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MS Planning DirectX 12

Microsoft has launched a new DirectX blog and DirectX 12 Twitter account indicating another version is in the works, with the motto on the Twitter account stating "#DirectX12 is coming... follow us for the latest news." This contradicts other indications they might be phasing out the API collection. This goes along with a GDC 2014 Session titled "DirectX: Evolving Microsoft's Graphics Platform (Presented by Microsoft)." Here's word on DirectX 12 from the session summary:

For nearly 20 years, DirectX has been the platform used by game developers to create the fastest, most visually impressive games on the planet.

However, you asked us to do more. You asked us to bring you even closer to the metal and to do so on an unparalleled assortment of hardware. You also asked us for better tools so that you can squeeze every last drop of performance out of your PC, tablet, phone and console.

Come learn our plans to deliver.

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54. Re: MS Planning DirectX 12 Mar 6, 2014, 14:38 Bundy
 
SpectralMeat wrote on Mar 6, 2014, 14:30:
Bundy wrote on Mar 6, 2014, 14:13:
AMD makes Mantle, despite it being specific to their hardware, love rains down from the heavens. MS adds it into DirectX. DIE!!!! DIE IN A FIRE!!!!
Because Mantle benefits the consumers not just the ones that are looking to get new video cards but those that have older video cards.

Microsoft makes DX12 you can go out and buy new video card and a new OS in order to see some "benefits" that devs may or may not take advantage of.
Microsoft isn't known for their consumer friendliness lately espcially not in the PC gaming space.

Except you have to have an AMD card, a new AMD card. And I know they made claims about NV being able to write support in their drivers. But we all know how NV plays this game. They will never do it. They will create a CUDA version of Mantle and hope the fragmentation kills both before they'd let AMD have this win.
 
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53. Re: MS Planning DirectX 12 Mar 6, 2014, 14:30 SpectralMeat
 
Bundy wrote on Mar 6, 2014, 14:13:
AMD makes Mantle, despite it being specific to their hardware, love rains down from the heavens. MS adds it into DirectX. DIE!!!! DIE IN A FIRE!!!!
Because Mantle benefits the consumers not just the ones that are looking to get new video cards but those that have older video cards.

Microsoft makes DX12 you can go out and buy new video card and a new OS in order to see some "benefits" that devs may or may not take advantage of.
Microsoft isn't known for their consumer friendliness lately espcially not in the PC gaming space.
 
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52. Re: MS Planning DirectX 12 Mar 6, 2014, 14:19 Verno
 
Bundy wrote on Mar 6, 2014, 14:13:
Enh, there seems to be a lot of MS hate no matter what they do.

That's because they will find some way to make a good announcement into a bad with SKU locking or something silly like that. Microsoft is remarkably adapt at doing this. Microsoft has long neglected the PC platform with regards to gaming and this is primarily a PC gaming website, it shouldn't be a mystery. As for other forums *shrug*, I think they get a fair shake.
 
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51. Re: MS Planning DirectX 12 Mar 6, 2014, 14:14 descender
 
Depth of Field effects (blurry focus), Ambient Occlusion (screen space ambient lighting) and Tesselation (I have no idea). It only really mattered if you got stuck with a video card that came out right before DX11.

I don't understand why they didn't launch their new console with their new version of DirectX. Talk about missing the boat, there's almost no chance that DX12 will see widespread adoption this generation, unless they can update the consoles now... but most DX changes require physical changes in video hardware.
 
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50. Re: MS Planning DirectX 12 Mar 6, 2014, 14:13 Bundy
 
Enh, there seems to be a lot of MS hate no matter what they do. So far, this is what we know. There's going to be DirectX 12. But these comments are littered with ravings. And blues is one of the more sane msg boards. If I went to any of the other big gaming blogs they'd be filled with vitriol. AMD makes Mantle, despite it being specific to their hardware, love rains down from the heavens. MS adds it into DirectX. DIE!!!! DIE IN A FIRE!!!!  
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49. Re: MS Planning DirectX 12 Mar 6, 2014, 14:06 dj LiTh
 
Silicon Avatar wrote on Mar 6, 2014, 13:42:
I couldn't tell much difference between a DX10 game and a DX11 game and after a while I just stopped paying attention to DirectX in general. It's a background thing and my games are probably going to look the same anyway.

I'm still glad DirectX exists but it's hard for me to get excited about it.


Thats because there really wasnt much of a difference between the two, although tessellation comes to mind (dont think dx10 had that? could be wrong), anyways hopefully this is a bigger bump more akin from dx9 to dx10/11 was. As much as all the MS hate, this is still good news for gaming.
 
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48. Re: MS Planning DirectX 12 Mar 6, 2014, 13:42 Silicon Avatar
 
I couldn't tell much difference between a DX10 game and a DX11 game and after a while I just stopped paying attention to DirectX in general. It's a background thing and my games are probably going to look the same anyway.

I'm still glad DirectX exists but it's hard for me to get excited about it.

 
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47. Re: MS Planning DirectX 12 Mar 6, 2014, 13:17 avianflu
 
The noticeable advantages to gamers of 11 over 10 were not great. I hope 12 offers a real reason for devs to use it and gamers to like it....  
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46. Re: MS Planning DirectX 12 Mar 6, 2014, 12:44 Despoiler
 
DX12 can't be a superset of DX11 like 11 was of 10. They need to rebuild DX from the ground up in order to make it a modern API that solves its inherent problems (little to no CPU scaling, API overhead, and driver overhead). Make no mistake, MS is going to talk about the future and not what actually exists. It's going to sound an awful lot like what Mantle delivers now. It will be available on the next version of Windows. These GDC talks are MS getting beat to the punch, trying to get back into the fight, all before the ref counts to 10. It's typical Microsoft.  
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45. Re: MS Planning DirectX 12 Mar 6, 2014, 12:31 Bundy
 
Creston wrote on Mar 6, 2014, 12:28:
Bundy wrote on Mar 6, 2014, 12:14:
I doubt any dev would exclude dx11, but what we'll probably see is the multiple render options. like how we already see today. You'll be able to pick dx11, dx12, mantle, etc. Most PC games do this.

Of course, but that in no way helps the adoption rate of DX12.

I wasn't claiming that it would. Only that this is likely how developers would implement. MS will probably lock it into their latest OS, developers will and won't use it accordingly. And the world keeps spinning.
 
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44. Re: MS Planning DirectX 12 Mar 6, 2014, 12:28 Creston
 
Bundy wrote on Mar 6, 2014, 12:14:
I doubt any dev would exclude dx11, but what we'll probably see is the multiple render options. like how we already see today. You'll be able to pick dx11, dx12, mantle, etc. Most PC games do this.

Of course, but that in no way helps the adoption rate of DX12.
 
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43. Re: MS Planning DirectX 12 Mar 6, 2014, 12:14 Bundy
 
Creston wrote on Mar 6, 2014, 12:04:
Simon Says wrote on Mar 6, 2014, 11:49:
Stop being stupid microsoft, well all know the latest directx would be a snap to implement on Win 7.

The funny thing is that MS is bleating to all developers "Come watch how awesome our new DirectX is!!!" and then they'll undoubtedly arbitrarily limit it to 12% (?) of the entire gaming market. (can't quite remember what the Win 8 adoption rate on Steam was, too lazy to look it up.)

Like any dev is going to make a game that automatically excludes 88% of their customers.

But hey, at least Microsoft has a Senior Vice President of Advanced Strategy. Because that right there is some Smart Thinking(tm)!

I doubt any dev would exclude dx11, but what we'll probably see is the multiple render options. like how we already see today. You'll be able to pick dx11, dx12, mantle, etc. Most PC games do this.
 
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42. Re: MS Planning DirectX 12 Mar 6, 2014, 12:04 Creston
 
Simon Says wrote on Mar 6, 2014, 11:49:
Stop being stupid microsoft, well all know the latest directx would be a snap to implement on Win 7.

The funny thing is that MS is bleating to all developers "Come watch how awesome our new DirectX is!!!" and then they'll undoubtedly arbitrarily limit it to 12% (?) of the entire gaming market. (can't quite remember what the Win 8 adoption rate on Steam was, too lazy to look it up.)

Like any dev is going to make a game that automatically excludes 88% of their customers.

But hey, at least Microsoft has a Senior Vice President of Advanced Strategy. Because that right there is some Smart Thinking(tm)!
 
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41. Re: MS Planning DirectX 12 Mar 6, 2014, 12:04 Beamer
 
HorrorScope wrote on Mar 6, 2014, 11:05:
Didn't think this had to be said...

MS makes a lot of money with back-end and business products through contracts. We are talking from a consumer gamers perspective, which is just a very small piece. As a company they are doing great overall, for what we care about, they are not. That is why there has been talks for a long time to split up parts of the company. So in one way we look silly talking about how badly they are doing, but when it comes to what we care about... they are doing quite bad.

Though true, there are a lot of people here completely unable to separate something that happens where they really care about from something as a whole. The amount of people with perceived wounds because Microsoft didn't pay enough attention to PC gaming, with endless backseat CEOing about how the company should devote itself solely to a PC gaming company, with the one guy that is convinced everything not based in the USA is bad but repeatedly discussing how he wants Microsoft to die in a fire and Sony to take over the world, is shocking.

Otherwise rational people on this board completely set aside their rational thinking when it comes to some topics, MSFT being chief among them.

That said, there are absolute shifts out there that I think Microsoft is struggling to stay ahead of and I can't say I see them as a smart long-term stock hold. Long term meaning 15 years.
 
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40. Re: MS Planning DirectX 12 Mar 6, 2014, 12:02 MajorD
 

HorrorScope wrote on Mar 6, 2014, 11:05:
Didn't think this had to be said...

MS makes a lot of money with back-end and business products through contracts. We are talking from a consumer gamers perspective, which is just a very small piece. As a company they are doing great overall, for what we care about, they are not. That is why there has been talks for a long time to split up parts of the company. So in one way we look silly talking about how badly they are doing, but when it comes to what we care about... they are doing quite bad.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Pretty much spot on. Well said!

From a day-to-day business stand point and casual usage (personal eMail, surfing internet, docs, pics, filing, etc) I love Microsoft, and have no issues or the bandwagon-hate for Microsoft. But from a PC Gamer standpoint Microsoft dropped the ball when they shifted their focus to the console market and the PC (from a gaming stand point) was kicked aside like a runt of the litter! This is definitely where Microsoft pisses me off! 'Games for Windows' was an absolute joke, but if they would have embraced, advanced it, and nurtured it like they should have, instead of letting it die the way that they did, PC Gaming would be in a better state than it is today.

It wasn't too long ago I posted something on WTF MS was doing with DirectX and if they'd be releasing a new version anytime soon. The announcement of this new version is good news, but my concerns are the same as what other people posted; hopefully it won't be a Windows 8 and/or Windows 9 exclusive. Sigh....

 
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39. Re: MS Planning DirectX 12 Mar 6, 2014, 11:59 Mr. Tact
 
I ran XP for a long time ignoring DX10, I imagine I can do the same on Win7 and DX12.  
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38. Re: MS Planning DirectX 12 Mar 6, 2014, 11:56 theyarecomingforyou
 
SpectralMeat wrote on Mar 6, 2014, 11:22:
I doubt we will need new hardware to run DX12.
If the graphics hardware in the current gaming consoles don't support DX12 you bet there won't be too many dev studio that will take "advantage" of the technology because they want their games to be on the console.
Yeah, just like developers didn't take advantage of DX11 because the X360 and PS3 didn't support it... oh wait, that's nonsense. DirectX exists to simplify the development process and sell hardware, otherwise nVidia and AMD would simply opt for their own APIs - in fact the stagnation in DirectX development has already resulted in AMD introducing its own API, Mantle.

There's only so much that can be done via software improvements and Microsoft needs something substantial to retain relevance, otherwise that empowers competitors like Valve with its Steam Machines. The next-gen consoles are fixed platforms and won't be able to benefit from most of the improvements anyway due to their lack of GPU power.

PS - Don't console developers work directly with the hardware instead of using an abstraction layer like DirectX?
 
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37. Re: MS Planning DirectX 12 Mar 6, 2014, 11:49 Simon Says
 
Smells like Mantle... Good thing.

IF Windows 9 super metro version exclusive = FUCK YOU MS tho.

Stop being stupid microsoft, well all know the latest directx would be a snap to implement on Win 7.

You've been warned.
 
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36. Re: MS Planning DirectX 12 Mar 6, 2014, 11:48 Bundy
 
jacobvandy wrote on Mar 6, 2014, 11:27:
BitWraith wrote on Mar 6, 2014, 10:54:
The interesting part of this announcement is how much further behind it's going to put the new console generation graphically.

Are you sure about that? I guess we'd need to know more about the GPUs inside the consoles, but for example, Mantle supports AMD chips as old as the HD 7000 series, which existed in 2011, with a simple driver update. That's because of their Nintendo GameCube architecture that is shared across all of their products since then. Provided this isn't an overnight development, as I doubt it is, I wouldn't be surprised if the Xbone and PS4 can receive DX12 support via some extensive firmware update. And if they can't, there's nothing stopping them from releasing a refresh in a couple of years with new GPUs. It wouldn't be the first time a console had some segregation in hardware requirements between games.

The xbone already runs a closer to metal version of dx11, I dont think there's a need for dx12. The ps4 uses gnm, not DirectX, or mantle. There's no need for a ctm API there either because like the xbone, gnm already is.
 
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35. Re: MS Planning DirectX 12 Mar 6, 2014, 11:48 Qbex .
 
Yeah right, talk is cheep, MS is desperate for relevance - loosing on all fronts even staple pc boxes and pc gaming treated like shit for years are now endangered by MacOs, SteamOS and ChromeOS. And as usual MS will chuck billlllionz of greens at wrong department - PR instead of R&D. I believe it when I see real world performance gains and return of Power User UI focus in next Windows, otherwise I'm staying on W7 and StreamOs ready partition on my SSD  
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