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Phil Fish Baits YouTube; Becomes Twitter Quitter

Fez and not Fez II designer Phil Fish trolled YouTube gameplay video creators on Twitter today before deleting the tweets and his entire account in the aftermath of his comments. GameInformer.com shows the comments as they originally stood, one reading "if you generate money from putting my content on your channel, you owe me money. simple as that," and the other saying: "add [sic] revenue should be shared with developers. this should be built into youtube. anything else is basically piracy." This Is Phil Fish (NSFW) is a new video that coincidentally just came out a couple of days ago using Mr. Fish as a case study in Internet celebrity. If you are interested, there is a transcript on this page.

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35. Re: Phil Fish Baits YouTube; Becomes Twitter Quitter Jun 20, 2014, 14:18 Fantaz
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Jun 20, 2014, 10:06:
Wait -- I thought he quit twitter months ago? Isn't this story essentially a repeat? (Prior to the previous story I'm thinking of, whatever it was, -- I'd never heard of him)

i think he reactivated his twitter account a few days after that. a news story saying this showed up somewhere as a result when i was searching for phil fish in google the other day.
 
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34. Re: Phil Fish Baits YouTube; Becomes Twitter Quitter Jun 20, 2014, 10:06 Mr. Tact
 
Wait -- I thought he quit twitter months ago? Isn't this story essentially a repeat? (Prior to the previous story I'm thinking of, whatever it was, -- I'd never heard of him)  
Truth is brutal. Prepare for pain.
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33. Why not do it himself Jun 19, 2014, 13:24 ChangWizzle
 
If he wants $$ from Let's Play videos, he should do the video himself and release it the same day the title launches. A lets' play from the dev/designer themselves would clearly generate more hits that third parties.  
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32. Re: Phil Fish Baits YouTube; Becomes Twitter Quitter Jun 19, 2014, 12:34 eRe4s3r
 
But if that "douche" (your words..) is not getting paid, there would be no let's plays. 0, nada. I mean, I think you do not even realize how much work a commented let's play actually entails.

And you are acting as if every game is a cutscene heavy bulwark of non-interactivity, to be fair I don't watch that many "entire" let's plays, and seeing the drop off in watch numbers for videos beyond the first I am probably not the only one... but point remains, if you muddy the water with monetization you end up killing let's play, reviews and any (professional produced) user produced content in one fell swoop. And a lot of that is advertising for developers.

You probably have no idea how much an indy dev is thankful when MAJOR youtube let's players feature their game. When TB features a game favorable for example, that is always clear spike in Steam sale numbers.... and we are talking a major spike.

And as I said, what if the platform is not where I game then even me watching a full let's play of a story heavy game isn't gonna do anything to the sales for a dev. That dev already gimped emself by not putting the game out on PC anyway.

Also just generally, I am 100% against copyright, just FYI. I accept that there need to be SOME rules regarding buying and selling stuff, but what you bring up here (Give developers share or all revenue from youtube content a 3rd party produced) is something I oppose 100%. Copyright induced monetization is what kills youtube. Just look at the retarded crap they pulled with indy musicians just recently. That's what happens when you let copyright go too far.

We are just gonna have to agree to disagree on this one. To me let's plays are a service, not by developers or publishers but by users, and they deserve to be rewarded.

This comment was edited on Jun 19, 2014, 12:40.
 
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31. Re: Phil Fish Baits YouTube; Becomes Twitter Quitter Jun 19, 2014, 12:18 Beamer
 
I see the argument that YouTube videos, some of which are seriously hours long and show an entire game, can stop some customers from buying. Especially for small indie games where you can kind of see everything in one of these. A lot of you are making arguments that playing a game and watching someone play the game aren't substitutes. I'll say that's not entirely right. When I had roommates, I'd watch them play games frequently. Sometimes I'd play as well. Othertimes I felt like I'd seen all there really was to see and didn't end up playing it at all. Take a game like Hotline Miami. I could probably watch someone play that for 20 minutes then decide there wasn't much to gain from actually playing it.

The flip side of this, though, is that for every person that ends up feeling this way there are probably a few dozen that were on the fence and decide they need to buy the game.
 
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30. Re: Phil Fish Baits YouTube; Becomes Twitter Quitter Jun 19, 2014, 12:02 HoSpanky
 
It's not so much that the developer isn't getting paid, it's that someone ELSE is, for the developer's work. If the income from those videos was split down the middle, there wouldn't be a discussion. As the article mentions, PewDiePie makes 4 million a year, playing other people's games. That's not insignificant.

Also, again, in single-player games that are interactive rollercoasters, posting a video showing the story beginning to end IS giving away the game. A cutscene-heavy game isn't remotely different during those cutscenes as when someone is playing it themselves. We aren't discussing whether or not a game like that is worth playing, that's irrelevant and subjective. It's whether an entire storyline should be posted online, with monetary benefit going SOLEY to the poster, none to the creators.

You watch LPs to decide if you want to play a game, that's fine. Do you watch the entire thing? See how it ends? See all the plot twists ahead of time, and STILL purchase the game? If you only watched, say, 20 minutes and decided the gameplay does or doesn't interest you, that's not an issue, nor is it what I'm saying here. Once you've seen a game all the way through, you've seen the funny lines, the amazing cutscenes and vistas, you know the story entirely. Do you watch entire story playthroughs and still buy the game?

If you say no, you wouldn't have bought it anyway, yet you watched someone else play the game, entirely, then you're lying. You wanted to play it and couldn't afford it? Fine, why does some youtuber get paid and not the creator? You didn't watch that YouTube guy the entire time, you watched someone else's creation.

Yes a lot of this is saying the same thing in a slightly different way, but you seem blind to what I'm saying here. It's not the experience they're worried about, it's seeing everything a game has to offer, for free, while some douche who created NOTHING is the one getting paid.
 
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29. Re: Phil Fish Baits YouTube; Becomes Twitter Quitter Jun 19, 2014, 11:40 eRe4s3r
 
HoSpanky wrote on Jun 19, 2014, 11:30:
eRe4s3r wrote on Jun 19, 2014, 10:37:
HoSpanky wrote on Jun 19, 2014, 09:34:
I dot think Phil is entirely wrong here. People aren't just posting small bits of the game, they do multi-hour "let's play!" videos that basically show you the entire game. I'd be pissed if someone was getting PAID to display the game I'd spent years of my life making, in it's entirety. Movie companies shut down full feeds of their movies, and rightfully so. Aside from not being the active player, what's the difference between watching someone play thru an entire game you didnt buy, and watching a pirated movie? You still see all the content, free. And someone ELSE gets PAID to do this. I'd be cranky as well.
You can say piracy is unstoppable, and you'd be right. But YouTube is a legitimate company that is allowing essentially pirated videos to make people money. A game reviewer video isn't a problem here, those guys don't show you every piece of a game's story/puzzles/art. Is Phil an overreacting douche? Oh yeah. Jesus he's a spaz.

But I don't think he's completely wrong.

Your argument went completely into insanity land when you equaled watching someone playing games to watching copies of movies...

Games are entertainment content that you buy to play. And a developer that thinks someone recording himself playing his game is piracy is a nutjob. Unless that game was made to be watched instead of played, in which case that thing shouldn't even be called a game to begin with.

Art, Sound and Music are all secondary. Games are defined by GAMEPLAY something you can record but never replicate by watching.

Heck, the experience of watching a let's play and playing a game is completely different.

So, then you agree that it'd be OK to post a video of someone reading an entire book aloud on YouTube, and tolerated by the author? Because by your logic, it's a different experience, despite containing all of the media involved in the product. So the author should be cool with it, right?

Ehm, no. Books are passive entertainment. You read it, or somehow reads it, no difference to the experience of the content. Games are completely, absolutely, 100% different if you play them, vs if you watch someone playing them. What's different? The lack of agency or the fact that you have said agency. It's the difference between reading a book and playing a game.

When someone reads a book that changes absolutely nothing to the written words. But when someone plays a game that can make for fundamental different gameplay experience depending on the person. Not to mention that let's play's with Commentary are often additionally more entertaining than gameplay as-is.

So no, developers do NOT deserve money for let's plays. Because a let's play, even if it's from a SP game, is not replicating that game experience. And the reason someone would watch an ENTIRE let's play is either for money reasons (So would never ever buy the game) or because the platform he/she games on doesn't have it. In which case the developer is to blame for not catering to the markets that need catering to. Or the viewer wants to see the gameplay of the game beforehand a purchase. (Something reviews often FAIL at)

In all cases, if developers could actually monetize let's play's.. you know what happens? Nobody makes them anymore. And a let's play is pretty much the only way a developer gets my money nowadays.
 
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28. Re: Phil Fish Baits YouTube; Becomes Twitter Quitter Jun 19, 2014, 11:30 HoSpanky
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Jun 19, 2014, 10:37:
HoSpanky wrote on Jun 19, 2014, 09:34:
I dot think Phil is entirely wrong here. People aren't just posting small bits of the game, they do multi-hour "let's play!" videos that basically show you the entire game. I'd be pissed if someone was getting PAID to display the game I'd spent years of my life making, in it's entirety. Movie companies shut down full feeds of their movies, and rightfully so. Aside from not being the active player, what's the difference between watching someone play thru an entire game you didnt buy, and watching a pirated movie? You still see all the content, free. And someone ELSE gets PAID to do this. I'd be cranky as well.
You can say piracy is unstoppable, and you'd be right. But YouTube is a legitimate company that is allowing essentially pirated videos to make people money. A game reviewer video isn't a problem here, those guys don't show you every piece of a game's story/puzzles/art. Is Phil an overreacting douche? Oh yeah. Jesus he's a spaz.

But I don't think he's completely wrong.

Your argument went completely into insanity land when you equaled watching someone playing games to watching copies of movies...

Games are entertainment content that you buy to play. And a developer that thinks someone recording himself playing his game is piracy is a nutjob. Unless that game was made to be watched instead of played, in which case that thing shouldn't even be called a game to begin with.

Art, Sound and Music are all secondary. Games are defined by GAMEPLAY something you can record but never replicate by watching.

Heck, the experience of watching a let's play and playing a game is completely different.

So, then you agree that it'd be OK to post a video of someone reading an entire book aloud on YouTube, and tolerated by the author? Because by your logic, it's a different experience, despite containing all of the media involved in the product. So the author should be cool with it, right?
Games are an interactive medium, yes. Are you saying that all of the artwork, story and cutscenes should be free, and only if you want to actually have a controller in your hands should you pay for any of those? Do you think that someone who watches an entire play through of bioshock infinite would purchase the game afterwards? The creator gets NOTHING, while some asshat with a video capture device actually gets PAID, by a legitimate, massive company.
Videos of CoD rounds aren't the issue here. There's no story there, and shot-of-a-lifetime videos are likely pleasing to content creators; it makes people want to play the game. Watching an entire single player game played out isn't going to make someone buy the game. It gives them a way to experience the story without paying.

Now, if Phil is trying to say ANY video, even a small, short one, of the game is a problem, he's a moron. Those DO help sell games. Full-length videos of a single player story are as likely to sell copies as posting full length movies.
 
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27. Re: Phil Fish Baits YouTube; Becomes Twitter Quitter Jun 19, 2014, 10:55 Verno
 
Phil Fish needs attention everyone, please give it to him.  
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Playing: Divinity Original Sin, Infamous Second Son, Madden
Watching: Spartan, Possible Worlds, The Changeling
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26. Re: Phil Fish Baits YouTube; Becomes Twitter Quitter Jun 19, 2014, 10:37 eRe4s3r
 
HoSpanky wrote on Jun 19, 2014, 09:34:
I dot think Phil is entirely wrong here. People aren't just posting small bits of the game, they do multi-hour "let's play!" videos that basically show you the entire game. I'd be pissed if someone was getting PAID to display the game I'd spent years of my life making, in it's entirety. Movie companies shut down full feeds of their movies, and rightfully so. Aside from not being the active player, what's the difference between watching someone play thru an entire game you didnt buy, and watching a pirated movie? You still see all the content, free. And someone ELSE gets PAID to do this. I'd be cranky as well.
You can say piracy is unstoppable, and you'd be right. But YouTube is a legitimate company that is allowing essentially pirated videos to make people money. A game reviewer video isn't a problem here, those guys don't show you every piece of a game's story/puzzles/art. Is Phil an overreacting douche? Oh yeah. Jesus he's a spaz.

But I don't think he's completely wrong.

Your argument went completely into insanity land when you equaled watching someone playing games to watching copies of movies...

Games are entertainment content that you buy to play. And a developer that thinks someone recording himself playing his game is piracy is a nutjob. Unless that game was made to be watched instead of played, in which case that thing shouldn't even be called a game to begin with.

Art, Sound and Music are all secondary. Games are defined by GAMEPLAY something you can record but never replicate by watching.

Heck, the experience of watching a let's play and playing a game is completely different.
 
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25. Re: Phil Fish Baits YouTube; Becomes Twitter Quitter Jun 19, 2014, 09:34 HoSpanky
 
I dot think Phil is entirely wrong here. People aren't just posting small bits of the game, they do multi-hour "let's play!" videos that basically show you the entire game. I'd be pissed if someone was getting PAID to display the game I'd spent years of my life making, in it's entirety. Movie companies shut down full feeds of their movies, and rightfully so. Aside from not being the active player, what's the difference between watching someone play thru an entire game you didnt buy, and watching a pirated movie? You still see all the content, free. And someone ELSE gets PAID to do this. I'd be cranky as well.
You can say piracy is unstoppable, and you'd be right. But YouTube is a legitimate company that is allowing essentially pirated videos to make people money. A game reviewer video isn't a problem here, those guys don't show you every piece of a game's story/puzzles/art. Is Phil an overreacting douche? Oh yeah. Jesus he's a spaz.

But I don't think he's completely wrong.
 
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24. Re: Phil Fish Baits YouTube; Becomes Twitter Quitter Jun 19, 2014, 08:28 Burrito of Peace
 
bigspender wrote on Jun 18, 2014, 20:12:
Who would win in a fight, Derek Smart or Phil Fish?

The Coke machine.
 
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23. Re: Phil Fish Baits YouTube; Becomes Twitter Quitter Jun 19, 2014, 07:17 El Pit
 
Say what you want about Phil Fish, but he totally understood the way our economy works: monetize everything you can, take what you can and give only what you absolutely have to.  
Consoles? I owned two: a Pong clone and an Atari 2600. And that's it.
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22. Re: Phil Fish Baits YouTube; Becomes Twitter Quitter Jun 19, 2014, 07:06 vacs
 
Just for the record: I love Phil Fish!  
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21. Re: Phil Fish Baits YouTube; Becomes Twitter Quitter Jun 19, 2014, 06:15 Numinar
 
I dunno, he has a point. Nintendo is doing the same thing but with lawyers and professionalism and whatnot.

As for being a dick on the internet, well, the internet is full of them. Still prefer this to the corp-speak personality-less jerks that normally speak publicly about this stuff. I feel the same way about Notch, a lucky guy who's opinion gets listened to because he got lucky once and should be as free to make himself heard as much as ***RapeSister420***

Keep fighting the good fight Phil! Can you put your energy and unhinged mind to work on Fez 2? Loved the first one, absolute classic.

 
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20. Re: RE: Follow up Jun 19, 2014, 04:24 ASeven
 
That This is Phil Fish video is a pretty good one and hits the points quite well.

Fish is still an asshole though.
 
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19. Re: RE: Follow up Jun 19, 2014, 00:56 UConnBBall
 
I asked the guy on YouTube that made the video on Internet Celebrity to make one for Derek Smart  
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18. Re: Phil Fish Baits YouTube; Becomes Twitter Quitter Jun 19, 2014, 00:54 loomy
 
never heard of him. you're welcome  
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17. RE: Phil Fish Baits YouTube; Becomes Twitter Quitter Jun 19, 2014, 00:33 Rigs
 
Mashiki Amiketo wrote on Jun 18, 2014, 20:15:
bigspender wrote on Jun 18, 2014, 20:12:
Who would win in a fight, Derek Smart or Phil Fish?
Neither. The ego's of each would become so large they'd crush each other and endanger the whole world.

Ugh...about had enough of DS for one year...that's all I talked about yesterday...who the fuck is Phil Fish and why should I care?


=-Rigs-=
 
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'I know what you think you are, what you want us to believe! But I don't buy it! For three years now you've been pulling everyone's strings, getting us to do all the work, and you haven't done a damn thing except stand there and look cryptic.'
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16. Re: Phil Fish Baits YouTube; Becomes Twitter Quitter Jun 19, 2014, 00:25 Bundy
 
Cutter wrote on Jun 18, 2014, 19:53:
Mashiki Amiketo wrote on Jun 18, 2014, 19:50:
Classic case of Quebecker entitlement syndrome.

I don't know if anyone outside of Canada would get that. And realize that it's not a joke.

I'm Canadian, and I get it. In fact, I had the exact same thought when I read this story. What a douche.
 
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