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Op Ed

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65 Replies. 4 pages. Viewing page 1.
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65. Re: Op Ed Aug 29, 2014, 17:47 JohnnyRotten
 
Eirikrautha wrote on Aug 24, 2014, 20:33:
The problem that most people have with SJWs is that they demand immediate agreement and obedience to their opinions on all three of these topics. If you agree that there is sexism, but you disagree with the scope of it, you are a sexist. If you agree that there is a larger problem with sexism in the gaming community, but you don't agree with them on how to fix it, then you are a sexist. The SJW has no allies, only sock-puppets or enemies. That's it.

Yahtzee
 
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64. Re: Op Ed Aug 26, 2014, 23:16 Sepharo
 
Jensen wrote on Aug 26, 2014, 20:34:
The video compares the hatred Anita Sarkeesian gets to the hatred Jack Thompson got to basically say "see, it's nothing about her gender, it's just the content."
I'm sorry, but I must have missed the part where Anita tried to sue people and change laws. I also missed the part where she linked specific crimes to video games.

I gave up trying to find the part you're referencing but I would assume that he means the hatred is because gaming is being attacked, not because she's a woman. Had a male made the same videos she did (and the same level of publicity) he would most likely also get hatred from gamers. I doubt he was saying their actions are equivalent because that wouldn't make sense... like you said, suing people and changing laws isn't the same as youtube videos about sexism in mario.
 
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63. Re: Op Ed Aug 26, 2014, 20:34 Jensen
 
The video compares the hatred Anita Sarkeesian gets to the hatred Jack Thompson got to basically say "see, it's nothing about her gender, it's just the content."
I'm sorry, but I must have missed the part where Anita tried to sue people and change laws. I also missed the part where she linked specific crimes to video games.

 
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62. Re: Op Ed Aug 26, 2014, 09:05 Verno
 
mag wrote on Aug 26, 2014, 01:08:
Where Plenty = A Few Loud People on jezebel.com, I imagine. Anyway, my argument is not that they don't exist. It's not even that they are in the (vocal) minority (though they are). It's that you have two camps of people using the same word to mean completely different things. So when you go charging into an argument foaming at the mouth about feminism, social justice, and political correctness, people that have a moderate view of those things are going to think that you are batshit crazy/a dick.

Whatever you want to call it, I'm getting to the point where I'm becoming indifferent to these issues. Too many blog posts, articles and other nonsense essentially trying to guilt me for not doing enough when in reality the people writing are complete hypocrites.

Videogames please. Not feminism, male rights or social justice thanks.
 
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61. Re: Op Ed Aug 26, 2014, 07:55 Prez
 
So when you go charging into an argument foaming at the mouth about feminism, social justice, and political correctness, people that have a moderate view of those things are going to think that you are batshit crazy/a dick.

Not really the case anymore. To a great many moderate people those words have taken on negative connotations. Blame the extremists. Vocal minority or not, they hijacked your causes as they are so apt to do.
 
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60. Re: Op Ed Aug 26, 2014, 01:08 mag
 
Julio wrote on Aug 25, 2014, 18:28:
mag wrote on Aug 25, 2014, 15:20:
So yes, if you are not a person that believes women should be treated equally, you might be a misogynist. The problem is that to other people (mostly, and usually mistakenly, men) 'feminism' is this scary belief that men are evil and should be punished for having penises.

There are plenty of militant feminist women who think they should get advantages over men to 'make up for the past'. And they'd like to treat men as less than equal.

Equal = Fair, however that's generally not good enough for the SJW.

Where Plenty = A Few Loud People on jezebel.com, I imagine. Anyway, my argument is not that they don't exist. It's not even that they are in the (vocal) minority (though they are). It's that you have two camps of people using the same word to mean completely different things. So when you go charging into an argument foaming at the mouth about feminism, social justice, and political correctness, people that have a moderate view of those things are going to think that you are batshit crazy/a dick.
 
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59. Re: Op Ed Aug 25, 2014, 20:42 Burrito of Peace
 
This is one of the most ridiculous non-issues to ever crop up. This is the very epitome of first world problems. What's next? Complaining about subversive racism because your cell phone doesn't come in your favorite color?  
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58. Re: Op Ed Aug 25, 2014, 18:35 eRe4s3r
 
Cpmartins wrote on Aug 24, 2014, 14:33:
No, "Sexism is not a problem" exists because of SJW.

QFT... keep it like Caesar.... Embrace, extend, and exterminate.
 
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57. Re: Op Ed Aug 25, 2014, 18:28 Julio
 
mag wrote on Aug 25, 2014, 15:20:
So yes, if you are not a person that believes women should be treated equally, you might be a misogynist. The problem is that to other people (mostly, and usually mistakenly, men) 'feminism' is this scary belief that men are evil and should be punished for having penises.

There are plenty of militant feminist women who think they should get advantages over men to 'make up for the past'. And they'd like to treat men as less than equal.

Equal = Fair, however that's generally not good enough for the SJW.
 
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56. Re: Op Ed Aug 25, 2014, 16:59 Prez
 
I think you illustrated the phenomenon I was trying to convey in which extremists hijack a cause and ruin it for the ones who genuinely meant well in the beginning. 'Feminism' is now synonymous with belligerent anti-masculinism thanks to the extremists.  
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55. Re: Op Ed Aug 25, 2014, 15:20 mag
 
Prez wrote on Aug 25, 2014, 13:04:
Personally I don't like the term "social justice" for the same reason I don't like people like Sarkeesian and Quinn. They take a legitmate issue and agendize it to the point that the goal of a movement and/or meaning of a term mutates into something it was never intended to be. I like the idea of equal justice and treatment for everyone in society. But the term "social justice" has been used and abused by the "Social Justice Warriors" to the point that it has become a negative term for many. That's why it really fits in my mind. They don't stand for actual social justice. They satnd for their own warped vision of what they think justice should be.

The "If your not a feminist you're a misogynist" quote comes to mind.

People get bent so out of shape about 'feminism' without defining terms. For most people that would call themselves feminists, feminism is the belief that women should be treated equally to men--and yes, it's feminism and not 'personism' because in most (not all) situations, it's women that are marginalized.

So yes, if you are not a person that believes women should be treated equally, you might be a misogynist. The problem is that to other people (mostly, and usually mistakenly, men) 'feminism' is this scary belief that men are evil and should be punished for having penises.
 
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54. Re: Op Ed Aug 25, 2014, 13:04 Prez
 
Personally I don't like the term "social justice" for the same reason I don't like people like Sarkeesian and Quinn. They take a legitmate issue and agendize it to the point that the goal of a movement and/or meaning of a term mutates into something it was never intended to be. I like the idea of equal justice and treatment for everyone in society. But the term "social justice" has been used and abused by the "Social Justice Warriors" to the point that it has become a negative term for many. That's why it really fits in my mind. They don't stand for actual social justice. They satnd for their own warped vision of what they think justice should be.

The "If your not a feminist you're a misogynist" quote comes to mind.
 
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
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53. Re: Op Ed Aug 25, 2014, 11:06 Beamer
 
ASeven wrote on Aug 25, 2014, 06:14:
Beamer wrote on Aug 24, 2014, 21:12:
So, something happening in someone's hobby isn't a problem because there are worse things happening across the globe?

Right. ASeven, if I ever see you whine about anything, like how you did when the NSA was found to target your country, I'll remind you that being monitored by the US government is a non-issue, because there are people being drone-killed by it. Really, ASeven, any time you ever complained about the NSA spying on you it was a wasted breath.

And don't you dare say they're both problems, because having your cell phone call monitored is nothing compared to being blown up.
And, of course, if you're not actively shooting down those drones, dedicating your life to it, you can't even complain because, really, what are you doing?

This is one of the most disgusting, repugnant and intellectually dishonest posts ever made on Blues. It's amazing how you create a strawman so unashamedly and can keep inferring that sexism in gaming is a problem as important as women getting raped, killed, arrested due to belief systems or traditional societal values, it's just repugnant the way you do it. You and your group does a disservice to women in the world, real women who are in real suffering, by diverting the attention of people from real problems to these non-issues that only promote censorship.

It's even more repugnant that you dare to compare sexism in gaming to the NSA scandal, it seems you truly suffer from cognitive dissonance.

I'm done with you on this thread, I cannot discuss to someone who is so intellectually dishonest as you are to the point of comparing real world problems, real problems that affect everyone in a very negative way, to sexism in gaming, a made up problem that affects nobody other than those pushing for this agenda of censorship.

It's not a strawman, it's the exact argument you made. "This thing over hear isn't even a problem because that thing over there, which is tangentially related, is significantly more serious, even though it doesn't involve a single person the first problem does."

 
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52. Re: Op Ed Aug 25, 2014, 09:13 Parallax Abstraction
 
The biggest issue I have with those who soapbox about all the harm the supposedly rampant sexism and misogyny in video games cause is that the implication is that by witnessing even mildly sexist behaviour, it influences the viewer to be more sexist. Many of the same people on said soapboxes also crusaded against government attempts to regulate violent video games because there is no conclusive evidence whatsoever that violent games make players more violent. I've witnessed plenty of violence and sexism in games and I am not a violent person and I have nothing but respect for good women, the same as I have respect for good men. I have a real problem with the argument that games don't make people violent but they do make people sexist, despite there being even less evidence to back up that point. I'm not saying this is an excuse to ramp up sexist behaviours in games or that there isn't room for improvement (frankly, I think Call of Duty could do a way better job of how it tells violent stories too) but I take real exception to it being insinuated that I'm so stupid and impressionable that I'm going to suddenly start hating women because I played a game where not every female character is portrayed in someone's idealised fashion.

This comment was edited on Aug 25, 2014, 09:36.
 
Parallax Abstraction
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51. Re: Op Ed Aug 25, 2014, 07:18 InBlack
 
mag wrote on Aug 25, 2014, 04:50:
Parallax Abstraction wrote on Aug 24, 2014, 22:28:
I have been called a bigot and a misogynist online ... for pointing out that Anita Sarkeesian's video have factual errors in them ... I've also been called an SJW (actually I think it was a feminazi) on my YouTube channel when I pointed out some of the really creepy advances your character in the Sega CD game Snatcher makes towards several women characters (that comment was moderated so it no longer exists.)

Behold, the problem with labels. SJW might be the dumbest slur people have come up with yet. Stop using it. It's not helping anyone.

Agreed. A Feminazi? Ok thats fucked up. But Social Justice Warrior? Who came up with that one? Only right-winged nutjobs (or left-wing crusaders) could think of social justice in derrogative terms. It's comic book stuff. Its a bird, its a plane. No, its Social Justice Warrior!!!

This comment was edited on Aug 25, 2014, 07:42.
 
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50. Re: Op Ed Aug 25, 2014, 06:15 atomicfro
 
Here are some of my not so organized thoughts on the matter I thought might add to the discussion:

In the bigger picture, is sexism in video games a greater problem than say sexism in the general culture proper? Do more acts of sexism occur during a game of Grand Theft Auto than what occurs in your average American high school every day? Do more acts of sexism occur in World of Warcraft than what occurs in bars and pubs across the globe? Are there more sexists on a single Counter Strike server than in your average bowling alley? That's not to excuse acts of genuine sexism that occurs in out hobby, but why pick on us specifically?

The big question is do sexists represent a larger percentage of the gaming population than that of the general population "on" the internet. If Anita Sarkeesian is really "spending" 30k for one of those click bait videos with donation money, thats something she should research.

Everyone knows there is no such thing as gaming "journalism." I really think that aspect of all this is a non-issue. We all know they are all just advertiser mouth pieces. And the articles that aren't blatant advertising, really shouldn't be held to any high regard to that of some forgotten blog post lost in the vastness that is the internet. If we have a problem with that, then we need to start paying for things instead of letting advertisers pay for it for us.

Is sexism an issue in gaming? Sure it is. I wouldn't want my daughter playing an online game getting the harassment that can occur. That's a side effect of anonymity. The punks can get away with it without getting punched in the face. But, really, are they the majority or a very vocal minority, the bad apples that ruin it for the rest of us?

For the lot of us 30 somethings on this board, gaming isn't so much a hobby, I would say, than our chosen form of escape. And most of the time its a private, and its no one's business what we do behind closed doors as long as its not hurting anyone else. We don't need outsiders telling us our hobby is evil. What we do in a game is not indicative of our beliefs or actions in the real world.

These SJW types are completely using us. If you want to manipulate a bunch of white knights, where is there a more concentrated source than gaming? They are getting on their soap boxes telling us they feel oppressed and of course we want to help them. Once they have our attention, they have a large laundry list of reasons we should feel guilt, and then they plea to that guilt for money or favors. Once that dries up, they pull the victim card.

Zoe was called out and now she is done. But, in the big scheme of things, she was a no body. Sure she has a "game" on steam, I can't say I've ever accomplished such a feat, but its always going to be tainted by her social justice lies and manipulation, and the use of a public figure's suicide for advertising.

Her ousting is casting more scrutiny on other SJW, and really I think the best tactic is to ignore them and let this dark chapter in gaming come to a close. Stop giving them a soap box, stop talking about them. If you want to have a discussion about fixing some of the social issues that are part of gaming, go right ahead. But we don't need these people to make us feel guilty for wanting to save the princess (who just so happens to be in the next castle) and using that guilt as click bait.
 
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49. Re: Op Ed Aug 25, 2014, 06:14 ASeven
 
Beamer wrote on Aug 24, 2014, 21:12:
So, something happening in someone's hobby isn't a problem because there are worse things happening across the globe?

Right. ASeven, if I ever see you whine about anything, like how you did when the NSA was found to target your country, I'll remind you that being monitored by the US government is a non-issue, because there are people being drone-killed by it. Really, ASeven, any time you ever complained about the NSA spying on you it was a wasted breath.

And don't you dare say they're both problems, because having your cell phone call monitored is nothing compared to being blown up.
And, of course, if you're not actively shooting down those drones, dedicating your life to it, you can't even complain because, really, what are you doing?

This is one of the most disgusting, repugnant and intellectually dishonest posts ever made on Blues. It's amazing how you create a strawman so unashamedly and can keep inferring that sexism in gaming is a problem as important as women getting raped, killed, arrested due to belief systems or traditional societal values, it's just repugnant the way you do it. You and your group does a disservice to women in the world, real women who are in real suffering, by diverting the attention of people from real problems to these non-issues that only promote censorship.

It's even more repugnant that you dare to compare sexism in gaming to the NSA scandal, it seems you truly suffer from cognitive dissonance.

I'm done with you on this thread, I cannot discuss to someone who is so intellectually dishonest as you are to the point of comparing real world problems, real problems that affect everyone in a very negative way, to sexism in gaming, a made up problem that affects nobody other than those pushing for this agenda of censorship.
 
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48. Re: Op Ed Aug 25, 2014, 04:50 mag
 
Parallax Abstraction wrote on Aug 24, 2014, 22:28:
I have been called a bigot and a misogynist online ... for pointing out that Anita Sarkeesian's video have factual errors in them ... I've also been called an SJW (actually I think it was a feminazi) on my YouTube channel when I pointed out some of the really creepy advances your character in the Sega CD game Snatcher makes towards several women characters (that comment was moderated so it no longer exists.)

Behold, the problem with labels. SJW might be the dumbest slur people have come up with yet. Stop using it. It's not helping anyone.
 
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47. Re: Out of the Blue Aug 25, 2014, 04:41 InBlack
 
I used to call people "camping whores" in Quake all the time. Does that make me a sexist misogynist??

(Please note that a whore can be both male and female)
 
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46. Re: Out of the Blue Aug 25, 2014, 04:37 Mashiki Amiketo
 
Eirikrautha wrote on Aug 24, 2014, 20:33:
If SJWs were about giving voice to the voiceless, they'd be untouchable. But they're not. They're about ruthlessly bullying and silencing anyone that even slightly disagrees, all while demanding they themselves be heard. Which is why more and more people are ignoring them...
Nailed it. I grant you 6 internets of your choice.
 
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