as less worth and by making a game about something like that you are reinforcing that reasoning and giving it the merit it doesn't have.
As far as I understand that is a cultural thing, though. A friend told me that in Denmark people are much more open to homophobic and racist jokes and what not but that's probably because it's perceived differently.
If we were all completely unprejudiced and rational beings then having a game where a guy killed women or a women killed men would be no problem because we could shrug it off. But if we were that unprejudiced why would such a game even exist; where would it come from, what would be the source or the initial frame of reference for that idea? Only because it can?
I'm not sure about that.

It's an interesting question. Should we stop portraying people as they are in videogames because they have been oppressed in recent history? In my opinion, that's a big no. let the creators decide on their creations free of society bias.

The frame of reference is entertainment for entertainment's sake. Create, don't emulate, for those with the inclination. It has been done before, many times.

Update: An excellent read on double standards in the current state of media (Warning: long read): Link

This comment was edited on Aug 29, 2014, 08:24.
 
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84. Re: Evening Interviews Aug 29, 2014, 06:23 Julio
 
Prez wrote on Aug 28, 2014, 22:22:
Is there anyone NOT sick of this topic yet?...They are the fringe; they are the loons, not us.

A great post (though I cut out most of the middle). I think the SJW crowd has pushed this to sexism to hide the discussion of the lack of integrity in the gaming media.

My hope is that those who develop hardcore games know where the money is, which is not with the fringe SJW lunatics. And they shouldn't worry about the gaming press, who don't buy games themselves much anyways. A new gaming press will emerge from those who speak the truth, and SJW sites like Kotaku will die.
 
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82. Re: Evening Interviews Aug 29, 2014, 05:13 Jerykk
 
Jensen wrote on Aug 29, 2014, 01:45:
Jerykk wrote on Aug 29, 2014, 00:48:
Of course, the mere fact that she's a prostitute would be enough for Sarkeesian to declare her an example of misogyny (assuming that she actually played the first two Hitman games).

Sarkeesian almost never uses inflammatory or accusatory languages in her videos. She only uses a form of the word "misogyny" a few times, and every time she uses it, she is referring to NPCs in the game, and not the game itself or the creators of the game.
I don't see anywhere she says that there shouldn't be prostitutes in games.

People are reading a lot more into her videos than what is actually there.

I feel like you aren't reading at all into her videos. The whole point of the series is to convince people that misogyny and sexism is prevalent in videogames. She avoids using those specific words directly because she's trying to appear objective and those words are pretty charged. Instead, she refers to "gender signifiers" or "background decoration" as ways in which videogames are sexist.

Any time a game has strippers or prostitutes, Sarkeesian cites it as an example of sexism. She did it in her latest video and the one before that and probably every single one of her videos. It doesn't matter if the stripper or prostitute makes perfect sense within the context of the game, she'll list it anyway.
 
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81. Re: Evening Interviews Aug 29, 2014, 03:44 ASeven
 
A most interesting read on the misogyny of gaming.  
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80. Re: Evening Interviews Aug 29, 2014, 01:45 Jensen
 
Jerykk wrote on Aug 29, 2014, 00:48:
Of course, the mere fact that she's a prostitute would be enough for Sarkeesian to declare her an example of misogyny (assuming that she actually played the first two Hitman games).

Sarkeesian almost never uses inflammatory or accusatory languages in her videos. She only uses a form of the word "misogyny" a few times, and every time she uses it, she is referring to NPCs in the game, and not the game itself or the creators of the game.
I don't see anywhere she says that there shouldn't be prostitutes in games.

People are reading a lot more into her videos than what is actually there.

This comment was edited on Aug 29, 2014, 01:56.
 
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79. Re: Evening Interviews Aug 29, 2014, 01:29 jdreyer
 
Also, Ars just posted this a couple of hours ago, and it positively exploded.

The death of the “gamers” and the women who “killed” them
 
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"Microsoft is the absent minded parent of PC gaming" - Verno
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78. Re: Evening Interviews Aug 29, 2014, 01:26 jdreyer
 
Female Game Developer's response to Tropes vs Women

I thought this was interesting.
 
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"Microsoft is the absent minded parent of PC gaming" - Verno
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77. Re: Evening Interviews Aug 29, 2014, 00:48 Jerykk
 
But, having played a Hitman game and Skyrim, I can say there's a huge difference between them. One has women, which you interact with in many ways, which play many roles, and which factor into the plot. The other has women which you kill. One has men which you interact with, in many ways, which play many roles, and factor into the plot. So does the other.

I feel like you haven't actually played any of the Hitman games. Diana, your handler, is the only character you interact with on a regular basis and she's a non-sexualized female (at least, she was until Absolution). She's also the only character that has any real character development. The rest of the characters you interact with? Primarily male targets who you brutally murder without hesitation or remorse. Oh yeah, there are a couple of missions in the first two games where a prostitute will help you complete your mission if you help her escape. Is that sexist? No, not really. She only agrees to help you if you help her, making it a negotiation where both sides have equal leverage. Her occupation also makes sense given the locations where you find her. Of course, the mere fact that she's a prostitute would be enough for Sarkeesian to declare her an example of misogyny (assuming that she actually played the first two Hitman games).

In any case, Sarkeesian was right to point out the issues with Blood Money's marketing. The fact that all the women were beautiful and scantily clad (or naked) and posed in seductive manners was a bit misogynistic. However, developers have nothing to do with marketing so they can't be blamed for that. They can, however, be blamed for the ridiculous outfits that the Saints wear in Absolution. I'm surprised Sarkeesian didn't include those in her video, as that's a valid example of sexism.

This comment was edited on Aug 29, 2014, 01:00.
 
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76. Re: Evening Interviews Aug 28, 2014, 22:22 Prez
 
Is there anyone NOT sick of this topic yet? The problem is that those of us fighting against the extreme feminism movement within the gaming industry cannot be silent, lest the disingenuous professional victims with their twisted self-serving agendas succeed in stamping out any and all creative expression that doesn't conform to the extreme feminist mandate of portrayal of women.

Does anyone ever stop to wonder why the SJW's are so adamant about attacking sexism in the games industry when the movie industry has all the same tropes that videogames are accused of having, only several of orders of magnitude greater? I have found myself doing that more and more since this latest Zoe Quinn crap. Maybe someone else can offer a suggestion, but the only reasonable explanation I've been able to come up with is the complete lack of journalistic integrity and professionalism in the gaming press. I mean they aren't only complicit in advancing the extreme feminist agenda wherever and whenever they can, they also help to silence legitimate critics of the movement in a myriad of ways. In ways far more effective than just shouting them down with insults and distasteful labels as some in this thread are attempting. In the gaming press, there is no counterpoint, no dissenting opinion. The gaming press IS the point; the press is the ONLY opinion.

Regardless of whether I am close or off by a mile, I think the most important thing for the moderates in gaming (who by their very nature will always be less vocal than the vocal minorities of both extremes of this issue) not let the extreme fringe views of those like Sarkeesian, her willful collaborators in the gaming media, and the "useful idiots" (like Joss Whedon) who unwittingly support aforementioned entities' extremist agenda through ignorance of the facts be the ones who control the narrative on this. We need to be clear - what they want isn't what we want. We want equality in all things, be it race, gender, sexual orientation, whatever. What they want is the control over the expression of ideas where they can stamp out creative endeavors that fail to adhere to their warped, self-serving vision of how the women in games MUST be portrayed exclusively. They are for the very antithesis of freedom of expression. Oh sure, they will try to silence you with the well-worn labeling of their critics. They by necessity exist in a binary reality where if you don't subscribed be to their extremism you are misogynist. If you don't see anything wrong about historically-accurate portrayal of gender roles in games you are sexist. If you point out the many flaws in their cherry-picked, misrepresented examples you are the typical tribal male defending his turf. Don't let them. Call them out on it. They are the fringe; they are the loons, not us.

This comment was edited on Aug 28, 2014, 22:37.
 
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
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75. Re: Evening Interviews Aug 28, 2014, 21:00 Redmask
 
yuastnav wrote on Aug 28, 2014, 20:10:
Who said that I accepted it blindly?

You, several times. Like here:

I have to admit that, also based on the problems I have outlined above, I didn't watch her latest videos and didn't follow what happened outside of that. That's also the reason why, when discussing this topic, I tried to make as few references to her as possible. Just because I don't know much about what's going at the moment. Same thing with Zoe. What's important to me is the message, that there is sexism in video games, in the video games industry, in the tech industry etc. and that's what I'm concerned about.

You're walking into discussions, calling people arseholes if they don't have the reaction you want, without really knowing what is going on and saying that your mind can't be changed because 'sexism = true'. Perhaps you should stop to consider why people are reacting the way they are, the context and circumstances surrounding everything will make it more clear. Recent news has contained many revelations about these movements and it has people questioning whats manufactured or beaten into our heads through guilt driven editorials and what is real. You haven't been following it and I'd suggest its time to dig in, there's been a lot of censorship, threats that conveniently rear their head at opportune times with dubious circumstance and other alarming bullshit surrounding it all.

Let me ask you a few questions that probably won't sit well with a black and white moral compass. Do you think men alone are sexist? Do you look around in life and not see women being sexist? Really stop and think about that one for a few minutes. When men create media targeted at men, do you think its wrong if they don't consider womens feelings? How about the reverse? My point is that maybe some sexism is inherent based on cultural and gender differences, its not all wrong headed and mean spirited either. People cloud those differences with behavioral issues exhibited by a minority and then unfairly tar all men with it.

As for the industry at large, they create what sells. Yelling at people about sexism doesn't get people anywhere. Make games, buy games, do it in volume and the industry will have no problems, the audience follows suit. Why do you think the NFL has breast cancer ribbons, more female reporters than ever before and is increasingly targeting womens issues in what was largely considered a male driven sport? The answer is that it became a growth market and no one ignores money.
 
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74. Re: Evening Interviews Aug 28, 2014, 20:38 eRe4s3r
 
yuastnav wrote on Aug 28, 2014, 16:38:
eRe4s3r wrote on Aug 28, 2014, 15:59:
yuastnav wrote on Aug 28, 2014, 09:14:
eRe4s3r wrote on Aug 28, 2014, 01:52:
[...] This is politics,[...]

It is not.

What is it then, oh wise gatekeeper of interpretations?

The difference is between what you are and what you chose to be. Your gender, sex, sexual preference and origin is something that you do not chose, it's who you are. Your political stance, your religion etc. is something that you can willingly and freely change.
If someone brings up something like religion in video games then yeah, just ignore it, it really doesn't matter. The same is not true for sexism. If someone is mistreated based on something that that person has no control over then it becomes a problem that should affect everyone and shouldn't be ignored. This is related to the concept of society and human traits like empathy.
In the end it comes down to morality but if someone's stance is "I don't care about sexism/racism/etc., I just want to play my video games." then that person is a fucking arsehole and a poor excuse for a human being. But that's just my personal moral stance. I think Daniel Dennett partly refers to that as being a member of the Moral Agents' Club

Thanks for the reply, and for not taking it as if I was being sarcastic, I was honestly curious why you don't see it as an political issue. To me morals are not something to ever argue about. My empathy stops at the computer screen. (Ok, that's a lie, I care about SOME people I talk to on the web, and I would miss them direly if they'd not be on blues commenting). Point being I care, but this is just fanning the flame-war. It is increasing toxicity and sending the wrong message. I don't mind when sexism in games is a topic here. But these topics are not about sexism nor about feminism. SJW's are the worst enemy of feminism imo.

Either way, didn't really mean to start another giant thread tree with my question. Sorry bout that.

I saw you care about this, that you feel empathy, but to me this empathy does not come anymore with this topic. I just feel irritation. Maybe I am just odd. Honestly speaking? I absolutely hate this topic at this point. And SJW's piss me off mainly because I absolutely HATE what game journalism is nowadays. SJW's attacked TB, 43alley etc. Why? Because they can reason like intelligent people can? How could I feel empathy for harassment and suppression of opinions?

No.. SJW's are damaging feminism utterly. It becomes corrupted, they take the topic over and profiteer from it. I find that deplorable.

Btw, to me this is political because it is HIGHLY polarizing and hostile topic. You can not call it an "moral issue" .. no, this is cold hard politics. It's 2 sides who are slowly and surely drifting apart, what was once irritation turns into outright hate.

That can only happen when the main public figures of a debate behave drastically. And when it is a public debate about morals and what not, then it is politics for me... anyway.. I promise I won't post here anymore. It just extends an insane thread further.

This comment was edited on Aug 28, 2014, 20:47.
 
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73. Re: Evening Interviews Aug 28, 2014, 20:24 yuastnav
 
Cpmartins wrote on Aug 28, 2014, 20:14:
[...]
The only video I linked was to Anita's one.

It would be nice? Why'd it be nice? So every writer out there should include both sexes in relevant positions because that'd "be nice?". And here we come to the problem don't we. I don't want people to be nice. I want them to be good. If someone makes a game about a woman murdering every single men out there for her own enjoyment I wouldn't try to tell them that's wrong. I just maybe wouldn't buy it (who knows, it may be a good enough game, and I might even do buy it), and move on. I don't believe for one second anyone would be influenced by it and would start showing misandry towards men because of it. And that's the whole point in anita's videos. She told us barefaced that the games ARE influencing us. I don't know about you, but I am no sheep.

First of all, you will be influenced. But I am nit-picking because I am not saying that you will be influenced in any noteworthy way. But we're all always influenced by the media we consume, regardless of how much it changes. Again, just nit-picking.

One problem with what you described is is that sexism (and racism etc.) is asymmetric. Historically speaking women were suppressed and that's why a game about a woman murdering men wouldn't be as problematic as the opposite.
Remember that you are circling out one group, one particular group, for whatever messed up reason you thought out. If it's a guy killing black dudes, it's racist. If it's a guy killing women, it's sexist. Women and black people were thought of as less worth and by making a game about something like that you are reinforcing that reasoning and giving it the merit it doesn't have.
As far as I understand that is a cultural thing, though. A friend told me that in Denmark people are much more open to homophobic and racist jokes and what not but that's probably because it's perceived differently.
If we were all completely unprejudiced and rational beings then having a game where a guy killed women or a women killed men would be no problem because we could shrug it off. But if we were that unprejudiced why would such a game even exist; where would it come from, what would be the source or the initial frame of reference for that idea? Only because it can?
I'm not sure about that.
 
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72. Re: Evening Interviews Aug 28, 2014, 20:14 Cpmartins
 
Beamer wrote on Aug 28, 2014, 19:15:
Cpmartins wrote on Aug 28, 2014, 18:31:
"I believe that's the crux of the argument. Both have you interacting with men in a variety of ways and have men driving the plot, but only one has women doing these things."

One is about a hitman, who is a man. The other is about a chosen one, who can be a woman or a man. There is no argument. No One ever said Lara Croft has a misandric narrative. Because it doesn't. And neither does Hitman. And even if they did, it's besides the point. Developers should be allowed to do whatever they want without fear of social shaming. Notice I didn't say criticism. I meant what Patricia Hernandez (Link) did with Blood Dragon.

As for the link to the second time anita's been lying about developers introducing misogynistic elements in games for the sake of empowering male violence against women, here it is: (Link 2)


And the funny thing about the whole thing is that Josh Sawyer, both Lead Designer and Creative Director for that wonderful game contributed to her campaign, and even tweeted about it.

Stop linking to crappy youtube videos and start just telling people what's in them. I very much appreciate you linking directly to the relevant part, but I'd much rather someone say "here's what is in XXX" and then link to it. We don't all have a lot of time to watch a lot of videos and read a lot of articles. Just tell me what it says and source it. This isn't telling you you suck or a bad person, it's giving constructive feedback that would make replying to you easier and get better responses.


Regardless, you're still missing the point. Anita isn't saying "this game is bad, burn it!" She's saying "here's a pattern that's visible in multiple games." This isn't a witch hunt on her part to point out individual terrible things, it's to show evidence of broad patterns. Maybe you like some of those games. I liked some of those games. She liked some of those games. But there are wide ranging patterns she wants to show.

And she never said Hitman needed to be Hitwoman, she said it would be nice of Hitman featured a single woman that didn't exist solely to die. Or if many games did. Because many games don't.

There's a huge difference between "Here's another example of a game where the only female characters exist to die" and "Hitman is a terrible game because you can't play as a female character and everyone that enjoys Hitman is a terrible person."

She's saying the former, not the latter.

The only video I linked was Anita's one.

It would be nice? Why'd it be nice? So every writer out there should include both sexes in relevant positions because that'd "be nice?". And here we come to the problem don't we. I don't want people to be nice. I want them to be good. If someone makes a game about a woman murdering every single men out there for her own enjoyment I wouldn't try to tell them that's wrong. I just maybe wouldn't buy it (who knows, it may be a good enough game, and I might even do buy it), and move on. I don't believe for one second anyone would be influenced by it and would start showing misandry towards men because of it. And that's the whole point in anita's videos. She told us barefaced that the games ARE influencing us. I don't know about you, but I am no sheep.
 
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71. Re: Evening Interviews Aug 28, 2014, 20:10 yuastnav
 
Redmask wrote on Aug 28, 2014, 19:54:
yuastnav wrote on Aug 28, 2014, 19:34:
Of course you need a means to get your point across. Like Anita. Though it looks like that she's not really useful as a vehicle for that since she has lost a lot of credibility.
Yes, her reasons may be selfish but rape threats? Come on. This is some fucked up stuff right there.

A dishonest message from people with questionable motives does no one any good. The fact that you would accept something blindly simply because it might have some lofty moral purpose in a very narrow context is troubling. As for these rape threats, I'd suggest you take a closer look at the evidence and decide if they're legitimate or not without just taking her word for it. She isn't even garnering these in actual games from gamers but instead through anonymous sources on twitter.

Who said that I accepted it blindly? I was of the opinion that a number of video games are sexist long before she even made her video. Her video just reinforced my believes because I saw that I wasn't the only one who thinks like that.
The problems that I have with her is that I don't agree with all the examples and that I don't how much of what she said is true and how much is a lie. Which links to another problem, i.e. her motives are suspect.
I thought that she might be on to something, that it could open up the discussion but I am not so sure anymore.

I have to admit that, also based on the problems I have outlined above, I didn't watch her latest videos and didn't follow what happened outside of that. That's also the reason why, when discussing this topic, I tried to make as few references to her as possible. Just because I don't know much about what's going at the moment. Same thing with Zoe.
What's important to me is the message, that there is sexism in video games, in the video games industry, in the tech industry etc. and that's what I'm concerned about.

What I will accept is that I was too quick to judge when the threats came in but that's because I take that seriously. Talking about morality on such a hypothetical level is one thing, spreading awareness about practical problems another but threats? Imagine it's real. It will really shake you up, especially on something that's so controversial. Religion and politics are not the only constructs that breed extremists.
So you may call me out on the fact that I was too gullible when I believed that the threat was true but I will stand by that. For now. There are a lot of fucked up people out there.

It would be sad to see if that was completely manufactured.

[edit]
I am also jaded by real life experiences with seemingly smart people. I've talked to enough people and I've also witnessed enough situations where sexism was blatant. Often it's the same as with racism. If you call it out you'll hear "What? Me, a racist/sexist? No way!" People get defensive. And by calling it out I don't meant that I called them assholes or insulted that. Just comments like "Hey, you said/did that. Don't you think that was sexist? Here's a logical explanation why I think that way."
Add anonymity to that and what you get most of the time are trolls. If the person in question is more radical/extreme you got a problem.
 
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70. Re: Evening Interviews Aug 28, 2014, 19:54 Redmask
 
yuastnav wrote on Aug 28, 2014, 19:34:
Of course you need a means to get your point across. Like Anita. Though it looks like that she's not really useful as a vehicle for that since she has lost a lot of credibility.
Yes, her reasons may be selfish but rape threats? Come on. This is some fucked up stuff right there.

A dishonest message from people with questionable motives does no one any good. The fact that you would accept something blindly simply because it might have some lofty moral purpose in a very narrow context is troubling. As for these rape threats, I'd suggest you take a closer look at the evidence and decide if they're legitimate or not without just taking her word for it. She isn't even garnering these in actual games from gamers but instead through anonymous sources on twitter.
 
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69. Re: Evening Interviews Aug 28, 2014, 19:34 yuastnav
 
Redmask wrote on Aug 28, 2014, 19:03:
yuastnav wrote on Aug 28, 2014, 18:52:
As a compassionate being your first reaction shouldn't be one of irritation but of empathy. Maybe I am too gullible but as I said: that kind of callousness is not something I can readily comprehend.

That was many peoples first reaction. And second, third, fourth and then it started to become really obvious what was going on. People use terms like victim complex because that is exactly what is going on here.

Here's an uncomfortable truth. Men and women are different, they will never be treated as complete equals in all things. People tote around female demographics in the gaming industry but for the most part they are not playing the same kinds of games we are. We have female oriented television, movies, games and books just like we have male driven media.

People like Anita are not interested in equality. They are interested in their way of thinking being the dominant one. That is what pisses people off. There is no honest discussion going on, we are being spoken to and told what to do with this overriding idea that we are horrible people if we do not. I am tired of anyone telling me whats going on in my head with my morals based on some imagined lack of action on my part. So excuse me if I yawn when I see this sort of thing but I've seen it all before, several times already and been treated like shit by people who supposedly want my help, some which have been revealed as complete frauds.

I don't want to see anyone treated badly, male or female. But guess what? That's fucking life, especially on the internet. Bad things happen to good people, we do our best to minimize that and we move on. Some utter moron like Anita paints a target on her chest, eggs people on then plays the drama queen when something actually happens (and I'm not even convinced it did based on the evidence). That says nothing about you, me or anyone else. It says something about her.

This is where I disagree. Men and women are different but from that it doesn't necessarily follow that they should be treated differently.
What I am talking about is a hypothetical construct/standard that is unrealistic but which is needed as a sort of goal we can work towards.

There are female and male demographics and all that other stuff you mentioned but the question is why it is there. Of course the roots are historical and the big question is how much of it is scientifically accurate, i.e. in what ways men and women really differ as opposed to what children are taught when they are brought up.
If we take a stupid and simple example like high heels, we can see that it is related to the construct of female beauty. That construct is artificial, though, but it would look completely unnatural for us if men would be wearing high-heeled shoes. That is not something that is biologically or genetically a woman's thing but that is something we learned. That would also be the reason, as far as I see it, why feminists regard it as sexist (for the sake of honesty and open discussion I will state that I agree with that and that I consider myself a feminist).

I guess my opinion about how equal men and women should be, or what the term equal means, is just more extreme than yours.

As far as keyboard activism is concerned it is something that always makes me wonder. How else would you do it?
I can see several ways in how you can manipulate other people to think the way you do (here I assume the hypothesis that you think that your set of morals is the only correct one):
- By enforcing it through some kind of monarchical system or dictatorship
- By writing a really successful book that (secretly), through a clever rhetoric, tries to convince people to think the way you do
- By talking about it
- By bringing up your children with your set of standards

Some of them will be more effective than others, some will be more radical than others. Guess which is the easiest of these. You talk to people. You try to keep the discussion open, you try to get your point across and you try to convince people that what you think is right and that there is a problem.
In the grand scheme you could also have protests and stuff like that but it's easy to protest against a big entity or an institution like the government. It's not as easy to protest against half of the population. One problem is that people are susceptible to propaganda and to the media to varying degrees. Just look at all the ads and billboards and how the women look in these. This creates a false image in the head of all people that is difficult to remove.
The question then is why this is the case and who benefits from that. Who would want to have sexism in video games? Of course you'd also need to make a distinction between people who make sexist games because they don't know better and people who want to somehow benefit from that by... I dunno, giving someone a powerfantasy or something. I will admit that I have no apparent answer for that last point.

Of course you need a means to get your point across. Like Anita. Though it looks like that she's not really useful as a vehicle for that since she has lost a lot of credibility.
Yes, her reasons may be selfish but rape threats? Come on. This is some fucked up stuff right there.
Personally I'm also very stubborn. Yeah, bad things happen and that's part of life but that doesn't mean that we just leave it at that after it had happened so many times because every time something bad happens you have to fight it. Of course it's unrealistic and impractical (and more complicated) but the general gist stays the same.
 
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68. Re: Evening Interviews Aug 28, 2014, 19:25 Jensen
 
Mad Max RW wrote on Aug 27, 2014, 22:27:
It's hard to believe anything these people say when they cry wolf so damn much.

Aaand it's probably fake.

If that's fake, then that anti-Sarkeesian movie must be fake too, because no one could possibly look that douchey unless they were secretly making an MRA parody video.
 
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67. Re: Evening Interviews Aug 28, 2014, 19:15 Beamer
 
Cpmartins wrote on Aug 28, 2014, 18:31:
"I believe that's the crux of the argument. Both have you interacting with men in a variety of ways and have men driving the plot, but only one has women doing these things."

One is about a hitman, who is a man. The other is about a chosen one, who can be a woman or a man. There is no argument. No One ever said Lara Croft has a misandric narrative. Because it doesn't. And neither does Hitman. And even if they did, it's besides the point. Developers should be allowed to do whatever they want without fear of social shaming. Notice I didn't say criticism. I meant what Patricia Hernandez (Link) did with Blood Dragon.

As for the link to the second time anita's been lying about developers introducing misogynistic elements in games for the sake of empowering male violence against women, here it is: (Link 2)


And the funny thing about the whole thing is that Josh Sawyer, both Lead Designer and Creative Director for that wonderful game contributed to her campaign, and even tweeted about it.

Stop linking to crappy youtube videos and start just telling people what's in them. I very much appreciate you linking directly to the relevant part, but I'd much rather someone say "here's what is in XXX" and then link to it. We don't all have a lot of time to watch a lot of videos and read a lot of articles. Just tell me what it says and source it. This isn't telling you you suck or a bad person, it's giving constructive feedback that would make replying to you easier and get better responses.


Regardless, you're still missing the point. Anita isn't saying "this game is bad, burn it!" She's saying "here's a pattern that's visible in multiple games." This isn't a witch hunt on her part to point out individual terrible things, it's to show evidence of broad patterns. Maybe you like some of those games. I liked some of those games. She liked some of those games. But there are wide ranging patterns she wants to show.

And she never said Hitman needed to be Hitwoman, she said it would be nice of Hitman featured a single woman that didn't exist solely to die. Or if many games did. Because many games don't.

There's a huge difference between "Here's another example of a game where the only female characters exist to die" and "Hitman is a terrible game because you can't play as a female character and everyone that enjoys Hitman is a terrible person."

She's saying the former, not the latter.
 
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