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Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth in October

Sid Meier's Civilization website now offers an October 24, 2014 release date for Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth, the new sci-fi installment in the turn-based strategy series. They celebrate the news with a new video with the game's E3 presentation and by announcing the preorder bonus for the game is the Exoplanets Map Pack.

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31. Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth in October Jul 9, 2014, 14:03 Flatline
 
Yifes wrote on Jul 3, 2014, 20:03:
They are absolutely related. The one unit per tile and hexagonal tiles are a direct adaptation of classic wargames

BZZZT sorry thanks for playing.

"Classic" wargames are infamous for having huge stacks of chits per hex space. There are tools that have been invented (along with tweezers and forceps) for manipulating stacks of chits.

http://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic681544_md.jpg
 
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30. Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth in October Jul 4, 2014, 01:24 Krovven
 
Timmeh wrote on Jul 4, 2014, 00:59:
The only way to play a civ game, including civ5.

Well as you can see in the comments, everyone has different preferences and there is no one way to play the game...which is one of the huge benefits of the game.

Personally I prefer playing smaller to mid sized games. Playing on Huge maps with a whole ton of Ai doesn't increase the enjoyment I get out of the game, all it does is make the games last ridiculously longer than they need to (for my tastes).

I also prefer the hex and single unit per tile format. While several comments here seem to indicate that they prefer more units per stack...the biggest problem with that was the "stacks of doom".
I've tried going back to Civ4, I just couldn't do it.

 
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29. Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth in October Jul 4, 2014, 00:59 Timmeh
 
The only way to play a civ game, including civ5.. is to max the map size, max the number of AI players, and use cheats to Max the shit out of yourself through mass gold and instant construction. Then go around and be the biggest war mongering A hole the world has ever seen.

Take this Nuke up the ass colonial level France... and a few giant robots to. (oh that is after you did some democracy bullshit to make them think they were your friend)

Now that is how you kill a few hours with real laugh your ass off entertainment.
 
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28. Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth in October Jul 3, 2014, 21:56 Yifes
 
descender wrote on Jul 3, 2014, 20:48:
I understand all of that.
Hexes have nothing to do with that. The maps could have been made larger (there are even mods for some truly massive maps) and still use hexes. That's what I was referring to, anyway. They are not directly related, or a problem because of each other. They simply didn't make the default maps large enough for your tastes.

Again, this doesn't really alleviate the problem because the entire game is designed and balanced around smaller maps with fewer units, with each unit worth so much more than in previous games.

You can win cultural games with 20 units and 2-3 cities.

Yes, and the new features in Brave New World definitely made it a better game. A lot of old school civ fans just don't think that the compromises made to implement the new 1 unit per tile rules were worth it, and carrying it over to Beyond Earth is a step in the wrong direction.

I will still play Beyond Earth, but will probably wait for a steam sale a few years and a couple expansion packs later. Now if Brian Reynolds was starting a real sequel to Alpha Centauri, I'd jump on that kickstarter in a heartbeat.
 
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27. Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth in October Jul 3, 2014, 20:59 SpectralMeat
 
Thanks for the guides and stuff. I appreciate it guys.
I think I just have to dedicate some time to learn this game and I should be fine.
I did play other 4X games before, Endless Space was one of my favorites.
 
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26. Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth in October Jul 3, 2014, 20:59 descender
 
As Scottish Martial Arts points out, the map sizes are still small compared to the number of units present

Then simply play with less civs and CS's on the larger maps if it's a problem for you?

The Civ5 game experience is almost completely customizable, these complaints should not really be slowing you down.
 
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25. Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth in October Jul 3, 2014, 20:48 descender
 
I understand all of that.

You said
hexes do NOT work in Civ. The problem is with Civ's one unit per hex rule and that Civ's maps are much smaller in comparison than in a wargame;
Hexes have nothing to do with that. The maps could have been made larger (there are even mods for some truly massive maps) and still use hexes. That's what I was referring to, anyway. They are not directly related, or a problem because of each other. They simply didn't make the default maps large enough for your tastes.

I still don't understand this sentiment as most games are long over before you get to the point where you have a map full of units, unless you are only playing with domination victory enabled. You can win cultural games with 20 units and 2-3 cities.

If you try to play Civ 5 like you played Civ 4, you're gonna have a bad time. Sure it's different, but I don't think it's worse by any stretch.

This comment was edited on Jul 3, 2014, 21:29.
 
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24. Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth in October Jul 3, 2014, 20:42 JaguarUSF
 
JediPunisher wrote on Jul 3, 2014, 17:24:
I've been waiting 15 years for a sequel to my favorite turn-based strategy game of all time, Alpha Centauri.
Pandora: First Contact?
 
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23. Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth in October Jul 3, 2014, 20:03 Yifes
 
descender wrote on Jul 3, 2014, 19:40:
1 Unit-Per-Tile has absolutely nothing to do with the shape of the tiles, so try not to trip while you backpedal so fast.

They are absolutely related. The one unit per tile and hexagonal tiles are a direct adaptation of classic wargames, which offer much more tactical depth than the old square tile civ games. And no, while AI "issues" have been fixed, the AI is still terrible compared to humans. Such deficiencies will always be present, but it is much more obvious given Civ5's game design. And while you can play on larger maps, that does not alleviate the problem. As Scottish Martial Arts points out, the map sizes are still small compared to the number of units present, and the relative size between units and cities are completely disproportionate.

Civ 5 is still a good game despite its deficiencies, and Beyond Earth will likely be good. It's just highly unlikely to live up to Alpha Centauri, especially since the man responsible for the greatest two games in the series, Brian Reynolds, is no longer at Firaxis.

This comment was edited on Jul 3, 2014, 20:14.
 
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22. Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth in October Jul 3, 2014, 19:48 Scottish Martial Arts
 
descender wrote on Jul 3, 2014, 19:40:
I don't know why you think the maps are small you realize you can play on bigger ones if you choose...

Relative to the amount of "pieces" on the "board", Civ maps are VERY small. Even a huge map is only 128 x 80 hexes. The standard map (80x52) corresponds to about four map sheets of Classic Battletech, on which you might have... 15 - 20 pieces TOTAL. A Civ V game in comparison will have 10 times that number by game's end, and it will feel crowded for it.
 
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21. Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth in October Jul 3, 2014, 19:42 Scottish Martial Arts
 
Yifes wrote on Jul 3, 2014, 19:14:
Hex tiles are great. However, as many people more knowledgable than me have stated, hexes do NOT work in Civ. The problem is with Civ's one unit per hex rule and that Civ's maps are much smaller in comparison than in a wargame; In Civ, an entire city is ONE hex in size, and is the same size as a single unit.

The small size of the maps means that the game design has to compensate by letting the player build fewer units, which has far reaching impact on all other aspects of the game. Additionally, the smaller maps limit maneuverability. A consequence is that the AI is notoriously terrible and highly exploitable ie. incredibly easy to set up chokepoints with a handful of units that the AI simply cannot deal with.

Sure, and I actually agree with your assessment: the switch to hexes in Civ V has largely been unsuccessful, but primarily for reasons which are separate from the hexes themselves, i.e. the small, constrained maps, and the one unit per tile rule.

My issue was with the poster's more general complaint with hexes, which showed abject ignorance of their advantages, and the consensus of turn-based combat designers for the past 50 years. Hexes are only shit if the only hex game you've played is Civ V. /shrug
 
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20. Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth in October Jul 3, 2014, 19:40 descender
 
1 Unit-Per-Tile has absolutely nothing to do with the shape of the tiles, so try not to trip while you backpedal so fast. Regardless, most of the AI issues have been fixed already in the expansions and patches, and your "choke points" only work against the entry level difficulty levels. I don't know why you think the maps are small you realize you can play on bigger ones if you choose...

There are good arguments against 1UPT, but this is not one of them.
 
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19. Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth in October Jul 3, 2014, 19:14 Yifes
 
Scottish Martial Arts wrote on Jul 3, 2014, 18:53:
I'm sorry but that's retarded. In the world of tabletop wargames, which in many ways the Civ games are a loose homage to, hexes have been standard for pretty much forever, because they are superior to squares for turn-based combat games. Yes, you lose two possible move directions, and yes, hexes do not align with the cardinal directions, but what you gain is significant. Namely, the center of a hex is equidistant to the center of all adjacent hexes, where as with squares, the centers of diagonally adjacent squares are significantly further than orthogonally adjacent squares, which creates a "bunny hop" like effect: you can go farther moving diagonally than orthogonally, yet pay the same movement cost for both moves. Squares, through a flaw in their design, privilege certain movements over others, which encourages players not to make moves in accordance with the tactical scenario, but in accordance with metagaming the movement rules. Furthermore, only orthogonally adjacent squares share an edge, where as adjacent hexes all share an edge; this is critical in games in which facing, i.e. any turn-based combat game worth its salt, makes a difference to combat results. Hexes therefore facilitate more complex combat rules, where facing, flanks, supporting units, etc. can impact the outcome, in ways that squares can't.

In short, there's a reason why you'll be hard pressed to find a tabletop war game made in the last 50 years which uses squares.

Hex tiles are great. However, as many people more knowledgable than me have stated, hexes do NOT work in Civ. The problem is with Civ's one unit per hex rule and that Civ's maps are much smaller in comparison than in a wargame; In Civ, an entire city is ONE hex in size, and is the same size as a single unit.

The small size of the maps means that the game design has to compensate by letting the player build fewer units, which has far reaching impact on all other aspects of the game. Additionally, the smaller maps limit maneuverability. A consequence is that the AI is notoriously terrible and highly exploitable ie. incredibly easy to set up chokepoints with a handful of units that the AI simply cannot deal with.

This comment was edited on Jul 3, 2014, 19:21.
 
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18. Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth in October Jul 3, 2014, 19:08 Mad Max RW
 
I was apprehensive about buying Civ 5 Complete during the Steam sale since I was so underwhelmed by Civ 4's launch. Then the surprisingly large amount of updates and mods I saw put me over the edge. And you know what, this is actually a very fun game. It's no Civ 2 (or even 3) and I doubt Beyond Earth will hold a candle to Alpha Centauri. At any rate I'm looking forward to see what they come up with.  
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17. Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth in October Jul 3, 2014, 18:53 Scottish Martial Arts
 
JediPunisher wrote on Jul 3, 2014, 17:24:
I've been waiting 15 years for a sequel to my favorite turn-based strategy game of all time, Alpha Centauri. Unfortunately, it looks like I'll be waiting a while longer, because this isn't it. I hate hex grids, which restrict movement to six directions making the game less strategic... in other words, dumbing it down for the Nintendo generation while simplifying the AI programming. Could be worse, I guess... They could've returned to square tiles and limited our movement to four directions, rather than the original eight.

I'm sorry but that's retarded. In the world of tabletop wargames, which in many ways the Civ games are a loose homage to, hexes have been standard for pretty much forever, because they are superior to squares for turn-based combat games. Yes, you lose two possible move directions, and yes, hexes do not align with the cardinal directions, but what you gain is significant. Namely, the center of a hex is equidistant to the center of all adjacent hexes, where as with squares, the centers of diagonally adjacent squares are significantly further than orthogonally adjacent squares, which creates a "bunny hop" like effect: you can go farther moving diagonally than orthogonally, yet pay the same movement cost for both moves. Squares, through a flaw in their design, privilege certain movements over others, which encourages players not to make moves in accordance with the tactical scenario, but in accordance with metagaming the movement rules. Furthermore, only orthogonally adjacent squares share an edge, where as adjacent hexes all share an edge; this is critical in games in which facing, i.e. any turn-based combat game worth its salt, makes a difference to combat results. Hexes therefore facilitate more complex combat rules, where facing, flanks, supporting units, etc. can impact the outcome, in ways that squares can't.

In short, there's a reason why you'll be hard pressed to find a tabletop war game made in the last 50 years which uses squares.
 
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16. Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth in October Jul 3, 2014, 17:25 Cutter
 
jdreyer wrote on Jul 3, 2014, 17:11:
SpectralMeat wrote on Jul 3, 2014, 13:51:
I've tried so many times to get into this series but I couldn't.
Wonder if this one will be any more n00b friendly than Civ5 was.

Are you able to play other 4x games? Maybe it's just not your thing? I was so addicted to Civ 2 that I stayed up two nights in a row playing. Literally like 60 hours straight or something.

Yeah, that may be a big part of it. I've been playing Civ since day one. And it's always the only game that's always on my desktop no matter what. I've literally sunk 1000s of hours into it. So jumping into each new iteration isn't much of a learning curve, but for someone coming in fresh it may seem a bit overwhelming.

As I recall there should be a good intro tutorial for it. If not just start an easy game.
 
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15. Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth in October Jul 3, 2014, 17:24 JediPunisher
 
I've been waiting 15 years for a sequel to my favorite turn-based strategy game of all time, Alpha Centauri. Unfortunately, it looks like I'll be waiting a while longer, because this isn't it. I hate hex grids, which restrict movement to six directions making the game less strategic... in other words, dumbing it down for the Nintendo generation while simplifying the AI programming. Could be worse, I guess... They could've returned to square tiles and limited our movement to four directions, rather than the original eight.  
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14. Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth in October Jul 3, 2014, 17:12 descender
 
This is one of the more thorough guides I've come across http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=275147282

Play your first few games on easy difficulties, fast game speeds and small maps. There's no reason to be bold and take on more than you can handle.

Bump the difficulty and number of Civs/City-states (even well beyond the map suggestions) before you start bumping the actual map size.

Continents/Earth type maps are harder to win on because you can end up with some runaway AI problems. The ring/oval map or pangea type maps are generally easiest to start with.

I find the most 'fun' games are cramped, with as many opponents and CS's as you care to add on maps that don't really have enough room for them all. On larger maps you can go 100 turns at the beginning sometimes without running into another civ. Especially if you are only playing with the "recommended" number of AI players.

Once you get acclimated, PerfectWorld3 is almost a must have mod for balanced map generation.
 
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13. Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth in October Jul 3, 2014, 17:11 jdreyer
 
SpectralMeat wrote on Jul 3, 2014, 13:51:
I've tried so many times to get into this series but I couldn't.
Wonder if this one will be any more n00b friendly than Civ5 was.

Are you able to play other 4x games? Maybe it's just not your thing? I was so addicted to Civ 2 that I stayed up two nights in a row playing. Literally like 60 hours straight or something.
 
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12. Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth in October Jul 3, 2014, 16:26 SpectralMeat
 
Scottish Martial Arts wrote on Jul 3, 2014, 16:14:
Civ V is pretty user friendly as is. Was there something getting in the way of you understanding the mechanics, or was it simply a case where you understood the game but just didn't enjoy playing it that much?
It's been a while since I've tried it so I can't really tell you exactly what it was.
One of these days I should fire it up again and see what happens
I've started watching some "let's play" vids on youtube too but most people are so good at this game they click around so fast I have no clue wtf is going on so not really helpful in a "tutorial" way.
 
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