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Op Ed

Polygon - No skin thick enough- The daily harassment of women in the game industry.
The problem with sharing these stories in broad terms is that people think men and women receive the same harassment online. They do not. Iím not writing this piece to evoke your sympathy. Iím writing to share with you what prominent, successful women in the industry experience, in their own words.

Rock, Paper, Shotgun - Game Names Are Almost Universally Terrible.
Seriously itís not that hard why are you all so bad at this aauuugh.

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117 Replies. 6 pages. Viewing page 1.
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117. Re: Op Ed Jul 28, 2014, 15:27 Verno
 
Somehow these threads always peter out like this

Looking forward to the next Polygon gender wars article to rinse and repeat.
 
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116. Re: Op Ed Jul 28, 2014, 15:04 Redmask
 
Stormsinger wrote on Jul 28, 2014, 13:10:
You really are determined to be both offended and offensive, aren't you?

Ok mr 'i dont give a flying fuck'.
 
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115. Re: Op Ed Jul 28, 2014, 13:10 Stormsinger
 
Redmask wrote on Jul 27, 2014, 22:29:
Stormsinger wrote on Jul 27, 2014, 22:16:
Well then, by all means abandon the field. I'm sure you'll be much more effective in helping by doing nothing. Those trolls will realize on their own just how destructive they are...heaven forbid anyone disagree with you, or quote you.

I wasn't seeking your permission. You seem like the kind of person we were referring to anyway.
You really are determined to be both offended and offensive, aren't you?
 
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114. Re: Op Ed Jul 27, 2014, 22:29 Redmask
 
Stormsinger wrote on Jul 27, 2014, 22:16:
Well then, by all means abandon the field. I'm sure you'll be much more effective in helping by doing nothing. Those trolls will realize on their own just how destructive they are...heaven forbid anyone disagree with you, or quote you.

I wasn't seeking your permission. You seem like the kind of person we were referring to anyway.
 
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113. Re: Op Ed Jul 27, 2014, 22:16 Stormsinger
 
Redmask wrote on Jul 27, 2014, 19:16:
Stormsinger wrote on Jul 27, 2014, 18:44:
Since when is "there's no point in even having the discussion" a point in the middle? That's as far out to the extreme as you can get...it's the same as saying, there is no issue.

You can't say that because it makes it clear you didn't actually -read- this specific article. Perhaps you scanned the words, but you obviously didn't make any attempt to understand what was being said.

That quote isn't mine, it's NKDs. I was pretty clear in my complaints that any debate feels like moderate discourse is shut out, case in point this article had comments locked when I tried post there. That's how I feel about you quoting my responses by the way.

Well then, by all means abandon the field. I'm sure you'll be much more effective in helping by doing nothing. Those trolls will realize on their own just how destructive they are...heaven forbid anyone disagree with you, or quote you.
 
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112. Re: Op Ed Jul 27, 2014, 19:16 Redmask
 
Stormsinger wrote on Jul 27, 2014, 18:44:
Since when is "there's no point in even having the discussion" a point in the middle? That's as far out to the extreme as you can get...it's the same as saying, there is no issue.

You can't say that because it makes it clear you didn't actually -read- this specific article. Perhaps you scanned the words, but you obviously didn't make any attempt to understand what was being said.

That quote isn't mine, it's NKDs. I was pretty clear in my complaints that any debate feels like moderate discourse is shut out, case in point this article had comments locked when I tried post there. That's how I feel about you quoting my responses by the way.
 
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111. Re: Op Ed Jul 27, 2014, 18:44 Stormsinger
 
Redmask wrote on Jul 27, 2014, 15:43:
Stormsinger wrote on Jul 27, 2014, 12:29:
I don't give a flying fuck how badly someone else mistreated you in the past, that doesn't justify a claim of "there's no point in even having the discussion anymore".

Yep you're all about open discussion alright. Why are people sharing their own experiences? This isn't the first article johnny moderator, people are talking the whole issue and not just this singular one.

No one can make any point in the middle without being attacked by either side, there are several examples in this topic. I can't say 'that article seems one sided and doesn't really explore the issue in depth in a way that actually promotes open discussion' because then I'm a woman bashing MRA guy.

Since when is "there's no point in even having the discussion" a point in the middle? That's as far out to the extreme as you can get...it's the same as saying, there is no issue.

And it's not that saying 'that article seems one sided and doesn't really explore the issue in depth in a way that actually promotes open discussion' makes you a "woman bashing MRA guy". You can't say that because it makes it clear you didn't actually -read- this specific article. Perhaps you scanned the words, but you obviously didn't make any attempt to understand what was being said.
 
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110. Re: Op Ed Jul 27, 2014, 15:43 Redmask
 
Stormsinger wrote on Jul 27, 2014, 12:29:
I don't give a flying fuck how badly someone else mistreated you in the past, that doesn't justify a claim of "there's no point in even having the discussion anymore".

Yep you're all about open discussion alright. Why are people sharing their own experiences? This isn't the first article johnny moderator, people are talking the whole issue and not just this singular one.

No one can make any point in the middle without being attacked by either side, there are several examples in this topic. I can't say 'that article seems one sided and doesn't really explore the issue in depth in a way that actually promotes open discussion' because then I'm a woman bashing MRA guy.

 
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109. Re: Op Ed Jul 27, 2014, 12:29 Stormsinger
 
Redmask wrote on Jul 27, 2014, 01:21:
NKD wrote on Jul 24, 2014, 17:38:
Just listened to that bit from TB, and he's really right on there. There's no point in even having the discussion anymore. The douchebags and the Tumblr SJWs can just fight it out amongst each other and accomplish nothing. Those of us who are reasonable, rational human beings are giving up on the subject.

That's really the problem with these topics in general, no middle ground or room to disagree about a specific idea. Everyone has to pick a side as if we're playing a really dumb sport. I had to scuttle a friendship with someone who turned into a pretty militant feminist. Nothing was ever good enough for her and I tired quickly of even the slightest concession being met with hostility and a rant about how men have oppressed them since times of yore. If I sympathized I was being patronizing. If I tried to make any concessions or identify with the problems I was just a man and part of the problem, how could I understand the plight of women? If I tried to point out any flaws or logical problems in her rhetoric suddenly I was a woman basher.

These people don't know they are their own worst enemy.

I'm still having problems understanding why so many of you are arguing points that have -nothing- to do with this article, as justifications for not reading or discussing the article. I don't give a flying fuck how badly someone else mistreated you in the past, that doesn't justify a claim of "there's no point in even having the discussion anymore". I agree there's little to be gained by discussing the situation with the fanatics on either side. But fanatics of any stripe are rarely interested in discussion (it's hardly specific to this issue)...and the vast majority of people don't fall into those groups, so there are plenty of people who will have actual discussions. The trolls from both sides will try to convince you to drop it, that it (or you) are not fit for discussion. Fuck them...the minute they make that claim, they've put themselves clearly on the side of making the issue worse, and they've declared they don't give a shit about solving it.

This article did and said nothing to justify a refusal to read or discuss it. Abandoning discussion altogether -makes- you a part of the problem, just as much as making the rape and death threats do, just as much as blowing off supporters simply due to their gender does. You cannot improve a situation if you won't even talk about it.

I think this says it better than I could: "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" -- disputed sources
 
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108. Re: Op Ed Jul 27, 2014, 11:46 Quboid
 
On Yahtzee's Let's Drown Out series (him from Zero Punctuation, he does a weekly Let's Play / Podcast hybrid) there's a guy called Gabe who refers to the "someone covered in shit" principle. This is where somebody is making an excellent case for something with a compelling argument really getting people thinking - only for someone covered in shit to stand up beside them and shout "I agree!", derailing the conversation and rendering the argument ineffectual.

That's what these MRA pricks and their ilk are, people covered in shit. Hiding your sexism behind feminism? You're a person covered in shit.

I must have missed that thread, Beamer, although I doubt I'm any worse off for having done so. Blocking someone because you disagree with them is weak but blocking them for how they said it is more understandable, which I think is what you're implying.
 
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- Quboid
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107. Re: Op Ed Jul 27, 2014, 01:21 Redmask
 
NKD wrote on Jul 24, 2014, 17:38:
Just listened to that bit from TB, and he's really right on there. There's no point in even having the discussion anymore. The douchebags and the Tumblr SJWs can just fight it out amongst each other and accomplish nothing. Those of us who are reasonable, rational human beings are giving up on the subject.

That's really the problem with these topics in general, no middle ground or room to disagree about a specific idea. Everyone has to pick a side as if we're playing a really dumb sport. I had to scuttle a friendship with someone who turned into a pretty militant feminist. Nothing was ever good enough for her and I tired quickly of even the slightest concession being met with hostility and a rant about how men have oppressed them since times of yore. If I sympathized I was being patronizing. If I tried to make any concessions or identify with the problems I was just a man and part of the problem, how could I understand the plight of women? If I tried to point out any flaws or logical problems in her rhetoric suddenly I was a woman basher.

These people don't know they are their own worst enemy.
 
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106. Re: Op Ed Jul 26, 2014, 23:52 Verno
 
yuastnav wrote on Jul 26, 2014, 17:58:
This whole business of blocking someone because you got really emotional over something that person said is silly.

Err no it's not, people often do the same thing with others who annoy them in real life. This isn't work, people don't need to get along with every other user and its not realistic to expect that. I only have 2 people on my block list and frankly the site reading experience is much more enjoyable this way. There are some people that have nothing useful to offer or never concede a point and life is too short to waste time with it. There are other times where you know you just can't get along with someone and want to spare everyone else reading the back and forth. I don't really make a big deal out of it either, I was just using it a point to explain to Mad Max that its better to actually ignore them instead of doing that weird "well I guess he was saying this but ignored so lol" type stuff.
 
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105. Re: Op Ed Jul 26, 2014, 21:50 Quboid
 
yuastnav wrote on Jul 26, 2014, 17:58:
This whole business of blocking someone because you got really emotional over something that person said is silly.
Come on people, you have a perfectly functioning brain. You can read something someone said and then decide on the fly whether you want to just dismiss it outright or further think about it.
It's not that you can actually get dumber by reading something.

I understand blocking someone because of spam, which I rarely see here, but because of opinions?

I was wondering if there was more to it, and apparently there is. I don't like blocking anyone ever but I appreciate that others feel differently. Some people seem to regularly misunderstand Beamer and get angry at him over their own weird misinterpretation so it's good that it's not that again. I once saw someone get angry at him for saying that Simcity 2013 getting an offline mode was good for consumers. I mean, disagreeing with that takes determination and talent, it's almost admirable.
 
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104. Re: Op Ed Jul 26, 2014, 21:39 Prez
 
It's not that you can actually get dumber by reading something.

Sometimes it feels that way though...

I had two people on my ignore list for a time, but I since emptied the list. It's not like you can't see what they say when people quote them anyway. I try to ignore the idiocy but it's more convenient if you never have to be exposed to it in the first place. Mostly I try to get along with everyone now.

Certain people will say things that will make gy head spin but that's just the internet; it's unlikely that they are the same in real life.
 
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103. Re: Op Ed Jul 26, 2014, 17:58 yuastnav
 
This whole business of blocking someone because you got really emotional over something that person said is silly.
Come on people, you have a perfectly functioning brain. You can read something someone said and then decide on the fly whether you want to just dismiss it outright or further think about it.
It's not that you can actually get dumber by reading something.

I understand blocking someone because of spam, which I rarely see here, but because of opinions?
 
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102. Re: Op Ed Jul 26, 2014, 02:27 Beamer
 
Quboid wrote on Jul 25, 2014, 23:36:
Beamer wrote on Jul 25, 2014, 12:28:
Mad Max RW wrote on Jul 25, 2014, 12:18:
A rebuttal to what exactly? How bullying and harassment as a pretense to getting your way by hiding behind "equality" and "tolerance" is bad? That has to be explained? People like Beamer and jdreyer don't care at all about helping others. They are in it just for making everyone feel as miserable as they are. Racism, women's rights, gay marriage, etc. doesn't matter to them. It's pretend. It's a show. They latch onto these things only to perpetuate an intolerance they created. That's their motive. Not to help but to make everyone fight each other. Meanwhile any actual gains are lost because of their bogus ideas.

Your worldview is terrifying.

His worldview is convenient. Anybody who seems more open minded than him is actually a phoney. I honestly don't think he has considered the possibility that people can actually have empathy.

I'm very surprised that Verno blocks Beamer. Verno, just because you disagree with him? Beamer's not the sort to resort to things like throwing stupid labels around, which FWIW I appreciate you calling out.

I really got on his nerves once. It was when I was desperately trying to switch jobs, companies and cities. I was in a bad mood and being very short in a topic along these lines. I don't fault him but I appreciate your comment. I believe nin blocked me then, too, and I'm surprised Creston did not.
 
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101. Re: Op Ed Jul 25, 2014, 23:36 Quboid
 
Beamer wrote on Jul 25, 2014, 12:28:
Mad Max RW wrote on Jul 25, 2014, 12:18:
A rebuttal to what exactly? How bullying and harassment as a pretense to getting your way by hiding behind "equality" and "tolerance" is bad? That has to be explained? People like Beamer and jdreyer don't care at all about helping others. They are in it just for making everyone feel as miserable as they are. Racism, women's rights, gay marriage, etc. doesn't matter to them. It's pretend. It's a show. They latch onto these things only to perpetuate an intolerance they created. That's their motive. Not to help but to make everyone fight each other. Meanwhile any actual gains are lost because of their bogus ideas.

Your worldview is terrifying.

His worldview is convenient. Anybody who seems more open minded than him is actually a phoney. I honestly don't think he has considered the possibility that people can actually have empathy.

I'm very surprised that Verno blocks Beamer. Verno, just because you disagree with him? Beamer's not the sort to resort to things like throwing stupid labels around, which FWIW I appreciate you calling out.
 
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100. Re: Op Ed Jul 25, 2014, 18:33 Stormsinger
 
Draugr wrote on Jul 25, 2014, 15:30:
In my experience Blue seems willing to accept articles to share, if you want to introduce the discussion, why not submit something to him?

Why would he submit something? That's not what trolls do.
 
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99. Re: Op Ed Jul 25, 2014, 15:30 Draugr
 
Mad Max RW wrote on Jul 25, 2014, 12:38:
Verno wrote on Jul 25, 2014, 12:24:
A response to the issue/article is what I meant, not the people you're angry at for various reasons. Beamer is one of two people on my permanent ignore list and will never come off but JD is pretty level headed and you just disagree on this. There's really no need for "does being a SJW get you laid" type crap, that's some childish stuff.

That was a tongue firmly in cheek comment by me to break up the previously phony seriousness going on in here. Actually, living and working in the Yale portion of New Haven, one of the most liberal spots in the whole country, I see this kind of crap all the time.

There's only two people that deserve to be globally ignored, Beamer and Cutter. It's fitting because they are both on opposite ends of the idiot spectrum.

As for the article I don't disagree with any of it. Most of what they wrote sounds less like a problem for women than part of a larger problem of just plain horrible unfiltered bigots with internet access. Where's the discussion about the anti-Semitic stuff sweeping social media?


You can construct fantasies about the personal lives of people who disagree with you all you want, but you just succeed in making yourself looking small.

It seems like a safe bet given your behavior in this thread that, even if the community tried to discuss something like anti-semitism you'd just accuse those who would disagree with you as being inauthentic anyway and then avoid discussion. Like now, you'll hope the characterization of those people you disagree with which you created in your head, can do the work for you.
Luckily humans can handle more than one thing at a time so people can care about something like this AND anti-semitism.
After all, you made up the reason of those who disagree with you of only wanting to make you feel bad, and you say people who discuss racism can do so as well, so why would we expect any different answers from you beyond the poo flinging you brought to this thread.

In my experience Blue seems willing to accept articles to share, if you want to introduce the discussion, why not submit something to him?
 
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98. Re: Op Ed Jul 25, 2014, 12:38 Mad Max RW
 
Verno wrote on Jul 25, 2014, 12:24:
A response to the issue/article is what I meant, not the people you're angry at for various reasons. Beamer is one of two people on my permanent ignore list and will never come off but JD is pretty level headed and you just disagree on this. There's really no need for "does being a SJW get you laid" type crap, that's some childish stuff.

That was a tongue firmly in cheek comment by me to break up the previously phony seriousness going on in here. Actually, living and working in the Yale portion of New Haven, one of the most liberal spots in the whole country, I see this kind of crap all the time.

There's only two people that deserve to be globally ignored, Beamer and Cutter. It's fitting because they are both on opposite ends of the idiot spectrum.

As for the article I don't disagree with any of it. Most of what they wrote sounds less like a problem for women than part of a larger problem of just plain horrible unfiltered bigots with internet access. Where's the discussion about the anti-Semitic stuff sweeping social media?
 
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