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Op Ed

Tropes vs Women in Video Games - Women as Background Decoration- Part 2. Thanks Ant via Boing Boing.
This is the second episode exploring the Women as Background Decoration trope in video games. In this installment we expand our discussion to examine how sexualized female bodies often occupy a dual role as both sexual playthings and the perpetual victims of male violence.

Social Justice Warriors.
Social Justice Warriors is a satirical role-playing game that transforms you into a crusader for online morality, a champion of internet justice, and the lone defender standing valiantly against the encroaching morass of willful human ignorance.

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51. Re: Op Ed Aug 30, 2014, 05:39 Jerykk
 
Beamer wrote on Aug 29, 2014, 13:01:
No, her entire point is a pattern.

Take, say, the damsel in distress trope. She isn't condemning individual games for using it (though some are lazy about it.) She's saying it's problematic that so many games use it.

It isn't an attack on games. It isn't condemning games. It's point out things games do that they could be better about.

Your Hitman argument falls flat. She says they exist solely to die. And yes, you're penalized for it, but all they can do is die. That's it. And they're the women in the game. They're just obstacles.

And sorry, Jerykk, I think the important thing isn't that we make sure her tactics are ok (and no, she doesn't outright lie.) The important thing is improving. So people don't like her tactics, then why do so many just discount the message. And her cause is being helped. A lot. While there's a lot of fan response against her, the industry response towards her has been almost unanimously positive. One of those is more important than the other.

Patterns need to be based on facts. Something isn't sexist if both sexes are equally represented. That's the problem with most of her examples. They ignore the fact that the things you can do to women can also be done to men. Your/her Hitman example is a perfect example of that. The strippers in Hitman: Absolution are civilians. The majority of NPCs (male or female) in any Hitman game are civilians. Civilians exist as obstacles that must be neutralized or avoided. None of this is specific to women. It's just the role that civilians (again, male or female) play in the Hitman games. Also, as I mentioned in another thread, there are plenty of women in Hitman: Absolution that do more than just die or act as background decoration. There are many female NPCs that will attack you upon detection and have their own unique backstories and personalities, along with dialogue and cutscenes.

And yes, Sarkeesian does outright lie. For example, she claims that most of the male victims of random crime events in Watch_Dogs will aggressively defend themselves. That's a lie. I've put about 30 hours into Watch_Dogs and seen at least a hundred crime events and in the vast majority of those, male victims are just as passive and defenseless as female victims. She also claims (and I quote) "players are meant to derive a perverse pleasure from desecrating the bodies of unsuspecting virtual female characters. It's a rush streaming from a carefully concocted mix of sexual arousal connected to the act of controlling and punishing representations of female sexuality." That's in reference to the fact that you can kill and drag the bodies of female strippers in Hitman: Absolution. Given the fact that you can kill and drag ALL NPCs (male or female) and that the game actively punishes you for killing civilians (male or female), how is that argument in any way accurate or honest? She makes it sound like Hitman is a violent rape simulator, for crying out loud.


Sarkeesian is essentially the Michael Moore of the gaming industry. Her contrived, misleading and often fabricated examples undermine the effectiveness of her message and only serve to create resistance and skepticism towards it. There will always be an extremist minority that will troll her regardless of how cogent or honest her arguments are. However, there's a larger portion of intelligent, informed and critical gamers who would actually respect and side with her if her arguments were valid. No offense but the only way you could watch her videos without being offended is if you already believed in her message, didn't play the games she cites and/or actively turned off your critical thinking ability so as to not undermine your beliefs. People have a tendency to turn a blind eye to logic or reason when hearing what they want to hear. "Preaching to the choir" is an apt phrase.

This comment was edited on Aug 30, 2014, 05:51.
 
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50. Re: Op Ed Aug 29, 2014, 13:36 Julio
 
harlock wrote on Aug 29, 2014, 02:22:
for someone so upset about the objectification and sexualization of female bodies, she sure does wear a bunch of make-up.. drawn on eyebrows and all that shit

It probably helps in trolling for game journalists...
 
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49. Re: Op Ed Aug 29, 2014, 13:01 Beamer
 
Jerykk wrote on Aug 29, 2014, 12:42:
Beamer wrote on Aug 29, 2014, 11:18:
Jerykk wrote on Aug 28, 2014, 23:44:
Sarkeesian is just really bad at supporting her points. She does research on games and looks for things that support her agenda, ignoring context or anything else that might undermine her argument.

Nobody is going to claim that misogyny doesn't exist in games. However, a game isn't misogynistic just because it contains prostitutes that can be killed. About 90% of Sarkeesian's examples ignore context completely. Sure, you can beat up women in Sleeping Dogs and stick them in your trunk but you can do the exact same thing to men. Sure, the random crime events in Watch Dogs do have passive female victims but they also have passive male victims. Sure, there are dead, scantily clad female bodies in Mafia 2 BUT THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU HAVE A SHOOTOUT IN A STRIP CLUB. Cripes.

Imagine if I played GTA, went out of my way to specifically kill a bunch of black NPCs, took the money that randomly dropped and then declared that the game was racist because it rewarded me for killing black people. Pretty absurd, right? Except that's the exact logic that Sarkeesian uses for most of her examples. She's the epitome of the Social Justice Warrior. She finds social issues where there are none and automatically dismisses anyone who disagrees.

If you watch her videos, she never actually calls a game misogynist. She calls characters in it, but usually when the character beats are that he is. And she doesn't criticize that when it's the villain.

But her point isn't "these games are misogynist," it's that "women aren't portrayed well in games and games have a lot of misogynist elements." There's a huge, huge, huge difference there.

She doesn't have to explicitly use the word "misogynist." Her entire series is devoted to convincing people that sexism is rampant in videogames. Every example she provides is used to that end. I'd be totally fine with that if she used good examples. But she doesn't. She ignores context and provides intentionally misleading footage. For example, in a previous video, she said that the strippers in Hitman: Absolution exist solely so that men can kill them and play with their bodies and that game actively encourages this. She then showed footage of 47 killing the strippers and dragging their bodies around. That's utter bullshit. If you kill strippers (or any other civilians) in Hitman, you are penalized for doing so. You lose points, you lose money, you gain notoriety (in Blood Money, at least). The murder of civilians (female or otherwise) is actively discouraged. Hitman wasn't some sort of exception, either. She makes similarly ridiculous claims with games like Sleeping Dogs, Watch_Dogs, Just Cause 2, Bioshock, GTA, Dishonored, Fallout, Kane & Lynch, etc.

It's okay to agree with her message. There definitely is sexism in games and it should be addressed. However, you need to be critical of how that message is conveyed and Sarkeesian conveys her message in the worst way possible: by ignoring context and straight out lying in many cases. That doesn't help her cause. If anything, it gives the trolls more fuel and gives rational people less reason to agree with her.

No, her entire point is a pattern.

Take, say, the damsel in distress trope. She isn't condemning individual games for using it (though some are lazy about it.) She's saying it's problematic that so many games use it.

It isn't an attack on games. It isn't condemning games. It's point out things games do that they could be better about.

Your Hitman argument falls flat. She says they exist solely to die. And yes, you're penalized for it, but all they can do is die. That's it. And they're the women in the game. They're just obstacles.

And sorry, Jerykk, I think the important thing isn't that we make sure her tactics are ok (and no, she doesn't outright lie.) The important thing is improving. So people don't like her tactics, then why do so many just discount the message. And her cause is being helped. A lot. While there's a lot of fan response against her, the industry response towards her has been almost unanimously positive. One of those is more important than the other.
 
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48. Re: Op Ed Aug 29, 2014, 12:42 Jerykk
 
Beamer wrote on Aug 29, 2014, 11:18:
Jerykk wrote on Aug 28, 2014, 23:44:
Sarkeesian is just really bad at supporting her points. She does research on games and looks for things that support her agenda, ignoring context or anything else that might undermine her argument.

Nobody is going to claim that misogyny doesn't exist in games. However, a game isn't misogynistic just because it contains prostitutes that can be killed. About 90% of Sarkeesian's examples ignore context completely. Sure, you can beat up women in Sleeping Dogs and stick them in your trunk but you can do the exact same thing to men. Sure, the random crime events in Watch Dogs do have passive female victims but they also have passive male victims. Sure, there are dead, scantily clad female bodies in Mafia 2 BUT THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU HAVE A SHOOTOUT IN A STRIP CLUB. Cripes.

Imagine if I played GTA, went out of my way to specifically kill a bunch of black NPCs, took the money that randomly dropped and then declared that the game was racist because it rewarded me for killing black people. Pretty absurd, right? Except that's the exact logic that Sarkeesian uses for most of her examples. She's the epitome of the Social Justice Warrior. She finds social issues where there are none and automatically dismisses anyone who disagrees.

If you watch her videos, she never actually calls a game misogynist. She calls characters in it, but usually when the character beats are that he is. And she doesn't criticize that when it's the villain.

But her point isn't "these games are misogynist," it's that "women aren't portrayed well in games and games have a lot of misogynist elements." There's a huge, huge, huge difference there.

She doesn't have to explicitly use the word "misogynist." Her entire series is devoted to convincing people that sexism is rampant in videogames. Every example she provides is used to that end. I'd be totally fine with that if she used good examples. But she doesn't. She ignores context and provides intentionally misleading footage. For example, in a previous video, she said that the strippers in Hitman: Absolution exist solely so that men can kill them and play with their bodies and that game actively encourages this. She then showed footage of 47 killing the strippers and dragging their bodies around. That's utter bullshit. If you kill strippers (or any other civilians) in Hitman, you are penalized for doing so. You lose points, you lose money, you gain notoriety (in Blood Money, at least). The murder of civilians (female or otherwise) is actively discouraged. Hitman wasn't some sort of exception, either. She makes similarly ridiculous claims with games like Sleeping Dogs, Watch_Dogs, Just Cause 2, Bioshock, GTA, Dishonored, Fallout, Kane & Lynch, etc.

It's okay to agree with her message. There definitely is sexism in games and it should be addressed. However, you need to be critical of how that message is conveyed and Sarkeesian conveys her message in the worst way possible: by ignoring context and straight out lying in many cases. That doesn't help her cause. If anything, it gives the trolls more fuel and gives rational people less reason to agree with her.
 
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47. Re: Op Ed Aug 29, 2014, 11:19 Beamer
 
Prez wrote on Aug 28, 2014, 21:45:
Whether a few or many, games that don't fit the narrative are ignored because they weaken their extremist cause. Let's say 50% of games have strong women roles. Would that be enough? What about if we reached a point where 75% did? Or 90%? Or 99%? No, as long as even one game exists where even a single solitary woman isn't portrayed exactly the way extreme feminism wants, no, DEMANDS that she be portrayed, the Sarkeesians of the world will continue playing the professional victim. And as long as the spineless and corrupt media remains complicit in helping Sarkeesian stamp out freedom of expression that doesn't suit their wrong-headed agenda it will continue to spread throughout gaming like a cancer. It isn't about equality; it's about the complete suppression of creative ideas that don't fit a narrow, distasteful value system set forth by extreme feminism . I don't want to be a part of an industry like that. Of course I would rather I was able to help force those who would so alter gaming to abandon their twisted crusade before it comes to that.

Yes, the slippery slope argument. Let's not improve anything, because is any improvement enough? Let's keep with something bad rather than try at all.
 
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46. Re: Op Ed Aug 29, 2014, 11:18 Beamer
 
Jerykk wrote on Aug 28, 2014, 23:44:
Sarkeesian is just really bad at supporting her points. She does research on games and looks for things that support her agenda, ignoring context or anything else that might undermine her argument.

Nobody is going to claim that misogyny doesn't exist in games. However, a game isn't misogynistic just because it contains prostitutes that can be killed. About 90% of Sarkeesian's examples ignore context completely. Sure, you can beat up women in Sleeping Dogs and stick them in your trunk but you can do the exact same thing to men. Sure, the random crime events in Watch Dogs do have passive female victims but they also have passive male victims. Sure, there are dead, scantily clad female bodies in Mafia 2 BUT THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU HAVE A SHOOTOUT IN A STRIP CLUB. Cripes.

Imagine if I played GTA, went out of my way to specifically kill a bunch of black NPCs, took the money that randomly dropped and then declared that the game was racist because it rewarded me for killing black people. Pretty absurd, right? Except that's the exact logic that Sarkeesian uses for most of her examples. She's the epitome of the Social Justice Warrior. She finds social issues where there are none and automatically dismisses anyone who disagrees.

If you watch her videos, she never actually calls a game misogynist. She calls characters in it, but usually when the character beats are that he is. And she doesn't criticize that when it's the villain.

But her point isn't "these games are misogynist," it's that "women aren't portrayed well in games and games have a lot of misogynist elements." There's a huge, huge, huge difference there.
 
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45. Re: Op Ed Aug 29, 2014, 03:18 InBlack
 
Wow some of you guys really took this discussion to the next level with your pissing contest. Cos that's what this is. A pissing contest.

This Sarkasian woman is clearly a fraud. She is trying to make a living by sensationalising, which I grant it isnt really as bad as those televangelists 'healing' the 'sick' and then passing the collection box arround, but its pretty bad.

Is there sexism in gaming? Yes. Is there sexim in the world today? Yes there is. Is it allright to use the 'boogeyman' to further your own selfish agenda? I would have to say no.

Let me point to that other political hot topic, some years ago, as an example. The McCarthy Communist witch hunts.

Its was much worse than this latst political hot potato obviously, but its still a good example of what happens when you create a boogeyman and you let it spiral out of control...

This comment was edited on Aug 29, 2014, 05:24.
 
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44. Re: Op Ed Aug 29, 2014, 02:22 harlock
 
for someone so upset about the objectification and sexualization of female bodies, she sure does wear a bunch of make-up.. drawn on eyebrows and all that shit  
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43. Re: Op Ed Aug 28, 2014, 23:44 Jerykk
 
Sarkeesian is just really bad at supporting her points. She does research on games and looks for things that support her agenda, ignoring context or anything else that might undermine her argument.

Nobody is going to claim that misogyny doesn't exist in games. However, a game isn't misogynistic just because it contains prostitutes that can be killed. About 90% of Sarkeesian's examples ignore context completely. Sure, you can beat up women in Sleeping Dogs and stick them in your trunk but you can do the exact same thing to men. Sure, the random crime events in Watch Dogs do have passive female victims but they also have passive male victims. Sure, there are dead, scantily clad female bodies in Mafia 2 BUT THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU HAVE A SHOOTOUT IN A STRIP CLUB. Cripes.

Imagine if I played GTA, went out of my way to specifically kill a bunch of black NPCs, took the money that randomly dropped and then declared that the game was racist because it rewarded me for killing black people. Pretty absurd, right? Except that's the exact logic that Sarkeesian uses for most of her examples. She's the epitome of the Social Justice Warrior. She finds social issues where there are none and automatically dismisses anyone who disagrees.
 
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42. Re: Op Ed Aug 28, 2014, 22:54 Redmask
 
Every character was awful in GTA V and I can name almost all characters from it, male or female. It was a whole game based on people doing shitty things. What an ineffective argument. 10 years ago I would've understood the point, these days its just not true.  
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41. Re: Op Ed Aug 28, 2014, 22:48 Slashman
 
Beamer wrote on Aug 28, 2014, 21:44:

I'm not saying she's perfect.
But she also isn't saying every trop applies to every game.

But she IS saying that tropes not present in several games are present. If you don't find that disturbing from someone who is supposed to be championing a cause to make games better, then I don't know what to say to you.

We aren't pretending that pimps and prostitutes don't exist, but are you going to pretend that they're as common in real life as they are in games?

Are you serious? Prostitutes abound in the real world. There are whole cities and countries where they are a major part of the freaking economy.

If a game has a scene set in a strip club, who do you expect to see in the club? Because I'd wager that strippers would be the first thing to come to mind. Same for a brothel. I'd expect to see hookers.

As for GTAV, name one female character in that game. I'd be surprised if you could. Now, name one female character that wasn't entirely heinous and awful.

That's great and actually what I said except SHE didn't in her video. Again that is my point. She instead takes a scene that doesn't argue her point well and leaves out the glaring faults in the game that you just named.

I can do it pretty easily for Saints Row. That game had pimps. It had prostitutes. It also had female characters that existed as characters.

Ironically, so did the Witcher 2. It still ended up on her hit list. Wonder how THAT happened?
 
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40. Re: Op Ed Aug 28, 2014, 21:45 Prez
 
Whether a few or many, games that don't fit the narrative are ignored because they weaken their extremist cause. Let's say 50% of games have strong women roles. Would that be enough? What about if we reached a point where 75% did? Or 90%? Or 99%? No, as long as even one game exists where even a single solitary woman isn't portrayed exactly the way extreme feminism wants, no, DEMANDS that she be portrayed, the Sarkeesians of the world will continue playing the professional victim. And as long as the spineless and corrupt media remains complicit in helping Sarkeesian stamp out freedom of expression that doesn't suit their wrong-headed agenda it will continue to spread throughout gaming like a cancer. It isn't about equality; it's about the complete suppression of creative ideas that don't fit a narrow, distasteful value system set forth by extreme feminism . I don't want to be a part of an industry like that. Of course I would rather I was able to help force those who would so alter gaming to abandon their twisted crusade before it comes to that.

This comment was edited on Aug 28, 2014, 21:53.
 
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39. Re: Op Ed Aug 28, 2014, 21:44 Beamer
 
Slashman wrote on Aug 28, 2014, 21:33:
Beamer wrote on Aug 28, 2014, 19:59:
And of course they aren't discussing what doesn't fit their narrative. Because they aren't discussing the current state of games, they're discussing the patterns against women.

The problem a lot of us have is that she keeps choosing games that aren't actually doing what she says they are.

The Witcher 2 had a lot of strong female characters. Several of them more powerful than the male protagonist. But it is set in a world similar to our medieval earth. It wasn't a pleasant place and that is reflected by the sexual unpleasantness and violence that are prevalent in the game.

I don't expect that someone who is arguing for a cause they supposedly feel passionate about is going to be so uninformed. Especially not to the point that they can't produce good examples of what they are arguing about.

And that is exactly what most of us here are angered about. Not just accusations about us, but about the fact that she obviously doesn't even care enough to properly do her homework.

She talks about a scene in grand theft auto where a woman is helpless and at the mercy of two thugs instead of talking about the GTA franchise not having female lead character choices. It's a game about bad people doing bad things. Does she want it censored so only bad things are done to men?

And while I'm at it. Let me address this whole women as helpless objects and prizes for male characters thing. At some point in time, we're all going to have to realize that on average, female humans are physically weaker than male humans. It's genetics and we're not the only species on the planet where one sex is stronger than the other. It kind of stands to reason that if you're portraying evil and twisted men, that these men would take advantage of women because they are physically more powerful than women.

Are we going to pretend that pimps and prostitutes don't exist now as well? Is she arguing that misrepresenting the setting of the gameworld is OK so as not to offend women? In Far Cry 3 a male pimp beats a female prostitute. That's ghastly because it obviously doesn't ever happen in real life right?

I'm not saying she's perfect.
But she also isn't saying every trop applies to every game.

We aren't pretending that pimps and prostitutes don't exist, but are you going to pretend that they're as common in real life as they are in games?
As for GTAV, name one female character in that game. I'd be surprised if you could. Now, name one female character that wasn't entirely heinous and awful.
I can do it pretty easily for Saints Row. That game had pimps. It had prostitutes. It also had female characters that existed as characters.
 
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38. Re: Op Ed Aug 28, 2014, 21:33 Slashman
 
Beamer wrote on Aug 28, 2014, 19:59:
And of course they aren't discussing what doesn't fit their narrative. Because they aren't discussing the current state of games, they're discussing the patterns against women.

The problem a lot of us have is that she keeps choosing games that aren't actually doing what she says they are.

The Witcher 2 had a lot of strong female characters. Several of them more powerful than the male protagonist. But it is set in a world similar to our medieval earth. It wasn't a pleasant place and that is reflected by the sexual unpleasantness and violence that are prevalent in the game.

I don't expect that someone who is arguing for a cause they supposedly feel passionate about is going to be so uninformed. Especially not to the point that they can't produce good examples of what they are arguing about.

And that is exactly what most of us here are angered about. Not just accusations about us, but about the fact that she obviously doesn't even care enough to properly do her homework.

She talks about a scene in grand theft auto where a woman is helpless and at the mercy of two thugs instead of talking about the GTA franchise not having female lead character choices. It's a game about bad people doing bad things. Does she want it censored so only bad things are done to men?

And while I'm at it. Let me address this whole women as helpless objects and prizes for male characters thing. At some point in time, we're all going to have to realize that on average, female humans are physically weaker than male humans. It's genetics and we're not the only species on the planet where one sex is stronger than the other. It kind of stands to reason that if you're portraying evil and twisted men, that these men would take advantage of women because they are physically more powerful than women.

Are we going to pretend that pimps and prostitutes don't exist now as well? Is she arguing that misrepresenting the setting of the gameworld is OK so as not to offend women? In Far Cry 3 a male pimp beats a female prostitute. That's ghastly because it obviously doesn't ever happen in real life right?
 
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37. Re: Op Ed Aug 28, 2014, 20:43 Beamer
 
Julio wrote on Aug 28, 2014, 20:09:
Beamer wrote on Aug 28, 2014, 10:21:
I'm sorry, it just seems like people not comfortable enough with their own masculinity and place in the world to question how it impacts other people.

Nice try Beamer, it's because I'm comfortable with my masculinity that I'm against being neutered by the SJW crowd.

Beamer wrote on Aug 28, 2014, 18:29:
And I don't "judge all male gamers." I'm a male gamer!

I doubt both of those.

If you were comfortable, you'd realize they can't neuter you.
And your last point is clearly trolling. I've been here longer than you, I have more posts than you, and at least as many of yours are about non-game-related things as mine are.
 
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36. Re: Op Ed Aug 28, 2014, 20:09 Julio
 
Beamer wrote on Aug 28, 2014, 10:21:
I'm sorry, it just seems like people not comfortable enough with their own masculinity and place in the world to question how it impacts other people.

Nice try Beamer, it's because I'm comfortable with my masculinity that I'm against being neutered by the SJW crowd.

Beamer wrote on Aug 28, 2014, 18:29:
And I don't "judge all male gamers." I'm a male gamer!

I doubt both of those.
 
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35. Re: Op Ed Aug 28, 2014, 19:59 Beamer
 
William Usher wrote on Aug 28, 2014, 19:49:
Beamer wrote on Aug 28, 2014, 18:29:
Lastly, I fail to see how doing what Anita asks, which means occasionally having a female character to something more than get kidnapped or die, would render gaming "well and truly destroyed." Including female characters that do something other than sleep with the hero or die didn't seem to hurt Captain America 2 or Guardians of the Galaxy, the two biggest movies of the year.

It's already been done.

Prez mentioned Borderlands 2 and I rattled off just a few games off the top of my head that are already doing the opposite of what she's complaining about.

Essentially NO ONE from the other side have said why they don't support the games that fit the narrative they say does not exist in gaming. How is Lilly Looking Through or the Giana Sisters sexist or exclusionary? How don't they fit the feminist agenda? And why aren't they being talked about?

As I mentioned, it's not about game culture at all. We don't see the games that should appeal to the SJWs being promoted by the SJWs.

The real issue is that these games that the SJWs feel will "evolve" or "mature" gaming don't sell that well. So who's fault is it that the games they say don't exist actually do exist and the people with the power to promote them won't?

Relatively, the amount is small.
And of course they aren't discussing what doesn't fit their narrative. Because they aren't discussing the current state of games, they're discussing the patterns against women.
 
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34. Re: Op Ed Aug 28, 2014, 19:49 William Usher
 
Beamer wrote on Aug 28, 2014, 18:29:
Lastly, I fail to see how doing what Anita asks, which means occasionally having a female character to something more than get kidnapped or die, would render gaming "well and truly destroyed." Including female characters that do something other than sleep with the hero or die didn't seem to hurt Captain America 2 or Guardians of the Galaxy, the two biggest movies of the year.

It's already been done.

Prez mentioned Borderlands 2 and I rattled off just a few games off the top of my head that are already doing the opposite of what she's complaining about.

Essentially NO ONE from the other side have said why they don't support the games that fit the narrative they say does not exist in gaming. How is Lilly Looking Through or the Giana Sisters sexist or exclusionary? How don't they fit the feminist agenda? And why aren't they being talked about?

As I mentioned, it's not about game culture at all. We don't see the games that should appeal to the SJWs being promoted by the SJWs.

The real issue is that these games that the SJWs feel will "evolve" or "mature" gaming don't sell that well. So who's fault is it that the games they say don't exist actually do exist and the people with the power to promote them won't?
 
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33. Re: Op Ed Aug 28, 2014, 19:29 Prez
 
No. No she didn't. People keep saying she cares little for video games, yet she keeps playing them.

I KNEW you were going to deny, so I took the time to actually find a video that shows that you are wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RQIpwi-K9s

Go to the 15:20 mark. She says exactly what you say she didn't say.
Again, I don't despise her because she is raising uncomfortable challenges to my male dominance. I burned down that strawman a while ago. I despise her because she is a extremist activist lying phony. Her cause -YOUR cause - is fabricated activism and it is poison.

She does not point out patterns - that's patently ridiculous. She cherrypicks, misrepresents, ignores obvious facts that prove she is full of shit, and deceives a good number of misinformed and misguided souls who want simple decent things like women to simply be treated with the respect all humans deserve. And then she has useful tools like yourself claim that anyone who doesn't buy her line of utter bullshit to be mysogynist. That dog doesn't hunt for me, sorry.

This comment was edited on Aug 28, 2014, 19:37.
 
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32. Re: Op Ed Aug 28, 2014, 19:22 Beamer
 
Prez wrote on Aug 28, 2014, 18:49:
But Anita isn't telling male gamers they're shit. It's what they're hearing, but what she's doing is constructive criticism on a media she cares about that repeatedly has the same flaws.

Firstly, you are incorrect. Anita Sarkeesian has publicly admitted that she cares little for videogames. She is doing this in gaming because it's just a ripe young media still in a formative state that she can infest with her poison and make a fundamental change that may be good for her extremist agenda (and her ample ego) but ultimately be for the worse for gamers. Were she to do this in the movie industry she would be soundly trounced and relegated to the psycho pile. And PLEASE spare me the crap about movies being more progressive than videogames on this because it is absolutely not true.

Secondly, if you really believe that all Sarkeesian wants is the occasional strong female lead then why didn't she crawl back under her rock when the new Tomb Raider came out? I came up with a list of games a while back in which (appropriately clothed) women either share equal roles with men or are the lead, and in 5 minutes I had a list that puts the lie to Sarkeesian's bullshit. She is an extremist activist, not some noble crusader trying to ensure equal treatment for all. Try as you like to sell her cause as one of equality, but it clearly isn't, and more and more gamers are learning the truth about her twisted agenda and soundly rejecting it. It is those gamers you are mad at because they don't buy into hers and your activism.

Just to give ONE example - In Borderlands 2 Lilith is the most powerful character in the game, is a strong leader, and *GASP* actually helps the player save Roland after he is captured. A complete modern role reversal. That's ONE example. No, Sarkeesian is a phony, a liar, and an extremist nutjob who cherrypicks examples, GROSSLY misrepresents them, and then tries to garner sympathy for her agenda disguised as a noble cause from misinformed and misguided useful idiots. Anyone who buys into her idiocy and tries to sell it to me is just ignored until they stop talking stupid.

No. No she didn't. People keep saying she cares little for video games, yet she keeps playing them.

And Anita points out patterns. Just because not every game fits that pattern doesn't mean the pattern doesn't exist. She isn't saying "every game does this." She's saying "many games do this, here are some examples."
So yes, some games do it well. But, relatively, it's a saddeningly small amount. But again, it's false to claim that Anita takes the hard line of "NO VIDEO GAME TREATS WOMEN WELL!"

 
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