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Out of the Blue

Today is that fast food workers strike people have been talking about. I guess I've been supporting this for years, as I don't do the fast food thing. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure I managed to eat so many Big Macs and Whoppers as a younger man that I will have to live to around 150 before my abstinence will actually impact these company's bottom lines.

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48. Re: Out of the Blue May 18, 2014, 19:48 Ant
 
Life sucks.  
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47. Re: Out of the Blue May 15, 2014, 20:33 xXBatmanXx
 
lots of stuff going on in here today!  
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In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. / Few men have virtue enough to withstand the highest bidder.
Playing: New dad
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46. Re: Out of the Blue May 15, 2014, 20:29 xXBatmanXx
 
Cutter wrote on May 15, 2014, 18:05:
Beamer wrote on May 15, 2014, 16:34:
And a terrible return on investment, unless you transfer to a "real" university. Kids graduating from top 100 schools are finding themselves working in Starbucks, kids graduating from Community College are almost guaranteed to end up there, regardless of GPA.

If you have the natural intelligence, skill, and drive it doesn't matter where you graduate from. Yes, it'll be easier initially for some rich kid walking in from an Ivy League school, but sooner or later the cream rises to the top.

I agree partially....it has been my experience WHO you know has been better than WHAT you know. Now, that being said, I got lucky and landed a couple of jobs because of the University I went to in MN has a very strong Minnesota cred. Once I was there, I thrived. After that, any upward movement was who you know, not merit based.

/I also believe this depends on where you live. I grew up in MN and landed a job at one of the top MN companies, and I come from poverty. But, out of college, I had a great job, unemployed, owned my own business, went corporate, then went back to school. So.....I dunno. Everything I have is cause I worked my ass off.
 
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In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. / Few men have virtue enough to withstand the highest bidder.
Playing: New dad
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45. Re: Out of the Blue May 15, 2014, 20:12 BobBob
 
You can stand there, smell the garbage, or play in the garbage. Or you can toss the garbage, even better, recycle it. Your choice.

Thinking about bad things doesn't make them go away.

This comment was edited on May 15, 2014, 20:36.
 
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44. Re: Out of the Blue May 15, 2014, 20:08 Beamer
 
BobBob wrote on May 15, 2014, 20:03:
You are welcome to wallow in your self entitled misery. I use self entitled in the sense that you come across as a person that believes he should have been that person who had this or that background instead of being grateful for what he has now (food, shelter, and an Internet connection) and going for it. I can only hope my post will help someone who is considering taking the leap.

It's sad that you read this as personal misery rather than empathy for those around me that are graduating with a raw deal.
Not everyone thinks solely about themselves, although honestly, I am at least partially motivated selfishly. If those around me are buried in debt and not earning enough, they are not spending enough, and the economy suffers greatly.
 
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43. Re: Out of the Blue May 15, 2014, 20:03 BobBob
 
You are welcome to wallow in your self entitled misery. I use self entitled in the sense that you come across as a person that believes he should have been that person who had this or that background instead of being grateful for what he has now (food, shelter, and an Internet connection) and going for it. I can only hope my post will help someone who is considering taking the leap.  
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42. Re: Out of the Blue May 15, 2014, 19:51 Beamer
 
BobBob wrote on May 15, 2014, 19:17:
Beamer wrote on May 15, 2014, 18:58:
More whining ...

The next decade or century will be known as the age of the entrepreneur. The lack of company and corporate jobs will force people to do this. I'm not referring to entrepreneur millionaires. A person going door to door washing vehicles is an entrepreneur. The kid selling lemonade is an entrepreneur. The word too often implies getting rich quick. It used to be called 'running a small business' or 'contracting'. Every mom and pop shop, food vendor, painter, plumber, freelance consultant, house cleaner, gardener (who works on contract) is an entrepreneur. Do you recall the merchants and artisans in history class? They were entrepreneurs. Blue's News is entrepreneurial.

Labor intensive skills will slowly be replaced by robotics and AI. If you want to succeed, you will need to learn to service, develop or provide on a level that requires business acumen. Everyone can jump on this ladder. How high you start is simply a matter of motivation. Those from a higher education often have more motivation due to encouragement from mentors and peers. You can still do this on your own. Just be prepared to start at the bottom, forcing yourself to be somewhat obsessive to self motivate.

Start your own business. It doesn't need make millions in the first year. The business can be something as drastic as a new invention or as simple as selling small items or providing a niche service. Search for a need or an idea. Think about your everyday consumables and activities. Ponder what can be improved, serviced, or provided. The business idea is right in front of you. You don't need a higher education to start it nor do you need it to be successful. If you build it or sell it, they will come. Think positive. If you feel the passion, the success is sure to follow. The most important piece of advice I can provide is to surround yourself with people smarter than you. Make sure they are people that you can respect. Make good use of their talents -- be it employees, contractors, friends or simply mentors for advice. Don't pass too much judgement on what they do, just learn why they are happy doing it.

But, again, being an entrepreneur is much easier when you come from a good school. Being an entrepreneur typically takes start up capital, and that capital is much easier to get your hands on when you have, you know, not a community college degree.

And you're changing goalposts. You're now discussing "getting by." I originally said that the return on investment sucks with community colleges and that hard work isn't enough.

Honestly, I don't get why most people on this board would claim otherwise. Is this board not entirely millionaires because everyone here is dumb and lazy?
 
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http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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41. Re: Out of the Blue May 15, 2014, 19:17 BobBob
 
Beamer wrote on May 15, 2014, 18:58:
More whining ...

The next decade or century will be known as the age of the entrepreneur. The lack of company and corporate jobs will force people to do this. I'm not referring to entrepreneur millionaires. A person going door to door washing vehicles is an entrepreneur. The kid selling lemonade is an entrepreneur. The word too often implies getting rich quick. It used to be called 'running a small business' or 'contracting'. Every mom and pop shop, food vendor, painter, plumber, freelance consultant, house cleaner, gardener (who works on contract) is an entrepreneur. Do you recall the merchants and artisans in history class? They were entrepreneurs. Blue's News is entrepreneurial.

Labor intensive skills will slowly be replaced by robotics and AI. If you want to succeed, you will need to learn to service, develop or provide on a level that requires business acumen. Everyone can jump on this ladder. How high you start is simply a matter of motivation. Those from a higher education often have more motivation due to encouragement from mentors and peers. You can still do this on your own. Just be prepared to start at the bottom, forcing yourself to be somewhat obsessive to self motivate.

Start your own business. It doesn't need make millions in the first year. The business can be something as drastic as a new invention or as simple as selling small items or providing a niche service. Search for a need or an idea. Think about your everyday consumables and activities. Ponder what can be improved, serviced, or provided. The business idea is right in front of you. You don't need a higher education to start it nor do you need it to be successful. If you build it or sell it, they will come. Think positive. If you feel the passion, the success is sure to follow. The most important piece of advice I can provide is to surround yourself with people smarter than you. Make sure they are people that you can respect. Make good use of their talents -- be it employees, contractors, friends or simply mentors for advice. Don't pass too much judgement on what they do, just learn why they are happy doing it.

This comment was edited on May 15, 2014, 19:48.
 
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40. Re: Out of the Blue May 15, 2014, 18:58 Beamer
 
BobBob wrote on May 15, 2014, 18:25:
Beamer wrote on May 15, 2014, 18:17:
Jealous rant of other people's success with further ranting excuses of why not me.

Cutter is right.

Nope. And never once did I say "why not me?" I've been fortunate enough to attend the schools with the right names. They opened doors that would not have opened had I not. I look at the schools those I work with went to. I look at the schools the new hires came from. In general, the younger generation went to much, much better schools than the older ones, as "college" is no longer enough, as it may have been 20 years ago. Names matter more now, because competition is stronger now, and for a kid coming right out of college, the name is literally the only defining thing on that kid's resume. The kid getting the good job out of college will have a much, much better success rate than the kid who spends a few years as a barista.

Can you succeed going to a shit school? Yes, but the odds are stacked very much against you, and mere "hard work" isn't enough. Hard work never is. Only people that are going to lose think that "hard work" is enough. Right now there are millions of Americans doing manual labor for minimum wage, or close to it, working significantly harder than nearly anyone posting in this thread.
 
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39. Re: Out of the Blue May 15, 2014, 18:29 jdreyer
 
Beamer wrote on May 15, 2014, 16:34:
Mr. Tact wrote on May 15, 2014, 16:31:
$131.50 per credit hour at the local two year Community College, assuming a 15 hour semester, 1 year = $3,945 for tuition alone. A lot cheaper than the 4 year state university, but not "no tuition at all".

And a terrible return on investment, unless you transfer to a "real" university. Kids graduating from top 100 schools are finding themselves working in Starbucks, kids graduating from Community College are almost guaranteed to end up there, regardless of GPA.

Meh, I've done 10+ hires in the past 5 years. I don't care what university / college you went to, just did you go. After that, the interview (your personality) and how you do on our internal assessment is what will get you the job. I think I even hired a couple people who only had associate degrees. I usually do hire people with previous experience in my industry however, but it doesn't have to be much. These jobs pay $60-70K.

Also, my company is now privately held but until a couple of years ago was a division in a Fortune 500 company.
 
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38. Re: Out of the Blue May 15, 2014, 18:25 BobBob
 
Beamer wrote on May 15, 2014, 18:17:
Jealous rant of other people's success with further ranting excuses of why not me.

Cutter is right.
 
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37. Re: Out of the Blue May 15, 2014, 18:17 Beamer
 
Cutter wrote on May 15, 2014, 18:05:
Beamer wrote on May 15, 2014, 16:34:
And a terrible return on investment, unless you transfer to a "real" university. Kids graduating from top 100 schools are finding themselves working in Starbucks, kids graduating from Community College are almost guaranteed to end up there, regardless of GPA.

If you have the natural intelligence, skill, and drive it doesn't matter where you graduate from. Yes, it'll be easier initially for some rich kid walking in from an Ivy League school, but sooner or later the cream rises to the top.

That's the most libertarian thing I've ever heard you say.
It's also entirely untrue.

The kid going to the Ivy League school will have all the investment banks, consulting firms, and Fortune 500 companies wooing him. And, if he decides to start his own business, that degree will be enough reason for VCs to let him schedule a meeting to do a pitch. He's probably also been groomed for exactly how to handle these kinds of meetings.

The kid going to the Community College will have his resume immediately thrown in the trash by any Fortune 500 company, and won't even have a chance to get that far with a bank or consulting firm. If he starts his own company, he's going to have to beg family members for money and max out his credit cards because no VC will listen to him until he has something to show them, making him less likely to even bother taking that enormous personal risk. He's had little to no job hunting/interviewing/networking training.

Yes, Cutter, people can succeed in spite of where they graduated from, but it's very often luck more than intelligence, skill and drive, because it probably depends on starting your own business and I'd say luck is a giant part of whether that succeeds. That degree you get is often used as a screening device - if it's from the right place it's assumed you're qualified for at least some things. If it's from the wrong place you're assumed to be some kind of lesser being.

A kid coming out of an Ivy, regardless of how dumb he may be, is probably going to be able to snag some kind of Wall Street offer for $90K plus bonus if he desires. A kid coming out of a Community College is going to be a barista or a bartender, regardless of GPA.
 
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36. Re: Out of the Blue May 15, 2014, 18:05 Cutter
 
Beamer wrote on May 15, 2014, 16:34:
And a terrible return on investment, unless you transfer to a "real" university. Kids graduating from top 100 schools are finding themselves working in Starbucks, kids graduating from Community College are almost guaranteed to end up there, regardless of GPA.

If you have the natural intelligence, skill, and drive it doesn't matter where you graduate from. Yes, it'll be easier initially for some rich kid walking in from an Ivy League school, but sooner or later the cream rises to the top.
 
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"The South will boogie again!" - Disco Stu
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35. Re: Out of the Blue May 15, 2014, 16:34 Beamer
 
Mr. Tact wrote on May 15, 2014, 16:31:
$131.50 per credit hour at the local two year Community College, assuming a 15 hour semester, 1 year = $3,945 for tuition alone. A lot cheaper than the 4 year state university, but not "no tuition at all".

And a terrible return on investment, unless you transfer to a "real" university. Kids graduating from top 100 schools are finding themselves working in Starbucks, kids graduating from Community College are almost guaranteed to end up there, regardless of GPA.
 
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http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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34. Re: Out of the Blue May 15, 2014, 16:31 Mr. Tact
 
$131.50 per credit hour at the local two year Community College, assuming a 15 hour semester, 1 year = $3,945 for tuition alone. A lot cheaper than the 4 year state university, but not "no tuition at all".  
Truth is brutal. Prepare for pain.
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33. Re: Out of the Blue May 15, 2014, 16:30 Hyatus
 
I wonder how many people will read the title of that Matt Harding speech without watching it.  
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32. Re: Out of the Blue May 15, 2014, 16:20 Mr. Tact
 
Yeah, even in state isn't cheap. My local state University:

http://admissions.illinois.edu/cost/tuition.html

Residents

Tuition and fees -- 15,602 - 20,606*
Books and supplies -- $1,200
Room and board (10 meals/week) -- $10,848
Other expenses -- $2,500
TOTAL -- 30,150 - 35,154*
 
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31. Re: Out of the Blue May 15, 2014, 15:49 mag
 
Creston wrote on May 15, 2014, 11:50:
You're also ignoring that if you go to your State's university, you basically pay little to no tuition. If you go to your local community college, you pay no tuition at all. It's only when you want to go out of state, or go to a private university that, yeah, you have to pay huge amounts of money for your education. Whether that's justified or not, and whether those titles are worth the money being charged for them is not a discussion I want to go into.

In short, what you're saying is simply wrong. End of story.

Whoa, whooaaaaaa, this is so wrong. SO fucking wrong. There might be *some* state where this is almost true, but the state universities everywhere I've lived have been ~$10k/yr for tuition alone. Community colleges are about 1/2 to 2/3 of that.
 
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30. Re: Out of the Blue May 15, 2014, 15:43 Cutter
 
Creston wrote on May 15, 2014, 15:12:
Look, if people want to drive electric cars, go right ahead. But don't come with the whole "It's so good for the environment" angle, because it's just not true.

Nothing manufactured in a factory will ever be "good" for the environment. However it's entirely fair to say they're much better for the environment. At least after they're made they don't spew toxic emissions and they don't require petroleum - which are the real problems of the combustion engine. He has a point with how technology has moved forward on all fronts except this.

Fucking automakers and dealers trying to ban them on top of it? What kind of happy horseshit is that? If anything the gubment should be giving Tesla huge subsidies and placing massive tariffs on the other automakers to force them into doing the same. At the very least making sure every combustion automobile is at least a diesel for Christ's sake.
 
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29. Re: Out of the Blue May 15, 2014, 15:12 Creston
 
BitWraith wrote on May 15, 2014, 14:51:
I do agree with you on the cost factor. However, I don't know if you live in an urban area, but there is no way in hell that manufacturing those batteries has as large an impact on the environment as all gasoline cars.

Per car, a Prius's batteries have as much of an ecological impact as driving a Suburban a crazy amount of miles. The mine in Canada where they get the nickel from is an ecological disaster area, then it gets put on a big boat to Europe where they process it, then on a boat to China where they turn it into some kind of foam, and then on a boat to Japan where they make them into batteries.

But because that's all indirect impact, people don't compare it. (and then we ignore the impact of the usually coal-fired power plant that needs to generate the electricity)

Look, if people want to drive electric cars, go right ahead. But don't come with the whole "It's so good for the environment" angle, because it's just not true.

 
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