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Out of the Blue

The outcome of the U.S./Portugal world cup game yesterday was insane. Disappointing, of course, but what an amazing finish. Still, that "stoppage time" thing is by far my least favorite part of the sport. They need to have some sort of clock visible during the game that shows how much time is being added to the game or something... the whole mystery of it seems so sketchy, they really should make it more transparent.

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75 Replies. 4 pages. Viewing page 1.
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75. Re: Out of the Blue Jun 24, 2014, 22:22 Sepharo
 
InBlack wrote on Jun 24, 2014, 05:40:
There are Albanians, Kurds, Turks, Khazakis, Afghanis, Arabs, Persians, Pasthus, etc. etc. etc.

Still leaving out the biggest group: Indonesians.
 
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74. Re: Out of the Blue Jun 24, 2014, 18:09 Quboid
 
No, Creston, that's bullshit. You've misrepresented every point I made.

- Because you weren't actually saying that Soccer is terrifyingly dangerous (I've no doubt there are examples, but I can't think of another sport that exposes players to this kind of danger so frequently)
No, no I wasn't. I very deliberately wasn't. I made a point of saying "this KIND of danger". Not MORE danger than other sports.

- or that they're basically tough as nails warriors who get up despite the pain (Why do players get up and run around? Because once they get their wits back, they play on despite the pain.)
They get up despite pain, yes. So? That doesn't mean I'm claiming they're as tough as nails.

- and just grit it out, even though all of them may risk injuring themselves more despite it (When you're hurt, you may limp but when there's an opportunity to do some damage you either consciously or via adrenaline push past it, even though you may be worse off after it.)
Again, so? Are you saying that doing vigorous exercise while carrying an injury is fine?

- or that flopping is really just a rare occurrence (Just remember that most of the time, the reason a player looks hurt is because he is hurt and the reason he may get up and run around is precisely because he's manning up. Most of the time. )
I stand by my words entirely.
 
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73. Re: Out of the Blue Jun 24, 2014, 16:42 Creston
 
Quboid wrote on Jun 24, 2014, 14:33:
I hope not, because that would mean he's just as incapable of reading as Creston is.

Oh, incapable of reading. Riiiight. Because you weren't actually saying that Soccer is terrifyingly dangerous (I've no doubt there are examples, but I can't think of another sport that exposes players to this kind of danger so frequently) or that they're basically tough as nails warriors who get up despite the pain (Why do players get up and run around? Because once they get their wits back, they play on despite the pain.) and just grit it out, even though all of them may risk injuring themselves more despite it (When you're hurt, you may limp but when there's an opportunity to do some damage you either consciously or via adrenaline push past it, even though you may be worse off after it.) or that flopping is really just a rare occurrence (Just remember that most of the time, the reason a player looks hurt is because he is hurt and the reason he may get up and run around is precisely because he's manning up. Most of the time. )

Yeah, you're right. I need to learn to read. Fuck almighty... Rolleyes

I get it, you love soccer, and you hate seeing people disparage it. Even so, flopping is fucking ridiculous in soccer. Stop trying to come up with horseshit excuses for it. I understand people falling a lot, because every time you get hit it's on your legs/feet, and you're going to sprawl.

But they need to stop with the bullshit pretending like they just broke their leg in eight places every time they go to the fucking ground. And their pain always mysteriously lasts right until the ref awards the free kick / penalty, and then it vanishes like snow before the fucking sun.

This comment was edited on Jun 24, 2014, 16:56.
 
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72. Re: Out of the Blue Jun 24, 2014, 15:27 jdreyer
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Jun 24, 2014, 15:16:
jdreyer wrote on Jun 24, 2014, 14:37:
Could it have been a depressurizaton caused by a hijacking? Sure, I suppose (trying to work out how an an entire aircraft would get depressurized by a hijacker) but I'm going to go with Occam's razor, as accidental depressurizations are the most common explanation for what happened here.

I just think rampant speculation based on the pilot's fight sim hobby and lack of play dates on his calendar is just stupid and an attempt by the media to play up the "terrorist" angle where no evidence exists.
An Occam's razor approach doesn't resolve for the transponder getting turned off and for the multiple course changes.

And I already agreed their "speculation" of the pilot's possible involvement is not justified by the information they have released.

Yeah, I was more venting at the stupid article not at your reasonable comments.
 
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71. Re: Out of the Blue Jun 24, 2014, 15:16 Mr. Tact
 
jdreyer wrote on Jun 24, 2014, 14:37:
Could it have been a depressurizaton caused by a hijacking? Sure, I suppose (trying to work out how an an entire aircraft would get depressurized by a hijacker) but I'm going to go with Occam's razor, as accidental depressurizations are the most common explanation for what happened here.

I just think rampant speculation based on the pilot's fight sim hobby and lack of play dates on his calendar is just stupid and an attempt by the media to play up the "terrorist" angle where no evidence exists.
An Occam's razor approach doesn't resolve for the transponder getting turned off and for the multiple course changes.

And I already agreed their "speculation" of the pilot's possible involvement is not justified by the information they have released.
 
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70. Re: Out of the Blue Jun 24, 2014, 14:37 jdreyer
 
Could it have been a depressurizaton caused by a hijacking? Sure, I suppose (trying to work out how an an entire aircraft would get depressurized by a hijacker) but I'm going to go with Occam's razor, as accidental depressurizations are the most common explanation for what happened here.

I just think rampant speculation based on the pilot's fight sim hobby and lack of play dates on his calendar is just stupid and an attempt by the media to play up the "terrorist" angle where no evidence exists.
 
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69. Re: Out of the Blue Jun 24, 2014, 14:33 Quboid
 
Orogogus wrote on Jun 24, 2014, 13:41:
Creston wrote on Jun 24, 2014, 13:34:
jdreyer wrote on Jun 24, 2014, 02:43:
Creston wrote on Jun 23, 2014, 21:43:
Quboid wrote on Jun 23, 2014, 19:23:
but I can't think of another sport that exposes players to this kind of danger so frequently (which certainly is not to say it's the toughest or most dangerous sport).

I give up. Whatever. You're right, every single time a player gets hit in football, it's a massive injury, and these TOUGH-ASS WARRIORS just get up and shrug it off like it's nothing!

You're defending FLOPPING.


Yeah, sorry, American football is a much more violent, dangerous, and injury prone sport than soccer. The contact is built into the sport, unlike soccer. So much so that it has caused an epidemic of brain injuries, in addition to all the other injuries the players suffer. Players report almost never playing a league game pain free. One thing you can say about American football players is that they're tough as nails, and wouldn't be caught dead faking an injury.

We were talking about the other football, jd.
You know, the one where there's FLOPPING. I've yet to see someone flop in American Football.

I think he gets that, and was responding to Quboid's "I can't think of another sport..."

I hope not, because that would mean he's just as incapable of reading as Creston is.

Edit: OK, he was. What part of "not to say it's the toughest or most dangerous sport" makes it sound like I'm saying football/soccer is the toughest or most dangerous sport? When I wrote it, I thought I was saying the exact opposite.

"I just don't think they're comparable"

Neither do I. THAT WAS THE POINT. Other sports have injuries and so on and a great many sports have many more much worse injuries. This is why I went out of my way to be clear on this and stated "this kind of danger"

This comment was edited on Jun 24, 2014, 14:40.
 
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68. Re: Out of the Blue Jun 24, 2014, 14:31 jdreyer
 
Creston wrote on Jun 24, 2014, 13:34:

We were talking about the other football, jd.
You know, the one where there's FLOPPING. I've yet to see someone flop in American Football.

Exactly, Q was claiming about soccer: "I can't think of another sport that exposes players to this kind of danger so frequently." I just don't think they're comparable. There is contact in soccer, but not the kind that there is in football, not the regularity, and I've never ever seen a player "flop."

Now basketball on the other hand...

Oh, yeah, I responded to you, but it was in support of your comment, not against it.
 
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67. Re: Out of the Blue Jun 24, 2014, 14:04 Mr. Tact
 
Creston wrote on Jun 24, 2014, 13:34:
I've yet to see someone flop in American Football.
It happens, when teams need to stop the clock near the end of a game. Although under 2 minutes causes a runoff now. But I distinctly remember a fantastic example were two players who were waiting for the huddle, simultaneously realized they needed to stop the clock and fell to the ground as if suddenly stuck.

Found it on youtube.
 
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66. Re: Out of the Blue Jun 24, 2014, 13:41 Orogogus
 
Creston wrote on Jun 24, 2014, 13:34:
jdreyer wrote on Jun 24, 2014, 02:43:
Creston wrote on Jun 23, 2014, 21:43:
Quboid wrote on Jun 23, 2014, 19:23:
but I can't think of another sport that exposes players to this kind of danger so frequently (which certainly is not to say it's the toughest or most dangerous sport).

I give up. Whatever. You're right, every single time a player gets hit in football, it's a massive injury, and these TOUGH-ASS WARRIORS just get up and shrug it off like it's nothing!

You're defending FLOPPING.


Yeah, sorry, American football is a much more violent, dangerous, and injury prone sport than soccer. The contact is built into the sport, unlike soccer. So much so that it has caused an epidemic of brain injuries, in addition to all the other injuries the players suffer. Players report almost never playing a league game pain free. One thing you can say about American football players is that they're tough as nails, and wouldn't be caught dead faking an injury.

We were talking about the other football, jd.
You know, the one where there's FLOPPING. I've yet to see someone flop in American Football.

I think he gets that, and was responding to Quboid's "I can't think of another sport..."
 
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65. Re: Out of the Blue Jun 24, 2014, 13:34 Creston
 
jdreyer wrote on Jun 24, 2014, 02:43:
Creston wrote on Jun 23, 2014, 21:43:
Quboid wrote on Jun 23, 2014, 19:23:
but I can't think of another sport that exposes players to this kind of danger so frequently (which certainly is not to say it's the toughest or most dangerous sport).

I give up. Whatever. You're right, every single time a player gets hit in football, it's a massive injury, and these TOUGH-ASS WARRIORS just get up and shrug it off like it's nothing!

You're defending FLOPPING.


Yeah, sorry, American football is a much more violent, dangerous, and injury prone sport than soccer. The contact is built into the sport, unlike soccer. So much so that it has caused an epidemic of brain injuries, in addition to all the other injuries the players suffer. Players report almost never playing a league game pain free. One thing you can say about American football players is that they're tough as nails, and wouldn't be caught dead faking an injury.

We were talking about the other football, jd.
You know, the one where there's FLOPPING. I've yet to see someone flop in American Football.
 
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64. Re: Out of the Blue Jun 24, 2014, 13:02 descender
 
There is a difference between "faking it" completely and trying to get a call by rolling around like a baby. The latter happens ALL the time. I would wager that well over 75% of the time a player goes to the ground in soccer, they are embellishing it to get a call. They may actually be a tiny, tiny bit hurt, but they act like they just got shot by a pile of baseball bats. Every time there is a slightest bit of contact, odds are one of the 2 players are going to the ground. Better yet when the OTHER player also goes to the ground to try to make it look like "oh I got hurt too, please don't blow the whistle".

In no other sport is simply "stepping on another players foot" made to look so painful and catastrophic. My favorite part is when they don't even know which body part to grab that they are pretending they hurt.

What do you think that spray is that they bring out, magic? Oh look guys, they put some cold spray and i'm totally fine now! I suppose that's better than the "magic sponge" which was a real thing in soccer. Spray spray spray and they get up and go run around for another hour like nothing happened.

If you don't think this goes on, you simply don't pay attention or have buried your head in the sand.

Sure, SOME injuries are legitimate, and it's usually pretty obvious which ones thanks to HD replays. It's completely embarrassing for the sport to have their players trying to game the ref for favorable calls all the time.

It's such an obvious problem for the sport that they had to change the rules and start giving out cards for flopping. I only wish it was enforced more often, because 3 or 4 of those cards could be given out every single game. This needs to happen before the culture of the sport will change Until then, "drawing a foul" is definitely a skill in this sport.
 
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63. Re: Out of the Blue Jun 24, 2014, 07:57 Mr. Tact
 
In all the coverage I watched and read I never saw anyone suggest that turning off the transponder could have been a troubleshooting step. Although it is true any electronic device can fail or short circuit (hence why the pilots have access to the breakers).

Yes, it is premature to put blame on anyone. But I think you make a similar mistake by suggesting it was just an accidental depressurization. The facts we do know just don't fit that.

A more likely scenario would be an attempted hijacking gone bad. From what I've seen about both the work habits of this particular crew, and a lower sense of danger/security on international flights (compared to US domestic) it's possible someone not on the crew got into the flight cabin.

Whether the crew was or wasn't involved in the cause -- the facts point to an attempt to either steal/crash/hijack the plane. Now, was the end result of all the activity a depressurization that eventually led to the auto-pilot being on and headed south after everyone was unconscious? Yes, that is possible.
 
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62. Re: Out of the Blue Jun 24, 2014, 07:24 Quboid
 
Redmask wrote on Jun 23, 2014, 23:40:
Quboid wrote on Jun 23, 2014, 19:23:
I must watch over a hundred hours a year, and I only missed today's earlier matches because I was at football training.

Good, you must know what people are talking about then. In the world cup alone I've seen so many incidents I don't know how anyone isn't embarrassed for the sport.

Just remember that most of the time, the reason a player looks hurt is because he is hurt and the reason he may get up and run around is precisely because he's manning up. Most of the time.

I don't agree with those conclusions at all and I think you're confusing a limp with dives and flopping, often at very questionable contact. It needs to be discouraged or made moot through rule changes or harsh penalties. I also don't think it will encourage players to hide genuine injuries or something but since they're already 'manning up' according to you then it should have no real negative impact.

Just as a ball park figure, when a player needs medical staff on the pitch, how often do you think he's faking it? It sounds like you think it's > 50% of the time! My guess would be < 5%; for most players 0% of the time.

I don't think your rule changes would work. How do you penalise someone when no one else knows if they've done anything wrong?
 
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61. Re: Out of the Blue Jun 24, 2014, 05:40 InBlack
 
Beamer wrote on Jun 23, 2014, 23:30:
harlock wrote on Jun 23, 2014, 23:13:
Beamer wrote on Jun 23, 2014, 21:35:
harlock wrote on Jun 23, 2014, 21:18:
"muslim" isnt a race, genius

Nice cop out, Bill Maher.
Regardless, most muslims belong to one race. It's de facto racism.

how is that a cop out? do you even know what that means?

and all muslims are one race? so whos racist again? methinks the lady doth protest too much...

I didn't say "all."
And it is a cop out. Rather than address the fact that he made a gross generalization, you're nitpicking. That's a cop out.

Speaking of looking things up, you need to look up what "de facto racism is." Hint: the Tea Party uses it all the time. Screw it, I'm done with this conversation and don't want more derailing back and forth so I'll just tell you - de facto racism is when someone says something not based on exactly and claims it makes them not racist because, even though the statement covers almost exclusively one race, there are tiny percentages of other races covered as well.

You cant accuse someone of generalization and then generalize in the very next post. Thats called hypocrisy. He was definitely generalizing, and he was being a dumb asshole but he wasnt being racist. You were when you assumed that nearly all muslims are one race. There are Albanians, Kurds, Turks, Khazakis, Afghanis, Arabs, Persians, Pasthus, etc. etc. etc. who would like to have a word with you.
 
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60. Re: Out of the Blue Jun 24, 2014, 02:43 jdreyer
 
Creston wrote on Jun 23, 2014, 21:43:
Quboid wrote on Jun 23, 2014, 19:23:
but I can't think of another sport that exposes players to this kind of danger so frequently (which certainly is not to say it's the toughest or most dangerous sport).

I give up. Whatever. You're right, every single time a player gets hit in football, it's a massive injury, and these TOUGH-ASS WARRIORS just get up and shrug it off like it's nothing!

You're defending FLOPPING.


Yeah, sorry, American football is a much more violent, dangerous, and injury prone sport than soccer. The contact is built into the sport, unlike soccer. So much so that it has caused an epidemic of brain injuries, in addition to all the other injuries the players suffer. Players report almost never playing a league game pain free. One thing you can say about American football players is that they're tough as nails, and wouldn't be caught dead faking an injury.
 
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59. Re: Out of the Blue Jun 24, 2014, 02:25 jdreyer
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Jun 23, 2014, 19:12:
The Payne Stewart flight strikes me as purely accidental, and as far as I know, no one has suggested otherwise. While there probably was a depressurization on the Malaysian flight, the direct cause will never be known. The loss of the transponder and multiple turns without any communication makes the second situation significantly different from the first.

I agree with the information released so far, we are nowhere close to being able to know who was responsible. It's likely we'll never know. But I think a very large majority would agree the Malaysian incident was not simply an accident as the Payne Stewart flight likely was.

While the Payne Stewart case was more simple, and we have more info on it (F-16s shadowed it for hours, making a visual ID of frosted windows), the outcome was the same: The plane flew in a straight line on autopilot until it ran out of fuel and crashed. Yes, the transponders switched off. The pilots could have done that while trying to diagnose the problem with the aircraft. Or they could have been knocked out by a fire or series of shorts (yes I know they went down at different times, but that doesn't point to nefarious intentions necessarily). Yes, the plane changed altitude, but that's explainable by something similar that happened on Helios Airways Flight 522. On that flight, after depressurization knocked out the pilot and copilot, and flight attendant with flight training using bottled oxygen tried to gain control of the aircraft.

Given that this has a lot of the hallmarks of a depressurization at altitude accident (something which is a common cause of airplane crashes), these stories about blaming the pilot because he was a flight sim fan (surprise!) and didn't have any social events planned are just stupid clickbait and speculation. They may as well come right out and say, "A pilot with an Arabic name trained on flight sims JUST LIKE THE 911 HIJACKERS!!!11" It's ridiculous.
 
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58. Re: Out of the Blue Jun 24, 2014, 00:45 Sepharo
 
Mad Max RW wrote on Jun 23, 2014, 23:41:
Oh please. Beamer, you are the one obvious racist on this website with your never ending bitchfest about "straight white males". Mostly everyone here sees through your little act. Pretending to be a champion for gay rights didn't work. Pretending to be a feminist didn't work. Pretending to care about Native Americans and Muslims or whatever else will not elevate you to a messiah for the downtrodden. Lighten the fuck up.

Putting your self-righteous nonsense back on ignore where you belong.

Put it all out there man, lol.
Burn it down!

Then you tell him to lighten up.
Both of you are crazy, chill.
 
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57. Re: Out of the Blue Jun 24, 2014, 00:42 Sepharo
 
Beamer wrote on Jun 23, 2014, 21:35:
harlock wrote on Jun 23, 2014, 21:18:
"muslim" isnt a race, genius

Nice cop out, Bill Maher.
Regardless, most muslims belong to one race. It's de facto racism.

South East Asian?

harlock wasn't really trying to cop out of anything but yeah, it's semantics.

"Race" is nonsense anyway outside of discussions of racism.
As (leftist/liberal/reality-is-biased) Wikipedia defines it:
"Race is a classification system used to categorize humans into large and distinct populations or groups by anatomical, cultural, ethnic, genetic, geographical, historical, linguistic, religious, and/or social affiliation."
 
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56. Re: Out of the Blue Jun 24, 2014, 00:27 Beamer
 
Mad Max RW wrote on Jun 23, 2014, 23:41:
Oh please. Beamer, you are the one obvious racist on this website with your never ending bitchfest about "straight white males". Mostly everyone here sees through your little act. Pretending to be a champion for gay rights didn't work. Pretending to be a feminist didn't work. Pretending to care about Native Americans and Muslims or whatever else will not elevate you to a messiah for the downtrodden. Lighten the fuck up.

Putting your self-righteous nonsense back on ignore where you belong.

Ah, in Mad Max's head, you can't have empathy for different people, you're "pretending." And going a day without mentioning something means you "gave up."

I'm so sick of "social justice warriors" like him that won't shut up about how everyone else needs to shut up.
 
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