Out of the Blue

Had another go at PAYDAY 2 for our Monday co-op gaming session. We are a truly terrible gang, incapable of executing a simple snatch-and-grab job without having to shoot our way out like it's the Alamo. We're trying to figure out if our problem is just not being good at the game yet, or if there's an error in our approach, as we're only playing together, so at this point we're all level four, so the problem may be that we don't have enough skills to do things correctly. Either way, things have not progressed past "ugly" at this point, and I'm not sure this isn't going to lead to us all going straight.

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20.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Jul 27, 2014, 02:06
Ant
 
20.
Re: Out of the Blue Jul 27, 2014, 02:06
Jul 27, 2014, 02:06
 Ant
 
Darks wrote on Jul 22, 2014, 13:24:
Tim1_2 wrote on Jul 22, 2014, 10:10:
I played PAYDAY 2 once, by myself, on a free via Steam weekend. It was some mission where I had to go in to a mall and smash stuff. Then cops started showing up in endless waves, leading to a ridiculous, never-ending firefight. I think the problem was I just didn’t really know how to accomplish my goal, and also the AI team mates weren’t overly competent. So it was a mediocre play session, and I gave up on it.

That's the problem I have with this game. The endless spawning on Police. After you have completed a mission, you feel like you just wiped out the full police force for the city.

Same here. I like the game, but the respawns are annoying!
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19.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Jul 23, 2014, 11:17
19.
Re: Out of the Blue Jul 23, 2014, 11:17
Jul 23, 2014, 11:17
 
so the problem may be that we don't have enough skills to do things correctly.

*ding
18.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Jul 23, 2014, 04:47
18.
Re: Out of the Blue Jul 23, 2014, 04:47
Jul 23, 2014, 04:47
 
ShakaUVM wrote on Jul 23, 2014, 02:31:
>at this point we're all level four,

Blue, that's your problem. Payday 2 has a really weird design, where even though quiet and loud both look like viable options, they are not. All the stuff you need to stealth a mission has to be unlocked, and some of the things are very deep unlocks (like being able to lockpick a safe, or quiet drilling or using ECMs to disable pagers), requiring you to invest a lot of time in the game playing a first person shooter before you can turn it into a stealth game.

By contrast, most games with these two options (say, Dishonored or Deus Ex) allow both options to work from the start.

Some of the stealth missions are ridiculously difficult. Like stupidly, ridiculously difficult. Others (like the normal bank missions) are actually fairly reasonable to do, once you learn the basics.

Essentially, you need to kill the guards with silencers, bag up their bodies (which requires an easy unlock), kill the tellers (since they will alert the police), and then have everyone rush in and order all the customers to the ground. Zip tie everyone (another easy unlock), and if you can get to everyone before a customer can sneak a phone call to the police. Any loud gunshots will alert the police, so you need to unlock silencers on at least one person, and hopefully everyone. Fast drilling (a medium unlock) and fast bag packing and movement will help you break through the safe door and load up your stuff quickly. A drillsaw (a deep unlock) will help you get the security boxes open quickly.

I haven't played this yet, but is there a way to be successful WITHOUT killing anyone, kind of like real life where bank robbers never kill anyone? You know, like The Town.

(BTW, the scene where they pull up in their masks, and there's a cop on the other side of the street that sees them: that actually happened. Affleck wrote that scene after talking to a convict to whom that actually happened. Not all cops are Dirty Harry. Some just want to eat doughnuts and write speeding tickets.)
If Russia stops fighting, the war ends. If Ukraine stops fighting, Ukraine ends. Slava Ukraini!
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17.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Jul 23, 2014, 02:41
17.
Re: Out of the Blue Jul 23, 2014, 02:41
Jul 23, 2014, 02:41
 
ShakaUVM wrote on Jul 23, 2014, 02:31:
>at this point we're all level four,

Blue, that's your problem. Payday 2 has a really weird design, where even though quiet and loud both look like viable options, they are not. All the stuff you need to stealth a mission has to be unlocked, and some of the things are very deep unlocks (like being able to lockpick a safe, or quiet drilling or using ECMs to disable pagers), requiring you to invest a lot of time in the game playing a first person shooter before you can turn it into a stealth game.

By contrast, most games with these two options (say, Dishonored or Deus Ex) allow both options to work from the start.

Some of the stealth missions are ridiculously difficult. Like stupidly, ridiculously difficult. Others (like the normal bank missions) are actually fairly reasonable to do, once you learn the basics.

Essentially, you need to kill the guards with silencers, bag up their bodies (which requires an easy unlock), kill the tellers (since they will alert the police), and then have everyone rush in and order all the customers to the ground. Zip tie everyone (another easy unlock), and if you can get to everyone before a customer can sneak a phone call to the police. Any loud gunshots will alert the police, so you need to unlock silencers on at least one person, and hopefully everyone. Fast drilling (a medium unlock) and fast bag packing and movement will help you break through the safe door and load up your stuff quickly. A drillsaw (a deep unlock) will help you get the security boxes open quickly.

Yeah but even if you can't do the full mission stealth you can do aspects of it, even the smallest of which will buy you time. It also teaches you how to do it through trial and error which I found pretty neat. Each time I went in with friends we would add something new from your list to our gameplan.
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16.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Jul 23, 2014, 02:36
16.
Re: Out of the Blue Jul 23, 2014, 02:36
Jul 23, 2014, 02:36
 
Darks wrote on Jul 22, 2014, 13:24:
That's the problem I have with this game. The endless spawning on Police. After you have completed a mission, you feel like you just wiped out the full police force for the city.
During the Hollywood Shootout, which Payday 2 is sort of based on, 200 LAPD responded to the criminals shooting their way out of a bank robbery gone bad.

But yeah, it can get pretty overwhelming, especially on tougher difficulty, so you need to figure out ways of cutting down their numbers without risk, usually by covering a chokepoint that they have to rush through, or by taking the high ground.

It's an amazingly fun time when you pull off a tough mission successfully.
15.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Jul 23, 2014, 02:31
15.
Re: Out of the Blue Jul 23, 2014, 02:31
Jul 23, 2014, 02:31
 
>at this point we're all level four,

Blue, that's your problem. Payday 2 has a really weird design, where even though quiet and loud both look like viable options, they are not. All the stuff you need to stealth a mission has to be unlocked, and some of the things are very deep unlocks (like being able to lockpick a safe, or quiet drilling or using ECMs to disable pagers), requiring you to invest a lot of time in the game playing a first person shooter before you can turn it into a stealth game.

By contrast, most games with these two options (say, Dishonored or Deus Ex) allow both options to work from the start.

Some of the stealth missions are ridiculously difficult. Like stupidly, ridiculously difficult. Others (like the normal bank missions) are actually fairly reasonable to do, once you learn the basics.

Essentially, you need to kill the guards with silencers, bag up their bodies (which requires an easy unlock), kill the tellers (since they will alert the police), and then have everyone rush in and order all the customers to the ground. Zip tie everyone (another easy unlock), and if you can get to everyone before a customer can sneak a phone call to the police. Any loud gunshots will alert the police, so you need to unlock silencers on at least one person, and hopefully everyone. Fast drilling (a medium unlock) and fast bag packing and movement will help you break through the safe door and load up your stuff quickly. A drillsaw (a deep unlock) will help you get the security boxes open quickly.
14.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Jul 22, 2014, 15:47
14.
Re: Out of the Blue Jul 22, 2014, 15:47
Jul 22, 2014, 15:47
 
4 Cobra snakes protecting a sleeping baby.

Time to call social services?
If Russia stops fighting, the war ends. If Ukraine stops fighting, Ukraine ends. Slava Ukraini!
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13.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Jul 22, 2014, 15:19
13.
Re: Out of the Blue Jul 22, 2014, 15:19
Jul 22, 2014, 15:19
 
Darks wrote on Jul 22, 2014, 13:24:
Tim1_2 wrote on Jul 22, 2014, 10:10:
I played PAYDAY 2 once, by myself, on a free via Steam weekend. It was some mission where I had to go in to a mall and smash stuff. Then cops started showing up in endless waves, leading to a ridiculous, never-ending firefight. I think the problem was I just didn’t really know how to accomplish my goal, and also the AI team mates weren’t overly competent. So it was a mediocre play session, and I gave up on it.

That's the problem I have with this game. The endless spawning on Police. After you have completed a mission, you feel like you just wiped out the full police force for the city.


Would you prefer the police to be fewer but more lethal? Also, when there's a major bank robbery in real life, you actually do get the whole city police force responding.
If Russia stops fighting, the war ends. If Ukraine stops fighting, Ukraine ends. Slava Ukraini!
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12.
 
Re: Notch's Text Adventure
Jul 22, 2014, 14:49
12.
Re: Notch's Text Adventure Jul 22, 2014, 14:49
Jul 22, 2014, 14:49
 
Blue, you should Twitch your payday2
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11.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Jul 22, 2014, 14:11
11.
Re: Out of the Blue Jul 22, 2014, 14:11
Jul 22, 2014, 14:11
 
Darks wrote on Jul 22, 2014, 13:24:
That's the problem I have with this game. The endless spawning on Police. After you have completed a mission, you feel like you just wiped out the full police force for the city.

If you suspend the disbelief of that particular part it's a great cooperative game. At higher difficulties some situations you occasionally find yourself in are so tense you will sweat your mouse right out of your hand even if you're on a well-oiled team. Sometimes you can do everything right and things will still go wrong. There's great satisfaction in overcoming the odds. Even more so when you're on a team that works well together and where everyone knows what they need to do as the situation shifts.
Huh? I'm sorry, I was thinking about cake.
10.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Jul 22, 2014, 13:24
10.
Re: Out of the Blue Jul 22, 2014, 13:24
Jul 22, 2014, 13:24
 
Tim1_2 wrote on Jul 22, 2014, 10:10:
I played PAYDAY 2 once, by myself, on a free via Steam weekend. It was some mission where I had to go in to a mall and smash stuff. Then cops started showing up in endless waves, leading to a ridiculous, never-ending firefight. I think the problem was I just didn’t really know how to accomplish my goal, and also the AI team mates weren’t overly competent. So it was a mediocre play session, and I gave up on it.

That's the problem I have with this game. The endless spawning on Police. After you have completed a mission, you feel like you just wiped out the full police force for the city.

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9.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Jul 22, 2014, 12:50
9.
Re: Out of the Blue Jul 22, 2014, 12:50
Jul 22, 2014, 12:50
 
I don't really give stealth a serious attempt. I mostly play with my brother and we're both pretty loud-oriented. Every once in a while we stealth most or all of a map accidentally or through luck and aggressive timing but we usually just plan for it to involve lots of shooting.

That approach is obviously more difficult for low levels who don't have good armor or guns, but tagging along with someone higher level who can handle pro very hard Rats or Firestarter on their own and doesn't mind having you there can take you from fresh to the mid-30s in one go. That'll give you access to the second best armor and a much better selection of guns, the money to buy them, and a lot of skill points. Whether you like loud or quiet, having decent gear and skills makes the game a lot less frustrating.
Huh? I'm sorry, I was thinking about cake.
8.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Jul 22, 2014, 12:28
8.
Re: Out of the Blue Jul 22, 2014, 12:28
Jul 22, 2014, 12:28
 
Strangely enough, I've found the best way to "stealth" the bank heist missions is to kill all the civilians that are wandering the streets so they cant walk by and see something suspicious and blow your whole operation. Yeah it takes a toll on the cash earned for the person killing the civs, but if you have the person with the most expendable cash on them take care of this, it doesn't matter as much.

Once you've taken them all out and done so without being caught, you just need to sneak in and prevent the alarms from going off (make sure you crowd control the teller booths and check on the mission intel to see where the alarm button is). If you can subdue all the cops and civilians inside, which is not very hard with everyone coordinating on going in at the same time and spamming shout, and cuffing the cops or shooting them with silencers. If you kill everyone on the street you can also make as much noise as you want to at this point because there is no-one left on the streets to hear the glass breaking, etc.. and you have all the time you want to open every safe box (remember to bring a saw if you can to speed this up immensely and break into those ATM's in the lobby!). This technique can also be used on the mission where you burn the cash but can still break in the safe boxes, but best to master it first on the regular bank missions so you don't potentially screw up the last part of that multi-day mission, which especially sucks on pro missions.

Once you master this you can stealth pro-overkill missions here rather easily and rake in mad loot/exp.
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7.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Jul 22, 2014, 11:43
7.
Re: Out of the Blue Jul 22, 2014, 11:43
Jul 22, 2014, 11:43
 
Dacron wrote on Jul 22, 2014, 11:36:
Agreed with everything but silencers. If you're going a stealth route, it's much safer to run/sneak up and melee opponents. Silencers can be heard through walls/ceilings and cause people to trip alarms.

Depends on the mission. For things where you're drawing a guard up a stairwell like in the bank heist, melee'ing him before he gets a shot off is tricky. That's one of the big challenges with stealth is risking being detected by a guard. If they get a shot off, it most definitely is not silenced and you're blown. So yeah definitely either sneak up and melee, or use a silenced pistol before they get a shot off.

I haven't personally had a silenced pistol detected before, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
6.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Jul 22, 2014, 11:36
6.
Re: Out of the Blue Jul 22, 2014, 11:36
Jul 22, 2014, 11:36
 
Keilun wrote on Jul 22, 2014, 11:28:
It's definitely your level. Without the required gear and skills, stealthing becomes a lot harder. For example, you'll most definitely need a silencer, so make sure you buy that asap. Skill wise, it's just more things to help make things easier (extra zip ties, body bags, ecm, etc.).

I've tended to find the bank heist a bit easier to stealth. We've tended to always keep someone on the outside watching for civvies that patrol the sidewalk. He needs to shout them down + zip tie, or kill them.

Then we sneak up to the roof and set up a loud drill on the power room door (watch out for cameras). The loud drill draws guards up the stairs. Kill them and bag them up. Then find the keycard either off the manager or on the manager's desk. Use it to open the security room on the bottom floor and kill the guard inside. Finally, charge into the bank and shout them all down + zip tie. You'll need to cover the teller area + the back office.

It's a lot easier to just kill the civvies than to watch over them if you don't have the zip ties. If you choose the kill route, you can kill the backoffice before you charge the teller area. This may not pay off well if you just do the regular bank heist map. But Firestarter day 3 uses the same map and Firestarter pays off really well - even if you just go the non stealth option. If you can stealth day 3 of Firestarter you get a ton of extra cash.

I prefer the bank heist to the Framing Frame one because that one you absolutely need to stealth day 3. Guns blazing is extra hard and annoying on day 3.

Btw, if you want to advance quickly, keep things ugly and don't be afraid to try hard or very hard difficulty as they increase your XP+cash gains significantly to get your early levels and guns. Some of the easier maps to run are:

Mallcrasher (no stealth)
Firestarter
Any "Transport" missions (no stealth)
Ukrainian job (might be easier to stealth this one if you can control the crowd and the pedestrians)

If you get C4, Ukrainian job becomes a 30s mission.

Agreed with everything but silencers. If you're going a stealth route, it's much safer to run/sneak up and melee opponents. Silencers can be heard through walls/ceilings and cause people to trip alarms.
Currently setting a record for most edited posts, 1 reply at a time.
5.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Jul 22, 2014, 11:28
5.
Re: Out of the Blue Jul 22, 2014, 11:28
Jul 22, 2014, 11:28
 
Payday 2 is my go to game as of right now. I played quite a bit this weekend and I can tell you that if you can get into a game with a high level player and he doesn't kick your ass out, then play with him and he knows exactly what to do and he explains how to get through the missions the best way or what you're really supposed to be doing. This helped me immensely. Also, even though the bots suck total ass and they cannot perform basic functions its still fun to play a game with them and try to figure out what you're supposed to be doing or how the flow of that level is going to be. Think of it as 'casing' the level before you play it online with your buddies, it does help!
With a damaged Panzer still hunting 'The Haunted Tank' and Gus out of ammo, Jeb knew there was only one option, "Slim, RAM!"
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4.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Jul 22, 2014, 11:28
4.
Re: Out of the Blue Jul 22, 2014, 11:28
Jul 22, 2014, 11:28
 
It's definitely your level. Without the required gear and skills, stealthing becomes a lot harder. For example, you'll most definitely need a silencer, so make sure you buy that asap. Skill wise, it's just more things to help make things easier (extra zip ties, body bags, ecm, etc.).

I've tended to find the bank heist a bit easier to stealth. We've tended to always keep someone on the outside watching for civvies that patrol the sidewalk. He needs to shout them down + zip tie, or kill them.

Then we sneak up to the roof and set up a loud drill on the power room door (watch out for cameras). The loud drill draws guards up the stairs. Kill them and bag them up. Then find the keycard either off the manager or on the manager's desk. Use it to open the security room on the bottom floor and kill the guard inside. Finally, charge into the bank and shout them all down + zip tie. You'll need to cover the teller area + the back office.

It's a lot easier to just kill the civvies than to watch over them if you don't have the zip ties. If you choose the kill route, you can kill the backoffice before you charge the teller area. This may not pay off well if you just do the regular bank heist map. But Firestarter day 3 uses the same map and Firestarter pays off really well - even if you just go the non stealth option. If you can stealth day 3 of Firestarter you get a ton of extra cash.

I prefer the bank heist to the Framing Frame one because that one you absolutely need to stealth day 3. Guns blazing is extra hard and annoying on day 3.

Btw, if you want to advance quickly, keep things ugly and don't be afraid to try hard or very hard difficulty as they increase your XP+cash gains significantly to get your early levels and guns. Some of the easier maps to run are:

Mallcrasher (no stealth)
Firestarter
Any "Transport" missions (no stealth)
Ukrainian job (might be easier to stealth this one if you can control the crowd and the pedestrians)

If you get C4, Ukrainian job becomes a 30s mission.
3.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Jul 22, 2014, 11:13
PHJF
 
3.
Re: Out of the Blue Jul 22, 2014, 11:13
Jul 22, 2014, 11:13
 PHJF
 
Most missions are impossible to perform cleanly, let alone on a regular basis.
Steam + PSN: PHJF
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2.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Jul 22, 2014, 10:31
2.
Re: Out of the Blue Jul 22, 2014, 10:31
Jul 22, 2014, 10:31
 
I prefer the art heist mission in that game, the parameters for stealth are a lot easier to understand. The smash and grab in the mall is just basically running around spamming damage to the glass so you can get out of there quickly before the cops show up. The jewelry store ones are similar, you basically have someone jam coms and then get the min bag count and get out before it turns into a shit show. The bank requires more finesse but there is some randomness involved so its harder to generalize about.

Haven't played in a few months, its not one of those games where you really want to replay it a lot once you figure out the optimal paths.

The insurance scammer getting hit there is hilarious. He was so bad at faking the collision that the driver didn't even see him at all. I guess in the end he'll have a real claim now though ugh

This comment was edited on Jul 22, 2014, 10:40.
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1.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Jul 22, 2014, 10:10
1.
Re: Out of the Blue Jul 22, 2014, 10:10
Jul 22, 2014, 10:10
 
I played PAYDAY 2 once, by myself, on a free via Steam weekend. It was some mission where I had to go in to a mall and smash stuff. Then cops started showing up in endless waves, leading to a ridiculous, never-ending firefight. I think the problem was I just didn’t really know how to accomplish my goal, and also the AI team mates weren’t overly competent. So it was a mediocre play session, and I gave up on it.
Currently playing: ARMA 3 mods and DayZ
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