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Saturday Metaverse

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29. Re: Saturday Metaverse Aug 3, 2014, 13:50 Beamer
 
jdreyer wrote on Aug 3, 2014, 05:15:
Beamer wrote on Aug 2, 2014, 23:19:
[

I'd wager that site is the key to social life for these kids. Opting out is admitting you're a lost cause. But I know no one this age, so just a guess.

Because before that site kids had no social life?

Before that kids hung out at malls or strip malls. Have you been to one lately? The kids aren't there nearly as much. Mall revenues are plummeting in part because kids don't go there and hang out. Hell, even the percentage of kids with driver's license is falling, because having a car is no longer as important to kids.

But this doesn't really matter much to the point. It doesn't matter what kids were doing before an app like this, it matters what kids are doing with it. If almost every HS kid is using this as their primary means of socializing, then opting out is opting out of a social life. Again, it's like if you were a kid in the 80s or 90s and you got bullied at the mall, so you decided to stop going to the mall. Great, but if all your friends are at the mall, then what?
 
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28. Re: Saturday Metaverse Aug 3, 2014, 13:42 eRe4s3r
 
jdreyer wrote on Aug 3, 2014, 05:29:
eRe4s3r wrote on Aug 3, 2014, 01:20:
That's a common phenomena and directly attributable to the school system and a societies values... in the end you want people not to do what your cousins do, you have to offer them a future that consists of more than just working and family. Let's face it, life is not there to be working 40 years of it and then when you are old and fucked up trying to enjoy life with your broken down and sick or just plain OLD body.
Well, that's what PC games are for.

This entire society actually makes me sick. But it seems we are on a good way to a 3rd world war anyway.
Well, I'd hardly say that. The number of wars, and deaths during such wars have been in steady decline in the past 100 years. I used to live across the river from the largest sub base and sub factory in the world. Submarines, being the most difficult to track and destroy part of the nuclear triad meant that said sub base was target number one, even moreso than Washington DC. Certainly the Soviets had dozens of nukes pointed at this single city, a mere 3 miles as the crow flew from my house. How many days did I awake to the sun streaming threw my window into my face dreaming that the USSR had just nuked the base and I was ten seconds from incineration? Dozens and dozens and dozens. Even with Putin's regional aggression, I feel much safer today. I don't live near that sub base any longer, but I do now live only a few miles from US Pacific Command, a Naval base full of top of the line US Naval vessels. Certainly Russia still has nukes pointed here, but I feel much safer than I did 20 or 30 years ago.

Well, for me Poland is a direct neighbor, and when we have 8 NATO training deployments scheduled in a month that previously had 1 ! and evidence that Russia is moving heavy tank, AA and artillery brigades to the borders to invade the East Ukraine things look slightly more worrisome. What you call regional aggression is directly bordering the EU. And Putin is the type who'd invade the Ukraine with 0 flinching... if he actually did that we'd have a cold war deluxe. Nato would be forced to employ it's entire strength* to the EU borders with Russia because the close countries would be screaming bloody murder for protection.

*And since NATO was close to being dismantled, this means EU as a whole is gonna have to re-arm itself... that's not a way to peace....
 
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27. Re: Saturday Metaverse Aug 3, 2014, 10:25 Redmask
 
Creston wrote on Aug 3, 2014, 00:47:
Okay, so by that reasoning, should every new communications app from now on have some sort of anti-bullying feature? If so, should paper have an anti-bullying feature?

No and I wasn't making that argument. Bullying can be addressed in other ways, apps like this to need to be taken into account by parents and schools though as where its taking place is very relevant.
 
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26. Re: Saturday Metaverse Aug 3, 2014, 05:35 jdreyer
 
Mashiki Amiketo wrote on Aug 2, 2014, 22:52:
Well, I have two cousins who were brought up that way. Where are they now? Sitting at their parents home, in their 30's never had a job, afraid of going outside, and basically hiding from society.

So yeah, my argument basically boils down to: The world is a nasty place, you have to face it sometime.

I'd say there's a balance between letting vulnerable teens fend for themselves becoming Darwin award winners, and overprotecting them. As for your cousins, I'd say that's more of a parenting failure than a societal or educational one.
 
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25. Re: Saturday Metaverse Aug 3, 2014, 05:29 jdreyer
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Aug 3, 2014, 01:20:
That's a common phenomena and directly attributable to the school system and a societies values... in the end you want people not to do what your cousins do, you have to offer them a future that consists of more than just working and family. Let's face it, life is not there to be working 40 years of it and then when you are old and fucked up trying to enjoy life with your broken down and sick or just plain OLD body.
Well, that's what PC games are for.

This entire society actually makes me sick. But it seems we are on a good way to a 3rd world war anyway.
Well, I'd hardly say that. The number of wars, and deaths during such wars have been in steady decline in the past 100 years. I used to live across the river from the largest sub base and sub factory in the world. Submarines, being the most difficult to track and destroy part of the nuclear triad meant that said sub base was target number one, even moreso than Washington DC. Certainly the Soviets had dozens of nukes pointed at this single city, a mere 3 miles as the crow flew from my house. How many days did I awake to the sun streaming threw my window into my face dreaming that the USSR had just nuked the base and I was ten seconds from incineration? Dozens and dozens and dozens. Even with Putin's regional aggression, I feel much safer today. I don't live near that sub base any longer, but I do now live only a few miles from US Pacific Command, a Naval base full of top of the line US Naval vessels. Certainly Russia still has nukes pointed here, but I feel much safer than I did 20 or 30 years ago.

This comment was edited on Aug 3, 2014, 05:44.
 
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24. Re: Saturday Metaverse Aug 3, 2014, 05:15 jdreyer
 
Beamer wrote on Aug 2, 2014, 23:19:
[

I'd wager that site is the key to social life for these kids. Opting out is admitting you're a lost cause. But I know no one this age, so just a guess.

Because before that site kids had no social life?
 
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23. No subject Aug 3, 2014, 05:13 Mashiki Amiketo
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Aug 3, 2014, 01:20:
That's a common phenomena and directly attributable to the school system and a societies values... in the end you want people not to do what your cousins do, you have to offer them a future that consists of more than just working and family. Let's face it, life is not there to be working 40 years of it and then when you are old and fucked up trying to enjoy life with your broken down and sick or just plain OLD body.

This entire society actually makes me sick. But it seems we are on a good way to a 3rd world war anyway.

See this is the whole thing, you want them to do something other than being a shut in. But I just posted that kids need to realize that the world isn't a comfy little place. When parents, school, and society teach them that they should be coddled, they have no idea what's in store for them out there in the real world. But until we hit a point where "working is optional" your idea won't work.
 
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and it is always wrong."
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22. Re: Saturday Metaverse Aug 3, 2014, 02:35 eRe4s3r
 
Burrito of Peace wrote on Aug 3, 2014, 01:22:
eRe4s3r wrote on Aug 2, 2014, 19:25:
Because it's the job of a society to protect the weakest... what kind of argument is "then don't use it" .. that can only come from someone with ZERO understanding of children. If that kinda logic would work on them the world would be a better place indeed....

Given that logic, we should outright ban all forms and places of communication because they have the potential to be used by a small group of people to harass other people.

Which is in fact something I'd advocate, but only for children.

Surely I mentioned before that I hate children? But more than children I hate mobbing. And children that mob other children should imo be punished heavily. Guantanamo etc.
 
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21. Re: Saturday Metaverse Aug 3, 2014, 01:22 Burrito of Peace
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Aug 2, 2014, 19:25:
Because it's the job of a society to protect the weakest... what kind of argument is "then don't use it" .. that can only come from someone with ZERO understanding of children. If that kinda logic would work on them the world would be a better place indeed....

Given that logic, we should outright ban all forms and places of communication because they have the potential to be used by a small group of people to harass other people.

You could say "But, Burrito, the very nature of being anonymous makes it more likely to be used to harass children than a different medium". With a small amount of planning and effort, ANY type of communication transmission device can be used anonymously. Christ, the kids that I mentor know about anonymizing proxies, Tor and Tails and they're 14 year old freshmen!
 
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20. Re: Saturday Metaverse Aug 3, 2014, 01:20 eRe4s3r
 
Mashiki Amiketo wrote on Aug 2, 2014, 22:52:
Well, I have two cousins who were brought up that way. Where are they now? Sitting at their parents home, in their 30's never had a job, afraid of going outside, and basically hiding from society.

So yeah, my argument basically boils down to: The world is a nasty place, you have to face it sometime.

That's a common phenomena and directly attributable to the school system and a societies values... in the end you want people not to do what your cousins do, you have to offer them a future that consists of more than just working and family. Let's face it, life is not there to be working 40 years of it and then when you are old and fucked up trying to enjoy life with your broken down and sick or just plain OLD body.

This entire society actually makes me sick. But it seems we are on a good way to a 3rd world war anyway.
 
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19. Re: Saturday Metaverse Aug 3, 2014, 01:13 Sepharo
 
Yeah I recognize the problem but I also don't think anything should be done beyond parental and school actions.

Mail, message boards, video sites, torrent networks, whatever... shouldn't be responsible for the actions of their users. Though they should comply with legal requests from law enforcement targeting specific individuals.
 
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18. Re: Saturday Metaverse Aug 3, 2014, 00:47 Creston
 
Redmask wrote on Aug 3, 2014, 00:31:
You said they should not sign up and ignore it, I'm saying that doesn't work as Sepharo also noted. Yes there are other ways to do the same thing but this by design is much easier.

Okay, so by that reasoning, should every new communications app from now on have some sort of anti-bullying feature? If so, should paper have an anti-bullying feature?

I have nothing against the service, just pointing that out.

I'm kind of curious what people are actually even asking for. I guess for Secret to no longer be anonymous, even though that's apparently the app's entire Raison d'ętre?

Kids are cruel and will be that way with or without this app. This app just makes it a bit easier to do it. There's no big takeaway or solution here other than the service desperately needing real PR.

Fair enough.
 
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17. Re: Saturday Metaverse Aug 3, 2014, 00:36 HoSpanky
 
This sort of site very much appeals to horrible kids who have no rage filter. Opting to NOT use that site doesn't help; it simply blindsides that kid even more. Why is everyone pointing and snickering at me? Eventually that kid finds out someone said he/she "loves taking it up the ass, and makes out with her mother!". Adults find that ridiculous, but school kids eat it up, thy WANT to believe someone who is already socially awkward is a terrible sexual deviant, or is physically misshapen "I saw it in the gym shower!". Social status is EVERYTHING to kids. There is literally nothing higher on their priority list. Graduating/college/work isn't even on the radar. Long term consequences don't matter.

With no "source", a site like that means they can post absurd things on there and not worry about any repercussions. It's a Mean Girl wet dream.
 
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16. Re: Saturday Metaverse Aug 3, 2014, 00:31 Redmask
 
Creston wrote on Aug 3, 2014, 00:12:
This is no different from any of a dozen other applications that they use. Kids will gossip/bully other kids behind their backs in real life, they'll sign up with a fake FB account and do it, etc. It's not as if this Secret app is suddenly creating an entirely new world of bullying heretofore unseen.

You said they should not sign up and ignore it, I'm saying that doesn't work as Sepharo also noted. Yes there are other ways to do the same thing but this by design is much easier. I have nothing against the service, just pointing that out.

Kids are cruel and will be that way with or without this app. This app just makes it a bit easier to do it. There's no big takeaway or solution here other than the service desperately needing real PR.
 
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15. Re: Saturday Metaverse Aug 3, 2014, 00:12 Creston
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Aug 2, 2014, 19:25:
Because it's the job of a society to protect the weakest... what kind of argument is "then don't use it" .. that can only come from someone with ZERO understanding of children. If that kinda logic would work on them the world would be a better place indeed....

I have plenty of understanding of children, seeing as how I have taught teenagers for nearly ten years. It's staggering how the simplest solutions never seem to occur to them.

Teen: "I'm worried that if I send a stranger a picture of myself through Snapchat, they'll do something so they can keep the picture forever!"

Me: "So don't send them any pictures."

Teen: *vapid blank look*

Me: *swallows the suggestions to not use Snapchat to begin with.*

God forbid if you're not on ALL the same apps as everyone else is, because OH EM GEE THAT WOULD BE, LIKE, SO LAME.



Redmask wrote on Aug 2, 2014, 20:04:
People can still use the app to spread information about you to others is the issue people are having. The anonymous nature of it makes it more likely for that information to be negative. I don't think its a big deal but any time you say the word bully people get all in a huff.

This is no different from any of a dozen other applications that they use. Kids will gossip/bully other kids behind their backs in real life, they'll sign up with a fake FB account and do it, etc. It's not as if this Secret app is suddenly creating an entirely new world of bullying heretofore unseen.

I don't agree with bullying, btw, but this whole "OMG THE GUY WHO MADE SECRET WANTS TEENAGERS TO KILL THEMSELVES!!!!!! WAAAAAH" hysterical insanity is fucking ludicrous.



 
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14. Re: Saturday Metaverse Aug 2, 2014, 23:52 Sepharo
 
Technology/Internet crazes sweep through schools. Stuff was going "viral" there before the internet. If most, if not all, of the kids are using Secret then simply not looking at it would not be enough. Bullies need an audience, which is easy on the internet, and the victim doesn't need to be present.  
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13. Re: Saturday Metaverse Aug 2, 2014, 23:19 Beamer
 
Prez wrote on Aug 2, 2014, 23:11:
Well to me there's a difference between being bullied at school, where the law says you have to be if your a teen, and being bullied on a site that you can voluntarily sign up for and leave as you please. I have a hard time understanding why anyone, young or old, would opt to allow themselves to be harassed and badgered instead of just leaving a place like Secret. School is another matter - the children don't have a choice whether or not to go.

I'd wager that site is the key to social life for these kids. Opting out is admitting you're a lost cause. But I know no one this age, so just a guess.
 
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http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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12. Re: Saturday Metaverse Aug 2, 2014, 23:11 Prez
 
Well to me there's a difference between being bullied at school, where the law says you have to be if your a teen, and being bullied on a site that you can voluntarily sign up for and leave as you please. I have a hard time understanding why anyone, young or old, would opt to allow themselves to be harassed and badgered instead of just leaving a place like Secret. School is another matter - the children don't have a choice whether or not to go.  
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11. No subject Aug 2, 2014, 22:52 Mashiki Amiketo
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Aug 2, 2014, 22:20:
Your argument is basically "children are like adults and should learn like adults" which is absurd. I won't even comment further on that To me, children are worth to be protected from the evil asshole world. Because a child committing suicide may really not see a way out. Something an adult with a goal in life might see different. The real problem is that schools pump out brain-dead zombies who think working is the only reason of existence for a human being. And those same people vote the radical batshit insane crazies in power.

So basically, when can we nuke this planet? ^^
Well, I have two cousins who were brought up that way. Where are they now? Sitting at their parents home, in their 30's never had a job, afraid of going outside, and basically hiding from society.

So yeah, my argument basically boils down to: The world is a nasty place, you have to face it sometime.
 
--
"For every human problem,
there is a neat, simple solution;
and it is always wrong."
--H.L. Mencken
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10. Re: Saturday Metaverse Aug 2, 2014, 22:20 eRe4s3r
 
Mashiki Amiketo wrote on Aug 2, 2014, 21:13:
eRe4s3r wrote on Aug 2, 2014, 19:25:
Because it's the job of a society to protect the weakest... what kind of argument is "then don't use it" .. that can only come from someone with ZERO understanding of children. If that kinda logic would work on them the world would be a better place indeed....

Really? I thought it was the idea of learning to stand up on your own, and make important life decisions and being able to grow that was important. But I guess if you want to coddle people, and bury them in safety blankets. Then one day they can experience the whole evil, nasty, asshole world and then get triggered by it, that's okay too.

Your argument is basically "children are like adults and should learn like adults" which is absurd. I won't even comment further on that To me, children are worth to be protected from the evil asshole world. Because a child committing suicide may really not see a way out. Something an adult with a goal in life might see different. The real problem is that schools pump out brain-dead zombies who think working is the only reason of existence for a human being. And those same people vote the radical batshit insane crazies in power.

So basically, when can we nuke this planet? ^^
 
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